I can totally understand why you take the position you do....but I'll still lump the Mets in with the other big spending teams. They are there.
I get why it is happening, just hold the opinion that it is not good for the league.
Also, poor Mets fans should try being a fan of a team who doesn't spend money. At least you have a chance to win consistently if you are run by a good organization. Teams who don't spend need to be amazingly well run (Ray's, As) to be competitive with any level of consistency.
You know what's bad for the sport? Billionaire owners taking in tons of luxury tax money, TV contracts and not caring about winning. Every one of these franchises are worth billions, care about winning. Truly don't understand how this is a Steve Cohen problem and not a problem with every shitty owner in the league
Paying players is good for baseball.
This all sounds good in theory but the fact is plenty of small market teams don't get close to the revenues of the Yankees and other big market teams. The Yankees local TV money dwarfs most other teams. You just can't expect the Baltimore Orioles, Pittsburgh Pirates and Cincinnati Reds to be able to spend for contracts like the Yankees, Mets, Phillies (currently) and Dodgers do because they can't. Let's be honest the luxury tax doesn't hurt those teams even a little bit. That being said the Mets now have more money over the tax than some teams spend at all. That to me is a problem as well. There should be a minimum cap. You should have to spend to a certain low level.
Again why would anyone be a fan of the Pirates, Reds or Orioles other than you grew up with those teams? In today's climate they have barely above a zero percent chance to win a championship let alone a division. I feel bad for those fan bases.
The challenge is those three teams draw 17k a game, there just isn’t the revenue to support MLB. And can’t afford the chicken or egg which came first theory , the bottom line is 17k ain’t enough
Maybe it’s time to cut these teams home games by a quarter or third, and in the cold months, share the franchises with some Caribbean and/or SoAmerican cities. Builds excitement, international intrigue, and a way to try to sell some late winter travel ticket deals.
No way. Those three cities support teams who are competitive. Mlb needs to force baseline spending or team sale to owners who will meet the minimum.
Tough to disagree more than I do with your plan and Mets focused rationale. (One of the reasons I'm biased against the Mets is their fans....a number of whom I'm good friends with. 😉)
I'm glad you are excited for your current team and the big overspend. It will be interesting for baseball to watch and see how these moves impact the sport and the season. I'll be rooting for the Phils, Marlins, Nats, and Braves in the powerful NL East. (In that order)*
*the rooting order was the same last year, and the years before ...has nothing to do with the overspend.
Reds had a huge signing this week -- 😆- Wil Myers! (Shakes head....)
Mlb owners/Manfred will have to decide if they want these smaller markets as a legitimate part of the league, or completely lap them and spend them into oblivion.
The NYC media market is what 8 million? Then add in long Island and the northern westchester/Rockland areas, plus Northern NJ and Southern CT. Does Cincinnati's total break a million? Not to mention the coorporate dollars available in each market. They could sell that ballpark out every game and it wouldnt make a huge difference.
Outsourcing their games isn't the answer either. I'd imagine their fan base and community would be insulted. I'm sure lots of public dollars went into great American ballpark, and there are likely businesses around the venue that depend on game days. They still wouldn't be able to make up ground with these huge media markets.
Baseball is largely a nostalgia sport. Places like Pittsburgh and Cincinnati are important in the overall tapestry of mlb. Red Stockings, honus Wagner, big red machine, clemente, mazeroski, Forbes and Crosley field. If these teams just finish last every year without any hope to retain their stars and compete, the nostalgia and pride people have for their teams fade, apathy sets in. Carry that too long and franchises end up in serious peril.
I do realize some of that is on the ownership of those teams, but it's a more difficult case to make with cohen's spending lately.
I can totally understand why you take the position you do....but I'll still lump the Mets in with the other big spending teams. They are there.
I get why it is happening, just hold the opinion that it is not good for the league.
Also, poor Mets fans should try being a fan of a team who doesn't spend money. At least you have a chance to win consistently if you are run by a good organization. Teams who don't spend need to be amazingly well run (Ray's, As) to be competitive with any level of consistency.
You know what's bad for the sport? Billionaire owners taking in tons of luxury tax money, TV contracts and not caring about winning. Every one of these franchises are worth billions, care about winning. Truly don't understand how this is a Steve Cohen problem and not a problem with every shitty owner in the league
Paying players is good for baseball.
