Obama's christmas gift to families: 30,000 being sent to die
musicismylife78
Posts: 6,116
nice of Obama to think of the kids during this holiday season. Instead of being warm and toasty, with family, and friends, at home, 30 thousand kids are being given death sentences. What a thoughtful gift. Nope these kids wont be by a warm fire, eating warm meal, nope they will be lost, cold, and alone in Iraq and Afghanistan, thousands of miles from their loves ones.
What a nice present.
What a nice present.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Did you write this kind of thing when Geroge Bush sent troops over or at that time did you think it was all heroic and necessary? :geek:&&&&&&&&&&&&&&0
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i wish people would realize foreign policy doesn't change with the party in power, which i have been saying for years.0
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justam wrote:Did you write this kind of thing when Geroge Bush sent troops over or at that time did you think it was all heroic and necessary? :geek:
sure did. In fact I took part in protest against the Afghanistan war all the way back in Sept/Oct 2001.0 -
Those who start wars, never fight them.
And those who fight wars, they never like them
And those who write laws, they can't recite them
And those of us who just fight laws, they live and die by them
Cause they're never gonna tell you why. No.
They're only gonna tell ya lies, no.Cause they're never gonna tell you why. No.
They're only gonna tell ya lies, no.
It's time.......time to go home
Don't take our boys away
Don't take our girls away
Don't take our boys away
Don't take our girls away
Those who build walls are pretending
That forever they can defend them
Those who dam streams can build fountains
Those of us who just let them run free
They can move mountains
Cause they're never gonna tell you why. No.
They're only gonna tell ya lies, no.Cause they're never gonna tell you why. No.
They're only gonna tell ya lies, no.
Don't take our boys away
Don't take our girls away
Don't take our boys away
Don't take our girls away
Don't take our boys away
Its time Its time
How many people were they running from?
How many people never saw it coming?
How many people never heard the warning?
How many people never stayed at home?
How many people never heard the call?
How many people never saw it all?
How many people did they spend it on?
How many people got to sing the song?
How many people never heard the cry?
How many people got pushed aside?
How many people never saw the doves fly?
How many people never said goodbye?
How many people never saw it fallin'?
How many people 'til we end it all?
How many people never saw the wrong end?
How many people did we drop the bomb on?
Don't take our boys away
Don't take our girls away
Don't take our boys away
Don't take our girls away
Don't take our boys away
It's time to go home!0 -
Holy shit, can we be more dramatic and over exaggerate? As I recall, there is no draft, they are 30K of volunteers. Chances are most of them signed up post 9-11, they know what they are getting into.
I say thank you to them for stepping up and going, and a safe return too their families.
History will prove that their time spend over there won't go wasted.BRING BACK THE WHALE0 -
they are conquering a third world country, they aren't doing it for you. no need to thank themOffHeGoes29 wrote:Holy shit, can we be more dramatic and over exaggerate? As I recall, there is no draft, they are 30K of volunteers. Chances are most of them signed up post 9-11, they know what they are getting into.
I say thank you to them for stepping up and going, and a safe return too their families.
History will prove that their time spend over there won't go wasted.0 -
you talk as though they should be going on an all expenses paid vacation, to the fucking sandy beaches at bondi.musicismylife78 wrote:nice of Obama to think of the kids during this holiday season. Instead of being warm and toasty, with family, and friends, at home, 30 thousand kids are being given death sentences. What a thoughtful gift. Nope these kids wont be by a warm fire, eating warm meal, nope they will be lost, cold, and alone in Iraq and Afghanistan, thousands of miles from their loves ones.
What a nice present.
they signed up to kill people. sorry it's not more pleasant for them.0 -
OffHeGoes29 wrote:Holy shit, can we be more dramatic and over exaggerate? As I recall, there is no draft, they are 30K of volunteers. Chances are most of them signed up post 9-11, they know what they are getting into.
I say thank you to them for stepping up and going, and a safe return too their families.
History will prove that their time spend over there won't go wasted.
ummm, yeah its a little more complicated than that. If they signed up post 9-11, then they have been serving for 7/8 years now, and have gone to iraq and afghanistan 4 or 5 times now. Gone to war, then brought home. Called back up. Then let go home. Called up. Let go home. This obviously takes a major toll on the soldiers families, and the soldiers themselves. Imagine explaining to your 4 year old daughter who gave you a huge hug as you came home after serving a year in Iraq, that your unit is now being called back up again, and "daddy will have to leave again".
