Your opinion about Immigration.

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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,783

    “There we will set our position, which, I repeat, will take into account that we want to have a good neighbor with the United States, but at the same time defending the dignity of Mexico,” he said. “We want to act with great prudence, but at the same time with firmness in the defense of our sovereignty.”

    López Obrador initially responded harshly to Trump’s latest threat, writing in a letter to the U.S. president last week that his “America First” policy was “a fallacy.” But he has since emphasized his interest in maintaining a warm relationship with Trump.

    Trump’s abrupt tariff threat has imperiled prospects for congressional ratification of his new North American trade deal. Roughly two weeks ago, Trump agreed to lift tariffs on steel and aluminum imports from Mexico and Canada, meeting a condition that Senate Republicans had set before they would vote on the proposed U.S.-Mexico-Canada Agreement.

    That trade deal largely preserves the tariff-free trading relations between the United States and its southern neighbor established in the 1994 North American Free Trade Agreement, which Trump routinely disparages as “one of the worst trade deals ever made.”

    As Trump pushes ahead, business leaders and members of his own party are scrambling to head off the imposition of new tariffs that would likely result in retaliatory measures by Mexico targeting American farmers and manufacturers.

    “We are committed to enhancing the U.S.-Mexico economic relationship and favor more trade, not tariffs. Imposing tariffs on Mexico does not address the root causes of migration and jeopardizes our shared economic interests,” the U.S. Chamber of Commerce and its Mexican counterpart, the Business Coordinating Council, said in a joint statement.

    Through April, Mexico has been the largest U.S. trading partner. Last year, when it ranked third behind China and Canada, Mexico shipped almost $350 billion worth of autos, auto parts, industrial machinery and farm products to U.S. customers.

    With little more than 96 hours remaining before the tariffs are scheduled to take effect, businesses across the United States are scrambling to draw up contingency plans.

    “We’re very concerned,” said Adam Briggs, vice president of sales and marketing for Trans-Matic Manufacturing in Holland, Mich. “Businesses crave certainty. When the rules are constantly changing, we have a hard time.”


    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    wow deporting asylum seekers to a third country....sounds familiar. 
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  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,269
    I thought Obama housed them at 5 start retreats.  Maybe someone should tell Trump Obama did similar, then Trump would house them at 5 start retreats...



    Using military bases in this way is not new. In 2014, the Obama Administration placed around 7,700 migrant children on bases in Texas, California and Oklahoma, including Fort Sill. The temporary shelters were shuttered after four months. Last year, the government evaluated several military bases to shelter migrants, but ultimately decided not to use the facilities.

  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 10,448
    A jury in Arizona failed to reach a verdict regarding an activist charged with "conspiracy to transport and harbour migrants", a charge that could have led to a 20 year jail term, for providing water and food to migrants.

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/jun/11/arizona-activist-migrant-water-scott-daniel-warren-verdict
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,783
    edited June 14
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,720
    Maybe the plan is to just let the kids fend for themselves..
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,506
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    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,490
    PJ_Soul said:
    This is a very interesting read.

    Thank you.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,763
    PJ_Soul said:
    This is a very interesting read.

    Thank you.
    Will have to read later. Isn’t there a big difference between round people up from their homes and putting them in a camp to having people come to your border and putting them in a camp?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 11,977
    For all the talk that there are less immigrants coming you would think the infrastructure we had in place would be sufficient to handle all those coming across the border.  Why is there such a strain on the system right now if the problem is supposedly decreasing?
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 20,490
    For all the talk that there are less immigrants coming you would think the infrastructure we had in place would be sufficient to handle all those coming across the border.  Why is there such a strain on the system right now if the problem is supposedly decreasing?
    This problem has been talked about for years but not much care in it.  Now that Trump is President it has become a focal point.

    Change my mind.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,112

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • RoleModelsinBlood31RoleModelsinBlood31 Austin TXPosts: 4,919
    For all the talk that there are less immigrants coming you would think the infrastructure we had in place would be sufficient to handle all those coming across the border.  Why is there such a strain on the system right now if the problem is supposedly decreasing?
    This problem has been talked about for years but not much care in it.  Now that Trump is President it has become a focal point.

    Change my mind.
    Yes and no, we have a lot more folks coming than ever before.  We don’t have enough facilities because the numbers are so much higher than in the past.  It starts with more facilities and more judges- the quicker they can get in front of a judge, the quicker they get released into the country, less time in the cages.

    starts with the govt.  since one side is holding things up, we can’t get more facilities or judges or anything, so it just bottlenecks in the cages.

    i feel for the border towns as much as the immigrants.  They’re being inundated and overrun and have no where to turn since the govt won’t address the needs.
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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,783
    PJ_Soul said:
    This is a very interesting read.