This all sounds good in theory but the fact is plenty of small market teams don't get close to the revenues of the Yankees and other big market teams. The Yankees local TV money dwarfs most other teams. You just can't expect the Baltimore Orioles, Pittsburgh Pirates and Cincinnati Reds to be able to spend for contracts like the Yankees, Mets, Phillies (currently) and Dodgers do because they can't. Let's be honest the luxury tax doesn't hurt those teams even a little bit. That being said the Mets now have more money over the tax than some teams spend at all. That to me is a problem as well. There should be a minimum cap. You should have to spend to a certain low level.
Again why would anyone be a fan of the Pirates, Reds or Orioles other than you grew up with those teams? In today's climate they have barely above a zero percent chance to win a championship let alone a division. I feel bad for those fan bases.
Add in the A's and you have 4 franchises that the advent of free agency (1976) has decimated.
Look at the World Series matchups from the 70's:
1970: BALTIMORE ORIOLES OVER CINCINNATI REDS IN 5 GAMES 1971: PITTSBURGH PIRATES OVER BALTIMORE ORIOLES IN 7 GAMES 1972: OAKLAND ATHLETICS OVER CINCINNATI REDS IN 7 GAMES 1973: OAKLAND ATHLETICS OVER NEW YORK METS IN 7 GAMES 1974: OAKLAND ATHLETICS OVER LOS ANGELES DODGERS IN 5 GAMES 1975: CINCINNATI REDS OVER BOSTON RED SOX IN 7 GAMES 1976: CINCINNATI REDS OVER NEW YORK YANKEES IN 4 GAMES 1977: NEW YORK YANKEES OVER LOS ANGELES DODGERS IN 6 GAMES 1978: NEW YORK YANKEES OVER LOS ANGELES DODGERS IN 6 GAMES 1979: PITTSBURGH PIRATES OVER BALTIMORE ORIOLES IN 7 GAMES
Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Ciny & Oakland are premier franchises at this point in history.
I think there’s no denying that huge FA signings might increase your CHANCES of winning it all but as I look at the 12 years since the original evil empire won a WS I see a lot of teams that came together at the right time either with young talent and/or key non-splashy acquisitions. My Giants had no superstars in 2010-2014, other than Buster Posey, who they had just drafted. They relied on great homegrown pitching and a total team “vibe.” In the past 12 years, I would say the only big spenders to win it all were the Cubs, BoSox and D*dgers (for the fraudulent 2020 mini WS). In a lot of cases, these big buck FA’s might have already peaked and may never replicate their early seasons again. I really like Judge, but I don’t expect him to ever have another 2022 year.
Off topic - I can’t understand why Votto never requested a trade. Maybe he likes making money with no pressure or expectations. It always seemed to me like Palmiero resisted going anywhere that “mattered.” It was more like, “let me compile numbers that don’t really matter at all.” Maybe Ohtani will feel the same, but…..I DON’T THINK SO!
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Spending keeps your team highly competitive at least. How many alds and alcs have the Yankees and dodgers been in? Sometimes the bottom falls out and you get a challenger disaster season, but generally the highest payroll teams remain in the conversation and the entire season is engaging for their fans.
Lose 90-105 games for a decade, and things get pretty boring
I still think tanking might be better than spending. See: cubs and astros.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
I can totally understand why you take the position you do....but I'll still lump the Mets in with the other big spending teams. They are there.
I get why it is happening, just hold the opinion that it is not good for the league.
Also, poor Mets fans should try being a fan of a team who doesn't spend money. At least you have a chance to win consistently if you are run by a good organization. Teams who don't spend need to be amazingly well run (Ray's, As) to be competitive with any level of consistency.
You know what's bad for the sport? Billionaire owners taking in tons of luxury tax money, TV contracts and not caring about winning. Every one of these franchises are worth billions, care about winning. Truly don't understand how this is a Steve Cohen problem and not a problem with every shitty owner in the league
Paying players is good for baseball.
This all sounds good in theory but the fact is plenty of small market teams don't get close to the revenues of the Yankees and other big market teams. The Yankees local TV money dwarfs most other teams. You just can't expect the Baltimore Orioles, Pittsburgh Pirates and Cincinnati Reds to be able to spend for contracts like the Yankees, Mets, Phillies (currently) and Dodgers do because they can't. Let's be honest the luxury tax doesn't hurt those teams even a little bit. That being said the Mets now have more money over the tax than some teams spend at all. That to me is a problem as well. There should be a minimum cap. You should have to spend to a certain low level.
