SCALPERS! ALREADY! How can this happen!

HughFreakingDillon

Saltzy23 said:

People in general just need to understand that the world doesn't give a flying shit how passionate you are about 'X', or that you've waited your whole life to see 'X', or that you 'deserve to be able to see 'X'.

Humans have come up with the fairest way possible to decide who gets what. We call it money.

People may not like that, and people may say that it shouldn't be the deciding factor but that is just idealistic crazy talk.

Here is what matters and what determines what goods and services cost. It's on page 1 of every macro-econ book ever written.

Supply=Demand

Period. End of conversation. If you want to live in a capitalist country and enjoy its benefits these are the downsides of it.

With all that said, anyone that sells 10C tickets for over face should be horse and quartered, because this place should be a sanctuary from the evils of the world when it comes to people looking to sell tickets and make a buck. I think on that point we all seem to agree.

I never spoke about passion or entitlement. I have no idea where that came into play. I am talking from experience. I don't buy scalped tickets. if it's sold out, i don't go. pearl jam included. it sucks, but I simply can't afford scalping prices. or won't afford, really.

I understand fully how the world works. you can rationalize it all you want, but there is a reason it's illegal.

the point of all of this is, you are buying season tickets KNOWING you can't afford them, KNOWING you'll be able to profit off them later to offset the costs. that's scalping, plain and simple.

your last paragraph goes against every single other thing you've said in this thread; it's comical, if not downright bizarre. you basically admit that what you are doing with your Mets tickets is 'evil'.

Saltzy23

HughFreakingDillon said:

Saltzy23 said:

People in general just need to understand that the world doesn't give a flying shit how passionate you are about 'X', or that you've waited your whole life to see 'X', or that you 'deserve to be able to see 'X'.

Humans have come up with the fairest way possible to decide who gets what. We call it money.

People may not like that, and people may say that it shouldn't be the deciding factor but that is just idealistic crazy talk.

Here is what matters and what determines what goods and services cost. It's on page 1 of every macro-econ book ever written.

Supply=Demand

Period. End of conversation. If you want to live in a capitalist country and enjoy its benefits these are the downsides of it.

With all that said, anyone that sells 10C tickets for over face should be horse and quartered, because this place should be a sanctuary from the evils of the world when it comes to people looking to sell tickets and make a buck. I think on that point we all seem to agree.

I never spoke about passion or entitlement. I have no idea where that came into play. I am talking from experience. I don't buy scalped tickets. if it's sold out, i don't go. pearl jam included. it sucks, but I simply can't afford scalping prices. or won't afford, really.

I understand fully how the world works. you can rationalize it all you want, but there is a reason it's illegal.

the point of all of this is, you are buying season tickets KNOWING you can't afford them, KNOWING you'll be able to profit off them later to offset the costs. that's scalping, plain and simple.

your last paragraph goes against every single other thing you've said in this thread; it's comical, if not downright bizarre. you basically admit that what you are doing with your Mets tickets is 'evil'.

OK, it's scalping. Who's arguing with you?

Also, it is very, very, very not illegal. Again, my Mets online account links directly to StubHub. My season tickets come with a damn pamphlet on how to load up your unwanted tickets there. The team promotes it sideways.

It's kinda funny, I never hear season ticket holders complain when they have to sell $50 tickets for $20 when the team sucks or it's shitty out or something. Nor do I ever hear people say how bad they feel buying those tickets on StubHub when they know they are cheaper than going to the box office as if there no yin to that yang. As though 'Hey, this is great! I got a $50 ticket for $20 for the game today!' is not simply this exact same principle, but inversed.

Oh, but when those same people have to pay over face, (even though they have not paid a freaking dime in advance and expect to get into sold out events for face value) the people selling are greedy fuckpigs.

How anyone is capable of objectively, analytically studying this and still think it's unfair there are secondary ticket markets out there is honestly, truly beyond my ability to comprehend.

