You can't expect the band take a stand on every single issue every single time. If that were the case, they would never play a single show. They have every night to act when they want, how they want. I'm not calling it a "liberal" or a "conservative" thing, just an idiotic thing to expect the band to cancel every single show in every state with a law they don't agree with just because they did it in NC. I think you're missing the point entirely from those who supported the NC cancellation -- it wasn't about supporting some so-called hypocritical decision to cancel there and not in other places, it was was about supporting the band in their decision to protest in whatever form, and at whatever time, they so choose. We may be fans that enable them to become rich and famous, but under no circumstances should that allow us to determine how they go about with their personal and political decisions.
They just played a festival that benefits Shell Oil. I'm not being passive at all. We're all hypocrites but canceling Raleigh and playing in TN is bad. So is talking for 60 seconds in Columbia about massive companies destroying our environment and then 48 hours later playing on a stage backed by a Shell Oil sign.
In said show in NO: 1st - they played a set list for actual PJ fans, not the casual fans, as it was an awesome set list that only the fans that actually follow the band would appreciate - If you don't believe me go check out some Jazz Fest forums. 2nd - they used the platform to help raise more awareness to Team Gleason, in fact I could believe that they only even played this show as a favor to him 3rd - they ended the show almost 20 minutes before the curfew
Vant posted it best earlier though I figured I would weigh in - also - I had 10C tickets for Raleigh and fully support their decision to cancel that show.
Columbia 2008 Atlanta 2012 Wrigley 2013 Charlotte 2013 Seattle 2013 Memphis 2014 Greenville (VS.) 2016 Columbia 2016 New Orleans 2016 Fenway I 2016 Fenway II 2016 Wrigley I 2016 Wrigley II 2016
They just played a festival that benefits Shell Oil. I'm not being passive at all. We're all hypocrites but canceling Raleigh and playing in TN is bad. So is talking for 60 seconds in Columbia about massive companies destroying our environment and then 48 hours later playing on a stage backed by a Shell Oil sign.
In said show in NO: 1st - they played a set list for actual PJ fans, not the casual fans, as it was an awesome set list that only the fans that actually follow the band would appreciate - If you don't believe me go check out some Jazz Fest forums. 2nd - they used the platform to help raise more awareness to Team Gleason, in fact I could believe that they only even played this show as a favor to him 3rd - they ended the show almost 20 minutes before the curfew
Vant posted it best earlier though I figured I would weigh in - also - I had 10C tickets for Raleigh and fully support their decision to cancel that show.
so why not play an arena show instead?
2007 Lollapalooza Eddie was on stage blasting BP and even made up a song "Don't Go To BP" or something like that
I wonder if they realize Shell now owns BP... and they were standing on a stage sponsored by Shell/BP, the same company they were berating and trying to boycott 9 years ago...
and when they play Bonnaroo in June, they will be standing on a stage in a state that allows people to be denied basic human services because of their sexual orientation
that's the problem with todays society, they think by sending 1 tweet or filling out a petition is all they need to do to bring change and they move on the next day... North Carolina was not the start of this issue and it will not be the end of this issue... just canceling 1 concert in North Carolina did not all of the sudden make the LGBT community whole, so to speak, or end the struggle... women's suffrage and the black civil rights battle took place across the entire country for years, the civil rights movement had to fight in every corner of the south for YEARS, not just a random Wednesday in Raleigh North Carolina...
you cant be neutral on a moving train...
By your logic, if you give a homeless family a couple dollars one time, you better give every homeless family you ever come across the same amount, otherwise your action was pointless. By your logic, if you donate to an Animal Rights group, you better donate to every single Animal Rights group, or else you should have never donated to any at all. By your logic, if you stand up for an issue you care about in one place, you better spend all of your time and money standing up for it in every place, otherwise your protest is invalid.
If the world actually followed your logic, no important fights for change would ever take place because it's far too much to ask for anybody to do everything, everywhere and all the time for a cause that he/she supports.