Again why would anyone be a fan of the Pirates, Reds or Orioles other than you grew up with those teams? In today's climate they have barely above a zero percent chance to win a championship let alone a division. I feel bad for those fan bases.
The challenge is those three teams draw 17k a game, there just isn’t the revenue to support MLB. And can’t afford the chicken or egg which came first theory , the bottom line is 17k ain’t enough
Maybe it’s time to cut these teams home games by a quarter or third, and in the cold months, share the franchises with some Caribbean and/or SoAmerican cities. Builds excitement, international intrigue, and a way to try to sell some late winter travel ticket deals.
No way. Those three cities support teams who are competitive. Mlb needs to force baseline spending or team sale to owners who will meet the minimum.
Tough to disagree more than I do with your plan and Mets focused rationale. (One of the reasons I'm biased against the Mets is their fans....a number of whom I'm good friends with. 😉)
I'm glad you are excited for your current team and the big overspend. It will be interesting for baseball to watch and see how these moves impact the sport and the season. I'll be rooting for the Phils, Marlins, Nats, and Braves in the powerful NL East. (In that order)*
*the rooting order was the same last year, and the years before ...has nothing to do with the overspend.
Reds had a huge signing this week -- 😆- Wil Myers! (Shakes head....)
So your NL East rooting order starts with the Phils, projected to be a big payroll top five spend, then goes to marlins and nats whose fans got to experience championships quickly without suffering through the long term low salaried poor teams met fans endured for 35+ years, and ends with the Braves, who feature embarrassing anti Native American chants at their games.
Yeah, let’s go after the poor metsies and their long suffering fan base
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I can totally understand why you take the position you do....but I'll still lump the Mets in with the other big spending teams. They are there.
I get why it is happening, just hold the opinion that it is not good for the league.
Also, poor Mets fans should try being a fan of a team who doesn't spend money. At least you have a chance to win consistently if you are run by a good organization. Teams who don't spend need to be amazingly well run (Ray's, As) to be competitive with any level of consistency.
You know what's bad for the sport? Billionaire owners taking in tons of luxury tax money, TV contracts and not caring about winning. Every one of these franchises are worth billions, care about winning. Truly don't understand how this is a Steve Cohen problem and not a problem with every shitty owner in the league
Paying players is good for baseball.
This all sounds good in theory but the fact is plenty of small market teams don't get close to the revenues of the Yankees and other big market teams. The Yankees local TV money dwarfs most other teams. You just can't expect the Baltimore Orioles, Pittsburgh Pirates and Cincinnati Reds to be able to spend for contracts like the Yankees, Mets, Phillies (currently) and Dodgers do because they can't. Let's be honest the luxury tax doesn't hurt those teams even a little bit. That being said the Mets now have more money over the tax than some teams spend at all. That to me is a problem as well. There should be a minimum cap. You should have to spend to a certain low level.
Again why would anyone be a fan of the Pirates, Reds or Orioles other than you grew up with those teams? In today's climate they have barely above a zero percent chance to win a championship let alone a division. I feel bad for those fan bases.
The challenge is those three teams draw 17k a game, there just isn’t the revenue to support MLB. And can’t afford the chicken or egg which came first theory , the bottom line is 17k ain’t enough
Maybe it’s time to cut these teams home games by a quarter or third, and in the cold months, share the franchises with some Caribbean and/or SoAmerican cities. Builds excitement, international intrigue, and a way to try to sell some late winter travel ticket deals.
No way. Those three cities support teams who are competitive. Mlb needs to force baseline spending or team sale to owners who will meet the minimum.
Tough to disagree more than I do with your plan and Mets focused rationale. (One of the reasons I'm biased against the Mets is their fans....a number of whom I'm good friends with. 😉)
I'm glad you are excited for your current team and the big overspend. It will be interesting for baseball to watch and see how these moves impact the sport and the season. I'll be rooting for the Phils, Marlins, Nats, and Braves in the powerful NL East. (In that order)*
*the rooting order was the same last year, and the years before ...has nothing to do with the overspend.
Reds had a huge signing this week -- 😆- Wil Myers! (Shakes head....)
