"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."
And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters.
He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.
Hall worthy numbers?
Hits? 1700, nope. HR? 381, nope. Runs? 974, nope. SB? 88, nope. Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...
What stats does he have that places him in the HOF? It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.
For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers. If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs... All of which Mr.Belle did not.
So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when 3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.
Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his career, based on a 162 games .295 40 HR 130 RBI's) >Probably a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG. OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB
Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.
Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.
Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.
Had 3000 hits.
Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs. The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.
He also won 4GG.
He belongs in.
Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry... Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.
Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance. Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.
I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.
Agree with you here. If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame. Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league. For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.
Biggio was in the top 10 for MVP voting 3 times and an All-Star 7 times.
Again with thinking like that you'd have some killer players with short bursts.
Baseball is about stats. They all mean something, so if you hit one of those milestones you will be going to the HOF.
I also think Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and A-Rod should be in too.
Like Sandy Koufax. so yes killer bursts deserve consideration. Would you rather have 7 great seasons or 13 good ones? To me a burst of greatness is better than a longevity of good seasons.
So as expected, the starting offer for Harper is 10 years, $300 mil.
He will get 350+ , no?
I think so, yeah.
I'm still not sold on a 10yr deal...
He's 25. He's definitely getting at least a 10 year deal. The hope would be that he opts out after 5 and leaves, right? You get 5 of his likely best years and he gets another big contract?
"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."
And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters.
He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.
Hall worthy numbers?
Hits? 1700, nope. HR? 381, nope. Runs? 974, nope. SB? 88, nope. Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...
What stats does he have that places him in the HOF? It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.
For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers. If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs... All of which Mr.Belle did not.
So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when 3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.
Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his career, based on a 162 games .295 40 HR 130 RBI's) >Probably a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG. OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB
Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.
Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.
Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.
Had 3000 hits.
Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs. The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.
He also won 4GG.
He belongs in.
Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry... Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.
Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance. Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.
I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.
Agree with you here. If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame. Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league. For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.
Biggio was in the top 10 for MVP voting 3 times and an All-Star 7 times.
Again with thinking like that you'd have some killer players with short bursts.
Baseball is about stats. They all mean something, so if you hit one of those milestones you will be going to the HOF.
I also think Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and A-Rod should be in too.
Like Sandy Koufax. so yes killer bursts deserve consideration. Would you rather have 7 great seasons or 13 good ones? To me a burst of greatness is better than a longevity of good seasons.
Koufax is the ONLY player with that few good seasons to get in the HOF. He had 6 years?
Dimaggio only played 13 years but Belle isn't Dimaggio, not by a long shot.
The only other players that get in the HOF with insignificant numbers is by the Veterans Committee or whatever it is now. They vote in a bunch of players that should not get in like Ashburn and Irvin...
"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."
And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters.
He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.
Hall worthy numbers?
Hits? 1700, nope. HR? 381, nope. Runs? 974, nope. SB? 88, nope. Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...
What stats does he have that places him in the HOF? It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.
For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers. If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs... All of which Mr.Belle did not.
So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when 3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.
Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his career, based on a 162 games .295 40 HR 130 RBI's) >Probably a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG. OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB
Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.
Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.
Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.
Had 3000 hits.
Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs. The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.
He also won 4GG.
He belongs in.
Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry... Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.
Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance. Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.
I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.
Agree with you here. If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame. Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league. For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.
Biggio was in the top 10 for MVP voting 3 times and an All-Star 7 times.
Again with thinking like that you'd have some killer players with short bursts.
Baseball is about stats. They all mean something, so if you hit one of those milestones you will be going to the HOF.
I also think Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and A-Rod should be in too.
Like Sandy Koufax. so yes killer bursts deserve consideration. Would you rather have 7 great seasons or 13 good ones? To me a burst of greatness is better than a longevity of good seasons.
Koufax is the ONLY player with that few good seasons to get in the HOF. He had 6 years?
Dimaggio only played 13 years but Belle isn't Dimaggio, not by a long shot.
The only other players that get in the HOF with insignificant numbers is by the Veterans Committee or whatever it is now. They vote in a bunch of players that should not get in like Ashburn and Irvin...
Good players but not great.
I think Belle was good but not HOF material...