HughFreakingDillon

Saltzy23 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Saltzy23 said:

People in general just need to understand that the world doesn't give a flying shit how passionate you are about 'X', or that you've waited your whole life to see 'X', or that you 'deserve to be able to see 'X'.

Humans have come up with the fairest way possible to decide who gets what. We call it money.

People may not like that, and people may say that it shouldn't be the deciding factor but that is just idealistic crazy talk.

Here is what matters and what determines what goods and services cost. It's on page 1 of every macro-econ book ever written.

Supply=Demand

Period. End of conversation. If you want to live in a capitalist country and enjoy its benefits these are the downsides of it.

With all that said, anyone that sells 10C tickets for over face should be horse and quartered, because this place should be a sanctuary from the evils of the world when it comes to people looking to sell tickets and make a buck. I think on that point we all seem to agree.

I never spoke about passion or entitlement. I have no idea where that came into play. I am talking from experience. I don't buy scalped tickets. if it's sold out, i don't go. pearl jam included. it sucks, but I simply can't afford scalping prices. or won't afford, really.

I understand fully how the world works. you can rationalize it all you want, but there is a reason it's illegal.

the point of all of this is, you are buying season tickets KNOWING you can't afford them, KNOWING you'll be able to profit off them later to offset the costs. that's scalping, plain and simple.

your last paragraph goes against every single other thing you've said in this thread; it's comical, if not downright bizarre. you basically admit that what you are doing with your Mets tickets is 'evil'.

OK, it's scalping. Who's arguing with you?

Also, it is very, very, very not illegal. Again, my Mets online account links directly to StubHub. My season tickets come with a damn pamphlet on how to load up your unwanted tickets there. The team promotes it sideways.

It's kinda funny, I never hear season ticket holders complain when they have to sell $50 tickets for $20 when the team sucks or it's shitty out or something. Nor do I ever hear people say how bad they feel buying those tickets on StubHub when they know they are cheaper than going to the box office as if there no yin to that yang. As though 'Hey, this is great! I got a $50 ticket for $20 for the game today!' is not simply this exact same principle, but inversed.

Oh, but when those same people have to pay over face, (even though they have not paid a freaking dime in advance and expect to get into sold out events for face value) the people selling are greedy fuckpigs.

How anyone is capable of objectively, analytically studying this and still think it's unfair there are secondary ticket markets out there is honestly, truly beyond my ability to comprehend.

who's arguing with me? you are. scalping is illegal where I'm from. for good reason. and for many events depending on type and which state in the US.

I can objectively and analytically study it and think it's unfair because I have no horse in the race. I get tickets to the shows/events I want to go to, but if they sell out, I don't go. simple as that, and I don't bitch and moan about it not being fair. I simply think it is. But you won't ever see me checking out the secondary market and getting all pissy about it. it is what it is.

you are the one saying it's ok, all the while because you do it and profit from it. that's the furthest from objectivity my friend.

buying a ticket for lower than face is not an issue for me. that is the risk you take as a consumer when you buy tickets to an event and may not be able to attend. I've had to sell for lower than face and/or eat the ticket. big fucking deal. it's my risk buying it. but it shouldn't be my risk NOT BEING ABLE TO BUY IT and then having NO CHOICE but to buy it later from some guy who wants to pad his concert account. it's not a yin and yang at all.

goldenegg

P-Town-P-Jam-Fan said:

goldenegg said:

P-Town-P-Jam-Fan said:

The same way people speculatively sell stocks

That's not what's happening.

These are specific seats available for purchase, throughout the entire venue. StubHub gets tickets in advance and sells them at ridiculous prices. This happens for every show.

that was Toronto only, and those were purchased by Toronto Maple Leaf season ticket holders.

It's not just Pearl Jam and it's not just ACC. You can get tickets on StubHub for nearly any major show happening in the city, well before tickets are available through TM, including venues which don't have those types of memberships.

