Another question that needs to be posed here is how many kids may have committed suicide BECAUSE OF Jeremy? He is portrayed as almost heroic in the music video. While I'm sure it may have helped teens on the brink of suicide, it very well could have pushed others over the edge
that reminds me of ozzy.
remember?
a kid killed himself and the parents blamed the music. 'get the gun. shoot shoot shoot.'
na uh. ain't buying it.
it's not because of the music.
Ironic. It’s Christmas time and I’ve noticed two threads on here about suicide.
I totally agree that people like Ozzy or Marilyn Manson can't be held responsible in case like that. But I also know that music does have a tremendous deal on impact on people had when interpreted wrong by mentally unstable people, bad things could happen. Take Charlie Manson trying to say that he killed people because he thought Helter Skelter was about the Apocalypse and that The Beatles were four prophets. Well Helter Sketler is an amusement park ride and the Beatles are four musicians. But that's not how he saw it.
But I also know that music does have a tremendous deal on impact on people had when interpreted wrong by mentally unstable people, bad things could happen.
i agree.
but music isn't the only reason.
it shouldn't become the easy scapegoat.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
Another song that I've always felt was a huge double-edged sword was "Rape Me" by Nirvana. Just imagine being a rape victim. You've put it behind you and you're getting on with your life. Sometimes you think about it but you try not to. Then one day you're driving in your car listening to the local alternative rock station and all of a sudden there's this dude screaming "rape me" at the top his lungs blasting out of the speakers. That could be fucking traumatizing for a girl.
I always thought this song was about smoking... :shock:
Well I guess it could be about whatever you want it to be about....just like any song. But I just shudder to think what this song could me to some of the Catch A Predator types out there. Again, I called it a double-edged sword because it's an awesome alternative rock song....but in the same token it's a suicide victim screaming "rape me" over and over.
Another song that I've always felt was a huge double-edged sword was "Rape Me" by Nirvana. Just imagine being a rape victim. You've put it behind you and you're getting on with your life. Sometimes you think about it but you try not to. Then one day you're driving in your car listening to the local alternative rock station and all of a sudden there's this dude screaming "rape me" at the top his lungs blasting out of the speakers. That could be fucking traumatizing for a girl.
It's a man screaming, "Rape Me!" in that song. Could be fucking traumatizing for a boy.
Holy shit. I was just reading an article about Jeremy, and although i knew he was from Texas, what I didn't know was that he lived in the town that I lived in when I was three! If my family hadn't moved to California, its possible that I would be enrolled in that school at this very moment. Wow.
If I remember correctly, Rape Me was about the music industry and how Kurt felt about it.
Yes thank you.
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
When I was 18, I lost a great friend to suicide. At the time of his funeral, we young kids that knew EVERYTHING sneered at his parents, were downright a-holes and blamed them for Tony's death. I guess at 18, we didn't know how the f* else to deal with such agonizing grief.
Fifteen years later I think of Tony still probably almost every day of my life. Now though, I think of his family, his brother, his parents and how much I can't even begin to wrap my head around how much they must have hurt, still hurt and how much of the blame they probably heaped on themselves without all of us young jerks adding to it.
I've thought a long time about sending Tony's family a letter, not so much as an apology, but more of a hey, he was a great friend I miss him and I think of him and you often.
But, I have NO idea how they processed the suicide of their son. This letter would be my Jeremy of sorts... Cathartic for me in dealing with the pain, but without the piece of info about how they are healing, it could be a sting that they just can't deal with still all these years later or maybe a welcome relief?
We can never read what is truly on someone else's heart I guess..
thanks for sharing that with us. i can't imagine what it must be like for you but please know that time does heal wounds.
in a ways its kinda like what chris's(into the wild) parents went through. the guilt that they must have carried around, whether justified or not, must be incredibly saddening for them...always thinking if it was them that caused chris to leave them unannounced, or? that movie was so powerful. just trying to understand/comprehend what chris's parents went through in the process is incredibly haunting to me.
thanks all who posted good thoughts/reads/links in this thread. it has been a real good read and i'm glad the OP made the post...mostly caused im sick of people selling/trading shit here,x20(but thats for another thread)
hope this isnt way off base- but I wonder if the real Jeremy's parents could have pursued any legal action in regards to the song? Like defamation of character?