Secondly, history will prove their time wasnt wasted? Huh? You high, friend? A bunch of their friends and buddies were murdered, and they personally had to either shoot at or kill other human beings. They had to engage in battle, with death and blood and horror all around them. Imagine your buddy being mowed down, and then having to continue. Imagine being a scared 18 year old kid, seeing death and bodies, your friends head blown off, and then seeing Iraqi citizens harmed and or dead.
Imagine being an 18 year old kid, who survives, a lucky one, who comes back home, and isnt able to relate to his wife, his kids or his family after coming back. Imagine being an 18 year old who is scared of the backfire of a car, and has flashbacks at night. Imagine being 18 and feeling like your life is over. Imagine being 18 and coming home, but having to adjust to a lost leg, arm, or other body part?Post edited by musicismylife78 on0 -
TriumphantAngel wrote:
you talk as though they should be going on an all expenses paid vacation, to the fucking sandy beaches at bondi.musicismylife78 wrote:nice of Obama to think of the kids during this holiday season. Instead of being warm and toasty, with family, and friends, at home, 30 thousand kids are being given death sentences. What a thoughtful gift. Nope these kids wont be by a warm fire, eating warm meal, nope they will be lost, cold, and alone in Iraq and Afghanistan, thousands of miles from their loves ones.
What a nice present.
they signed up to kill people. sorry it's not more pleasant for them.
What about the large amount of people who sign up because their are no other prospects as they are poor, dont have a job? How about the people who think they will get the 30,000 dollars for college? Or learn life/job skills while their?
Or just naive 18 year old kids who dont know better, and dont know really what being in the military means.
I dont think its as simple as you make it. And yeah, far be it from me to actually suggest these kids deserve way better than they are getting! Wow, thats so off base of me to suggest!0 -
to answer that, i'll post something i said a while ago in another thread.musicismylife78 wrote:TriumphantAngel wrote:
you talk as though they should be going on an all expenses paid vacation, to the fucking sandy beaches at bondi.musicismylife78 wrote:nice of Obama to think of the kids during this holiday season. Instead of being warm and toasty, with family, and friends, at home, 30 thousand kids are being given death sentences. What a thoughtful gift. Nope these kids wont be by a warm fire, eating warm meal, nope they will be lost, cold, and alone in Iraq and Afghanistan, thousands of miles from their loves ones.
What a nice present.
they signed up to kill people. sorry it's not more pleasant for them.
What about the large amount of people who sign up because their are no other prospects as they are poor, dont have a job? How about the people who think they will get the 30,000 dollars for college? Or learn life/job skills while their?
Or just naive 18 year old kids who dont know better, and dont know really what being in the military means.
I dont think its as simple as you make it. And yeah, far be it from me to actually suggest these kids deserve way better than they are getting! Wow, thats so off base of me to suggest!
i am completely against the war. how can you be against the war and say you support the troops? that is one of the lamest, gutless, positions that a pacifist can take. kinda the same as if the one damn lesson they took away from Vietnam wasn't to avoid foreign conflicts with no pressing national interest, but to remember to throw a parade afterward.
i'm also pretty damn sure that the majority of soldiers are good guys, the sort of guys i'd love to have a beer with and a laugh with. no problems at all. same as i have no problem with other people who are in favour of the Iraq war, supporting the troops. If you think invading Iraq was a good idea, then by all means, support away. just don't tell me that i am an asshat for thinking/feeling like i do.
for me, blindly lending support to our soldiers, will keep them overseas longer by giving soft acquiescence to the fuckers who sent them there, and who might one day want to send them somewhere else. I do sympathize with people who joined up to protect our country, especially after 9/11, and were tricked into fighting in Iraq.
i'll support, and continue to campaign for, their need for quality health care, pensions, mental health assistance and a safe, immediate return.
no more war.0 -
Jeanwah wrote:Those who start wars, never fight them.
And those who fight wars, they never like them
And those who write laws, they can't recite them
And those of us who just fight laws, they live and die by them
Cause they're never gonna tell you why. No.
They're only gonna tell ya lies, no.Cause they're never gonna tell you why. No.
