What about the other students and teacher that where in the classroom?
Surely everytime they here the song it brings back the memories of when it happened-i wonder if they like the song?
nice thread, very interesting topic..
its a difficult one to say how they reacted to the song, but my guess is they were not to happy about more exposure..ummmm :?:
this is an interesting thread.
To be quite honest, I've never thought about it before. Never looked at the song from this point of view.
Anyway, I don't have children or know anyone personally who has comitted suicide and so I can't even begin to imagine the pain, sorrow, grief, confusion, anger, frustation that someone must feel. I'm just writing from what I think, not experience.
Someone mentioned that it was irresponsible to use Jeremy's real name, which I disagree with. Yes, it was very soon after the tragedy that the song was played on the radio and on tv all the time, but Eddie wouldn't have known that was going to happen when he wrote it. I think Eddie himself said (referring to the editing of the video to block out Jeremy putting the gun in his mouth) that whether or not they edited it, it doesn't change the fact that things like this happen and did happen. So whether or not he used Jeremy's name doesn't change the fact that it happened. Also, if you heard it and you had known Jeremy, then maybe it would have helped you to deal with it.
That leads me to the next thing:
How his parents must've felt.
Like I said before, maybe they took comfort in knowing that their son's death was not...how do i say it...wasted? In vain? It inspired the creation of a song that many many many people took and take comfort in. So many people in the world commit suicide which is sad and awful, but their son wasn't just another number or a statistic. The song brought publicity to what had happened to him and maybe this helped the parents, to know that people cared and were moved/touched by it. I know that it seems that they are being criticised in the song (the parents) but I don't think it was an attack on their parenting skills and hopefully they didn't feel that way.
Anyway, that's all I've got for now
but interesting thread
wow. that was some pretty interesting and intense info on the Jeremy situation. I have never had a chance to see that site until now so thanks for finding it.
To bad the gods are harsh on us and didt give young jeremy more time to dream ,listen and find pearl jam like like I did or I would been right next tim him. Life keeps getting harder I dont think anyone with a pure heart will survive.
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And the young, they can loose hope cause they cant see deyond today.....The wisdom that the old cant give away..hey
Constantrecoil , sometimes life dont leave you alone....
Hope it doesnt bother you that I answer this a whole year later, but I thought of the same thing! First Kurt wrote "Polly" and heard that some girl later was raped because of that song, she was humming it or the raper/rapists was playing it in the background, dont know wich is true, but anyway that SHOULD make you think about the responibility you have as a lyricist, if you know lot of people will hear, you should think about how it affects people, and after knowing Polly caused what it did, Im really surprised that he would make a song like "Rape me", but he was so pumped with heroin at the time so maybe his mind wasnt clear, and i think PJ should have been more careful, I mean it would be a really big chance that some kids start thinkin " If i put a gun in my mouth at school i will be the kind off person Eddie Vedder cares about"! So really young Eddie was a douche, Im so glad, he seem to have grown up!
Another question that needs to be posed here is how many kids may have committed suicide BECAUSE OF Jeremy? He is portrayed as almost heroic in the music video. While I'm sure it may have helped teens on the brink of suicide, it very well could have pushed others over the edge.
Another song that I've always felt was a huge double-edged sword was "Rape Me" by Nirvana. Just imagine being a rape victim. You've put it behind you and you're getting on with your life. Sometimes you think about it but you try not to. Then one day you're driving in your car listening to the local alternative rock station and all of a sudden there's this dude screaming "rape me" at the top his lungs blasting out of the speakers. That could be fucking traumatizing for a girl.
Great thread!!! Jeremy was the first Pearl Jam song that I ever heard...I actually saw the video on MTV and fell in love with the song and the band. I was 14 and in high school when the video came out and I always thought the video was so cool. I never really thought about the real Jeremy.
