Photo camera expertise and recommendations needed

shoelessdun · August 2016

Can one of you pro photography camera experts weigh in and please recommend a Lumix new model 4k camera for me that has an expansive zoom, fixed lens, 4k video capability, that will shoot awesome PJ vids in low light for me? Budgeting about 800 bucks for it. Thanks in advance.

mrussel1 · August 2016

shoelessdun said:
Can one of you pro photography camera experts weigh in and please recommend a Lumix new model 4k camera for me that has an expansive zoom, fixed lens, 4k video capability, that will shoot awesome PJ vids in low light for me? Budgeting about 800 bucks for it. Thanks in advance.

Well for that price you have a ton of options. The FZ1000 is a great camera and can do everything you want. The problem is that it might be a challenge getting it into some arenas. To give you a sense of quality, you can see video by Datflys online and see the very high level of quality. I could also send you a real file that he recorded so you can see how great the quality really is on the FZ1000. It is off the charts. But again, a bigger camera.

Something more compact but still very strong is the ZS100. It does everything you want although the zoom won't be quite as strong. The good news is that it's super compact, can fit in your pocket and you won't get grief at teh arena door.

I have the ZS60 which is the model before the ZS100 and never have an issue. Conversely, one of my recording partners has an FZ and he has to fight at every door and even got it taken away in Toronto before getting it back.

benjs · August 2016

Take a look at the chart below. On the vertical axis is equivalent aperture - effectively, the amount of light the camera can absorb at one time. On this, the lower the line, the better off you are. The more light your camera can absorb at once, the less time you need to have your shutter open, and therefore the sharper your shots or video (because you produce less shake by capturing more light in less time). On the horizontal axis is the equivalent focal length - in other words, the range of your zoom lens.

The orange line is the Sony RX10 MK II which allows an amazing amount of light in throughout its range but only zooms to 200mm (about 4x), whereas the FZ1000 lets less light in (more potential for blurriness) but zooms further to 400mm (about 8x). So, they both have trade-offs! If price is an object, I'd second the recommend for the FZ1000. The ZS100, in my opinion, probably won't cut it for what you're after due to the high aperture values across the board (see the second screen grab).

If you need any more advice, please let me know! Our family business is cameras in Canada, and my dad was a photographer, so I know my way around them pretty well

EDIT: The third image shows all of the cameras I've mentioned, and then a few others. I'd still say the FZ1000 is a great value proposition.

mrussel1 · August 2016

I agree the FZ takes beautiful videos. I haven't seen pictures, but when I edit shows, the FZ 4k is a joy to work with. It is stunning. I just know it can be a challenge to get in the door. So if concerts are the primary desire, that should be a concern.

shoelessdun · August 2016

This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for so thanks very much! What is it about the FZ that makes it so challenging to get into venues? Is it that it looks like a DSLR?

And Benjs, what are your thoughts on the ZS100?

mrussel1 · August 2016

shoelessdun said:
This is exactly the kind of information I was looking for so thanks very much! What is it about the FZ that makes it so challenging to get into venues? Is it that it looks like a DSLR?

And Benjs, what are your thoughts on the ZS100?

Yes, it is easily mistaken for a professional camera. Although the lens is not detachable, it extends quite far. MFSYNC172 (aka cockage) got stopped and hassled at both Chicago shows. I breezed in without a second look.

ikiT · August 2016

i dont need, use, or believe in 4k.
I use the sadly discontinued Panasonic LX 7 with the EVF attached, just to shoot stills, but it's HD vid is stellar..
24mm to 90mm equiv. f1.4 at 24mm f2.3 at 90

Panaleica LX 100 is the way to go now, although you dont have as much telephoto going from 24mm to 75mm and although he lens is negligibly slower f1.7 at 24mm and f2.8 at 75mm, you have 30p 4K Ultra HD video
$800 list price.
$797.99 at B&H today
I would be amazed if someone were to question you walking in with either one of those cameras.

http://shop.panasonic.com/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/lumix-point-and-shoot-cameras/DMC-LX100.html#start=1&cgid=cameras

ikiT · August 2016

...and that stage lighting design isn't technically "low light". it's deceivingly bright up there.
most of my stills that I have shot from the pit and at shows 800 to 1250 ISO 250th to 500th of a second at f2

benjs · August 2016

Tiki said:
i dont need, use, or believe in 4k.
I use the sadly discontinued Panasonic LX 7 with the EVF attached, just to shoot stills, but it's HD vid is stellar..
24mm to 90mm equiv. f1.4 at 24mm f2.3 at 90

Panaleica LX 100 is the way to go now, although you dont have as much telephoto going from 24mm to 75mm and although he lens is negligibly slower f1.7 at 24mm and f2.8 at 75mm, you have 30p 4K Ultra HD video
$800 list price.
$797.99 at B&H today
I would be amazed if someone were to question you walking in with either one of those cameras.

http://shop.panasonic.com/cameras-and-camcorders/cameras/lumix-point-and-shoot-cameras/DMC-LX100.html#start=1&cgid=cameras

The LX100 is what I own personally. I omitted it because of its restrictive zoom range, but the camera is phenomenal, and the 4K is stunning. Your sensor is also 4/3" diagonal compared to the other mentioned cameras' 1" diagonal size. That translates to roughly 50% greater sensor area, and the sensor is responsible for allowing light in, so again - sharper photo/video potential. In addition, the camera is such a pleasure to use, with some of the best manual controlling mechanisms I've used (but I'm a dial guy, the more manual controls vs. screen controls, the better).

