Just back from 'NIN-cation' of shows in Camden/Holmdel/Wantagh. Mind-blowing. And I met Trent and the rest of the band (for 1 minute, along with probably 100 other donors) as part of the people who donated for Eric de la Cruz, AND got to watch the soundcheck. A dream come true. The music, as always was alternately face-melting, jaw dropping and awe inspiring.
R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
Just back from 'NIN-cation' of shows in Camden/Holmdel/Wantagh. Mind-blowing. And I met Trent and the rest of the band (for 1 minute, along with probably 100 other donors) as part of the people who donated for Eric de la Cruz, AND got to watch the soundcheck. A dream come true. The music, as always was alternately face-melting, jaw dropping and awe inspiring.
very cool. i am sooooo hoping they do a show or 2 in cali when they get back from asia....
Just back from 'NIN-cation' of shows in Camden/Holmdel/Wantagh. Mind-blowing. And I met Trent and the rest of the band (for 1 minute, along with probably 100 other donors) as part of the people who donated for Eric de la Cruz, AND got to watch the soundcheck. A dream come true. The music, as always was alternately face-melting, jaw dropping and awe inspiring.
"If you want a friend, feed any animal." - JA
"Don't let it get you down, you know, still give your love, just give it away...I love singin' that part." - EV
Hi! I did the $300M&G on Holmdel though, not in Wantagh. I saw the first page of your great pics - I'll check out the rest when I get home (I'm in Albany from seeing Ed last night). In general I"m against people yelling things out during quiet songs, but the guy who yelled 'don't leave us' during Hurt in Wantagh, I was feeling it. (And Perry needed to stop calling the place New York City hahaha)
R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
Hi! I did the $300M&G on Holmdel though, not in Wantagh. I saw the first page of your great pics - I'll check out the rest when I get home (I'm in Albany from seeing Ed last night). In general I"m against people yelling things out during quiet songs, but the guy who yelled 'don't leave us' during Hurt in Wantagh, I was feeling it. (And Perry needed to stop calling the place New York City hahaha)
And stop saying that it was "historic"
Why oh why were they opening for Jane's? I went to JB, such a great show and so weird that they didn't close
I love that NIN opened for JA. It added a nice sense of closure for live NIN. They got their big break opening for JA at Lolla, and now NIN can go out opening for a reformed JA.
Jone's Beach was amazing. Simply Amazing.
As for the first poster. What albums to buy? Well, The Slip and Ghosts Vol 1 are free on nin.com or on torrent. (TR put them there.)
But to get the full enjoyment of this tour, I would suggest The Downward Spiral and Fragile. Both great albums and both differ from each other nicely.
I love that NIN opened for JA. It added a nice sense of closure for live NIN. They got their big break opening for JA at Lolla, and now NIN can go out opening for a reformed JA.
Jone's Beach was amazing. Simply Amazing.
As for the first poster. What albums to buy? Well, The Slip and Ghosts Vol 1 are free on nin.com or on torrent. (TR put them there.)
But to get the full enjoyment of this tour, I would suggest The Downward Spiral and Fragile. Both great albums and both differ from each other nicely.
Have fun.
NIN was amazing, completely agree
Perry disappointed and I'm a Janes fan, had never seen them live although I kinda did when I saw Navarro as a special guest with Porno for Pyros at Roseland. That show was epic
When you havn't played in forever and most of the crowd came to see NIN, they shouldn't have waited to play a hit or a song as good as one of their hits until their set was 1/2 over
Just my 2 cents
I was looking forward to seeing both bands and Janes disappointed until nearly the end
NIN was amazing, completely agree
Perry disappointed and I'm a Janes fan, had never seen them live although I kinda did when I saw Navarro as a special guest with Porno for Pyros at Roseland. That show was epic When you havn't played in forever and most of the crowd came to see NIN, they shouldn't have waited to play a hit or a song as good as one of their hits until their set was 1/2 over
Just my 2 cents
I was looking forward to seeing both bands and Janes disappointed until nearly the end
A 13 minute version of it! Freaking amazing. It's how I found out my wife's camera has a 10 min record limit set on video...
