Kufala says that they need to use CD-R's to keep the cost down for the fans. Kufala has been doing PJ bootlegs since 2008 and they have been 16.99/ea since 2008.
The Gorge boxset came out a year before that in 2007 and had 3 shows in it with a total of 7 discs.
3 shows from Kufala @ 16.98/ea = $50.94.
3 shows in Gorge boxset with silver pressed CD's = $35
Hmmmmm :?
It had a much larger run, it's available at retail. Economies of scale and all that...
Runs don't matter when you can burn on demand. We're not talking limited editions when it comes to Kufala.
We're comparing regular Kufala burn on demand with Gorge pressed. Why is the Gorge set cheaper? Because it was pressed in a larger run. Kufala burns on demand, so it doesn't get any cheaper the more they produce. With pressed CDs, I presume there's a larger setup cost at the start but cheaper per unit charges, so the Gorge set is cheaper by virtue of having a larger run.
It had a much larger run, it's available at retail. Economies of scale and all that...
Runs don't matter when you can burn on demand. We're not talking limited editions when it comes to Kufala.
We're comparing regular Kufala burn on demand with Gorge pressed. Why is the Gorge set cheaper? Because it was pressed in a larger run. Kufala burns on demand, so it doesn't get any cheaper the more they produce. With pressed CDs, I presume there's a larger setup cost at the start but cheaper per unit charges, so the Gorge set is cheaper by virtue of having a larger run.
Every time I've bought CD-Rs online, the more you buy, the cheaper they get. So, the more Kufala buys, the cheaper they are to produce. Same thing.
I work in an archives and we burn stuff to archival gold discs because the industry is not confident in the life span of regular cdrs.That being said working in a government archives we are concerned about preserving stuff for 50 to 100 years and beyond.
We're comparing regular Kufala burn on demand with Gorge pressed. Why is the Gorge set cheaper? Because it was pressed in a larger run. Kufala burns on demand, so it doesn't get any cheaper the more they produce. With pressed CDs, I presume there's a larger setup cost at the start but cheaper per unit charges, so the Gorge set is cheaper by virtue of having a larger run.
Every time I've bought CD-Rs online, the more you buy, the cheaper they get. So, the more Kufala buys, the cheaper they are to produce. Same thing.
I think you're missing the point. The issue was why Kufala's burn to order boots cost more than the Gorge boxset when CD-Rs are meant to be cheaper than pressed. I was giving a reason.
If CD-Rs were really cheaper than pressed regardless of quantity, wouldn't all retail CDs be CD-R?
We're comparing regular Kufala burn on demand with Gorge pressed. Why is the Gorge set cheaper? Because it was pressed in a larger run. Kufala burns on demand, so it doesn't get any cheaper the more they produce. With pressed CDs, I presume there's a larger setup cost at the start but cheaper per unit charges, so the Gorge set is cheaper by virtue of having a larger run.
Every time I've bought CD-Rs online, the more you buy, the cheaper they get. So, the more Kufala buys, the cheaper they are to produce. Same thing.
I think you're missing the point. The issue was why Kufala's burn to order boots cost more than the Gorge boxset when CD-Rs are meant to be cheaper than pressed. I was giving a reason.
If CD-Rs were really cheaper than pressed regardless of quantity, wouldn't all retail CDs be CD-R?
You are completely right. I am missing the point. I can sit here and assume I know everything about the Kufala model, but I don't. For example, I have no idea what their overhead costs are (cost of hard drive storage, computer maintenance, burner replacement costs, etc.). I can sit here and claim that the Kufala model is roughly equivalent to the Rhino model (the record company that put out Live at The Gorge), but I really have no idea. I am making assumptions based on very little information.
But, my question to you is aren't you doing the same thing? Unless you work for Rhino or another record company or CD pressing plant? If not, aren't you making assumptions based on very little information? It is generally assumed that record companies make CDs for pennies on the dollar, but where does this assumption come from? Is it based on fact?
I work in an archives and we burn stuff to archival gold discs because the industry is not confident in the life span of regular cdrs.That being said working in a government archives we are concerned about preserving stuff for 50 to 100 years and beyond.
I find it fascinating that the Library of Congress only archives recordings on vinyl. I also know that the FBI stores their digital evidence for court cases on tape and not on optical media. If the government won't trust optical media, that's all you need to know.
You are completely right. I am missing the point. I can sit here and assume I know everything about the Kufala model, but I don't. For example, I have no idea what their overhead costs are (cost of hard drive storage, computer maintenance, burner replacement costs, etc.). I can sit here and claim that the Kufala model is roughly equivalent to the Rhino model (the record company that put out Live at The Gorge), but I really have no idea. I am making assumptions based on very little information.
But, my question to you is aren't you doing the same thing? Unless you work for Rhino or another record company or CD pressing plant? If not, aren't you making assumptions based on very little information? It is generally assumed that record companies make CDs for pennies on the dollar, but where does this assumption come from? Is it based on fact?