Further back and forth a wave will break on me, today...
hope this isnt way off base- but I wonder if the real Jeremy's parents could have pursued any legal action in regards to the song? Like defamation of character?
I don't know much about stuff like that but I'd wager a guess that so long as they don't use a last name, they'd be alright. You can't drop regular people's names in songs or television without their permission. But you can mention any public figure...like Barack Obama or Johnny Guitar Watson or whoever.
The school where the suicide happened is about 5 min from my house and I drive by it all the time. I've driven by it on several occassions and actually had Jeremy playing in the car :shock: It's cool and eerie and beautiful all at the same time. I think PJ's song is a tribute that just happened to immortalize the kid. That song also makes me think of Columbine...kind of a bad omen for things that were to come.
“May you live to be 100 and may the last voice you hear be mine.” - Frank Sinatra
this is pretty much off topic but have you all heard brandi carlile's 'that year'? it's a fucking fantastic song about teen suicide and something that actually personally happened to her. it's on her myspace page...
I think suicide is one of the most frustrating and bewildering acts someone can do. How people respond to it is different from person to person, even from day to day. My ex killed himself when my son was 6months old. Due to all the shit that had gone on prior to him doing it, I was sooooo angry with him because in my eyes he opted to take the easy way out. My way of dealing with it, was to basically carry on as though nothing had happened. I never attended the funeral, and have never been to visit the site of his burial. I still will only drive by that way if there is absolutely no other way to go. Pretty cold in some peoples eyes, but thata was my way. that was over 4 years ago.
For a parent to lose a child, whether they been a teen or adult, must be absolutely shattering. There would be an element of self-blame, I know i even blamed his mother for not doing more to prevent it.
I'm not how I would feel being in the shoes of Jeremys parents. There would def be a feeling of privacy invasion, I mean it's such an isolating thing to occur, but then perhaps also that the song would be something that others in his situation could relate to and maybe realise that there is another way. Suicide doesn't just kill the person committing it, it also kills a part of the other people in thier lives.
Dunno if it makes sense to anyone, but that;s my perspective.
Does anyone have a pic (new, up to date) of Trevor Wilson? (boy who played Jeremy in the vid)
-95, Stockholm (MirrorBall Tour)
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this is pretty much off topic but have you all heard brandi carlile's 'that year'? it's a fucking fantastic song about teen suicide and something that actually personally happened to her. it's on her myspace page...
Jeremy was in fact the reason I became a PJ fan. Nothing clicked until this song. There is a good video on youtube with some footage of the high school and the grave site with Jeremy playing of course. It's pretty eerie. I remember being alienated in High School, I also remember wanting to be that way. Like that was my part. I am sure music like this plays a part in some people's psyche's but it's music that needs to be written.
Those were different times, and the music reflects that. You can't stop writing serious music because you are afraid that people will take it the wrong way. I have oftened wondered how jeremy's parents felt, and I guess they deserve credit for not becoming media whores.
It's sad that jeremy felt the need to do what he did, but I understand. Life is hard, and when things aren't right consistently it gets even harder.
The video has that controversial part where he kills himself but it's edited to be safe to make it look like he kills the classroom kids. There was a lot of hysteria over that misinterpretation. kind of like real life, very often we arrest overreact to the afflicted bullied child and enable the bullying and agressive kids.
ironically, when a co-worker and friend killed herself 8 years ago, I sought out Pearl Jam's music as a release and comfort.
I think suicide is one of the most frustrating and bewildering acts someone can do. How people respond to it is different from person to person, even from day to day. My ex killed himself when my son was 6months old. Due to all the shit that had gone on prior to him doing it, I was sooooo angry with him because in my eyes he opted to take the easy way out. My way of dealing with it, was to basically carry on as though nothing had happened. I never attended the funeral, and have never been to visit the site of his burial. I still will only drive by that way if there is absolutely no other way to go. Pretty cold in some peoples eyes, but thata was my way. that was over 4 years ago.
For a parent to lose a child, whether they been a teen or adult, must be absolutely shattering. There would be an element of self-blame, I know i even blamed his mother for not doing more to prevent it.