Saltzy23

HughFreakingDillon said:

Saltzy23 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Saltzy23 said:

People in general just need to understand that the world doesn't give a flying shit how passionate you are about 'X', or that you've waited your whole life to see 'X', or that you 'deserve to be able to see 'X'.

Humans have come up with the fairest way possible to decide who gets what. We call it money.

People may not like that, and people may say that it shouldn't be the deciding factor but that is just idealistic crazy talk.

Here is what matters and what determines what goods and services cost. It's on page 1 of every macro-econ book ever written.

Supply=Demand

Period. End of conversation. If you want to live in a capitalist country and enjoy its benefits these are the downsides of it.

With all that said, anyone that sells 10C tickets for over face should be horse and quartered, because this place should be a sanctuary from the evils of the world when it comes to people looking to sell tickets and make a buck. I think on that point we all seem to agree.

I never spoke about passion or entitlement. I have no idea where that came into play. I am talking from experience. I don't buy scalped tickets. if it's sold out, i don't go. pearl jam included. it sucks, but I simply can't afford scalping prices. or won't afford, really.

I understand fully how the world works. you can rationalize it all you want, but there is a reason it's illegal.

the point of all of this is, you are buying season tickets KNOWING you can't afford them, KNOWING you'll be able to profit off them later to offset the costs. that's scalping, plain and simple.

your last paragraph goes against every single other thing you've said in this thread; it's comical, if not downright bizarre. you basically admit that what you are doing with your Mets tickets is 'evil'.

OK, it's scalping. Who's arguing with you?

Also, it is very, very, very not illegal. Again, my Mets online account links directly to StubHub. My season tickets come with a damn pamphlet on how to load up your unwanted tickets there. The team promotes it sideways.

It's kinda funny, I never hear season ticket holders complain when they have to sell $50 tickets for $20 when the team sucks or it's shitty out or something. Nor do I ever hear people say how bad they feel buying those tickets on StubHub when they know they are cheaper than going to the box office as if there no yin to that yang. As though 'Hey, this is great! I got a $50 ticket for $20 for the game today!' is not simply this exact same principle, but inversed.

Oh, but when those same people have to pay over face, (even though they have not paid a freaking dime in advance and expect to get into sold out events for face value) the people selling are greedy fuckpigs.

How anyone is capable of objectively, analytically studying this and still think it's unfair there are secondary ticket markets out there is honestly, truly beyond my ability to comprehend.

who's arguing with me? you are. scalping is illegal where I'm from. for good reason. and for many events depending on type and which state in the US.

I can objectively and analytically study it and think it's unfair because I have no horse in the race. I get tickets to the shows/events I want to go to, but if they sell out, I don't go. simple as that, and I don't bitch and moan about it not being fair. I simply think it is. But you won't ever see me checking out the secondary market and getting all pissy about it. it is what it is.

you are the one saying it's ok, all the while because you do it and profit from it. that's the furthest from objectivity my friend.

buying a ticket for lower than face is not an issue for me. that is the risk you take as a consumer when you buy tickets to an event and may not be able to attend. I've had to sell for lower than face and/or eat the ticket. big fucking deal. it's my risk buying it. but it shouldn't be my risk NOT BEING ABLE TO BUY IT and then having NO CHOICE but to buy it later from some guy who wants to pad his concert account. it's not a yin and yang at all.

Are we talking about individual concert tickets, or season tickets to a team? There is a huge difference.

For shit like today's TM sale where we are all 'equal' and no one has paid in advance for anything and it's just a free for all you kind of have a point, and I'm sure there are plenty of people that logged in this morning, couldn't give a single fuck about PJ, and only bought tickets to resell, yeah it kinda sucks. I can see if for what it is though, which is easy peasy margins for someone that understands that every ticket is gonna sell for like 2x's what they paid. Welcome to America.