That doesn't negate the impact that a single action makes. If you think that Pearl Jam's decision to cancel in North Carolina had no impact on the movement as a whole, do a Google News search for "Pearl Jam North Carolina" and explain how 900 articles on the topic inspired absolutely no awareness or discussion across the nation.
Post edited by walkunafraid on
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
You can't expect the band take a stand on every single issue every single time. If that were the case, they would never play a single show. They have every night to act when they want, how they want. I'm not calling it a "liberal" or a "conservative" thing, just an idiotic thing to expect the band to cancel every single show in every state with a law they don't agree with just because they did it in NC. I think you're missing the point entirely from those who supported the NC cancellation -- it wasn't about supporting some so-called hypocritical decision to cancel there and not in other places, it was was about supporting the band in their decision to protest in whatever form, and at whatever time, they so choose. We may be fans that enable them to become rich and famous, but under no circumstances should that allow us to determine how they go about with their personal and political decisions.
this is the same issue...
I never said it wasn't the same issue. It's a different show, a different state, a different law on the same issue. What don't you get about that?
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
that's the problem with todays society, they think by sending 1 tweet or filling out a petition is all they need to do to bring change and they move on the next day... North Carolina was not the start of this issue and it will not be the end of this issue... just canceling 1 concert in North Carolina did not all of the sudden make the LGBT community whole, so to speak, or end the struggle... women's suffrage and the black civil rights battle took place across the entire country for years, the civil rights movement had to fight in every corner of the south for YEARS, not just a random Wednesday in Raleigh North Carolina...
you cant be neutral on a moving train...
By your logic, if you give a homeless family a couple dollars one time, you better give every homeless family you ever come across the same amount, otherwise your action was pointless. By your logic, if you donate to an Animal Rights group, you better donate to every single Animal Rights group, or else you should have never donated to any at all. By your logic, if you stand up for an issue you care about in one place, you better spend all of your time and money standing up for it in every place, otherwise your protest is invalid.
If the world actually followed your logic, no important fights for change would ever take place because it's far too much to ask for anybody to do everything, everywhere and all the time for a cause that he/she supports.
That doesn't negate the impact that a single action makes. If you think that Pearl Jam's decision to cancel in North Carolina had no impact on the movement as a whole, do a Google News search for "Pearl Jam North Carolina" and explain how 900 articles on the topic inspired absolutely no awareness of discussion across the nation.
that's the problem with todays society, they think by sending 1 tweet or filling out a petition is all they need to do to bring change and they move on the next day... North Carolina was not the start of this issue and it will not be the end of this issue... just canceling 1 concert in North Carolina did not all of the sudden make the LGBT community whole, so to speak, or end the struggle... women's suffrage and the black civil rights battle took place across the entire country for years, the civil rights movement had to fight in every corner of the south for YEARS, not just a random Wednesday in Raleigh North Carolina...
you cant be neutral on a moving train...
By your logic, if you give a homeless family a couple dollars one time, you better give every homeless family you ever come across the same amount, otherwise your action was pointless. By your logic, if you donate to an Animal Rights group, you better donate to every single Animal Rights group, or else you should have never donated to any at all. By your logic, if you stand up for an issue you care about in one place, you better spend all of your time and money standing up for it in every place, otherwise your protest is invalid.
If the world actually followed your logic, no important fights for change would ever take place because it's far too much to ask for anybody to do everything, everywhere and all the time for a cause that he/she supports.
That doesn't negate the impact that a single action makes. If you think that Pearl Jam's decision to cancel in North Carolina had no impact on the movement as a whole, do a Google News search for "Pearl Jam North Carolina" and explain how 900 articles on the topic inspired absolutely no awareness of discussion across the nation.
The logic isn't the same as you paint it to be.
Like it or not... he's got a point.
I think it was poor to cancel given their brutal timing bearing the most significance from my perspective, but I also think the window for venting about it on these boards has shut (and this thread is most certainly venting).