Not at all. My conclusion came from a logical inference from the evidence provided. I provided one possible reason why the Gorge boxset was cheaper than the equivalent number of Kufala recordings. Your point completely sidesteps the issue. That's all I'm saying.
You said "Runs don't matter when you can burn on demand". You were right. Runs don't matter when you can burn on demand, hence the conclusion that cost per unit is relatively inelastic with respect to run size for Kufala (that was your assumption!).
However, one of the items we were comparing was pressed, therefore your point is irrelevant in that context - runs do matter. You'd agree that the number of CDs pressed affects the price per unit, right? Obviously it costs more per CD to press 10 CDs, compared to 1,000,000 CDs. Therefore, the larger run of the Gorge boxset (based on the fact that it had wide retail availability) contributes to it's lower cost.
Admittedly, I could've tried to find out the relative numbers of units of each sold to back up my hypothesis, but I didn't really feel that was necessary. Sorry about that, Chief.
You are completely right. I am missing the point. I can sit here and assume I know everything about the Kufala model, but I don't. For example, I have no idea what their overhead costs are (cost of hard drive storage, computer maintenance, burner replacement costs, etc.). I can sit here and claim that the Kufala model is roughly equivalent to the Rhino model (the record company that put out Live at The Gorge), but I really have no idea. I am making assumptions based on very little information.
But, my question to you is aren't you doing the same thing? Unless you work for Rhino or another record company or CD pressing plant? If not, aren't you making assumptions based on very little information? It is generally assumed that record companies make CDs for pennies on the dollar, but where does this assumption come from? Is it based on fact?
Not at all. My conclusion came from a logical inference from the evidence provided. I provided one possible reason why the Gorge boxset was cheaper than the equivalent number of Kufala recordings. Your point completely sidesteps the issue. That's all I'm saying.
You said "Runs don't matter when you can burn on demand". You were right. Runs don't matter when you can burn on demand, hence the conclusion that cost per unit is relatively inelastic with respect to run size for Kufala (that was your assumption!).
However, one of the items we were comparing was pressed, therefore your point is irrelevant in that context - runs do matter. You'd agree that the number of CDs pressed affects the price per unit, right? Obviously it costs more per CD to press 10 CDs, compared to 1,000,000 CDs. Therefore, the larger run of the Gorge boxset (based on the fact that it had wide retail availability) contributes to it's lower cost.
Admittedly, I could've tried to find out the relative numbers of units of each sold to back up my hypothesis, but I didn't really feel that was necessary. Sorry about that, Chief.
It's all good, chief. I understand what you're saying. This is why I stayed away from economics in college. It gives me a headache.
It's all good, chief. I understand what you're saying. This is why I stayed away from economics in college. It gives me a headache.
There's also another possibility, and that's that PJ and Kufala are conspiring together to rip us all off!
Hah! I think that's the conclusion I was headed toward when I realized I had little proof. I should know better than to argue about something I know very little about. I was beginning to argue just for the sake of arguing, and that's never good.
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Every time I've bought CD-Rs online, the more you buy, the cheaper they get. So, the more Kufala buys, the cheaper they are to produce. Same thing.
If CD-Rs were really cheaper than pressed regardless of quantity, wouldn't all retail CDs be CD-R?
You are completely right. I am missing the point. I can sit here and assume I know everything about the Kufala model, but I don't. For example, I have no idea what their overhead costs are (cost of hard drive storage, computer maintenance, burner replacement costs, etc.). I can sit here and claim that the Kufala model is roughly equivalent to the Rhino model (the record company that put out Live at The Gorge), but I really have no idea. I am making assumptions based on very little information.
But, my question to you is aren't you doing the same thing? Unless you work for Rhino or another record company or CD pressing plant? If not, aren't you making assumptions based on very little information? It is generally assumed that record companies make CDs for pennies on the dollar, but where does this assumption come from? Is it based on fact?
I find it fascinating that the Library of Congress only archives recordings on vinyl. I also know that the FBI stores their digital evidence for court cases on tape and not on optical media. If the government won't trust optical media, that's all you need to know.
You said "Runs don't matter when you can burn on demand". You were right. Runs don't matter when you can burn on demand, hence the conclusion that cost per unit is relatively inelastic with respect to run size for Kufala (that was your assumption!).
However, one of the items we were comparing was pressed, therefore your point is irrelevant in that context - runs do matter. You'd agree that the number of CDs pressed affects the price per unit, right? Obviously it costs more per CD to press 10 CDs, compared to 1,000,000 CDs. Therefore, the larger run of the Gorge boxset (based on the fact that it had wide retail availability) contributes to it's lower cost.
Admittedly, I could've tried to find out the relative numbers of units of each sold to back up my hypothesis, but I didn't really feel that was necessary. Sorry about that, Chief.
It's all good, chief. I understand what you're saying. This is why I stayed away from economics in college. It gives me a headache.
Hah! I think that's the conclusion I was headed toward when I realized I had little proof. I should know better than to argue about something I know very little about. I was beginning to argue just for the sake of arguing, and that's never good.