Right out of the gate was 3 days and whores. Summertime rolls, had a dad, pigs in zen. Stop, Been Caught Stealing and Jane Says generally closed out the shows.
i saw 4 NIN/JA shows. for 3 i was on the rail. EPIC.
i was just commenting on the post that JA waited until 1/2 way through the show to play a hit or something as good as a hit.....when they opened with THREE DAYS....arguably their BEST song!
I saw them last week in Pittsburgh. What a great show. Not really into NIN but they sounded really good. JA was great, they left out some good songs but thats how concerts go. Perry's voice has not changed in 20+ years. Great Show
Light green to green, dark green, brown..
Every life is falling down
Brown to black, it's coming back
Dies to be part of the ground
Seed to seedling, root to stem
I'm a huge NIN fan in fact my NIN collection is slightly bigger if anything than my PJ collection.
NIN studio albums can sometimes be very different from live shows. I'd suggest picking up "and all that could have been" with the bonus disc still if you can get it, (the closest thing your likely to hear to acoustic Nine Inch Nails and some of the most beautiful music I have ever heard not by PJ) although I believe it's fairly rare these days.
As others have said the slip is a great starting point but I'd grab with teeth and the downward spiral as well. If you like like heavier end of things then the broken EP is essential and you almost certain to hear at least a couple of tracks from it at the show (wish, Gave up)
If you get into these then the fragile is a masterpiece IMHO but very inaccessible and not a good starting point. Year Zero falls into the same category. there are also remix albums for most releases if your into that sort of thing although IMHO they're patchy
There are also a lot of bootlegs floating around the internet(it's OK Trent actively encourages the idea feel free to PM me if you want some and can't find them) and for that matter he probably wouldn't be to upset if you downloaded whatever you want rather than gave interscope your hard earned moneys.
i saw 4 NIN/JA shows. for 3 i was on the rail. EPIC.
i was just commenting on the post that JA waited until 1/2 way through the show to play a hit or something as good as a hit.....when they opened with THREE DAYS....arguably their BEST song!
I'm not going to argue and not into picking a fight, i'll defer to you guys im wrong on opening song, but not on my main point that best was middle to the end
If you felt their set, then good for you, i didn't and was seriously disappointed
i saw 4 NIN/JA shows. for 3 i was on the rail. EPIC.
i was just commenting on the post that JA waited until 1/2 way through the show to play a hit or something as good as a hit.....when they opened with THREE DAYS....arguably their BEST song!
I'm not going to argue and not into picking a fight, i'll defer to you guys im wrong on opening song, but not on my main point that best was middle to the end
If you felt their set, then good for you, i didn't and was seriously disappointed
Don't back down dude, you're right. Maybe Three Days is a good song, but unless you're already an album-owning JA fan, you're only going to know Jane Says and Been Caught Stealing. That means they a casual fan that's just curious about this band doesn't recognize a single tune until halfway through the set.
i saw 4 NIN/JA shows. for 3 i was on the rail. EPIC.
i was just commenting on the post that JA waited until 1/2 way through the show to play a hit or something as good as a hit.....when they opened with THREE DAYS....arguably their BEST song!
I'm not going to argue and not into picking a fight, i'll defer to you guys im wrong on opening song, but not on my main point that best was middle to the end
If you felt their set, then good for you, i didn't and was seriously disappointed
Don't back down dude, you're right. Maybe Three Days is a good song, but unless you're already an album-owning JA fan, you're only going to know Jane Says and Been Caught Stealing. That means they a casual fan that's just curious about this band doesn't recognize a single tune until halfway through the set.
When a person describes themself as a FAN, i assume that means an "album-owning" fan.
Don't back down dude, you're right. Maybe Three Days is a good song, but unless you're already an album-owning JA fan, you're only going to know Jane Says and Been Caught Stealing. That means they a casual fan that's just curious about this band doesn't recognize a single tune until halfway through the set.