You can't expect the band take a stand on every single issue every single time. If that were the case, they would never play a single show. They have every night to act when they want, how they want. I'm not calling it a "liberal" or a "conservative" thing, just an idiotic thing to expect the band to cancel every single show in every state with a law they don't agree with just because they did it in NC. I think you're missing the point entirely from those who supported the NC cancellation -- it wasn't about supporting some so-called hypocritical decision to cancel there and not in other places, it was was about supporting the band in their decision to protest in whatever form, and at whatever time, they so choose. We may be fans that enable them to become rich and famous, but under no circumstances should that allow us to determine how they go about with their personal and political decisions.
this is the same issue...
I never said it wasn't the same issue. It's a different show, a different state, a different law on the same issue. What don't you get about that?
Read their statement on why they cancelled and tell me why it doesn't apply to TN.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
that's the problem with todays society, they think by sending 1 tweet or filling out a petition is all they need to do to bring change and they move on the next day... North Carolina was not the start of this issue and it will not be the end of this issue... just canceling 1 concert in North Carolina did not all of the sudden make the LGBT community whole, so to speak, or end the struggle... women's suffrage and the black civil rights battle took place across the entire country for years, the civil rights movement had to fight in every corner of the south for YEARS, not just a random Wednesday in Raleigh North Carolina...
you cant be neutral on a moving train...
By your logic, if you give a homeless family a couple dollars one time, you better give every homeless family you ever come across the same amount, otherwise your action was pointless. By your logic, if you donate to an Animal Rights group, you better donate to every single Animal Rights group, or else you should have never donated to any at all. By your logic, if you stand up for an issue you care about in one place, you better spend all of your time and money standing up for it in every place, otherwise your protest is invalid.
If the world actually followed your logic, no important fights for change would ever take place because it's far too much to ask for anybody to do everything, everywhere and all the time for a cause that he/she supports.
That doesn't negate the impact that a single action makes. If you think that Pearl Jam's decision to cancel in North Carolina had no impact on the movement as a whole, do a Google News search for "Pearl Jam North Carolina" and explain how 900 articles on the topic inspired absolutely no awareness of discussion across the nation.
you are making extreme examples to fit your agenda...
I support LGBT rights, and everyone else's civil rights, 24/7 365 days of the year no matter what state/country I am in... so yes, you should be consistent if you believe in an issue... I have chosen a career that helps people, and I will remain in this career for the rest of my life because I believe in what I do... i'm not saying Pearl Jam needs to dedicate the rest of their career to the LGBT civil rights issue, as you would like to make it to be with your extreme examples, but it just so happens that they are playing a concert in a state that has passed a terrible discriminatory law, so they are in a position to take action if its still on the books in June... we are talking about cancelling 1 headlining appearance, not canceling a career as you would like to make it out to be
using your "logic" people in the other 49 states should not have given a rats ass when Rosa Parks sat on the front of the bus... or using your "logic" the rest of the civil rights movement in every other city and state should have folded up shop after the march from Selma to Montgomery... maybe the first lunch counter sit-in would have been enough? why show solidarity?
maybe them cancelling Raleigh made you feel all warm and fuzzy about your favorite band inside and you think they played their part... that's fine.... but anybody thinking this fight starts and ends in the state of North Carolina is mistaken... pearl jam decided to be part of the fight, which is fine, but now you have to see the fight through the 12 rounds it is scheduled for...
21st century political action = sending a tweet and moving on
You can't expect the band take a stand on every single issue every single time. If that were the case, they would never play a single show. They have every night to act when they want, how they want. I'm not calling it a "liberal" or a "conservative" thing, just an idiotic thing to expect the band to cancel every single show in every state with a law they don't agree with just because they did it in NC. I think you're missing the point entirely from those who supported the NC cancellation -- it wasn't about supporting some so-called hypocritical decision to cancel there and not in other places, it was was about supporting the band in their decision to protest in whatever form, and at whatever time, they so choose. We may be fans that enable them to become rich and famous, but under no circumstances should that allow us to determine how they go about with their personal and political decisions.
this is the same issue...
I never said it wasn't the same issue. It's a different show, a different state, a different law on the same issue. What don't you get about that?
Read their statement on why they cancelled and tell me why it doesn't apply to TN.