I've never understood anybody committing suicide, if the kid had taken the gun and killed his parents or whoever was the source of his pain, i would have understood that. I've had those thoughts. In the darkest moments of my life, i never considered it. Maybe i'm just selfish.
I think suicide is one of the most frustrating and bewildering acts someone can do. How people respond to it is different from person to person, even from day to day. My ex killed himself when my son was 6months old. Due to all the shit that had gone on prior to him doing it, I was sooooo angry with him because in my eyes he opted to take the easy way out. My way of dealing with it, was to basically carry on as though nothing had happened. I never attended the funeral, and have never been to visit the site of his burial. I still will only drive by that way if there is absolutely no other way to go. Pretty cold in some peoples eyes, but thata was my way. that was over 4 years ago.
For a parent to lose a child, whether they been a teen or adult, must be absolutely shattering. There would be an element of self-blame, I know i even blamed his mother for not doing more to prevent it.
I'm not how I would feel being in the shoes of Jeremys parents. There would def be a feeling of privacy invasion, I mean it's such an isolating thing to occur, but then perhaps also that the song would be something that others in his situation could relate to and maybe realise that there is another way. Suicide doesn't just kill the person committing it, it also kills a part of the other people in thier lives.
Dunno if it makes sense to anyone, but that;s my perspective.
Beautiful post.
Thanks for sharing.
+1
+2. Well said.
I had a friend commit suicide after her 17th birthday, due in part to a fight with her father. Sure, she was mad at him at the time, but in reality, he was a great man who merely wanted to see his little girl succeed. Her 5 year anniversary is in a week and I catch myself thinking about her and her family every single day. Losing a child has to be incredibly traumatic; it never goes away. Reach out to those who ask for help. Great topic, thank you for posting.
Bumping my own thread, now that I have a child and have even stronger thoughts on this, to see what you folks think
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Marvellous topic. Great way of thinking out of the box on this one. I respect this thread! Interesting to think though that when a songwriter gets the inspiration to write a song they can only write from their point of view. He read about Jeremy in a newspaper right? How reliable is that paper? How did Eddie know all the facts for sure? For all we know those parents were amazing parents but the kid was bound for disaster no matter what they did. There's a lot to argue there, but it is interesting that the parents (as far as I know) were never given the chance to defend themselves (if they even cared to do so) before the whole world was conditioned to think they were terrible. The show goes on though. Not trying to minimize the importance of a child killing themselves but the relevance today is nearly infinitesimal other than that it spawned a rocking song. Sounds harsh, but I think that's reality. I know he wrote the song partly so Jeremy's story would go on, and it has, but I still don't know how relevant it is now that it's 2016. And it's strange to type that because gun violence is still such a big issue in the US.
I've never understood anybody committing suicide, if the kid had taken the gun and killed his parents or whoever was the source of his pain, i would have understood that. I've had those thoughts. In the darkest moments of my life, i never considered it. Maybe i'm just selfish.
Perhaps its good you don't understand the level of suffering - so terrible - that ending that suffering through suicide is the only answer.
I've never understood anybody committing suicide, if the kid had taken the gun and killed his parents or whoever was the source of his pain, i would have understood that. I've had those thoughts. In the darkest moments of my life, i never considered it. Maybe i'm just selfish.
Ah, I see you're banned so not sure if you'll see my comment.
I've never understood anybody committing suicide, if the kid had taken the gun and killed his parents or whoever was the source of his pain, i would have understood that. I've had those thoughts. In the darkest moments of my life, i never considered it. Maybe i'm just selfish.
Perhaps its good you don't understand the level of suffering - so terrible - that ending that suffering through suicide is the only answer.
Perfect and compassionate response, thank you.
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Jeremy came out when I was in middle school. I can't say that at age 13 I truly comprehended the song. Sure, I got that it was a kid that committed suicide, but at that time, it was so beyond anything I had dealt with and was completely over my head. I liked the video- thought it was strange how Eddie stared straight up, but hey, mtv played that nonstop so I watched it nonstop.