When a person describes themself as a FAN, i assume that means an "album-owning" fan.
Her comment said she was a fan, but most other people were not and were mainly there for NIN and the result was that a huge chunk of the crowd was pretty indifferent to JA for the entire first half. She has a point. An indifferent crowd can kill a good show, just as much as a rabid crowd can elevate one to the next level. PJ are masters of this... they work a well known song into every set very early on to get the crowd into it. Makes them a lot more receptive to the lesser known tunes. Her criticism is pretty logical I'd say.
Don't back down dude, you're right. Maybe Three Days is a good song, but unless you're already an album-owning JA fan, you're only going to know Jane Says and Been Caught Stealing. That means they a casual fan that's just curious about this band doesn't recognize a single tune until halfway through the set.
When a person describes themself as a FAN, i assume that means an "album-owning" fan.
Her comment said she was a fan, but most other people were not and were mainly there for NIN and the result was that a huge chunk of the crowd was pretty indifferent to JA for the entire first half. She has a point. An indifferent crowd can kill a good show, just as much as a rabid crowd can elevate one to the next level. PJ are masters of this... they work a well known song into every set very early on to get the crowd into it. Makes them a lot more receptive to the lesser known tunes. Her criticism is pretty logical I'd say.
Thanks for the support Soulsinging
It was kind of a bummer, i was advising people around me to stick around, telling them how amazing Janes would be
They ended up leaving along with alot of others like you said pretty early on
And for record, I am an album owning fan, albeit its been quite a while since I've listened to any of them
Its a rock show, why do I need to study up for it?
I've gone to quite a few shows where songs i wasn't familiar with either blew me away live and/or far surpassed the album version (pretty much why i'm a live music junkie, otherwise, why spend the $$, esp these days)
Holy shit... just got the deluxe edition of TDS and it's fucking mind-blowing! THIS is how you remaster and remix an album!
If only TVT or whoever could pull their heads out of their asses long enough to let Trent give PHM this kind of treatment!
I have to admit I was a bit skeptical when I read your other post in this thread saying Pretty Hate Machine could use a remaster because usually remasters just blast everything loud, but then I read this post and looked into the deluxe edition a bit and from the sounds of it they actually did it so the dynamics are intact and even better!
Needless to say you have me a bit excited now and I plan on picking this up.
Holy shit... just got the deluxe edition of TDS and it's fucking mind-blowing! THIS is how you remaster and remix an album!
If only TVT or whoever could pull their heads out of their asses long enough to let Trent give PHM this kind of treatment!
I have to admit I was a bit skeptical when I read your other post in this thread saying Pretty Hate Machine could use a remaster because usually remasters just blast everything loud, but then I read this post and looked into the deluxe edition a bit and from the sounds of it they actually did it so the dynamics are intact and even better!
Needless to say you have me a bit excited now and I plan on picking this up.
Yeah, I've heard that criticism of a lot of remasters. Led Zep's 'Mothership' was weirdly loud, but somehow sounds better than the other remasters actually. But a lot of CD's manufactures in the 80s or early 90s sound like shit. They didn't know how to move something from analog to CD for shit. So yeah, there's a problem with loudness wars, but even with that most of the remasters trump those crappy early CDs.
Anyway, TDS definitely does not fall for that. It's ridiculously good. I popped it into my car with extreme skepticism (it was a total impulse buy) and was blown away. PHM needs that treatment, and since Trent handled it himself he clearly put a lot of care into making sure it didn't lose anything.
Holy shit... just got the deluxe edition of TDS and it's fucking mind-blowing! THIS is how you remaster and remix an album!
If only TVT or whoever could pull their heads out of their asses long enough to let Trent give PHM this kind of treatment!