I've read their statement on why they cancelled in NC. It doesn't apply to TN because it was a statement about how they chose to protest in NC. Again, if, say, you donate money to a cause and explain why that cause is important to you, are you thenceforth obligated to donate money to every single group that is fighting for that same cause because you've made a statement explaining why cause is important to you?
Post edited by walkunafraid on
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
that's the problem with todays society, they think by sending 1 tweet or filling out a petition is all they need to do to bring change and they move on the next day... North Carolina was not the start of this issue and it will not be the end of this issue... just canceling 1 concert in North Carolina did not all of the sudden make the LGBT community whole, so to speak, or end the struggle... women's suffrage and the black civil rights battle took place across the entire country for years, the civil rights movement had to fight in every corner of the south for YEARS, not just a random Wednesday in Raleigh North Carolina...
you cant be neutral on a moving train...
By your logic, if you give a homeless family a couple dollars one time, you better give every homeless family you ever come across the same amount, otherwise your action was pointless. By your logic, if you donate to an Animal Rights group, you better donate to every single Animal Rights group, or else you should have never donated to any at all. By your logic, if you stand up for an issue you care about in one place, you better spend all of your time and money standing up for it in every place, otherwise your protest is invalid.
If the world actually followed your logic, no important fights for change would ever take place because it's far too much to ask for anybody to do everything, everywhere and all the time for a cause that he/she supports.
That doesn't negate the impact that a single action makes. If you think that Pearl Jam's decision to cancel in North Carolina had no impact on the movement as a whole, do a Google News search for "Pearl Jam North Carolina" and explain how 900 articles on the topic inspired absolutely no awareness of discussion across the nation.
you are making extreme examples to fit your agenda...
I support LGBT rights, and everyone else's civil rights, 24/7 365 days of the year no matter what state/country I am in... so yes, you should be consistent if you believe in an issue... I have chosen a career that helps people, and I will remain in this career for the rest of my life because I believe in what I do... i'm not saying Pearl Jam needs to dedicate the rest of their career to the LGBT civil rights issue, as you would like to make it to be with your extreme examples, but it just so happens that they are playing a concert in a state that has passed a terrible discriminatory law, so they are in a position to take action if its still on the books in June... we are talking about cancelling 1 headlining appearance, not canceling a career as you would like to make it out to be
using your "logic" people in the other 49 states should not have given a rats ass when Rosa Parks sat on the front of the bus... or using your "logic" the rest of the civil rights movement in every other city and state should have folded up shop after the march from Selma to Montgomery... maybe the first lunch counter sit-in would have been enough? why show solidarity?
maybe them cancelling Raleigh made you feel all warm and fuzzy about your favorite band inside and you think they played their part... that's fine.... but anybody thinking this fight starts and ends in the state of North Carolina is mistaken... pearl jam decided to be part of the fight, which is fine, but now you have to see the fight through the 12 rounds it is scheduled for...
21st century political action = sending a tweet and moving on
Either you completely misunderstand my logic, or you completely misunderstand yours. Maybe both. Because you have this ass-backwards.
By YOUR logic, folks who participated in the bus boycott or the march from Selma to Montgomery or any other event in the Civil Rights movement were hypocrites if they didn't participate in every single event that followed. By YOUR logic, taking place in that march but not the March on Washington rendered a person's first march pointless because they chose to protest in other ways in different situations.
By MY logic, taking part in the bus boycott or the march or any other event in the movement was meaningful and impactful even if the participant couldn't (or chose not to) participate in every such protest that followed. By MY logic, people shouldn't be told by others that one form of protest is right and another wrong. By MY logic, everyone is entitled to contribute to a cause they believe in when and how they choose, and any action to help support a cause one is fighting more is meaningful and worthwhile in its own right.
Post edited by walkunafraid on
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
you are making extreme examples to fit your agenda...
I support LGBT rights, and everyone else's civil rights, 24/7 365 days of the year no matter what state/country I am in... so yes, you should be consistent if you believe in an issue...
Then it's fair to ask, what have you done to stand up for the rights of LGBT and everyone else whose rights you support?