    Thank you.
    Will have to read later. Isn’t there a big difference between round people up from their homes and putting them in a camp to having people come to your border and putting them in a camp?
    Concentration camps are defined by the conditions and practices maintained within the camps, not by where the prisoners came from. But FWIW, once ICE starts these raids that Trump keeps threatening, they'll be throwing people who were rounded up from their homes in them as well.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 20,112
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    This is a very interesting read.

    Thank you.
    Will have to read later. Isn’t there a big difference between round people up from their homes and putting them in a camp to having people come to your border and putting them in a camp?
    Concentration camps are defined by the conditions and practices maintained within the camps, not by where the prisoners came from. But FWIW, once ICE starts these raids that Trump keeps threatening, they'll be throwing people who were rounded up from their homes in them as well.
    Yeah but the people who are being rounded up are here illegally which to me is a big difference.  “We will be going after individuals who have gone through due process, who have received final orders of deportation," he said. "That will include families. Right now we’re talking about that and what it should look like.”
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,269
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    This is a very interesting read.

    Thank you.
    Will have to read later. Isn’t there a big difference between round people up from their homes and putting them in a camp to having people come to your border and putting them in a camp?
    Concentration camps are defined by the conditions and practices maintained within the camps, not by where the prisoners came from. But FWIW, once ICE starts these raids that Trump keeps threatening, they'll be throwing people who were rounded up from their homes in them as well.
    Yeah but the people who are being rounded up are here illegally which to me is a big difference.  “We will be going after individuals who have gone through due process, who have received final orders of deportation," he said. "That will include families. Right now we’re talking about that and what it should look like.”
    Some people would like to see the US do like Canada and put them up in 3-5 star hotels while we have homeless people and many veterans homeless...not to mention many 1st nation reserves are short of needed money...
  • dignindignin Posts: 7,512

    Over 100 migrant children returned to 'horrific' border station

    "There was nobody taking care of these children... they were not being bathed on a regular basis," Prof Warren Binford of Williamette University in Oregon told the BBC after visiting the Clint facility in Texas.

    "Several hundred of the children had been kept in a warehouse that was recently erected on the facility grounds."

    "The cells are overcrowded... there's a lice infestation there, there is an influenza outbreak. Children are being locked up in isolation with no adult supervision, who are very, very ill and they're just lying on the ground on mats."

    Elora Mukherjee, another lawyer who visited the facility, told CBS News: "They were wearing the same dirty clothing they crossed the border with."

    "It is degrading and inhumane and shouldn't be happening in America."

    As stories of substandard conditions in facilities have continued to emerge, some volunteers have tried to donate supplies - only to be turned away by border officials.

    One group told the Texas Tribune they spent $340 (£267) on diapers, wipes, soaps and toys for the Clint facility, but were completely ignored by all the agents on duty.

    Another Clint resident who tried to visit the Clint station told the Tribune: "Knowing what's happening in your community and that you can't give these kids supplies to clean or clothe themselves - it's heartbreaking."


    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-48763323

    Disgusting.
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 6,631
    Maybe his morals and ethics made a stand?

    Acting Customs and Border Protection commissioner to leave as immigration tensions escalate
    https://news.yahoo.com/acting-customs-border-protection-commissioner-171458301.html
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 21,720
    So let me get this straight if I drive up to store with my child in car seat and I run in leaving child in car cops can be called and child services will show up , threatening to take your kid for neglect & endangerment...
    yet we have children sleeping on concrete floors with feces covered clothing , no toothpaste or toothbrush or soap or clean towels and no one can be charged wtf happened to this country!
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 47,783
    edited June 25
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    This is a very interesting read.

    Thank you.
    Will have to read later. Isn’t there a big difference between round people up from their homes and putting them in a camp to having people come to your border and putting them in a camp?
    Concentration camps are defined by the conditions and practices maintained within the camps, not by where the prisoners came from. But FWIW, once ICE starts these raids that Trump keeps threatening, they'll be throwing people who were rounded up from their homes in them as well.
    Yeah but the people who are being rounded up are here illegally which to me is a big difference.  “We will be going after individuals who have gone through due process, who have received final orders of deportation," he said. "That will include families. Right now we’re talking about that and what it should look like.”
    I don't understand how it matters so much to you. These are desperate people, including children, being held in terrible conditions without trial. In any case, if Cincy was asking if the fact that they are people who tried to illegally cross the border affects whether or not these are concentration camps, the answer is no. I am going to assume that you're not suggesting it's okay to hold people in concentration camps because they tried to cross the border. 
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,506
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    This is a very interesting read.