I have to admit I was a bit skeptical when I read your other post in this thread saying Pretty Hate Machine could use a remaster because usually remasters just blast everything loud, but then I read this post and looked into the deluxe edition a bit and from the sounds of it they actually did it so the dynamics are intact and even better!
Needless to say you have me a bit excited now and I plan on picking this up.
Yeah, I've heard that criticism of a lot of remasters. Led Zep's 'Mothership' was weirdly loud, but somehow sounds better than the other remasters actually. But a lot of CD's manufactures in the 80s or early 90s sound like shit. They didn't know how to move something from analog to CD for shit. So yeah, there's a problem with loudness wars, but even with that most of the remasters trump those crappy early CDs.
Anyway, TDS definitely does not fall for that. It's ridiculously good. I popped it into my car with extreme skepticism (it was a total impulse buy) and was blown away. PHM needs that treatment, and since Trent handled it himself he clearly put a lot of care into making sure it didn't lose anything.
Okay, so I picked it up yesterday and I have to say it does sound really good on first listen. I don't have a SACD system so I am missing out on that and I still need to find my copy of the original version to better compare them but it does sound rather good. I just need to "investigate" it a bit more before I decide which one I like better.
I'm not so sure Trent would be interested in remastering PHM like he did for this delux version. I'm afraid if he did remaster it, it would end up in the vein of his most recent works: overcompressed and lacking fidelity. I really hope that I would be wrong if he was finally allowed to revisit it.
There was an interview out there where he essentially spoke about how he was at one point surprised at how most people were listening to music these days (This was shortly after he came back into the spot light after being gone so long I think). Anyway, he noticed that most people don't really listen to music as a focal point anymore and sort of just use it as background noise and when they do listen to it it isn't being played on a quality system. So, I think because of that and, if I remember correctly, because TDS delux and SACD in general didn't do very well in the market he started to abandon true high quality audio.
So he sort of started tailoring his newer releases to fit that mold a bit more. Can't say that I blame him, but it disappoints me that his newer releases in my opinion just don't have the depth and dynamics that his older releases (and now this deluxe version of TDS) do.
I do see some promise though as he has started offering high quality downloads of his music, but from what I understand those high quality downloads aren't mixed/mastered any different than the normal download; meaning they are still overcompressed and not as dynamic as they could be.
^^^^^ There has been some talk of him remastering The Fragile though. He was asked at one of the charity meet and greets recently, and it sounds like it will happen eventually. Wouldn't THAT be amazing.
R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
^^^^^ There has been some talk of him remastering The Fragile though. He was asked at one of the charity meet and greets recently, and it sounds like it will happen eventually. Wouldn't THAT be amazing.
It could be...I always thought that album sounded amazing the way it was though.
Okay, so I picked it up yesterday and I have to say it does sound really good on first listen. I don't have a SACD system so I am missing out on that and I still need to find my copy of the original version to better compare them but it does sound rather good. I just need to "investigate" it a bit more before I decide which one I like better.
I'm not so sure Trent would be interested in remastering PHM like he did for this delux version. I'm afraid if he did remaster it, it would end up in the vein of his most recent works: overcompressed and lacking fidelity. I really hope that I would be wrong if he was finally allowed to revisit it.
There was an interview out there where he essentially spoke about how he was at one point surprised at how most people were listening to music these days (This was shortly after he came back into the spot light after being gone so long I think). Anyway, he noticed that most people don't really listen to music as a focal point anymore and sort of just use it as background noise and when they do listen to it it isn't being played on a quality system. So, I think because of that and, if I remember correctly, because TDS delux and SACD in general didn't do very well in the market he started to abandon true high quality audio.
So he sort of started tailoring his newer releases to fit that mold a bit more. Can't say that I blame him, but it disappoints me that his newer releases in my opinion just don't have the depth and dynamics that his older releases (and now this deluxe version of TDS) do.
I do see some promise though as he has started offering high quality downloads of his music, but from what I understand those high quality downloads aren't mixed/mastered any different than the normal download; meaning they are still overcompressed and not as dynamic as they could be.