Post edited by walkunafraid on
Everything has chains...Absolutely nothing's changed. - PJ
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
Pearl Jam was the main reason I bought a ticket to Bonnaroo and while I understand the point that would be made by cancelling and I completely disagree with the law, cancelling would mean PJ would never be asked to play another festival ever again. I know some of you would probably like that but regardless, Bonnaroo is a larger platform than a regular arena show like Raleigh and I hope that Ed just takes some time to address the issue and encourage other artists to take a stand against the law with them. Honestly I'm trying to find reasons they won't cancel given their recent actions in NC
Philly 10/21/13
Seattle 12/06/13
"No Code" 10/17/14
Pearl Jam was the main reason I bought a ticket to Bonnaroo and while I understand the point that would be made by cancelling and I completely disagree with the law, cancelling would mean PJ would never be asked to play another festival ever again. I know some of you would probably like that but regardless, Bonnaroo is a larger platform than a regular arena show like Raleigh and I hope that Ed just takes some time to address the issue and encourage other artists to take a stand against the law with them. Honestly I'm trying to find reasons they won't cancel given their recent actions in NC
I don't think they will cancel.... although pulling out of Bonnaroo would probably generate 10x the headlines that the Raleigh cancellation did. I think they have gotten their message out there at this point. I just hope when the NC law is struck down, they come back and play a make up show for the fans that were only able to attend that show and missed out on seeing them.
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
What "precedent" was set? They took a stand on one issue. Why do they have to take every stand now?
The stand is against discrimination, which both laws basically legalize. I see it as exactly the same.
It might be the same. It's their stand to take. It's their prerogative to be inconsistent, consistent, active or silent. This sudden expectation that because they took one stand, they must now take all stands (lest they be hypocrites) is ridiculous. If you draw the logic out, it essentially supports apathy always. (so the maxim would go: "if you act once, you must act always. If you act once and not always, then you're a hypocrite and shouldn't act at all.")
People are hypocritical all the time and progress is often inconsistently sought and fought for. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do something sometimes. The world is too complex to demand complete consistency.
They cancelled a show. It sucked for a lot of fans. It was their choice to make.
Move on already.
This. EXACTLY this. We can't stand up for everything all of the time, but don't let it lead to apathy. I hope the show goes on despite the fucked circumstances. Does anyone think we would be talking about all of these issues as much as we are if they didn't cancel the NC show? A speech from the stage wouldn't have had this much impact. We are talking and hopefully thinking as well.
1991- Hollywood Palladium, California with Temple of the Dog, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains -RIP Magazine Show Oct. 6th 1992- Lollapalooza, Irvine, California Nothing since then. I suck. 2016- Fenway Park, Boston - Both glorious nights 2022- Oakland Night 2
the point is that canceling or a speech from the stage did nothing. it raised a little awareness on an issue that has been everywhere since it passed. huge companies have taken jobs and money out of NC and we'll start to see the same in TN and it did nothing in NC to actually change the law. The courts will overturn the law and it will have nothing to do with canceled rock concerts.
they should have played in NC and they should play in TN.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
why should a boycott to support LGBT rights have to abide by state borders? NC residents should be punished because of their jackass governor, but Tennessee shouldn't? the LGBT community in North Carolina is worth supporting, but those in Tennessee are not?
and i'm not just talking about liberal rock bands boycotting, im talking about the much larger boycott that is taking place that they became a part of... I think the boycott should spread to every state that passes these heinous laws... but maybe you guys think the struggle is over because PJ pulled the plug on 1 show? lol
I love how everybody's tune changes when it is the mighty Music & Arts Festival Bonnaroo
pearl jam canceled... they got my attention... I am fully aware of the issue and support it... so I want to see this band stick through the entire fight, just not round 1 in North Carolina
when people see other states getting boycotted, perhaps the next state/governor will be hesitant to pass such laws... this is how this shit works folks
do you really want change, or do you just want to grandstand to feel good about yourself?
On one hand, "people treat the concert like life and death", but on the other they think so much of the concert that canceling it could change a law. Which one is it? Is the concert important or not?
