MLB 2019 post-season

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  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 15,049
    1y Edgar Martinez10th
    2y Mike Mussina6th
    3y Roger Clemens7th
    4y Barry Bonds7th
    5y Curt Schilling7th
    6y Omar Vizquel2nd
    7y Larry Walker9th
    8y Fred McGriff10th
    9y Manny Ramirez3rd
    10y Jeff Kent6th
    11y Gary Sheffield5th
    12y Billy Wagner4th
    13y Scott Rolen2nd
    14y Sammy Sosa7th
    15y Andruw Jones2nd
    16y Mariano Rivera1st
    17y Roy Halladay1st
    18y Todd Helton1st
    19y Andy Pettitte1st
    20y Lance Berkman1st
    21y Roy Oswalt1st
    22y Miguel Tejada1st
    23y Placido Polanco1st
    24y Kevin Youkilis1st
    25y Derek Lowe1st
    26y Freddy Garcia1st
    27y Vernon Wells1st
    28y Ted Lilly1st
    29y Travis Hafner1st
    30y Jason Bay1st
    31y Michael Young1st
    32y Jon Garland1st
    33y Darren Oliver1st
    34y Juan Pierre1st
    35y Rick Ankiel1

    35 players up for HOF consideration.  Years on the ballot on the right.

    So the rules are you can vote for 10.  Do you vote all 10?

    Wondering if I should make a poll?

    Note: Click on the players name for a link to career stats.
    If 10 are worthy, I’d vote for 10. As for this list, I’ve got 8:

    Bonds
    Clemens
    Rivera
    Sosa
    Ramirez
    Mussina
    Schilling
    Halladay
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 9,953
    Poncier said:
    I'd vote for;
    Rivera
    Clemens
    Mussina
    Bonds
    Schilling



    What's the point of even putting the likes of Youk, Garland, Lilly and a few others on the ballot.
    Sosa, Manny and Jones don't make it huh?
    Manny was borderline for me. But dude got suspended multiple times for PEDs. Bonds & Clemens as noted in previous discussions were HOF worthy before they started juicing (from what we all think is the timeline).
    Sosa before juice not even close.  Manny had he not been blatantly caught on  multiple occasions, I'd vote for. Jones just doesn't make the cut in my opinion.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • Poncier said:
    Poncier said:
    I'd vote for;
    Rivera
    Clemens
    Mussina
    Bonds
    Schilling



    What's the point of even putting the likes of Youk, Garland, Lilly and a few others on the ballot.
    Sosa, Manny and Jones don't make it huh?
    Manny was borderline for me. But dude got suspended multiple times for PEDs. Bonds & Clemens as noted in previous discussions were HOF worthy before they started juicing (from what we all think is the timeline).
    Sosa before juice not even close.  Manny had he not been blatantly caught on  multiple occasions, I'd vote for. Jones just doesn't make the cut in my opinion.
    The "when they juiced" thing is really trivial.  We all knew people were juicing.  The writers knew they were juicing.  A bunch of people and the BBHOF writers need to get off their high horses and stop acting like they didn't know what was going on.  It's just silly.

    Piazza is in?  Ivan Rodriguez is in?  Good.

    Let em all in if they have the numbers.

  • If 10 are worthy, I’d vote for 10. As for this list, I’ve got 8:

    Bonds
    Clemens
    Rivera
    Sosa
    Ramirez
    Mussina
    Schilling
    Halladay
    Out of all these guys I am curious about Schilling?  Is it the bloody sock that gets him in?  I don't see him as being in there.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 29,272
    Ketchup sock.
  • Ketchup sock.
    C'mon.  It was a cool moment in BB history.
  • JK_LivinJK_Livin South JerseyPosts: 7,188
    Ketchup sock.
    C'mon.  It was a cool moment in BB history.
    Thought it was BBQ sauce?
    Alright, alright, alright!
    Tom O.
    "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
    -The Writer
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 15,049