As far as season tickets though, I wanna guarantee that if my team makes the playoffs that I have access to every game, in a decent seat, and where I don't have to deal with all the lunacy of presales and lotteries. The only way to ensure that is to buy season tickets. It's an 81 game purchase I have no way of knowing how is gonna work out. If your argument is 'Sorry, if you wanna take that risk but you need to understand that it's only fair to everyone else that you only sell your tickets at or under face value, because it's really not fair to all the other people that haven't paid a cent in advance and will also want to go to those games, have a decent seat, and not have to deal with the bullshit' then I'm gonna say you're wrong.

We're not talking about a $100 concert ticket. It's an investment, and one that I know in advance I am gonna lose on like 9 times out of 10. To criticize me for taking advantage of that 1 time to recoup as much of my costs as possible and calling me greedy is simply not fair.

deagator3

HughFreakingDillon said:

Saltzy23 said:

who's arguing with me? you are. scalping is illegal where I'm from. for good reason. and for many events depending on type and which state in the US.

I can objectively and analytically study it and think it's unfair because I have no horse in the race. I get tickets to the shows/events I want to go to, but if they sell out, I don't go. simple as that, and I don't bitch and moan about it not being fair. I simply think it is. But you won't ever see me checking out the secondary market and getting all pissy about it. it is what it is.

you are the one saying it's ok, all the while because you do it and profit from it. that's the furthest from objectivity my friend.

buying a ticket for lower than face is not an issue for me. that is the risk you take as a consumer when you buy tickets to an event and may not be able to attend. I've had to sell for lower than face and/or eat the ticket. big fucking deal. it's my risk buying it. but it shouldn't be my risk NOT BEING ABLE TO BUY IT and then having NO CHOICE but to buy it later from some guy who wants to pad his concert account. it's not a yin and yang at all.

So let me get this straight....if its sold out you won't go and won't check the secondary market. Well, the initial face value is very important in the secondary market - the secondary market for PJ is more apparent right now because of the relatively low cost of ticket prices set by the band.

So, if Pearl Jam set the face value for a show at $200 and you were readily able to get tickets you'd buy em. But if the same tickets for a sold out show were on the secondary market for $110 with a face value of $100 you would forego seeing your favorite band based on a stance against scalping?

RKCNDY

pjalive21 said:

You know how you stop dirty bag scalpers??? don't buy the tickets, especially at $717/ticket...no band...I mean NO BAND is worth that much...I love Pearl Jam but will never spend that kind of money

im all for reasonable scalping to be honest but not for 7 times the market value, but the problem is people buy it and allow it and you can't blame the band one iota

the more empty seats bands start seeing in arenas they may do something about it, BUT if they are getting their money why would they...just a thought

I'm trying to find the article, but the bands CAN control the ticket market by implementing stuff like NIN does. But they don't, why?

*band wants to make money.
*band needs to sell out every venue on tour.
*band wants guarantee to 'sell out' every venue.
*ticketing agency guarantees band they can 'sell out' venue (what band wants to play a venue when they don't think they can sell out?)
*band agrees to play venue based on a guarantee of selling out
*venue has ticketing agency sells blocks of tickets to brokers so they can guarantee the band they will 'sell out'.
*ticketing agency/venue gets paid, band gets paid, ticket broker bears all the responsibility of making money and selling tickets.
*ticket broker figures they have to sell a certain percentage of the tickets to guarantee a profit, and figures out inflated price to cover losses.
*band makes bonus money on merch-that is if fan can afford any merch after paying ticket scalper prices.

HughFreakingDillon

deagator3 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Saltzy23 said:

who's arguing with me? you are. scalping is illegal where I'm from. for good reason. and for many events depending on type and which state in the US.