Liberals on this board told us pissed off Raleigh ticket holders: - Pearl Jam is a political band. You shouldn't be surprised. - You shouldn't travel to see Pearl Jam with the expectation that they will play, especially in the south. - I'm proud of the band for taking a stand.
Now, just days later a terrible law in TN gets passed, and every thing is: - They can't cancel Bonnarroo. Too many fans and contractual reasons. - They can't take a stand every time. - Give it time.
Huge hypocrisy from the liberal fan base here. They sure loved sticking it to the pissed of Raleigh ticket holders from their soap box, but my how their tune has changed just days later.
What "precedent" was set? They took a stand on one issue. Why do they have to take every stand now?
The stand is against discrimination, which both laws basically legalize. I see it as exactly the same.
It might be the same. It's their stand to take. It's their prerogative to be inconsistent, consistent, active or silent. This sudden expectation that because they took one stand, they must now take all stands (lest they be hypocrites) is ridiculous. If you draw the logic out, it essentially supports apathy always. (so the maxim would go: "if you act once, you must act always. If you act once and not always, then you're a hypocrite and shouldn't act at all.")
People are hypocritical all the time and progress is often inconsistently sought and fought for. That doesn't mean we shouldn't do something sometimes. The world is too complex to demand complete consistency.
They cancelled a show. It sucked for a lot of fans. It was their choice to make.
Move on already.
Vant, this is said so well. Thanks for taking the time to put together such a great response!
serious question here my good friend...
im pretty sure you supported the cancelation of Raleigh (which is totally fine).... you work in the mental health field, and you think they shouldn't take a stand in Tennessee? this strikes right at the heart of what you do for a living, and from what I can tell you really enjoy what you do and believe in it
could you imagine a LGBT person being turned away for mental health treatment simply because of their sexuality? well, that's exactly what this law allows brother
why should a boycott to support LGBT rights have to abide by state borders? NC residents should be punished because of their jackass governor, but Tennessee shouldn't? the LGBT community in North Carolina is worth supporting, but those in Tennessee are not?
and i'm not just talking about liberal rock bands boycotting, im talking about the much larger boycott that is taking place that they became a part of... I think the boycott to spread to every state that passes these heinous laws... but maybe you guys think the struggle is over because PJ pulled the plug on 1 show? lol
I love how everybody's tune changes when it is the mighty Music & Arts Festival Bonnaroo
pearl jam canceled... they got my attention... I am now fully aware of the issue and support it... so I want to see this band stick through the entire fight, just not round 1 in North Carolina
when people see other states getting boycotted, perhaps the next state/governor will be hesitant to pass such laws... this is how this shit works folks
do you really want change, or do you just want to grandstand to feel good about yourself?
i honestly wonder if pj and other bands that canceled or didn't cancel took this possibility into account. everyone knew NC wouldn't be the last state to pass this shit. i'm guessing some of the bands that didn't cancel were worried about having to cancel multiple shows. then you really start having to worry about lost money.
This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
I've given this some thought. PJ took as stand against a state for a discriminatory law against the LGBT community. The Tennessee law supports therapists who discriminate against the LGBT community. The thing about this particular law that makes it a more complicated issue - and I don't say this in the context of what PJ does - is that it specifically involved therapists. Mental health professionals whose job it is to help their clients deal with personal issues. So I'm just wondering, how could a therapist who discriminates against LGBT help members of that community deal with personal issues? This isn't the same as a baker who doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding or a restaurateur who is offended by the very presence of a lesbian in his establishment. A therapist who discriminates against them doesn't seem qualified to treat them IMO. They can't be forced to not discriminate against them if there were a law forcing them to treat them... So I'm lead to wonder if this law doesn't more protect patients rather than the therapists, especially since it sounds like the law requires those who won't do it to refer the clients to someone who will. That isn't why the legislation came about, I realize. But that, to me, seems like the ultimate result.
That said, it is really just a coincidence that this actually protects the clients from inadequate therapy. The principle behind the law is still discriminatory. Although not on behalf of the government itself, as is the case in NC. The discrimination is on behalf of therapists. That does separate this legislation from what's happening in NC.