    If 10 are worthy, I’d vote for 10. As for this list, I’ve got 8:

    Bonds
    Clemens
    Rivera
    Sosa
    Ramirez
    Mussina
    Schilling
    Halladay
    Out of all these guys I am curious about Schilling?  Is it the bloody sock that gets him in?  I don't see him as being in there.
    He’s a borderline vote, but I think he deserves it. 200 wins, 3000 K, 85 CG, 20 SHO, 3-time WS Champion. He’s basically Halladay without the Cy Young awards.
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 29,272
    Ketchup sock.
    C'mon.  It was a cool moment in BB history.
    Literally the least cool moment in baseball history.
  • Ketchup sock.
    C'mon.  It was a cool moment in BB history.
    Literally the least cool moment in baseball history.
    Nolan Ryan w the bloody shirt doesn't do it for you?
  • Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 29,272
    Ketchup sock.
    C'mon.  It was a cool moment in BB history.
    Literally the least cool moment in baseball history.
    Nolan Ryan w the bloody shirt doesn't do it for you?
    Hell yeah!  Real blood!
  • Ketchup sock.
    C'mon.  It was a cool moment in BB history.
    Literally the least cool moment in baseball history.
    Nolan Ryan w the bloody shirt doesn't do it for you?
    Hell yeah!  Real blood!
    lol, just as I thought...Biased opinion...
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 9,755
    pjhawks said:
    pjhawks said:
    Poncier said:
    I would agree.

    Pettite skates by on PED's but he used and blamed his father, no way he should get any consideration until the likes of Clemens, Bonds and several others are in. Still can't comprehend why he is given such a pass. Saint Andy my ass.
    Halladay may get sympathy votes due to his untimely death, but he really doesn't have the numbers. And Helton will not get in due to the Coors Field factor.

    Rivera is a stone cold lock though. Should get at least 95% of the votes, as we know some d-bags won't vote for him so its not unanimous.
    here is an article in Philly today about Halladay.  His numbers were superior than almost everyone for a decade. he is definitely Hall worthy.

    https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/phillies/roy-halladay-deserves-be-1st-ballot-hall-famer

    Roy Halladay deserves to be a 1st-ballot Hall of Famer

    Fans in Philadelphia didn’t get to enjoy Roy Halladay for very long. He had two stellar seasons, followed by two injury-plagued years that ended his playing career.

    Halladay died in an aircraft accident one year ago. On Monday, Halladay was named among 35 players on the ballot for the 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame (see story).

    Customarily, players have to wait five years for Hall of Fame eligibility. If a player dies, they're eligible six months after their death. There has been one exception to this rule in the last 65 years: Roberto Clemente was inducted in 1973, after dying in a plane crash on Dec. 31, 1972.

    There are a handful of worthy names on this year’s ballot. And while Roy Halladay was forced into early retirement at 36, he is a pitcher with virtually no equals during his 15-plus major league seasons.

    Halladay's death last year hit the Philadelphia sports community hard. His starts with the Phillies were appointment viewing, the likes of which the city hadn’t seen since Curt Schilling dominated teams in the 1990s.

    And although fans in Philadelphia only saw two seasons of Halladay's excellence on the mound, his prime lasted a decade — the 2002 through the 2011 seasons.

    Here are Halladay's ranks among all MLB pitchers during that span:

    Wins — 170 (1st)

    Win percentage — .694 (1st)

    Complete Games — 63 (1st - by 30!)

    Shutouts — 18 (1st)

    K/BB Ratio — 4.57 (1st)

    ERA — 2.97 (2nd)

    ERA+ — 148 (2nd)

    Innings — 2194.2 (2nd)

    He also made eight All-Star teams, won two Cy Young Awards and finished in the top 5 in Cy Young voting seven times in that 10-year span.

    From the years 1995 through 2017, Halladay has more complete games than any pitcher (67). Here's the thing: Halladay only pitched from 1998 through 2013.