Fast forward 22 years... I'm now a parent of 2 toddlers and have been an elementary school teacher for 12 years. I hate the song. I hate the video. Not as a parent. But as a teacher. Take this from a completely different standpoint. I don't think you can understand how difficult that must have been for Jeremy's teacher... Obviously the actual act, but then the reminder of it through the song.
Teachers deal with sooo much. And that boy's has to have been so guilt stricken - what did I miss? How could I have prevented this? What did I do wrong?
You might thing- Steff, your an elementary school teacher, this wouldn't effect 9 year olds. And my God, do I wish that was true. In the past 2 years alone I've had to call health services for two different suicidal 4th graders who described to me amazingly thought out plans on how to harm themselves.
13 year old me loves the song.. 35 year old teacher me, wishes it would go away.
I always interpreted the song as a PSA about suicide and being pushed to that point where you feel you have nothing to live for...It took brass balls to make that video and write that song...I had many of thoughts about taking my life during the time that video came out and I saw the impact of the story Pearl Jam told in Jeremy and it made me think even more if that's the legacy I wanted to leave behind, but instead im here and still "Alive"
Ed has always said it was loosely based on the actual incident. there's no way he could have known when he wrote if daddy gave attention or not.
I think it is important to remember that there is a lot more awareness and just general knowledge surrounding depression and suicide than there was back in the early 90's. So sure back then it would have probably been pretty common to assume that if a kid killed himself that he probably had shitty parents or was picked on. But I am sure that today many more people realize there is probably a lot more to any teen suicide story than that.
This is probably the one song that's given me more discomfort than any other. I have read that the song made things really hard on the family; calls/letters from fans, fans visiting the grave, etc. And I am sure most fans are just treating it like Pearl Jam history (i.e. no sensitivity to the family).
I'd bet they wish that song had never been made. To me it seems exploitative and a bit tone-deaf to the grief of the family. It's an important topic for young disenfranchised people, and Ed's always showing interest in such things but I think being more general would have gone a long way. While it's easy for us to think critically about the artistic aspect of "daddy didn't give attention to the fact that mommy didn't care" people don't always think critically and some may very well interpret Ed placing blame on the parents. In a sense it's an important song, but I wish they'd found a way to paint it as a general song...maybe it even was, but because the instance that inspired it was public, there was no going back. Ed was probably naive enough to believe it (and the band) would never become big enough for it to matter.
Rival is allegedly about Columbine, but the more subtle tone of the lyrics, combined with PJ's move away from the limelight renders that song barely a minor blip. Maybe they learned from Jeremy.
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Ed has always said it was loosely based on the actual incident. there's no way he could have known when he wrote if daddy gave attention or not.
I think it is important to remember that there is a lot more awareness and just general knowledge surrounding depression and suicide than there was back in the early 90's. So sure back then it would have probably been pretty common to assume that if a kid killed himself that he probably had shitty parents or was picked on. But I am sure that today many more people realize there is probably a lot more to any teen suicide story than that.
my comment wasn't a criticism on Ed's writing; it was a criticism on those dissecting it.
Any subject is free game when it comes to art IMO.
I'm not sure this jibes well with the current level of sensitivity in today's culture. I think social media has played a part in creating an increased 'response' to things like this. How would today's culture react to a song like Jeremy if it was released today?
Any subject is free game when it comes to art IMO.
I'm not sure this jibes well with the current level of sensitivity in today's culture. I think social media has played a part in creating an increased 'response' to things like this. How would today's culture react to a song like Jeremy if it was released today?
fucking hysteria.
"insensitive!!!" they'll all yell! "cashing in on tragedy!!!" they will scream!