If you don't look at just the numbers do you think Craig Biggio was a better player than Albert Belle, Don Mattingly, Will Clark, Ryan Howard? I don't
"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."
And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters.
He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.
Hall worthy numbers?
Hits? 1700, nope. HR? 381, nope. Runs? 974, nope. SB? 88, nope. Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...
What stats does he have that places him in the HOF? It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.
For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers. If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs... All of which Mr.Belle did not.
So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when 3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.
Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his career, based on a 162 games .295 40 HR 130 RBI's) >Probably a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG. OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB
Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.
Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.
Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.
Had 3000 hits.
Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs. The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.
He also won 4GG.
He belongs in.
Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry... Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.
Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance. Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.
I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.
Agree with you here. If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame. Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league. For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.
Biggio was in the top 10 for MVP voting 3 times and an All-Star 7 times.
Again with thinking like that you'd have some killer players with short bursts.
Baseball is about stats. They all mean something, so if you hit one of those milestones you will be going to the HOF.
I also think Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and A-Rod should be in too.
Like Sandy Koufax. so yes killer bursts deserve consideration. Would you rather have 7 great seasons or 13 good ones? To me a burst of greatness is better than a longevity of good seasons.
Koufax is the ONLY player with that few good seasons to get in the HOF. He had 6 years?
Dimaggio only played 13 years but Belle isn't Dimaggio, not by a long shot.
The only other players that get in the HOF with insignificant numbers is by the Veterans Committee or whatever it is now. They vote in a bunch of players that should not get in like Ashburn and Irvin...
Good players but not great.
I think Belle was good but not HOF material...
If you don't look at just the numbers do you think Craig Biggio was a better player than Albert Belle, Don Mattingly, Will Clark, Ryan Howard? I don't
I do. Over time. Better fielder sans Mattingly. Better base stealer. Gritty player. The 4 you mentioned weren't gritty.
I appreciate longevity too which the 4 you mentioned do not have.
If Mattingly played at his peak the last 5 years of playing he would have some serious numbers.
That is just me though.
The other guys won't get in the HOF because of 10 years of good. Living through all these players careers Mattingly is the most nostalgic. He was the best player in the game for a few years but I wouldn't put him in for that.
"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."
And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters.
He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.
Hall worthy numbers?
Hits? 1700, nope. HR? 381, nope. Runs? 974, nope. SB? 88, nope. Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...
What stats does he have that places him in the HOF? It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.
For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers. If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs... All of which Mr.Belle did not.
So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when 3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.
Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his career, based on a 162 games .295 40 HR 130 RBI's) >Probably a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG. OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB
Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.
Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.
Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.
Had 3000 hits.
Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs. The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.
He also won 4GG.
He belongs in.
Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry... Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.
Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance. Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.
I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.
By that logic Mattingly should be in then.
Nope.
Ryan Howard should get in.
Nope.
Writers use your logic as of late, they have with Guerrero, Trammel, Morris, Hoffman and Raines.
None of them should be in.
There are a few more over the years that I scratch my head at also...
Again Biggio is 15th all-time in runs. Take a look at the five others below him.
But hey, we can disagree. I know you're wrong, lol.
Mattingly(5) & Howard(6) had about half the Prime year's Stats that Belle(10) had, and no, they should not be in. Belle should.
Not logic, when 12 seasons a player avg. is .295 40 HR & 130 RBI, tells me a HOFer. I know i would take that on my team for 12 years. Would you? I agree with you when i think of Trammel, Morris, Hoffman, i don't automatically think HOFers. Valdimir Guerrero i do think HOF. He was a 5-Tool player.
Johnny Damon scored more runs the Ken Griffey JR.
And yes, we can disagree, but i think both of us might be wrong>LOL
10 years does not make you a HOFer. This isn't Football.
The Damon stat to JR is just silly. JR was so much more of a player. He did steal a lot of bases though.
If you go by WAR Belle is only 40, Biggio is 65, Damon 56 and Griffey at 86.
That is a weird stat but it holds merit in a lot of arguments.
You don't think ther are players in the HOF who may have played 15-18 years, but only had 7-10 HOF worthy seasons?
That Damon Stat was meant to be silly and to prove a point when you mentioned Biggio's runs scored.