    Being the best pitcher in baseball for a season is a feat. Being the best pitcher in baseball for an entire decade is something that is truly special. Remember how great Tim Lincecum was at the start of his career? He also won two Cy Youngs. Lincecum didn't even make it to 10 full seasons in the big leagues before a degenerative hip injury derailed his career.

    The end of Roy Halladay's baseball career, and his life, occurred far too soon. Voting him into the Baseball Hall of Fame next year would not be.


    Being great for 10 years shouldn't get you in the hall, sorry...
    if being the most dominant pitcher over a decade isn't hall worthy then your hall inductions for pitchers are going to be nil in the coming years.  you can't use 1970 number plateau's for pitchers anymore. it doesn't work in today's game.
    I know what you are saying so 250 wins would be good for me not 205 unless you won 20 games for 10 years which no one has done.

    With the pitching I really do have to come to some sort of another way of looking at it.

    I look at Lincecum and dude was lights out for a few years w a few Cy Youngs, does he get any mention?

    Josh Beckett was a stud in the post season for quite a few years, does he get consideration?

    Looking ahead does Baumgarner, Sale, Verlander, and Scherzer get in if they stop playing today?

    There are so many variables...

    Make your picks though please.
    Verlander and Scherzer absolutely are hall of famers in my book.  Baumgerner and Sale not yet. Lincecum and Beckett no
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 15,049
    When Adrian Beltre made his MLB debut, Google didn’t exist and Juan Soto was not born. (They’d enter the world 3 & 4 months later, respectively.)
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 9,953

    If 10 are worthy, I’d vote for 10. As for this list, I’ve got 8:

    Bonds
    Clemens
    Rivera
    Sosa
    Ramirez
    Mussina
    Schilling
    Halladay
    Out of all these guys I am curious about Schilling?  Is it the bloody sock that gets him in?  I don't see him as being in there.
    He’s a borderline vote, but I think he deserves it. 200 wins, 3000 K, 85 CG, 20 SHO, 3-time WS Champion. He’s basically Halladay without the Cy Young awards.
    His regular season stats make him borderline.

    His post season stats put him in.

    11-2 with a 2.23 ERA in the post season.

    His politics however have and will continue to keep him out.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 15,049
    Poncier said:

    If 10 are worthy, I’d vote for 10. As for this list, I’ve got 8:

    Bonds
    Clemens
    Rivera
    Sosa
    Ramirez
    Mussina
    Schilling
    Halladay
    Out of all these guys I am curious about Schilling?  Is it the bloody sock that gets him in?  I don't see him as being in there.
    He’s a borderline vote, but I think he deserves it. 200 wins, 3000 K, 85 CG, 20 SHO, 3-time WS Champion. He’s basically Halladay without the Cy Young awards.
    His regular season stats make him borderline.

    His post season stats put him in.

    11-2 with a 2.23 ERA in the post season.

    His politics however have and will continue to keep him out.
    First two statements I completely agree. The last statement, all I have to say is if voters are looking at things that have nothing to do with a baseball career, they need to lose their vote. I don’t agree with much he says or does in his retirement either, but that takes nothing away from what he accomplished as a baseball player.
  • PoncierPoncier Posts: 9,953
    But we know some voters are doing this, just like surly guys with the media have a tougher time than pleasant guys getting votes.
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 15,049
    Poncier said:
    But we know some voters are doing this, just like surly guys with the media have a tougher time than pleasant guys getting votes.
    Yep, it’s extremely unfortunate. 
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 10,067
    DewieCox said:
    pjhawks said:
    Poncier said:
    I would agree.

    Pettite skates by on PED's but he used and blamed his father, no way he should get any consideration until the likes of Clemens, Bonds and several others are in. Still can't comprehend why he is given such a pass. Saint Andy my ass.
    Halladay may get sympathy votes due to his untimely death, but he really doesn't have the numbers. And Helton will not get in due to the Coors Field factor.