I'm not how I would feel being in the shoes of Jeremys parents. There would def be a feeling of privacy invasion, I mean it's such an isolating thing to occur, but then perhaps also that the song would be something that others in his situation could relate to and maybe realise that there is another way. Suicide doesn't just kill the person committing it, it also kills a part of the other people in thier lives.
Dunno if it makes sense to anyone, but that;s my perspective.
Beautiful post.
Thanks for sharing.
*~Pearl Jam will be blasted from speakers until morale improves~*
I think suicide is one of the most frustrating and bewildering acts someone can do. How people respond to it is different from person to person, even from day to day. My ex killed himself when my son was 6months old. Due to all the shit that had gone on prior to him doing it, I was sooooo angry with him because in my eyes he opted to take the easy way out. My way of dealing with it, was to basically carry on as though nothing had happened. I never attended the funeral, and have never been to visit the site of his burial. I still will only drive by that way if there is absolutely no other way to go. Pretty cold in some peoples eyes, but thata was my way. that was over 4 years ago.
For a parent to lose a child, whether they been a teen or adult, must be absolutely shattering. There would be an element of self-blame, I know i even blamed his mother for not doing more to prevent it.
I'm not how I would feel being in the shoes of Jeremys parents. There would def be a feeling of privacy invasion, I mean it's such an isolating thing to occur, but then perhaps also that the song would be something that others in his situation could relate to and maybe realise that there is another way. Suicide doesn't just kill the person committing it, it also kills a part of the other people in thier lives.
Dunno if it makes sense to anyone, but that;s my perspective.
Beautiful post.
Thanks for sharing.
+1
"FF, I've heard the droning about the Sawx being the baby dolls. Yeah, I get it, you guys invented baseball and suffered forever. I get it." -JearlPam0925
hope this isnt way off base- but I wonder if the real Jeremy's parents could have pursued any legal action in regards to the song? Like defamation of character?
just remembered this thread of mine from a while back that people seemed to like and find thought provoking...just wondering if anyone had anything else to say about it now...
"I'll tell you what: If all I had was Pearl Jam, and I didn't have another band in the world, I would not be worried. Because in there is the essence of making great music. You don't have to use it all at once, but it's there." - Neil Young
my guess would be the kid didn't realy have parents. I mean, everyone has parents but how much of a parental figure did he have?
you can't blame the parents. Many people have ridiculously fucked-up childhoods and they don't kill themselves.
Remember this topic in 20 years and I guarantee you will change your answer.
Hope that doesn't come across as condescending.. wasn't meant to be. Recently, a 7th grader (12 yr old) at my daughter's school hung herself. Her father died of bone cancer 5 years ago. It's a fact that ages 3-13 are crucial in a child's emotional development. Really... that shit is textbook. Trauma during this time can really affect a growing mind. Either way.. good or bad. (I might have the exact ages wrong but the swing is there. Young to tween.)
Some parents are scum that should've never reproduced and other parents do the best they can.
You really can't blame anyone but the person that did the deed.
the worst thing in life is a parent loose their child.its so difficult to answer to this question..i think they felt strange ,kinda bad with the song....i think the song for sure blame the parents for the suicide.....
when a child suiside i have the feeling that parents sould try harder..i dont know..seems the most difficull thing i n the world to grow up kids in the best and healthy way..parents must never stop trying..
and one of the greatest thread is this one..congrats to OP.
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
-95, Stockholm (MirrorBall Tour)
-00, Stockholm
-07, Copenhagen
-09, Berlin
-10, Berlin
-11, East Troy 1+2
-12, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen, EV London 2
-13, London, Chicago
-14, Amsterdam 1+2, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo -16, TOTD San Francisco 1+2 -17, EV Amsterdam 2+3 -18, Amsterdam 1+2, London 1+(2), Barcelona, London 2 -19, EV Brussels
1. it was irresponsible using his real name in the song. I know spur of the moment etc etc, but for a man who claims and proclaims to do the research......you'd think maybe it would be a little more empathetic using a different name. Could you imagine if this was your friend or son/ daughter and you heard or saw this video? He writes a song about Layne and never uses his name...just wondering on that choice. Again I know he read it saw the kids name and said to himself Jeremy's spoken now they've heard his voice....but out of respect to the family why not change it? Instead any time they turn on the radio or MTV circa 1994 they gotta hear a song about their song killing himself, and what bad parents they are. So you read a fucking newspaper article and make all those conclusions Ed...irresponsible. Don;t fucking lecture me on a Oil company and tell me to research shit on TV.