Maybe Don Baylor & Ron Hunt should be in the HOF for all of the HBP they had in their careers>LOL
Not sure exactly how that Algebra WAR Stat works, but does it take in account for base running and defense? Well, Biggio's OPS+ is 112 and Belle's OPS+ is 144 (100 is average from what i was told as i don't fully understand that Algebra stat either>LOL>But i thought i throw it out ther)
"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."
And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters.
He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.
Hall worthy numbers?
Hits? 1700, nope. HR? 381, nope. Runs? 974, nope. SB? 88, nope. Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...
What stats does he have that places him in the HOF? It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.
For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers. If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs... All of which Mr.Belle did not.
So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when 3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.
Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his career, based on a 162 games .295 40 HR 130 RBI's) >Probably a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG. OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB
Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.
Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.
Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.
Had 3000 hits.
Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs. The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.
He also won 4GG.
He belongs in.
Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry... Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.
Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance. Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.
I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.
Agree with you here. If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame. Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league. For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.
Biggio was in the top 10 for MVP voting 3 times and an All-Star 7 times.
Again with thinking like that you'd have some killer players with short bursts.
Baseball is about stats. They all mean something, so if you hit one of those milestones you will be going to the HOF.
I also think Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and A-Rod should be in too.
Belle was in the top 10 for MVP 5 times and a lot say he should've won in '95 when he was voted 2nd to Mo Vaughn. He probably didn't win because of the Media. Belle was an All Star 5 times.
I agree that those players you mentioned are HOF worthy.
Mattingly basically played 12 full seasons. The last 8 with the bad back.
What about Omar Visquel? Similar to Ozzie Smith with slightly better numbers. I know Omar played 5 more years. But Ozzie went 1st ballot. Even if he hadn't won a World Series I think they would have voted him in first ballot. But they both don't have what we consider HOF numbers.
Mattingly basically played 12 full seasons. The last 8 with the bad back.
What about Omar Visquel? Similar to Ozzie Smith with slightly better numbers. I know Omar played 5 more years. But Ozzie went 1st ballot. Even if he hadn't won a World Series I think they would have voted him in first ballot. But they both don't have what we consider HOF numbers.
Yeah, if Mattingly didn't have the back problem he gets the number for the HOF.
Vizquel might interesting. Because he was such a great SS, and he hit okay, be enough to get in the HOF?
"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."
And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters.
He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.
Hall worthy numbers?
Hits? 1700, nope. HR? 381, nope. Runs? 974, nope. SB? 88, nope. Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...
What stats does he have that places him in the HOF? It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.
For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers. If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs... All of which Mr.Belle did not.
So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when 3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.
Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his career, based on a 162 games .295 40 HR 130 RBI's) >Probably a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG. OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB
Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.
Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.
Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.
Had 3000 hits.
Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs. The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.
He also won 4GG.
He belongs in.
Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry... Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.
Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance. Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.
I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.
By that logic Mattingly should be in then.
Nope.
Ryan Howard should get in.
Nope.
Writers use your logic as of late, they have with Guerrero, Trammel, Morris, Hoffman and Raines.
None of them should be in.
There are a few more over the years that I scratch my head at also...
Again Biggio is 15th all-time in runs. Take a look at the five others below him.
But hey, we can disagree. I know you're wrong, lol.
Mattingly(5) & Howard(6) had about half the Prime year's Stats that Belle(10) had, and no, they should not be in. Belle should.
Not logic, when 12 seasons a player avg. is .295 40 HR & 130 RBI, tells me a HOFer. I know i would take that on my team for 12 years. Would you? I agree with you when i think of Trammel, Morris, Hoffman, i don't automatically think HOFers. Valdimir Guerrero i do think HOF. He was a 5-Tool player.
Johnny Damon scored more runs the Ken Griffey JR.
And yes, we can disagree, but i think both of us might be wrong>LOL
10 years does not make you a HOFer. This isn't Football.
The Damon stat to JR is just silly. JR was so much more of a player. He did steal a lot of bases though.
If you go by WAR Belle is only 40, Biggio is 65, Damon 56 and Griffey at 86.
That is a weird stat but it holds merit in a lot of arguments.
You don't think ther are players in the HOF who may have played 15-18 years, but only had 7-10 HOF worthy seasons?
That Damon Stat was meant to be silly and to prove a point when you mentioned Biggio's runs scored.