So your NL East rooting order starts with the Phils, projected to be a big payroll top five spend, then goes to marlins and nats whose fans got to experience championships quickly without suffering through the long term low salaried poor teams met fans endured for 35+ years, and ends with the Braves, who feature embarrassing anti Native American chants at their games.
Yeah, let’s go after the poor metsies and their long suffering fan base
Is his physical that bad? He actually played 2 full seasons. My thoughts on him getting hurt is he usually gets plunked w a pitch, not a knee injury. This is some interesting shit.
I think there’s no denying that huge FA signings might increase your CHANCES of winning it all but as I look at the 12 years since the original evil empire won a WS I see a lot of teams that came together at the right time either with young talent and/or key non-splashy acquisitions. My Giants had no superstars in 2010-2014, other than Buster Posey, who they had just drafted. They relied on great homegrown pitching and a total team “vibe.” In the past 12 years, I would say the only big spenders to win it all were the Cubs, BoSox and D*dgers (for the fraudulent 2020 mini WS). In a lot of cases, these big buck FA’s might have already peaked and may never replicate their early seasons again. I really like Judge, but I don’t expect him to ever have another 2022 year.
Off topic - I can’t understand why Votto never requested a trade. Maybe he likes making money with no pressure or expectations. It always seemed to me like Palmiero resisted going anywhere that “mattered.” It was more like, “let me compile numbers that don’t really matter at all.” Maybe Ohtani will feel the same, but…..I DON’T THINK SO!
The Cubs weren't really big spenders in the grand scheme of things. Heyward was the only big money acquisition that offseason; Lester was already 2 years into his deal. Lackey, Zobrist, & Fowler were all done on the short & cheap. Everyone else was either home grown - Baez, Bryant, Contreras, Schwarber, Almora, Soler, Edwards Jr - or acquired thru low-level trades which conveniently all worked out at the same time and immensely in their favor - Rizzo [Cashner], Russell [Samardzija], Arrieta/Strop [Feldman/Clevenger], Hendricks [Dempster] - and the Chapman loan [Torres].
FWIW, the Cubs payroll in 2016 was lower than the Giants.
I think there’s no denying that huge FA signings might increase your CHANCES of winning it all but as I look at the 12 years since the original evil empire won a WS I see a lot of teams that came together at the right time either with young talent and/or key non-splashy acquisitions. My Giants had no superstars in 2010-2014, other than Buster Posey, who they had just drafted. They relied on great homegrown pitching and a total team “vibe.” In the past 12 years, I would say the only big spenders to win it all were the Cubs, BoSox and D*dgers (for the fraudulent 2020 mini WS). In a lot of cases, these big buck FA’s might have already peaked and may never replicate their early seasons again. I really like Judge, but I don’t expect him to ever have another 2022 year.
Off topic - I can’t understand why Votto never requested a trade. Maybe he likes making money with no pressure or expectations. It always seemed to me like Palmiero resisted going anywhere that “mattered.” It was more like, “let me compile numbers that don’t really matter at all.” Maybe Ohtani will feel the same, but…..I DON’T THINK SO!
The Cubs weren't really big spenders in the grand scheme of things. Heyward was the only big money acquisition that offseason; Lester was already 2 years into his deal. Lackey, Zobrist, & Fowler were all done on the short & cheap. Everyone else was either home grown - Baez, Bryant, Contreras, Schwarber, Almora, Soler, Edwards Jr - or acquired thru low-level trades which conveniently all worked out at the same time and immensely in their favor - Rizzo [Cashner], Russell [Samardzija], Arrieta/Strop [Feldman/Clevenger], Hendricks [Dempster] - and the Chapman loan [Torres].
FWIW, the Cubs payroll in 2016 was lower than the Giants.
my bad. you’re right….the cubs didn’t have a big payroll but they were clearly “going for it.”
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Looking forward to having Cabrera at $25million next year, or whatever. Hey, at least he’s having fun in the dugout😒
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
Yeah top 5 seem to be Nash, Portland, Vegas, Charlotte, Montreal.
I can see football working for Vegas, but I don't know if anything else. Seems like a good spot for winter ball, and other football team fans can supplement 70k+ attendance, don't know about baseball tho and filling a 35/45k ballpark consistently.
Apparently Portland is the biggest market with only one major sports team. And a bigger market than Milwaukee, Cincy, and Kansas City. Would give a decent rival for the M's, too.