And Tiki - read this regarding 4K. In addition to these reasons, I was under the impression that shooting in 4K and down-sampling to 1080p can yield greater dynamic range on your shots, but don't quote me on that as I can't remember my source! https://fstoppers.com/originals/6-reasons-shoot-4k-video-even-if-you-cant-view-it-yet-77535

shoelessdun - I would not get the ZS100, strictly based on the equivalent aperture curve I showed above. You'll see that the equivalent aperture across the range is substantially larger than most of the other cameras we've been discussing. That will translate to requiring a slower shutter speed, which translates to less crisp shots and videos. If you can avoid it, I would!

EDIT: Another thing to consider is that the LX100's restrictive zoom is somewhat offset by the fact that the sensor size is so much larger. This means you could very well have as much quality video data in a quadrant of a 4K shot, as you might in a full 4K shot from any of the 1" sensor cameras (i.e. any of the other cameras discussed here). Sorry if this is getting too technical!

ikiT · August 2016

i agree with all of those points for 4k opening up a whole world of "improvable and/or fixable in post" HD video in that f stoppers article.
I'm just a stills guy by profession, and and don't enjoy video editing at all.

shoelessdun · August 2016

Some great info here y'all.

I do want a camera that I can shoot sick stills and HD video with, all in 1 package.
My concern with that LX100 model is the restrictive zoom range in comparison to the Lumix FZ100. This is my concern because the 10C tix I often score put me in the mezzanine and sometimes purdy darn far away from the stage. I mean, Philly 1 this tour I was lower bowl, but 3/4 of the way around the side on Mike's side. Without a serious zoom, no way I'd be able to get any kind of decent shots of say just Mike or just Jeff.

mrussel1 · August 2016

^^ This is all true. I'm not a pro by any stretch for shooting, but I know a fair amount about using video considering all the shows we've done. And while 4k is not usable in the blu ray format, it provides a huge advantage after shooting. I will often downsample to 1080 which makes it lose that 4k edge, but it loses no clarity when cropping and zooming. That means if the shot is bad, off center, shaky, etc, it can be cleaned up by deshaking, zooming, cropping and straightening with no loss of clarity. A native 1080 shot will lose clarity in that process (even if not really perceptible).

benjs · August 2016

shoelessdun said:
Some great info here y'all.

I do want a camera that I can shoot sick stills and HD video with, all in 1 package.
My concern with that LX100 model is the restrictive zoom range in comparison to the Lumix FZ100. This is my concern because the 10C tix I often score put me in the mezzanine and sometimes purdy darn far away from the stage. I mean, Philly 1 this tour I was lower bowl, but 3/4 of the way around the side on Mike's side. Without a serious zoom, no way I'd be able to get any kind of decent shots of say just Mike or just Jeff.

When I do shows with my dad, he goes with the FZ1000, and I go with the LX100. Our shots typically come out comparable. My lens is far shorter, but my sensor is far larger, so the amount of data I can extract once I've cropped my shot is very similar.

If you want to see what some close-ups can look like with the LX100, see my album from Brooklyn (link below)! I'll try to dig up some long-range crops to show you what they're like for comparison's sake

https://flic.kr/s/aHsjL6oGrX

shoelessdun · August 2016

That KS for the link but it says I don't have permission...rats.

benjs · August 2016

shoelessdun said:
That KS for the link but it says I don't have permission...rats.

Sorry! Try this one. https://flic.kr/s/aHsjLGwGbk

shoelessdun · August 2016

Wow. Those are terrific...how far away were you? Did you have to clean those up at all in Photoshop?

benjs · August 2016

shoelessdun said:
Wow. Those are terrific...how far away were you? Did you have to clean those up at all in Photoshop?

Thanks so much!

Totally untouched, at the rail right in front of Mike

shoelessdun · August 2016

Nice!

Suziemay · August 2016

benjs said:

shoelessdun said:
That KS for the link but it says I don't have permission...rats.
Sorry! Try this one. https://flic.kr/s/aHsjLGwGbk

Wow, those are amazing! What if you were further away, like lower bowl towards the back of GA, would you still get pretty good pictures?

I'm on the lookout for a better camera for concerts

RKCNDY · August 2016

Suziemay said:

Wow, those are amazing! What if you were further away, like lower bowl towards the back of GA, would you still get pretty good pictures?

I'm on the lookout for a better camera for concerts

I am as well...would like one that shoots in RAW and JPG. Looking to spend $500 with a fixed lens. (I already have the A6000 in mind for when I shoot landscape and astrophotography)

ikiT · August 2016

I've been stopped and subsequently let in every time with the detachable lens Sony Nex -6. It's really a great camera but not a fixed lenser.
You may be able to find that Panasonic LX-7. RAW JPG HD vid
I took the photo above with an LX-7 about 8 rows deep in GA at Hampton.

ceska · August 2016

I don't know about video, but I used to be a Lumix guy and have loved the Canon Powershot G16 for stills since switching over.

Photo camera expertise and recommendations needed

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