2. I never had seen a picture of this young man, holy shit they even had the kid in the video look like him....see above post.
If I were involved with that kid as a friend of family I would be fucking infuriated and feel exploited.
I know the message of the song really isn't about glorifying it or anything, but did the band in turn ever donate money made from Jeremy to causes that support interventions to stem this event from occurring? Maybe send the family a million dollars to set up a scholarship fund for at risk teens or something?
Does the song illicit emotion and give a platform for thought and ideas, yes. Was it done in good taste IMO, no. I am a painter, I am of the ilk that you as artist are responsible for the images used to an extent, and you have a responsibility to think about connotations before you throw it out there. In this case I do not think they did this.
I don't have much of a "reasearched opinion", or one from "close experience," but I think the song captures the essence beautifully. It's dark, and portrays the story from an outsider's point of view.
That being said, I think that the parents have more to be concerned over than the lyrics to a song about their son.
THAT being said, I would hope that the parents are humbled that a song was written to raise awareness and hopefully prevent this type of situation in the future.
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Comments
I totally agree that people like Ozzy or Marilyn Manson can't be held responsible in case like that. But I also know that music does have a tremendous deal on impact on people had when interpreted wrong by mentally unstable people, bad things could happen. Take Charlie Manson trying to say that he killed people because he thought Helter Skelter was about the Apocalypse and that The Beatles were four prophets. Well Helter Sketler is an amusement park ride and the Beatles are four musicians. But that's not how he saw it.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
i agree.
but music isn't the only reason.
it shouldn't become the easy scapegoat.
Well I guess it could be about whatever you want it to be about....just like any song. But I just shudder to think what this song could me to some of the Catch A Predator types out there. Again, I called it a double-edged sword because it's an awesome alternative rock song....but in the same token it's a suicide victim screaming "rape me" over and over.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
jeremy's parents
It's a man screaming, "Rape Me!" in that song. Could be fucking traumatizing for a boy.
Best. Night. Ever.
all my hopes, anger, pride and shame
Yes thank you.
What happened to the sheep?! tell me!
thanks for sharing that with us. i can't imagine what it must be like for you but please know that time does heal wounds.
in a ways its kinda like what chris's(into the wild) parents went through. the guilt that they must have carried around, whether justified or not, must be incredibly saddening for them...always thinking if it was them that caused chris to leave them unannounced, or? that movie was so powerful. just trying to understand/comprehend what chris's parents went through in the process is incredibly haunting to me.
thanks all who posted good thoughts/reads/links in this thread. it has been a real good read and i'm glad the OP made the post...mostly caused im sick of people selling/trading shit here,x20(but thats for another thread)
to bad about kayne...meh
I don't know much about stuff like that but I'd wager a guess that so long as they don't use a last name, they'd be alright. You can't drop regular people's names in songs or television without their permission. But you can mention any public figure...like Barack Obama or Johnny Guitar Watson or whoever.
Pearl Jam bootlegs:
http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
For a parent to lose a child, whether they been a teen or adult, must be absolutely shattering. There would be an element of self-blame, I know i even blamed his mother for not doing more to prevent it.
I'm not how I would feel being in the shoes of Jeremys parents. There would def be a feeling of privacy invasion, I mean it's such an isolating thing to occur, but then perhaps also that the song would be something that others in his situation could relate to and maybe realise that there is another way. Suicide doesn't just kill the person committing it, it also kills a part of the other people in thier lives.
Dunno if it makes sense to anyone, but that;s my perspective.
-00, Stockholm
-07, Copenhagen
-09, Berlin
-10, Berlin
-11, East Troy 1+2
-12, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen, EV London 2
-13, London, Chicago
-14, Amsterdam 1+2, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo
-16, TOTD San Francisco 1+2
-17, EV Amsterdam 2+3
-18, Amsterdam 1+2, London 1+(2), Barcelona, London 2
-19, EV Brussels
Love her, and that's a beautiful, sad song.
http://pearljam.com/show/smirnoff-music ... ct-17-2000
huh...ed metions Jeremy before playing Jeremy
Jeremy was in fact the reason I became a PJ fan. Nothing clicked until this song. There is a good video on youtube with some footage of the high school and the grave site with Jeremy playing of course. It's pretty eerie. I remember being alienated in High School, I also remember wanting to be that way. Like that was my part. I am sure music like this plays a part in some people's psyche's but it's music that needs to be written.