They're only gonna tell ya lies, no.
It's time.......time to go home
Don't take our boys away
Don't take our girls away
Don't take our boys away
Don't take our girls away
Those who build walls are pretending
That forever they can defend them
Those who dam streams can build fountains
Those of us who just let them run free
They can move mountains
Cause they're never gonna tell you why. No.
They're only gonna tell ya lies, no.Cause they're never gonna tell you why. No.
They're only gonna tell ya lies, no.
Don't take our boys away
Don't take our girls away
Don't take our boys away
Don't take our girls away
Don't take our boys away
Its time Its time
How many people were they running from?
How many people never saw it coming?
How many people never heard the warning?
How many people never stayed at home?
How many people never heard the call?
How many people never saw it all?
How many people did they spend it on?
How many people got to sing the song?
How many people never heard the cry?
How many people got pushed aside?
How many people never saw the doves fly?
How many people never said goodbye?
How many people never saw it fallin'?
How many people 'til we end it all?
How many people never saw the wrong end?
How many people did we drop the bomb on?
Don't take our boys away
Don't take our girls away
Don't take our boys away
Don't take our girls away
Don't take our boys away
It's time to go home!
Nice, the one and only Michael Franti great song and video. I forsee many protests in 2010 here in DC. Why do we think this country will conquer the occupation of Afghanistan with this stragedy I'll never know.
It's time to bring them home.
Peace*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)0 -
The problem is with the half-ass way we started this campaign to begin with. We've never been in the fight to win it. The people that send our boys into battle have a duty and responsibility to give them anything and everything they need to fight that battle as quickly and effectively as possible. War is absolute bullshit, but if there is no other way to avoid it, then you need to have a plan that gets them in and out as quickly as possible. That is the only way to limit the effect on civilians, and protect our troops. Not to take the word "humane" lightly, but the only humane way to engage a war that will have as little impact on civilians possible is to be swift and forceful and for God's sake, don't give the media your freakin battle plans. Why they thought they could get away with just a few thousand troops to begin with back in 2001 is just mind boggling to me. We landed on the tiny island of Okinawa Japan with over 180,000 troops in World War II. We had a different mindset then, we were there to win, and we were there to win as quickly as we could. We didn't send a few thousand, we didn't let the media know where our landing zones were going to be, and then fumble around for 7 years before we sent more troops. This 30,000 troops will do little to expedite this war, and as long as Karzai is telling us when and how we can fight, then we might as well say fuck it and just bring them all home.0
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TriumphantAngel wrote:
they signed up to kill people. sorry it's not more pleasant for them.
agreed.0 -
All I am saying friend, is that its a little more complex than a bunch of patriotic go USA flag waving people joining the military. There are many reasons people enlist, I outlined them in my post and none of them have to do with wanting to kill people. Yes some people who join, just want to kill Iraqis, but its ignorant to think that everyone who joins, joins for that reason. And even if that is youre MO, I think alot of men, young men, put on this false bravado, this macho facade, and then when they go to war, they see the horror of war, and it effects them. I feel for that crowd as well.
I personally, as an anti military recruitment activist back in my day talked to many folks who joined up specifically for the false belief that they would get the money for college. The killing had nothing to do with it. Not too many places offer you essentially free money, but the military does, offer that is.
Additionally, with all wars, everyone needs to be held accountable. Those low level guards at Abu Gharaib deserve to be punished for the rest of their lives for their behavior, but its naive and silly to think they, or ANY soldier does anything that isnt approved by higher ups. Where did these low level guards learn to degrade people like that? How did they know that Muslim culture is unfortunatly intolerant of gays? And that to have them act in "gay" ways would be dehumanizing? You really think they thought of that themselves?
I also think if you are a scared 18 year old kid, scared out of his wits, and is constantly being told that the iraqis want to kill you, that if you were guarding a checkpoint, and a bunch of iraqis in a car whizzed by without stopping, that you might be scared enough to shoot to kill. Doesnt excuse the behavior, but it does give insight. Being a scared kid, and having seen your buddies murdered in front of you, I can imagine wanting to lash out, and being so scared you accidentally shoot someone who is innocent.0 -
i do not for one minute think that people enlist simply to kill people. i am completely against the war, and i can't be against the war and say i support the troops for the reasons i already mentioned in my previous post.musicismylife78 wrote:All I am saying friend, is that its a little more complex than a bunch of patriotic go USA flag waving people joining the military. There are many reasons people enlist, I outlined them in my post and none of them have to do with wanting to kill people. Yes some people who join, just want to kill Iraqis, but its ignorant to think that everyone who joins, joins for that reason. And even if that is youre MO, I think alot of men, young men, put on this false bravado, this macho facade, and then when they go to war, they see the horror of war, and it effects them. I feel for that crowd as well.