    Thank you.
    Will have to read later. Isn’t there a big difference between round people up from their homes and putting them in a camp to having people come to your border and putting them in a camp?
    Concentration camps are defined by the conditions and practices maintained within the camps, not by where the prisoners came from. But FWIW, once ICE starts these raids that Trump keeps threatening, they'll be throwing people who were rounded up from their homes in them as well.
    Yeah but the people who are being rounded up are here illegally which to me is a big difference.  “We will be going after individuals who have gone through due process, who have received final orders of deportation," he said. "That will include families. Right now we’re talking about that and what it should look like.”
    I don't understand how it matters so much to you. These are desperate people, including children, being held in terrible conditions without trial. In any case, if Cincy was asking if the fact that they are people who tried to illegally cross the border affects whether or not these are concentration camps, the answer is no. I am going to assume that you're not suggesting it's okay to hold people in concentration camps because they tried to cross the border. 
    They’re either rapists, murderers and/or drug dealers or the off-spring of same. Either way, they’re not Mexico’s or Central and South America’s “best.”
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,763
    Interesting read.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/there-are-no-concentration-camps-on-the-border/2019/06/24/0229e886-96bb-11e9-830a-21b9b36b64ad_story.html?utm_term=.f9d3434a0510

    Regardless of the word choice (and I personally wouldn't use concentration camps), it continues ot be an awful situation that apparently no one has any political will to actually solve. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 21,506
    Forwarded by a friend by someone who gets it:

    To the members of the MIT community,

    MIT has flourished, like the United States itself, because it has been a magnet for the world’s finest talent, a global laboratory where people from every culture and background inspire each other and invent the future, together.

    Today, I feel compelled to share my dismay about some circumstances painfully relevant to our fellow MIT community members of Chinese descent. And I believe that because we treasure them as friends and colleagues, their situation and its larger national context should concern us all.

    The situation
    As the US and China have struggled with rising tensions, the US government has raised serious concerns about incidents of alleged academic espionage conducted by individuals through what is widely understood as a systematic effort of the Chinese government to acquire high-tech IP.

    As head of an institute that includes MIT Lincoln Laboratory, I could not take national security more seriously. I am well aware of the risks of academic espionage, and MIT has established prudent policies to protect against such breaches.

    But in managing these risks, we must take great care not to create a toxic atmosphere of unfounded suspicion and fear. Looking at cases across the nation, small numbers of researchers of Chinese background may indeed have acted in bad faith, but they are the exception and very far from the rule. Yet faculty members, post-docs, research staff and students tell me that, in their dealings with government agencies, they now feel unfairly scrutinized, stigmatized and on edge – because of their Chinese ethnicity alone.

    Nothing could be further from – or more corrosive to ­– our community’s collaborative strength and open-hearted ideals. To hear such reports from Chinese and Chinese-American colleagues is heartbreaking. As scholars, teachers, mentors, inventors and entrepreneurs, they have been not only exemplary members of our community but exceptional contributors to American society. I am deeply troubled that they feel themselves repaid with generalized mistrust and disrespect.

    The signal to the world
    For those of us who know firsthand the immense value of MIT’s global community and of the free flow of scientific ideas, it is important to understand the distress of these colleagues as part of an increasingly loud signal the US is sending to the world.

    Protracted visa delays. Harsh rhetoric against most immigrants and a range of other groups, because of religion, race, ethnicity or national origin. Together, such actions and policies have turned the volume all the way up on the message that the US is closing the door – that we no longer seek to be a magnet for the world’s most driven and creative individuals. I believe this message is not consistent with how America has succeeded. I am certain it is not how the Institute has succeeded. And we should expect it to have serious long-term costs for the nation and for MIT.

    For the record, let me say with warmth and enthusiasm to every member of MIT’s intensely global community: We are glad, proud and fortunate to have you with us! To our alumni around the world: We remain one community, united by our shared values and ideals! And to all the rising talent out there: If you are passionate about making a better world, and if you dream of joining our community, we welcome your creativity, we welcome your unstoppable energy and aspiration – and we hope you can find a way to join us.