Those were different times, and the music reflects that. You can't stop writing serious music because you are afraid that people will take it the wrong way. I have oftened wondered how jeremy's parents felt, and I guess they deserve credit for not becoming media whores.
It's sad that jeremy felt the need to do what he did, but I understand. Life is hard, and when things aren't right consistently it gets even harder.
The video has that controversial part where he kills himself but it's edited to be safe to make it look like he kills the classroom kids. There was a lot of hysteria over that misinterpretation. kind of like real life, very often we arrest overreact to the afflicted bullied child and enable the bullying and agressive kids.
ironically, when a co-worker and friend killed herself 8 years ago, I sought out Pearl Jam's music as a release and comfort.
Beautiful post.
Thanks for sharing.
+1
Wow, he hasn't aged well. Check out his birthday.
No. Not even close.
you can't blame the parents. Many people have ridiculously fucked-up childhoods and they don't kill themselves.
Remember this topic in 20 years and I guarantee you will change your answer.
Hope that doesn't come across as condescending.. wasn't meant to be. Recently, a 7th grader (12 yr old) at my daughter's school hung herself. Her father died of bone cancer 5 years ago. It's a fact that ages 3-13 are crucial in a child's emotional development. Really... that shit is textbook. Trauma during this time can really affect a growing mind. Either way.. good or bad. (I might have the exact ages wrong but the swing is there. Young to tween.)
Some parents are scum that should've never reproduced and other parents do the best they can.
You really can't blame anyone but the person that did the deed.
when a child suiside i have the feeling that parents sould try harder..i dont know..seems the most difficull thing i n the world to grow up kids in the best and healthy way..parents must never stop trying..
and one of the greatest thread is this one..congrats to OP.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I dont think its the same Trevor Wilson
-00, Stockholm
-07, Copenhagen
-09, Berlin
-10, Berlin
-11, East Troy 1+2
-12, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen, EV London 2
-13, London, Chicago
-14, Amsterdam 1+2, Berlin, Stockholm, Oslo
-16, TOTD San Francisco 1+2
-17, EV Amsterdam 2+3
-18, Amsterdam 1+2, London 1+(2), Barcelona, London 2
-19, EV Brussels
1. it was irresponsible using his real name in the song. I know spur of the moment etc etc, but for a man who claims and proclaims to do the research......you'd think maybe it would be a little more empathetic using a different name. Could you imagine if this was your friend or son/ daughter and you heard or saw this video? He writes a song about Layne and never uses his name...just wondering on that choice. Again I know he read it saw the kids name and said to himself Jeremy's spoken now they've heard his voice....but out of respect to the family why not change it? Instead any time they turn on the radio or MTV circa 1994 they gotta hear a song about their song killing himself, and what bad parents they are. So you read a fucking newspaper article and make all those conclusions Ed...irresponsible. Don;t fucking lecture me on a Oil company and tell me to research shit on TV.
2. I never had seen a picture of this young man, holy shit they even had the kid in the video look like him....see above post.
If I were involved with that kid as a friend of family I would be fucking infuriated and feel exploited.
I know the message of the song really isn't about glorifying it or anything, but did the band in turn ever donate money made from Jeremy to causes that support interventions to stem this event from occurring? Maybe send the family a million dollars to set up a scholarship fund for at risk teens or something?
Does the song illicit emotion and give a platform for thought and ideas, yes. Was it done in good taste IMO, no. I am a painter, I am of the ilk that you as artist are responsible for the images used to an extent, and you have a responsibility to think about connotations before you throw it out there. In this case I do not think they did this.
I don't have much of a "reasearched opinion", or one from "close experience," but I think the song captures the essence beautifully. It's dark, and portrays the story from an outsider's point of view.
That being said, I think that the parents have more to be concerned over than the lyrics to a song about their son.
THAT being said, I would hope that the parents are humbled that a song was written to raise awareness and hopefully prevent this type of situation in the future.