I remember reading an article from a past PJ member (I want to say one of the Dave's) about how he was sitting at a bar/show/something and a woman came up and just slapped him. Left him totally dumbfounded. Turns out it was a relative of "the" Jeremy (agian, don't remember if it was a mom/sister/aunt/etc.) but she was saying that there is nothing worse than trying to deal with the tragic suicide of a family member and then having constantly shoved in your face everywhere you go.
Mind you, I'm paraphrasing. I looked for a good 15 minutes for the article before posting this but I can't find it (Found it. See below). If anyone knows what I'm talking about, please share it. My memory may be a bit off but I do believe that was the just of the little interview snippet.
When I was 18, I lost a great friend to suicide. At the time of his funeral, we young kids that knew EVERYTHING sneered at his parents, were downright a-holes and blamed them for Tony's death. I guess at 18, we didn't know how the f* else to deal with such agonizing grief.
Fifteen years later I think of Tony still probably almost every day of my life. Now though, I think of his family, his brother, his parents and how much I can't even begin to wrap my head around how much they must have hurt, still hurt and how much of the blame they probably heaped on themselves without all of us young jerks adding to it.
I've thought a long time about sending Tony's family a letter, not so much as an apology, but more of a hey, he was a great friend I miss him and I think of him and you often.
But, I have NO idea how they processed the suicide of their son. This letter would be my Jeremy of sorts... Cathartic for me in dealing with the pain, but without the piece of info about how they are healing, it could be a sting that they just can't deal with still all these years later or maybe a welcome relief?
We can never read what is truly on someone else's heart I guess..
send the letter ... imo i think to know their child still lives on in memories is a gift to them ... let them know how often their family and child are thought of by you ... let them know your love for their child ... let them know you care. i think the words would be welcomed ... I attended the funeral of a friend ... the priest presiding said something i will never forget ... "the price of LOVE is SORROW" ... so in my words don't let the fear of sorrow keep you from loving ...
Any subject is free game when it comes to art IMO.
I'm not sure this jibes well with the current level of sensitivity in today's culture. I think social media has played a part in creating an increased 'response' to things like this. How would today's culture react to a song like Jeremy if it was released today?
I think how it jibes with the current level of sensitivity is irrelevant. In fact, I think it gives artists even more reason to tackle any issue they want. I don't care if it offends. A lot of great art is great specifically because it offends or is provocative. As for how audiences would react today... who knows. I don't really care TBH.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
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Comments
Surely everytime they here the song it brings back the memories of when it happened-i wonder if they like the song?
its a difficult one to say how they reacted to the song, but my guess is they were not to happy about more exposure..ummmm :?:
To be quite honest, I've never thought about it before. Never looked at the song from this point of view.
Anyway, I don't have children or know anyone personally who has comitted suicide and so I can't even begin to imagine the pain, sorrow, grief, confusion, anger, frustation that someone must feel. I'm just writing from what I think, not experience.
Someone mentioned that it was irresponsible to use Jeremy's real name, which I disagree with. Yes, it was very soon after the tragedy that the song was played on the radio and on tv all the time, but Eddie wouldn't have known that was going to happen when he wrote it. I think Eddie himself said (referring to the editing of the video to block out Jeremy putting the gun in his mouth) that whether or not they edited it, it doesn't change the fact that things like this happen and did happen. So whether or not he used Jeremy's name doesn't change the fact that it happened. Also, if you heard it and you had known Jeremy, then maybe it would have helped you to deal with it.
That leads me to the next thing:
How his parents must've felt.
Like I said before, maybe they took comfort in knowing that their son's death was not...how do i say it...wasted? In vain? It inspired the creation of a song that many many many people took and take comfort in. So many people in the world commit suicide which is sad and awful, but their son wasn't just another number or a statistic. The song brought publicity to what had happened to him and maybe this helped the parents, to know that people cared and were moved/touched by it. I know that it seems that they are being criticised in the song (the parents) but I don't think it was an attack on their parenting skills and hopefully they didn't feel that way.