    Rivera is a stone cold lock though. Should get at least 95% of the votes, as we know some d-bags won't vote for him so its not unanimous.
    here is an article in Philly today about Halladay.  His numbers were superior than almost everyone for a decade. he is definitely Hall worthy.

    https://www.nbcsports.com/philadelphia/phillies/roy-halladay-deserves-be-1st-ballot-hall-famer

    Roy Halladay deserves to be a 1st-ballot Hall of Famer

    Fans in Philadelphia didn’t get to enjoy Roy Halladay for very long. He had two stellar seasons, followed by two injury-plagued years that ended his playing career.

    Halladay died in an aircraft accident one year ago. On Monday, Halladay was named among 35 players on the ballot for the 2019 Baseball Hall of Fame (see story).

    Customarily, players have to wait five years for Hall of Fame eligibility. If a player dies, they're eligible six months after their death. There has been one exception to this rule in the last 65 years: Roberto Clemente was inducted in 1973, after dying in a plane crash on Dec. 31, 1972.

    There are a handful of worthy names on this year’s ballot. And while Roy Halladay was forced into early retirement at 36, he is a pitcher with virtually no equals during his 15-plus major league seasons.

    Halladay's death last year hit the Philadelphia sports community hard. His starts with the Phillies were appointment viewing, the likes of which the city hadn’t seen since Curt Schilling dominated teams in the 1990s.

    And although fans in Philadelphia only saw two seasons of Halladay's excellence on the mound, his prime lasted a decade — the 2002 through the 2011 seasons.

    Here are Halladay's ranks among all MLB pitchers during that span:

    Wins — 170 (1st)

    Win percentage — .694 (1st)

    Complete Games — 63 (1st - by 30!)

    Shutouts — 18 (1st)

    K/BB Ratio — 4.57 (1st)

    ERA — 2.97 (2nd)

    ERA+ — 148 (2nd)

    Innings — 2194.2 (2nd)

    He also made eight All-Star teams, won two Cy Young Awards and finished in the top 5 in Cy Young voting seven times in that 10-year span.

    From the years 1995 through 2017, Halladay has more complete games than any pitcher (67). Here's the thing: Halladay only pitched from 1998 through 2013.

    Being the best pitcher in baseball for a season is a feat. Being the best pitcher in baseball for an entire decade is something that is truly special. Remember how great Tim Lincecum was at the start of his career? He also won two Cy Youngs. Lincecum didn't even make it to 10 full seasons in the big leagues before a degenerative hip injury derailed his career.

    The end of Roy Halladay's baseball career, and his life, occurred far too soon. Voting him into the Baseball Hall of Fame next year would not be.


    Being great for 10 years shouldn't get you in the hall, sorry...

    LOL, you realize how ridiculous that sounds?  Not even defending Halladay, but 10 years of greatness is basically what most HoF careers are made up of.
    Please direct me to any player that has only around 10 years of playing ball that has made it into the HOF.  You can even google it.

    I know off the top of my head 2 and that's Dimaggio and Koufax.

    Nobody makes it in off 10 good years.  If that were the case then McGriff, Walker and Martinez would have already be in...
     
    10 great years, a few good years at the beginning and end of a career and a couple years of hanging on too long reaching benchmarks is most Hall of Famers.
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 10,067
    Sosa shouldn’t sniff the HoF. He was a good player deserving of a few AS nods and maybe an MVP vote here and there til the juice. Nobody was calling they’re guy a HoF til then.

    Manny could stroke and was clutch as hell. He’s Hall material without thinking about it.
  • When Adrian Beltre made his MLB debut, Google didn’t exist and Juan Soto was not born. (They’d enter the world 3 & 4 months later, respectively.)
    I have Beltre's rookies still.  His cards were of the last of the cards that were just "rookie cards" and not numbered/auto/refractor that is typical now.

    Soto spent what, a year in the minors before coming up?