However, it is still legislation based on discrimination against the LGBT community. And since PJ is supposedly taking a stand against exactly that, I actually think they SHOULD cancel 'Roo. All of these arguments about how they should cancel this, that, and the other thing just because there happens to be some controversial issue are completely ridiculous, because they aren't the fight that PJ claimed to be fighting (that includes issues outside of the USA - I think they have a right to limit the fight to their own nation, where the Constitution claims that we're all equal). But in the case of TN, that IS the fight that PJ claims to be fighting. PJ can in fact afford to actually boycott all states with these kinds of laws that discriminate against the LGBT. So yes, it will be hypocritical of them to go ahead with that show. With an asterisk, since the law, while bigoted, does in fact happen to protect the LGBT community from getting shoddy therapy from therapists who are literally incapable of offering them decent counseling.
PS - I don't think they will cancel Roo... And I won't have a hissy fit about how hypocritical it is. The band's going to do what they think is right. That's their right. I support their stands, and I support them choosing how far they want to take any stand or statement they want to make.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Oh, also, boycott is not the only form of protest the band is now allowed to take. They did it for NC because there was a movement that they wanted to join. Perhaps a different kind of movement will grow in TN. Perhaps they think of a new tactic. One boycott (that I think was a good decision) doesn't bind PJ to boycotts forever. They have never been a one trick pony with anything, so I don't see why they should be when it comes to their political statements either. What might have an effect in one state may not have an effect in another state. That is logical and reasonable.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Comments
this issue is MUCH bigger than just North Carolina folks...
1st - they played a set list for actual PJ fans, not the casual fans, as it was an awesome set list that only the fans that actually follow the band would appreciate - If you don't believe me go check out some Jazz Fest forums.
2nd - they used the platform to help raise more awareness to Team Gleason, in fact I could believe that they only even played this show as a favor to him
3rd - they ended the show almost 20 minutes before the curfew
Vant posted it best earlier though I figured I would weigh in - also - I had 10C tickets for Raleigh and fully support their decision to cancel that show.
Atlanta 2012
Wrigley 2013
Charlotte 2013
Seattle 2013
Memphis 2014
Greenville (VS.) 2016
Columbia 2016
New Orleans 2016
Fenway I 2016
Fenway II 2016
Wrigley I 2016
Wrigley II 2016
2007 Lollapalooza Eddie was on stage blasting BP and even made up a song "Don't Go To BP" or something like that
I wonder if they realize Shell now owns BP... and they were standing on a stage sponsored by Shell/BP, the same company they were berating and trying to boycott 9 years ago...
and when they play Bonnaroo in June, they will be standing on a stage in a state that allows people to be denied basic human services because of their sexual orientation
If the world actually followed your logic, no important fights for change would ever take place because it's far too much to ask for anybody to do everything, everywhere and all the time for a cause that he/she supports.
That doesn't negate the impact that a single action makes. If you think that Pearl Jam's decision to cancel in North Carolina had no impact on the movement as a whole, do a Google News search for "Pearl Jam North Carolina" and explain how 900 articles on the topic inspired absolutely no awareness or discussion across the nation.
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
Like it or not... he's got a point.
I think it was poor to cancel given their brutal timing bearing the most significance from my perspective, but I also think the window for venting about it on these boards has shut (and this thread is most certainly venting).
I support LGBT rights, and everyone else's civil rights, 24/7 365 days of the year no matter what state/country I am in... so yes, you should be consistent if you believe in an issue... I have chosen a career that helps people, and I will remain in this career for the rest of my life because I believe in what I do... i'm not saying Pearl Jam needs to dedicate the rest of their career to the LGBT civil rights issue, as you would like to make it to be with your extreme examples, but it just so happens that they are playing a concert in a state that has passed a terrible discriminatory law, so they are in a position to take action if its still on the books in June... we are talking about cancelling 1 headlining appearance, not canceling a career as you would like to make it out to be
using your "logic" people in the other 49 states should not have given a rats ass when Rosa Parks sat on the front of the bus... or using your "logic" the rest of the civil rights movement in every other city and state should have folded up shop after the march from Selma to Montgomery... maybe the first lunch counter sit-in would have been enough? why show solidarity?
maybe them cancelling Raleigh made you feel all warm and fuzzy about your favorite band inside and you think they played their part... that's fine.... but anybody thinking this fight starts and ends in the state of North Carolina is mistaken... pearl jam decided to be part of the fight, which is fine, but now you have to see the fight through the 12 rounds it is scheduled for...