Maybe Don Baylor & Ron Hunt should be in the HOF for all of the HBP they had in their careers>LOL
Not sure exactly how that Algebra WAR Stat works, but does it take in account for base running and defense? Well, Biggio's OPS+ is 112 and Belle's OPS+ is 144 (100 is average from what i was told as i don't fully understand that Algebra stat either>LOL>But i thought i throw it out ther)
Biggio won GG and had more stolen bases by far than Belle.
Belles OPS should be higher because he had more xtra base hits and is based on On Base and Slugging. I would expect that.
WAR is Wins Above Replacement. It's how valuable a player is to a team. It accounts into everything. It shows the players all around worth. It's not an end all be all stat but when you look at other all-time greats it makes you see who is who.
"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."
And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters.
He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.
Hall worthy numbers?
Hits? 1700, nope. HR? 381, nope. Runs? 974, nope. SB? 88, nope. Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...
What stats does he have that places him in the HOF? It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.
For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers. If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs... All of which Mr.Belle did not.
So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when 3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.
Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his career, based on a 162 games .295 40 HR 130 RBI's) >Probably a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG. OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB
Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.
Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.
Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.
Had 3000 hits.
Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs. The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.
He also won 4GG.
He belongs in.
Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry... Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.
Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance. Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.
I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.
Agree with you here. If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame. Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league. For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.
Biggio was in the top 10 for MVP voting 3 times and an All-Star 7 times.
Again with thinking like that you'd have some killer players with short bursts.
Baseball is about stats. They all mean something, so if you hit one of those milestones you will be going to the HOF.
I also think Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and A-Rod should be in too.
Like Sandy Koufax. so yes killer bursts deserve consideration. Would you rather have 7 great seasons or 13 good ones? To me a burst of greatness is better than a longevity of good seasons.
Koufax is the ONLY player with that few good seasons to get in the HOF. He had 6 years?
Dimaggio only played 13 years but Belle isn't Dimaggio, not by a long shot.
The only other players that get in the HOF with insignificant numbers is by the Veterans Committee or whatever it is now. They vote in a bunch of players that should not get in like Ashburn and Irvin...
Good players but not great.
I think Belle was good but not HOF material...
If you don't look at just the numbers do you think Craig Biggio was a better player than Albert Belle, Don Mattingly, Will Clark, Ryan Howard? I don't
I do. Over time. Better fielder sans Mattingly. Better base stealer. Gritty player. The 4 you mentioned weren't gritty.
I appreciate longevity too which the 4 you mentioned do not have.
If Mattingly played at his peak the last 5 years of playing he would have some serious numbers.
That is just me though.
The other guys won't get in the HOF because of 10 years of good. Living through all these players careers Mattingly is the most nostalgic. He was the best player in the game for a few years but I wouldn't put him in for that.
So if Mike Trout's career ended next year because of injury by your theory Craig Biggio would be a better player than Mike Trout? sorry but that's just absurd.
"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."
And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters.
He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.
Hall worthy numbers?
Hits? 1700, nope. HR? 381, nope. Runs? 974, nope. SB? 88, nope. Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...
What stats does he have that places him in the HOF? It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.
For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers. If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs... All of which Mr.Belle did not.
So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when 3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.
Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his career, based on a 162 games .295 40 HR 130 RBI's) >Probably a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG. OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB
Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.
Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.
Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.
Had 3000 hits.
Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs. The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.
He also won 4GG.
He belongs in.
Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry... Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.
Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance. Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.
I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.
Agree with you here. If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame. Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league. For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.
Biggio was in the top 10 for MVP voting 3 times and an All-Star 7 times.
Again with thinking like that you'd have some killer players with short bursts.
Baseball is about stats. They all mean something, so if you hit one of those milestones you will be going to the HOF.
I also think Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and A-Rod should be in too.
Like Sandy Koufax. so yes killer bursts deserve consideration. Would you rather have 7 great seasons or 13 good ones? To me a burst of greatness is better than a longevity of good seasons.
Koufax is the ONLY player with that few good seasons to get in the HOF. He had 6 years?
Dimaggio only played 13 years but Belle isn't Dimaggio, not by a long shot.
The only other players that get in the HOF with insignificant numbers is by the Veterans Committee or whatever it is now. They vote in a bunch of players that should not get in like Ashburn and Irvin...
Good players but not great.