I don't know if I buy the whole dynamics argument. People (generally vinyl) addicts always whine about lost dynamics. I know PJ's last album sounded like shit and I understand the concept of ear fatigue and overcompression, but some people act like any remastering automatically and inherently destroys dynamics, which I think is a load of crap. A poor transfer from tape/vinyl to CD is going to be worse for the sound than remaster things so they are clearer and better defined. The LZ remasters from the mid-90s hardly seem to destroy dynamics.
As to PHM, Trent wanted to do a deluxe remaster of it, but the label that owned the rights said they wouldn't pay him a dime for it so he told them to piss off. Whoever owns that album is a fucking moron... they let it go out of print and they refuse to give him legit compensation for a remaster that could make them serious money. It's a beautiful example of why record companies should die.
I don't know if I buy the whole dynamics argument. People (generally vinyl) addicts always whine about lost dynamics. I know PJ's last album sounded like shit and I understand the concept of ear fatigue and overcompression, but some people act like any remastering automatically and inherently destroys dynamics, which I think is a load of crap. A poor transfer from tape/vinyl to CD is going to be worse for the sound than remaster things so they are clearer and better defined. The LZ remasters from the mid-90s hardly seem to destroy dynamics.
I think some people automatically react the way they do because many times recent remastering has ruined the original product. For example, Dave Mustaine "personally" redid his catalogue to "update it" to today's sound and in the process he ruined the dynamics those songs had in my opinion. I'm not so sure that the problem was just a transfer from tape to CD in this case because the originals of some of those CDs sound pretty good (i.e. Countdown to Extinction and Youthanasia)
I do agree with you 100% on the LZ remasters from the mid-90s though, I love those and I also agree that poor transfer from tape/vinyl to CD is a potential area for things to get messed up and sometimes the mastering is unjustly blamed because of this. So, yeah, you are right that remastering doesn't inherently destroy dynamics and if done right it can actually improve them in some cases.
As to PHM, Trent wanted to do a deluxe remaster of it, but the label that owned the rights said they wouldn't pay him a dime for it so he told them to piss off. Whoever owns that album is a fucking moron... they let it go out of print and they refuse to give him legit compensation for a remaster that could make them serious money. It's a beautiful example of why record companies should die.
That PHM info is pretty interesting. Usually record companies jump on a chance to make more money but apparently no one ever spelled it out to them like you just did in the above.
Comments
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
very cool. i am sooooo hoping they do a show or 2 in cali when they get back from asia....
Awesome Jane...I must have missed you....I did Boston thru Wantagh, ending with the $1000 M&G....FB photos....http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2 ... d814e6e418
"Don't let it get you down, you know, still give your love, just give it away...I love singin' that part." - EV
Hi! I did the $300M&G on Holmdel though, not in Wantagh. I saw the first page of your great pics - I'll check out the rest when I get home (I'm in Albany from seeing Ed last night). In general I"m against people yelling things out during quiet songs, but the guy who yelled 'don't leave us' during Hurt in Wantagh, I was feeling it. (And Perry needed to stop calling the place New York City hahaha)
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
And stop saying that it was "historic"
Why oh why were they opening for Jane's? I went to JB, such a great show and so weird that they didn't close
'00 12 shows / '03 4 shows / '06 6 shows
'08 3 shows / '09 5 shows / '10 6 shows
Jone's Beach was amazing. Simply Amazing.
As for the first poster. What albums to buy? Well, The Slip and Ghosts Vol 1 are free on nin.com or on torrent. (TR put them there.)
But to get the full enjoyment of this tour, I would suggest The Downward Spiral and Fragile. Both great albums and both differ from each other nicely.
Have fun.