I can objectively and analytically study it and think it's unfair because I have no horse in the race. I get tickets to the shows/events I want to go to, but if they sell out, I don't go. simple as that, and I don't bitch and moan about it not being fair. I simply think it is. But you won't ever see me checking out the secondary market and getting all pissy about it. it is what it is.

you are the one saying it's ok, all the while because you do it and profit from it. that's the furthest from objectivity my friend.

buying a ticket for lower than face is not an issue for me. that is the risk you take as a consumer when you buy tickets to an event and may not be able to attend. I've had to sell for lower than face and/or eat the ticket. big fucking deal. it's my risk buying it. but it shouldn't be my risk NOT BEING ABLE TO BUY IT and then having NO CHOICE but to buy it later from some guy who wants to pad his concert account. it's not a yin and yang at all.

So let me get this straight....if its sold out you won't go and won't check the secondary market. Well, the initial face value is very important in the secondary market - the secondary market for PJ is more apparent right now because of the relatively low cost of ticket prices set by the band.

So, if Pearl Jam set the face value for a show at $200 and you were readily able to get tickets you'd buy em. But if the same tickets for a sold out show were on the secondary market for $110 with a face value of $100 you would forego seeing your favorite band based on a stance against scalping?

no one buys a ticket knowing they have no intention to go and hope they lose money. I don't undercut someone who is selling a ticket for face. if they want to sell it for less, that's their prerogitive.

when I say "secondary market", I say stub hub or ticketmaster's other website, whatever it is. I'll check kijiji, and if the price is at or near face or lower, I'll buy them. but if a show is sold out, how often do the tickets sell for lower than face? I'd wager ZERO TIMES.

Free

What does NIN do?

JC102799

Free said:

What does NIN do?

Not much these days

rr165892

Lost In Ohio said:

In addition, legit season ticket holders have access to their own presales. In most cases, the venues can either guarantee their same seats or similar ones.

This is the most common.I know I hold seats at a venue and I can always get extras early.At least hold them.All venues have these relationships.Some season ticket holders then resell.They can sell a few shows they don't want,helps pay the nut on the season seats.But those seats aren't available to TM anyway.

cincybearcat

I'm surprised each time that people seemed surprised by all this ticket stuff. Its the same each time, has been for a long time.

Saltzy23

cincybearcat said:

I'm surprised each time that people seemed surprised by all this ticket stuff. Its the same each time, has been for a long time.

Why accept the way the world works and adapt to it when you can bitch and moan incessantly about it I say!

cincybearcat

I think it sucks....but I don't understand why people are surprised by it anymore. Where have you been to not understand this already?

Free

NIN is basically doing what PJ is doing, reserving a portion of the best tix to club members.

Those of you complaining about why we're complaining about the increasing problems with attaining concert tickets? You are complacent, and complacency is the problem altogether. Taking advantage of the public by TM and the secondary market is what's wrong, but the greedy corps love folks who say nothing, so they can increase their criminal activity.

themrpearljam

this probably has already been said
but I'll say it anyway
I've been dealing with ticketbastard since the early 80s [ im an old music fan ]
and those FUCKERS have always cater to those d bags [scalpers]

Cheo Ramirez

One question : talk with personal represantatives is not available right now on ticketmaster? So thw only alternative is by automatic. So when my order is placed, i only have the number of order and no email? Where in the tm site can i see my order

Thank you, dying here, trying to get tix on the web and dialing from peru

Saltzy23

Cheo Ramirez said:

One question : talk with personal represantatives is not available right now on ticketmaster? So thw only alternative is by automatic. So when my order is placed, i only have the number of order and no email? Where in the tm site can i see my order

Thank you, dying here, trying to get tix on the web and dialing from peru

My Account >View All Orders>Order Details is where I see mine.

eddiec

TM is corrupt. We all know that. New York DA has started an investigation. Hopefully something will change.

Cheo Ramirez

Saltzy23 said:

Cheo Ramirez said:

One question : talk with personal represantatives is not available right now on ticketmaster? So thw only alternative is by automatic. So when my order is placed, i only have the number of order and no email? Where in the tm site can i see my order

Thank you, dying here, trying to get tix on the web and dialing from peru

My Account >View All Orders>Order Details is where I see mine.

i bought it by phone on automatic process and they never ask me for an account, i only have the number of the order