I think Belle was good but not HOF material...
If you don't look at just the numbers do you think Craig Biggio was a better player than Albert Belle, Don Mattingly, Will Clark, Ryan Howard? I don't
I do. Over time. Better fielder sans Mattingly. Better base stealer. Gritty player. The 4 you mentioned weren't gritty.
I appreciate longevity too which the 4 you mentioned do not have.
If Mattingly played at his peak the last 5 years of playing he would have some serious numbers.
That is just me though.
The other guys won't get in the HOF because of 10 years of good. Living through all these players careers Mattingly is the most nostalgic. He was the best player in the game for a few years but I wouldn't put him in for that.
So if Mike Trout's career ended next year because of injury by your theory Craig Biggio would be a better player than Mike Trout? sorry but that's just absurd.
That's funny. I didn't say that in the slightest but thank you for trying to put words in my mouth.
Trout is the better player between the two but he doesn't have the numbers to get into the HOF as of now.
Trout has been great for 7 years but not enough to have him in the HOF if he were to walk away right now.
Basically it boils down to being a good player over a long period of time. You can't be a great player for a short period and expect them to get into the HOF.
"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."
And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters.
He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.
Hall worthy numbers?
Hits? 1700, nope. HR? 381, nope. Runs? 974, nope. SB? 88, nope. Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...
What stats does he have that places him in the HOF? It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.
For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers. If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs... All of which Mr.Belle did not.
So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when 3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.
Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his career, based on a 162 games .295 40 HR 130 RBI's) >Probably a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG. OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB
Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.
Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.
Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.
Had 3000 hits.
Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs. The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.
He also won 4GG.
He belongs in.
Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry... Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.
Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance. Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.
I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.
Agree with you here. If you were never one of the top 10 or so players in your league at any time in your career I don't think you belong in the Hall of Fame. Biggio was very good but at no point was he really considered one of the best players in his league. For Hall of Fame a few dominant years means more to me than a long career piling up stats.
Biggio was in the top 10 for MVP voting 3 times and an All-Star 7 times.
Again with thinking like that you'd have some killer players with short bursts.
Baseball is about stats. They all mean something, so if you hit one of those milestones you will be going to the HOF.
I also think Palmiero, Clemens, Bonds, McGwire and A-Rod should be in too.
Like Sandy Koufax. so yes killer bursts deserve consideration. Would you rather have 7 great seasons or 13 good ones? To me a burst of greatness is better than a longevity of good seasons.
Koufax is the ONLY player with that few good seasons to get in the HOF. He had 6 years?
Dimaggio only played 13 years but Belle isn't Dimaggio, not by a long shot.
The only other players that get in the HOF with insignificant numbers is by the Veterans Committee or whatever it is now. They vote in a bunch of players that should not get in like Ashburn and Irvin...
Good players but not great.
I think Belle was good but not HOF material...
If you don't look at just the numbers do you think Craig Biggio was a better player than Albert Belle, Don Mattingly, Will Clark, Ryan Howard? I don't
I do. Over time. Better fielder sans Mattingly. Better base stealer. Gritty player. The 4 you mentioned weren't gritty.
I appreciate longevity too which the 4 you mentioned do not have.
If Mattingly played at his peak the last 5 years of playing he would have some serious numbers.
That is just me though.
The other guys won't get in the HOF because of 10 years of good. Living through all these players careers Mattingly is the most nostalgic. He was the best player in the game for a few years but I wouldn't put him in for that.
So if Mike Trout's career ended next year because of injury by your theory Craig Biggio would be a better player than Mike Trout? sorry but that's just absurd.
That's funny. I didn't say that in the slightest but thank you for trying to put words in my mouth.
Trout is the better player between the two but he doesn't have the numbers to get into the HOF as of now.
Trout has been great for 7 years but not enough to have him in the HOF if he were to walk away right now.
Basically it boils down to being a good player over a long period of time. You can't be a great player for a short period and expect them to get into the HOF.
if you don't think Mike Trout is a Hall of Famer if he walked away today then I guess their is no arguiing with you. Your criteria is strictly based on numbesr
That's funny. I didn't say that in the slightest but thank you for trying to put words in my mouth.
Trout is the better player between the two but he doesn't have the numbers to get into the HOF as of now.