    I am noticing a trend with players and coming up fast with a few teams.
  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 15,049
    I personally think denying someone the HOF because of steroid use is one of the dumbest, most holier-than-thou excuses to not vote for them I've ever heard.  We were all absolutely thrilled about what those guys were doing in the 90s & early 00's.  Now we're on some moral high horse when it comes to career awards & recognition? Why?  When almost the entire league was doing it, why punish the ones who had more success?  It's just like black-balling Lance Armstrong from cycling.  When one cheater beats the other cheaters, he's still better than the athletes in defeat.  Bonds Hall, McGwire Hall, Sosa Hall, Clemens Hall, ARod Hall, Manny Hall, Palmeiro Hall, etc.
    I'm not saying everyone should cheat nor am I downplaying "playing the right way" but when the playing field is even, maintained success should still be recognized.
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 17,096
    Why is it okay to say so and so was already a HOF before steroids and they should be in? But not before an injury/ies?
    I miss igotid88
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 10,067
    I personally think denying someone the HOF because of steroid use is one of the dumbest, most holier-than-thou excuses to not vote for them I've ever heard.  We were all absolutely thrilled about what those guys were doing in the 90s & early 00's.  Now we're on some moral high horse when it comes to career awards & recognition? Why?  When almost the entire league was doing it, why punish the ones who had more success?  It's just like black-balling Lance Armstrong from cycling.  When one cheater beats the other cheaters, he's still better than the athletes in defeat.  Bonds Hall, McGwire Hall, Sosa Hall, Clemens Hall, ARod Hall, Manny Hall, Palmeiro Hall, etc.
    I'm not saying everyone should cheat nor am I downplaying "playing the right way" but when the playing field is even, maintained success should still be recognized.

    Im not anti steroid guys. I just think it’s fair to figuratively adjust he numbers and attempt to predict their career trajectory without them. Facts are some of those guys were on a HoF path and some of them weren’t, especially guys like Sosa whose numbers jumped drastically.
  • DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 10,067
    edited November 2018
    igotid88 said:
    Why is it okay to say so and so was already a HOF before steroids and they should be in? But not before an injury/ies?
    I’d rather them vote in injury prone guys theat didn’t get the numbers than guys that likely wouldn’t have been up to snuff without the juice.
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 25,381
    Ketchup sock.
    C'mon.  It was a cool moment in BB history.
    Literally the least cool moment in baseball history.
    :lol:

    fuck curt schilling.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • WobbieWobbie Posts: 25,381
    igotid88 said:
    Why is it okay to say so and so was already a HOF before steroids and they should be in? But not before an injury/ies?

    and......we’re back to mattingly.
    If I had known then what I know now...

    Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
    VIC 07
    EV LA1 08
    Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
    Columbus 10
    EV LA 11
    Vancouver 11
    Missoula 12
    Portland 13, Spokane 13
    St. Paul 14, Denver 14
    Philly I & II, 16
  • igotid88igotid88 Posts: 17,096
    Wobbie said:
    igotid88 said:
    Why is it okay to say so and so was already a HOF before steroids and they should be in? But not before an injury/ies?

    and......we’re back to mattingly.
    there are others. 
    I miss igotid88
  • cutzcutz Posts: 8,356
    https://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/1659610

    5 ideal trade partners for Mets' Syndergaard

    San Diego Padres

    The Padres have been the most aggressively linked to Syndergaard after emerging as one of the teams that targeted him during the summer. Their interest makes sense with a rotation featuring Clayton RichardJoey LucchesiRobbie Erlin, and eventually Dinelson Lamet.

    Syndergaard would fill the void atop the pitching staff. Wil Myers, who has already been the subject of trade rumors with the Seattle Mariners, could go the other way and serve as much needed first-base help for the Mets, but it would almost certainly not work as a one-for-one.

    New York could also use some help at third base. Myers spent some time at the hot corner last season, but it's not obvious that he can stick and may be better served to play first base. San Diego is in a position to deal from the farm system, possibly baseball's best, but barring a surprise offer of Fernando Tatis Jr., that doesn't seem to fit with what the Mets are seeking.