    * * *

    In May, the world lost a brilliant creative force: architect I.M. Pei, MIT Class of 1940. Raised in Shanghai and Hong Kong, he came to the United States at 17 to seek an education. He left a legacy of iconic buildings from Boston to Paris and China to Washington, DC, as well on our own campus. By his own account, he consciously stayed alive to his Chinese roots all his life. Yet, when he died at the age of 102, the Boston Globe described him as “the most prominent American architect of his generation.”

    Thanks to the inspired American system that also made room for me as an immigrant, all of those facts can be true at the same time.

    As I have discovered through 40 years in academia, the hidden strength of a university is that every fall, it is refreshed by a new tide of students. I am equally convinced that part of the genius of America is that it is continually refreshed by immigration – by the passionate energy, audacity, ingenuity and drive of people hungry for a better life.

    There is certainly room for a wide range of serious positions on the actions necessary to ensure our national security and to manage and improve our nation’s immigration system. But above the noise of the current moment, the signal I believe we should be sending, loud and clear, is that the story of American immigration is essential to understanding how the US became, and remains, optimistic, open-minded, innovative and prosperous – a story of never-ending renewal.

    In a nation like ours, immigration is a kind of oxygen, each fresh wave reenergizing the body as a whole. As a society, when we offer immigrants the gift of opportunity, we receive in return vital fuel for our shared future. I trust that this wisdom will always guide us in the life and work of MIT. And I hope it can continue to guide our nation.

    Sincerely,

    L. Rafael Reif
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  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 3,742
    TRUMP Camps are cruel and even evil. It's clear to me that he likes them that way. They won't deter people since they are trying to escape horrific conditions. 
    "Well, as far as I know, music makes people happy. I know it makes me happy." -- Fats Domino
  • KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere.Posts: 3,742
    Wayfair Workers Walk Out Over Business With Migrant Detention Center
    The online retailer furnished a migrant detention facility for children on the southern border, and its employees are furious.
    Today

    Hundreds of outraged Wayfair employees at the company’s Boston headquarters walked off the job Wednesday to protest the online retailer’s business with a contractor that operates migrant detention centers.

    Workers learned last week that the furniture outlet sold $200,000 worth of bedroom furniture to a government contractor called BCFS for the purpose of outfitting an immigrant detention facility in Carrizo Springs, Texas, reportedly capable of detaining 1,600 migrant children.

    continued at
    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/wayfair-migrant-detention-furniture-donation_n_5d138f9be4b09ad014f95b68



    "Well, as far as I know, music makes people happy. I know it makes me happy." -- Fats Domino
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,763
    Damn those wayfair employees are cruel. No furniture for you! Poor migrant kids 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,866
    Damn those wayfair employees are cruel. No furniture for you! Poor migrant kids 
    Met a few Wayfair employees at an AI conference over the past few days - absurdly fascinating company from a data perspective, and very kind (and brilliant) people. I don't understand the cause for protest though - had Wayfair not delivered this furniture, it'd have been sourced elsewhere. Or, considering the Trump administration, maybe they just wouldn't have equipped the place with furniture at all. 
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  • dignindignin Posts: 7,512
    benjs said:
    Damn those wayfair employees are cruel. No furniture for you! Poor migrant kids 
    Met a few Wayfair employees at an AI conference over the past few days - absurdly fascinating company from a data perspective, and very kind (and brilliant) people. I don't understand the cause for protest though - had Wayfair not delivered this furniture, it'd have been sourced elsewhere. Or, considering the Trump administration, maybe they just wouldn't have equipped the place with furniture at all. 
    That's a pretty poor argument. The Nazis would have just taken their business elsewhere.

    If it was a company I worked for I wouldn't want any part of that travesty either. Plus it brings more attention to this issue, which can only be a good thing.
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 12,763
    dignin said:
    benjs said:
    Damn those wayfair employees are cruel. No furniture for you! Poor migrant kids 
    Met a few Wayfair employees at an AI conference over the past few days - absurdly fascinating company from a data perspective, and very kind (and brilliant) people. I don't understand the cause for protest though - had Wayfair not delivered this furniture, it'd have been sourced elsewhere. Or, considering the Trump administration, maybe they just wouldn't have equipped the place with furniture at all. 
    That's a pretty poor argument. The Nazis would have just taken their business elsewhere.

    If it was a company I worked for I wouldn't want any part of that travesty either. Plus it brings more attention to this issue, which can only be a good thing.
    So your company doesn’t do anything you don’t agree with? 
    hippiemom = goodness
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