21st century political action = sending a tweet and moving on
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
By YOUR logic, folks who participated in the bus boycott or the march from Selma to Montgomery or any other event in the Civil Rights movement were hypocrites if they didn't participate in every single event that followed. By YOUR logic, taking place in that march but not the March on Washington rendered a person's first march pointless because they chose to protest in other ways in different situations.
By MY logic, taking part in the bus boycott or the march or any other event in the movement was meaningful and impactful even if the participant couldn't (or chose not to) participate in every such protest that followed. By MY logic, people shouldn't be told by others that one form of protest is right and another wrong. By MY logic, everyone is entitled to contribute to a cause they believe in when and how they choose, and any action to help support a cause one is fighting more is meaningful and worthwhile in its own right.
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
“The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.” - Albert Camus
Honestly I'm trying to find reasons they won't cancel given their recent actions in NC
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
This. EXACTLY this. We can't stand up for everything all of the time, but don't let it lead to apathy. I hope the show goes on despite the fucked circumstances. Does anyone think we would be talking about all of these issues as much as we are if they didn't cancel the NC show? A speech from the stage wouldn't have had this much impact. We are talking and hopefully thinking as well.
1992- Lollapalooza, Irvine, California
Nothing since then. I suck.2016- Fenway Park, Boston - Both glorious nights
2022- Oakland Night 2
they should have played in NC and they should play in TN.
and i'm not just talking about liberal rock bands boycotting, im talking about the much larger boycott that is taking place that they became a part of... I think the boycott should spread to every state that passes these heinous laws... but maybe you guys think the struggle is over because PJ pulled the plug on 1 show? lol
I love how everybody's tune changes when it is the mighty Music & Arts Festival Bonnaroo
pearl jam canceled... they got my attention... I am fully aware of the issue and support it... so I want to see this band stick through the entire fight, just not round 1 in North Carolina
when people see other states getting boycotted, perhaps the next state/governor will be hesitant to pass such laws... this is how this shit works folks
do you really want change, or do you just want to grandstand to feel good about yourself?
im pretty sure you supported the cancelation of Raleigh (which is totally fine).... you work in the mental health field, and you think they shouldn't take a stand in Tennessee? this strikes right at the heart of what you do for a living, and from what I can tell you really enjoy what you do and believe in it
could you imagine a LGBT person being turned away for mental health treatment simply because of their sexuality? well, that's exactly what this law allows brother
That said, it is really just a coincidence that this actually protects the clients from inadequate therapy. The principle behind the law is still discriminatory. Although not on behalf of the government itself, as is the case in NC. The discrimination is on behalf of therapists. That does separate this legislation from what's happening in NC.
However, it is still legislation based on discrimination against the LGBT community. And since PJ is supposedly taking a stand against exactly that, I actually think they SHOULD cancel 'Roo. All of these arguments about how they should cancel this, that, and the other thing just because there happens to be some controversial issue are completely ridiculous, because they aren't the fight that PJ claimed to be fighting (that includes issues outside of the USA - I think they have a right to limit the fight to their own nation, where the Constitution claims that we're all equal). But in the case of TN, that IS the fight that PJ claims to be fighting. PJ can in fact afford to actually boycott all states with these kinds of laws that discriminate against the LGBT. So yes, it will be hypocritical of them to go ahead with that show. With an asterisk, since the law, while bigoted, does in fact happen to protect the LGBT community from getting shoddy therapy from therapists who are literally incapable of offering them decent counseling.
PS - I don't think they will cancel Roo... And I won't have a hissy fit about how hypocritical it is. The band's going to do what they think is right. That's their right. I support their stands, and I support them choosing how far they want to take any stand or statement they want to make.