    Colorado Rockies

    While it's difficult to speculate on the exact pieces that could be involved in a trade, the Mets would have to listen if the Rockies brought up third baseman Nolan Arenado.

    Arenado has popped up as a trade candidate this offseason, and he should tick off all the boxes that the Mets are looking for. Over the last four seasons, Arenado has hit .297/.358/.573 with 158 home runs (third most in the majors after Nelson Cruz and Khris Davis). The Mets have Todd Frazier at the hot corner, but he could be used off the bench or moved to first if Dominic Smith continues to flop or if Peter Alonso isn't ready.

    The two concerns regarding Arenado will be his impending free agency and whether or not he can hit consistently away from Coors Field. The glove will play everywhere, but he struggles outside Denver's friendly confines. With that in mind, the Rockies may need to sweeten the pot with Syndergaard's cheaper salary and three extra years of control. It won't be top infield prospect Brendan Rodgers, but it could be speedy second baseman Garrett Hampson.

    Syndergaard would slot in nicely atop a blooming rotation of German MarquezKyle FreelandJon Gray, and Tyler Anderson. His arrival could potentially make one of them expendable.

    Milwaukee Brewers

    The Brewers' rotation was their Achilles' heel in 2018, though they made it work thanks to a ridiculous bullpen. Things already look like they'll be different this coming season with the growing likelihood of Brandon Woodruff and Corbin Burnes joining the starting staff and 2017 ace Jimmy Nelson eventually returning.

    Why not cap that off by pursuing Syndergaard? This would take some creativity and could include re-signing Mike Moustakas and offering Travis Shaw plus others to New York. It would be difficult to bid goodbye to Shaw after he's excelled in Milwaukee, but landing a possible generational pitching talent should make that pill easier to swallow.

    The question becomes whether or not a player like Eric ThamesDomingo SantanaKeon Broxton, or Jonathan Schoop can generate enough interest to tip the scales without the Brewers also needing to relinquish top infield prospect Keston Hiura.

    If the Brewers could cobble together a suitable offer that wouldn't totally gouge their depth, they'd turn their biggest weakness into a strength rather quickly.

    Los Angeles Angels

    The Angels have missed the postseason in six of the seven years that Mike Trout has been a full-time player. And that one occasion saw the Kansas City Royals sweep them in a three-game ALDS in 2014.

    Think about that for a second. The Angels have yet to win a playoff game in the Mike Trout era. That is a colossal disappointment, and the biggest culprit has been poor starting pitching.

    Shohei Ohtani won't pitch in 2019, either, so the current outlook is bleak. Finding a way to get a player like Syndergaard should be a priority, but the current roster makes that idea a difficult one to imagine. Kole Calhoun and Zack Cozart are individuals they wouldn't exactly miss, but the Mets would laugh at that offer. Andrelton Simmons would be intriguing (Amed Rosario could shift to second base), but it would be shocking to see the Angels part with him.


  • cutzcutz Posts: 8,356

    Houston Astros

    Perhaps no would-be contender is in more need of Syndergaard's services than the Astros, especially when considering the years beyond 2019. Both Gerrit Cole and Justin Verlander are free agents after the season, so acquiring a top young pitcher with control would help to curb the panic.

    For the immediate future, Syndergaard would give Houston a legitimate trio atop the rotation with Lance McCullers Jr. out for the season while replacing free agent Dallas Keuchel without spending huge money on the open market.

    Like the Angels, though, the Astros may be somewhat thin in experienced major-league players who they'd be willing to give up. With Alex Bregman's emergence as an MVP candidate, could the Astros be convinced to build a package around shortstop Carlos Correa or outfielder George Springer?

    Based on the criteria put forward by the Mets, that would be the most likely avenue, but the cost may be too steep. Springer makes more sense because they could bring up top prospect Kyle Tucker (and the Mets could move Jay Bruce to first base), while finding a Correa replacement would require more roster gymnastics.

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