Anyway, that's all I've got for now
but interesting thread
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Pp Pp
And the young, they can loose hope cause they cant see deyond today.....The wisdom that the old cant give away..hey
Constantrecoil , sometimes life dont leave you alone....
I had a friend commit suicide after her 17th birthday, due in part to a fight with her father. Sure, she was mad at him at the time, but in reality, he was a great man who merely wanted to see his little girl succeed. Her 5 year anniversary is in a week and I catch myself thinking about her and her family every single day. Losing a child has to be incredibly traumatic; it never goes away. Reach out to those who ask for help. Great topic, thank you for posting.
Interesting to think though that when a songwriter gets the inspiration to write a song they can only write from their point of view. He read about Jeremy in a newspaper right? How reliable is that paper? How did Eddie know all the facts for sure? For all we know those parents were amazing parents but the kid was bound for disaster no matter what they did. There's a lot to argue there, but it is interesting that the parents (as far as I know) were never given the chance to defend themselves (if they even cared to do so) before the whole world was conditioned to think they were terrible.
The show goes on though. Not trying to minimize the importance of a child killing themselves but the relevance today is nearly infinitesimal other than that it spawned a rocking song. Sounds harsh, but I think that's reality. I know he wrote the song partly so Jeremy's story would go on, and it has, but I still don't know how relevant it is now that it's 2016.
And it's strange to type that because gun violence is still such a big issue in the US.
Glad that I found this topic. It's interesting to think about
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Fast forward 22 years... I'm now a parent of 2 toddlers and have been an elementary school teacher for 12 years. I hate the song. I hate the video. Not as a parent. But as a teacher. Take this from a completely different standpoint. I don't think you can understand how difficult that must have been for Jeremy's teacher... Obviously the actual act, but then the reminder of it through the song.
Teachers deal with sooo much. And that boy's has to have been so guilt stricken - what did I miss? How could I have prevented this? What did I do wrong?
You might thing- Steff, your an elementary school teacher, this wouldn't effect 9 year olds. And my God, do I wish that was true. In the past 2 years alone I've had to call health services for two different suicidal 4th graders who described to me amazingly thought out plans on how to harm themselves.
13 year old me loves the song.. 35 year old teacher me, wishes it would go away.
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I'd bet they wish that song had never been made. To me it seems exploitative and a bit tone-deaf to the grief of the family. It's an important topic for young disenfranchised people, and Ed's always showing interest in such things but I think being more general would have gone a long way. While it's easy for us to think critically about the artistic aspect of "daddy didn't give attention to the fact that mommy didn't care" people don't always think critically and some may very well interpret Ed placing blame on the parents. In a sense it's an important song, but I wish they'd found a way to paint it as a general song...maybe it even was, but because the instance that inspired it was public, there was no going back. Ed was probably naive enough to believe it (and the band) would never become big enough for it to matter.
Rival is allegedly about Columbine, but the more subtle tone of the lyrics, combined with PJ's move away from the limelight renders that song barely a minor blip. Maybe they learned from Jeremy.
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"insensitive!!!" they'll all yell! "cashing in on tragedy!!!" they will scream!
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Mind you, I'm paraphrasing. I looked for a good 15 minutes for the article before posting this but I can't find it (Found it. See below). If anyone knows what I'm talking about, please share it. My memory may be a bit off but I do believe that was the just of the little interview snippet.
EDIT: http://archive.alternativenation.net/former-pearl-jam-drummer-dave-abbruzzese-was-slapped-by-real-life-jeremys-girlfriend-over-video/
i think to know their child still lives on in memories is a gift to them ... let them know how often their family and child are thought of by you ... let them know your love for their child ... let them know you care. i think the words would be welcomed ...
I attended the funeral of a friend ... the priest presiding said something i will never forget ... "the price of LOVE is SORROW" ... so in my words don't let the fear of sorrow keep you from loving ...
As for how audiences would react today... who knows. I don't really care TBH.