NIN was amazing, completely agree
Perry disappointed and I'm a Janes fan, had never seen them live although I kinda did when I saw Navarro as a special guest with Porno for Pyros at Roseland. That show was epic
When you havn't played in forever and most of the crowd came to see NIN, they shouldn't have waited to play a hit or a song as good as one of their hits until their set was 1/2 over
Just my 2 cents
I was looking forward to seeing both bands and Janes disappointed until nearly the end
'00 12 shows / '03 4 shows / '06 6 shows
'08 3 shows / '09 5 shows / '10 6 shows
They OPENED with Three Days, right???
A 13 minute version of it! Freaking amazing. It's how I found out my wife's camera has a 10 min record limit set on video...
Right out of the gate was 3 days and whores. Summertime rolls, had a dad, pigs in zen. Stop, Been Caught Stealing and Jane Says generally closed out the shows.
JA definitely put on a kick ass show.
i was just commenting on the post that JA waited until 1/2 way through the show to play a hit or something as good as a hit.....when they opened with THREE DAYS....arguably their BEST song!
Every life is falling down
Brown to black, it's coming back
Dies to be part of the ground
Seed to seedling, root to stem
NIN studio albums can sometimes be very different from live shows. I'd suggest picking up "and all that could have been" with the bonus disc still if you can get it, (the closest thing your likely to hear to acoustic Nine Inch Nails and some of the most beautiful music I have ever heard not by PJ) although I believe it's fairly rare these days.
As others have said the slip is a great starting point but I'd grab with teeth and the downward spiral as well. If you like like heavier end of things then the broken EP is essential and you almost certain to hear at least a couple of tracks from it at the show (wish, Gave up)
If you get into these then the fragile is a masterpiece IMHO but very inaccessible and not a good starting point. Year Zero falls into the same category. there are also remix albums for most releases if your into that sort of thing although IMHO they're patchy
There are also a lot of bootlegs floating around the internet(it's OK Trent actively encourages the idea feel free to PM me if you want some and can't find them) and for that matter he probably wouldn't be to upset if you downloaded whatever you want rather than gave interscope your hard earned moneys.
I'm not going to argue and not into picking a fight, i'll defer to you guys im wrong on opening song, but not on my main point that best was middle to the end
If you felt their set, then good for you, i didn't and was seriously disappointed
'00 12 shows / '03 4 shows / '06 6 shows
'08 3 shows / '09 5 shows / '10 6 shows
Don't back down dude, you're right. Maybe Three Days is a good song, but unless you're already an album-owning JA fan, you're only going to know Jane Says and Been Caught Stealing. That means they a casual fan that's just curious about this band doesn't recognize a single tune until halfway through the set.
When a person describes themself as a FAN, i assume that means an "album-owning" fan.
Her comment said she was a fan, but most other people were not and were mainly there for NIN and the result was that a huge chunk of the crowd was pretty indifferent to JA for the entire first half. She has a point. An indifferent crowd can kill a good show, just as much as a rabid crowd can elevate one to the next level. PJ are masters of this... they work a well known song into every set very early on to get the crowd into it. Makes them a lot more receptive to the lesser known tunes. Her criticism is pretty logical I'd say.
Thanks for the support Soulsinging
It was kind of a bummer, i was advising people around me to stick around, telling them how amazing Janes would be
They ended up leaving along with alot of others like you said pretty early on
And for record, I am an album owning fan, albeit its been quite a while since I've listened to any of them
Its a rock show, why do I need to study up for it?
I've gone to quite a few shows where songs i wasn't familiar with either blew me away live and/or far surpassed the album version (pretty much why i'm a live music junkie, otherwise, why spend the $$, esp these days)
'00 12 shows / '03 4 shows / '06 6 shows
'08 3 shows / '09 5 shows / '10 6 shows
I have to admit I was a bit skeptical when I read your other post in this thread saying Pretty Hate Machine could use a remaster because usually remasters just blast everything loud, but then I read this post and looked into the deluxe edition a bit and from the sounds of it they actually did it so the dynamics are intact and even better!
Needless to say you have me a bit excited now and I plan on picking this up.