I can see football working for Vegas, but I don't know if anything else
Golden Knights have played to 104-105% of capacity every season so far. And an NBA team in Vegas would do great business. Baseball, they need an enclosed stadium for sure in the summer, but I think it could do well.
I can see football working for Vegas, but I don't know if anything else
Golden Knights have played to 104-105% of capacity every season so far. And an NBA team in Vegas would do great business. Baseball, they need an enclosed stadium for sure in the summer, but I think it could do well.
Ha, I forgot about them, but I meant major sports.
Even Nashville has a hockey team. You're right tho, sports teams would do fine in Vegas.
Comments
Tough to disagree more than I do with your plan and Mets focused rationale. (One of the reasons I'm biased against the Mets is their fans....a number of whom I'm good friends with. 😉)
I'm glad you are excited for your current team and the big overspend. It will be interesting for baseball to watch and see how these moves impact the sport and the season.
I'll be rooting for the Phils, Marlins, Nats, and Braves in the powerful NL East. (In that order)*
*the rooting order was the same last year, and the years before ...has nothing to do with the overspend.
Reds had a huge signing this week -- 😆- Wil Myers!
(Shakes head....)
The NYC media market is what 8 million? Then add in long Island and the northern westchester/Rockland areas, plus Northern NJ and Southern CT. Does Cincinnati's total break a million? Not to mention the coorporate dollars available in each market.
They could sell that ballpark out every game and it wouldnt make a huge difference.
Outsourcing their games isn't the answer either. I'd imagine their fan base and community would be insulted. I'm sure lots of public dollars went into great American ballpark, and there are likely businesses around the venue that depend on game days. They still wouldn't be able to make up ground with these huge media markets.
Baseball is largely a nostalgia sport. Places like Pittsburgh and Cincinnati are important in the overall tapestry of mlb. Red Stockings, honus Wagner, big red machine, clemente, mazeroski, Forbes and Crosley field. If these teams just finish last every year without any hope to retain their stars and compete, the nostalgia and pride people have for their teams fade, apathy sets in. Carry that too long and franchises end up in serious peril.
I do realize some of that is on the ownership of those teams, but it's a more difficult case to make with cohen's spending lately.
Hard cap, floor, and revenue sharing.
Look at the World Series matchups from the 70's:
1971: PITTSBURGH PIRATES OVER BALTIMORE ORIOLES IN 7 GAMES
1972: OAKLAND ATHLETICS OVER CINCINNATI REDS IN 7 GAMES
1973: OAKLAND ATHLETICS OVER NEW YORK METS IN 7 GAMES
1974: OAKLAND ATHLETICS OVER LOS ANGELES DODGERS IN 5 GAMES
1975: CINCINNATI REDS OVER BOSTON RED SOX IN 7 GAMES
1976: CINCINNATI REDS OVER NEW YORK YANKEES IN 4 GAMES
1977: NEW YORK YANKEES OVER LOS ANGELES DODGERS IN 6 GAMES
1978: NEW YORK YANKEES OVER LOS ANGELES DODGERS IN 6 GAMES
1979: PITTSBURGH PIRATES OVER BALTIMORE ORIOLES IN 7 GAMES
Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Ciny & Oakland are premier franchises at this point in history.
Off topic - I can’t understand why Votto never requested a trade. Maybe he likes making money with no pressure or expectations. It always seemed to me like Palmiero resisted going anywhere that “mattered.” It was more like, “let me compile numbers that don’t really matter at all.” Maybe Ohtani will feel the same, but…..I DON’T THINK SO!
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Lose 90-105 games for a decade, and things get pretty boring
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Yeah, let’s go after the poor metsies and their long suffering fan base
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
This is some interesting shit.
FWIW, the Cubs payroll in 2016 was lower than the Giants.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
Who should the other be? Based on everything I've read makes a lot of sense for it to be Portland. Personally, I want the Expos to come back.
I can see football working for Vegas, but I don't know if anything else. Seems like a good spot for winter ball, and other football team fans can supplement 70k+ attendance, don't know about baseball tho and filling a 35/45k ballpark consistently.
Apparently Portland is the biggest market with only one major sports team. And a bigger market than Milwaukee, Cincy, and Kansas City. Would give a decent rival for the M's, too.
Baseball, they need an enclosed stadium for sure in the summer, but I think it could do well.
Even Nashville has a hockey team. You're right tho, sports teams would do fine in Vegas.