I personally, as an anti military recruitment activist back in my day talked to many folks who joined up specifically for the false belief that they would get the money for college. The killing had nothing to do with it. Not too many places offer you essentially free money, but the military does, offer that is.
Additionally, with all wars, everyone needs to be held accountable. Those low level guards at Abu Gharaib deserve to be punished for the rest of their lives for their behavior, but its naive and silly to think they, or ANY soldier does anything that isnt approved by higher ups. Where did these low level guards learn to degrade people like that? How did they know that Muslim culture is unfortunatly intolerant of gays? And that to have them act in "gay" ways would be dehumanizing? You really think they thought of that themselves?
I also think if you are a scared 18 year old kid, scared out of his wits, and is constantly being told that the iraqis want to kill you, that if you were guarding a checkpoint, and a bunch of iraqis in a car whizzed by without stopping, that you might be scared enough to shoot to kill. Doesnt excuse the behavior, but it does give insight. Being a scared kid, and having seen your buddies murdered in front of you, I can imagine wanting to lash out, and being so scared you accidentally shoot someone who is innocent.0 -
i guess I was confused. Didnt you post "they signed up to kill people. sorry it's not more pleasant for them"? That to me sounds like, well...you believe they signed up to kill people, and that if things are bad over there that its their own fault? Your position is all over the place.
Why didnt you post something more measured, and that took into account the complexities of war?
If I met someone that said "they signed up to kill people. sorry it's not more pleasant for them." I would think they were against the war, but couldnt care one iota what happened to the soldiers. Maybe thats your view.0 -
musicismylife78 wrote:i guess I was confused. Didnt you post "they signed up to kill people. sorry it's not more pleasant for them"? That to me sounds like, well...you believe they signed up to kill people, and that if things are bad over there that its their own fault? Your position is all over the place.
Why didnt you post something more measured, and that took into account the complexities of war?
If I met someone that said "they signed up to kill people. sorry it's not more pleasant for them." I would think they were against the war, but couldnt care one iota what happened to the soldiers. Maybe thats your view.
storm troopers dying for empire do not necessarily deserve respect or support. especially when they are volunteering.0 -
no, my position is not all over the place. i'm very clear on what i believe. if you read my second post you will understand. maybe. i can't be any clearer than that. and i'm not going over the same thing i already said before. i've explained my position, and i never once said i couldn't care one iota what happened to the soldiers.musicismylife78 wrote:i guess I was confused. Didnt you post "they signed up to kill people. sorry it's not more pleasant for them"? That to me sounds like, well...you believe they signed up to kill people, and that if things are bad over there that its their own fault? Your position is all over the place.
Why didnt you post something more measured, and that took into account the complexities of war?
If I met someone that said "they signed up to kill people. sorry it's not more pleasant for them." I would think they were against the war, but couldnt care one iota what happened to the soldiers. Maybe thats your view.
in fact i did say, 'i'll support, and continue to campaign for, their need for quality health care, pensions, mental health assistance and a safe, immediate return.'
no more war.0 -
sorry, i am against the war and i see what TA is saying. you can not be against war and "support the troops". the troops fight the war, so by being against war you can not be supportive of the troops without endorsing what they do for a living, as they are the primary instrument in that war. i can not wrap my head around the line of thinking of people that are against war yet have a yellow ribbon magnet on their car.
i do not feel sorry for these soldiers because they know what they are getting into when they sign up...no soldier i ever knew signed up for the service and was oblivious to the fact that they might have to deploy to a war zone and god-forbid have to kill or be killed. its in the job description. that would be like me taking a job as a garbage collector and then being upset for having to touch other people's trash everyday.
besides, not all 30,000 are going to die, that is 5 times the number that have died in the last 8 years..."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0
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