Yeah, I've heard that criticism of a lot of remasters. Led Zep's 'Mothership' was weirdly loud, but somehow sounds better than the other remasters actually. But a lot of CD's manufactures in the 80s or early 90s sound like shit. They didn't know how to move something from analog to CD for shit. So yeah, there's a problem with loudness wars, but even with that most of the remasters trump those crappy early CDs.
Anyway, TDS definitely does not fall for that. It's ridiculously good. I popped it into my car with extreme skepticism (it was a total impulse buy) and was blown away. PHM needs that treatment, and since Trent handled it himself he clearly put a lot of care into making sure it didn't lose anything.
Okay, so I picked it up yesterday and I have to say it does sound really good on first listen. I don't have a SACD system so I am missing out on that and I still need to find my copy of the original version to better compare them but it does sound rather good. I just need to "investigate" it a bit more before I decide which one I like better.
I'm not so sure Trent would be interested in remastering PHM like he did for this delux version. I'm afraid if he did remaster it, it would end up in the vein of his most recent works: overcompressed and lacking fidelity. I really hope that I would be wrong if he was finally allowed to revisit it.
There was an interview out there where he essentially spoke about how he was at one point surprised at how most people were listening to music these days (This was shortly after he came back into the spot light after being gone so long I think). Anyway, he noticed that most people don't really listen to music as a focal point anymore and sort of just use it as background noise and when they do listen to it it isn't being played on a quality system. So, I think because of that and, if I remember correctly, because TDS delux and SACD in general didn't do very well in the market he started to abandon true high quality audio.
So he sort of started tailoring his newer releases to fit that mold a bit more. Can't say that I blame him, but it disappoints me that his newer releases in my opinion just don't have the depth and dynamics that his older releases (and now this deluxe version of TDS) do.
I do see some promise though as he has started offering high quality downloads of his music, but from what I understand those high quality downloads aren't mixed/mastered any different than the normal download; meaning they are still overcompressed and not as dynamic as they could be.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
It could be...I always thought that album sounded amazing the way it was though.
I don't know if I buy the whole dynamics argument. People (generally vinyl) addicts always whine about lost dynamics. I know PJ's last album sounded like shit and I understand the concept of ear fatigue and overcompression, but some people act like any remastering automatically and inherently destroys dynamics, which I think is a load of crap. A poor transfer from tape/vinyl to CD is going to be worse for the sound than remaster things so they are clearer and better defined. The LZ remasters from the mid-90s hardly seem to destroy dynamics.
As to PHM, Trent wanted to do a deluxe remaster of it, but the label that owned the rights said they wouldn't pay him a dime for it so he told them to piss off. Whoever owns that album is a fucking moron... they let it go out of print and they refuse to give him legit compensation for a remaster that could make them serious money. It's a beautiful example of why record companies should die.
I think some people automatically react the way they do because many times recent remastering has ruined the original product. For example, Dave Mustaine "personally" redid his catalogue to "update it" to today's sound and in the process he ruined the dynamics those songs had in my opinion. I'm not so sure that the problem was just a transfer from tape to CD in this case because the originals of some of those CDs sound pretty good (i.e. Countdown to Extinction and Youthanasia)
I do agree with you 100% on the LZ remasters from the mid-90s though, I love those and I also agree that poor transfer from tape/vinyl to CD is a potential area for things to get messed up and sometimes the mastering is unjustly blamed because of this. So, yeah, you are right that remastering doesn't inherently destroy dynamics and if done right it can actually improve them in some cases.
That PHM info is pretty interesting. Usually record companies jump on a chance to make more money but apparently no one ever spelled it out to them like you just did in the above.
Listened to the slip right now and it sucks.
Industrial music is mega lame for me.
Even though im going to go see them with Janes Addiction. Don't quite know who planned that one.
The fact that you said "mega lame" makes you more lame than industrial music
Um, TR planned it out of respect to JA. But why are you going if you think NIN music sucks? Have you seen them live before.
*****
I kept meaning to buy TDS remastered - thanks for the discussion that reminded me!
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008