Trout has been great for 7 years but not enough to have him in the HOF if he were to walk away right now.
Basically it boils down to being a good player over a long period of time. You can't be a great player for a short period and expect them to get into the HOF.
if you don't think Mike Trout is a Hall of Famer if he walked away today then I guess their is no arguiing with you. Your criteria is strictly based on numbesr
How do u think they get into the HOF? Of course it's stats.
You have to have numbers to back it up.
Trout has played 8 years and not one of his totals is more than Albert Belles.
He would never, ever get voted into the HOF if he walked away. To think so is just silly and not understanding what the BB HOF is to get in.
That's funny. I didn't say that in the slightest but thank you for trying to put words in my mouth.
Trout is the better player between the two but he doesn't have the numbers to get into the HOF as of now.
Trout has been great for 7 years but not enough to have him in the HOF if he were to walk away right now.
Basically it boils down to being a good player over a long period of time. You can't be a great player for a short period and expect them to get into the HOF.
if you don't think Mike Trout is a Hall of Famer if he walked away today then I guess their is no arguiing with you. Your criteria is strictly based on numbesr
How do u think they get into the HOF? Of course it's stats.
You have to have numbers to back it up.
Trout has played 8 years and not one of his totals is more than Albert Belles.
He would never, ever get voted into the HOF if he walked away. To think so is just silly and not understanding what the BB HOF is to get in.
of course it's stats but its not just the quantity of a stat. just because Craig Biggio has more hits than Albert Belle doesn't make him a better career hitter. it's just means he played longer. is this really hard to understand?
I don't know why I am arguing because the baseball Hall of Fame is a complete joke anyway. Any Hall of Fame that doesn't include the career Hits leader, career Home Run leader, and the guy with the most Cy Young Awards is not really relevant.
"Sorry, there'll be no words of sympathy here for Albert Belle. He was a surly jerk before he got hurt and now he's a hurt surly jerk....He was no credit to the game. Belle's boorish behavior should be remembered by every member of the Baseball Writers' Associationwhen it comes time to consider him for the Hall of Fame."
And that's why he's not in the HOF(which is BS), because based on his numbers he's a HOFer. Steve Carlton & Jim Rice weren't all warm & fuzzy with reporters.
He doesn't have the numbers to be IN the HOF.
Hall worthy numbers?
Hits? 1700, nope. HR? 381, nope. Runs? 974, nope. SB? 88, nope. Vince Coleman had more his rookie year...
What stats does he have that places him in the HOF? It really is becoming the Hall pf Good with thinking like this.
For a batter you need to have 3000 or 500 as numbers. If not you'd better have a whole bunch of RBI's and Runs... All of which Mr.Belle did not.
So, Craig Biggio was better then Albert Belle? I loved Biggio, but he was a compiler. He's a prime example of when 3,000 hits in a career doesn't belong in then HOF. Biggio is a prime example of someone who belongs in the Hall Of Very Good. Albert Belle only played 12 years(which hurt his chances at compiling more stats), but in 10 of those years he was a dominant player. In his last season he had 23 HR's & 103 RBI's. Ask John Hart who was the most feared hitter on those Tribe teams and he'll tell you it was Albert Belle, and that's when the Tribe had Jim Thome, Manny Ramierez, etc.
Belle's Stats (He averaged, for his career, based on a 162 games .295 40 HR 130 RBI's) >Probably a few players in the HOF who do NOT have those averages?
G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO AVG. OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB
Trust me i'm no Albert Belle , or a Tribe fan, but he's a HOFer for me.
Biggio is a perfect example, thank you.
Biggio has the Modern Major League Record for HBP just 2 shy of the record.
Had 3000 hits.
Had 400+ SB's, 600 plus dbls, is 15th all time in runs. The other 14 above him are or will be in the HOF and the other 14 below him are or will be in the HOF.
He also won 4GG.
He belongs in.
Belle's career was cut short but does not belong in, sorry... Longevity maters in Baseball unless you're Sandy Koufax.
Yes, Biggio is a good example ...of a compiler. How many Stats did he lead during a season? HBP? Okay, i guess. He lead in Runs a couple of years, 2B's 3 years , & SB one year. No other stats of signifcance. Biggio's high in RBI's is 88(he averaged 67RBI/season). He wasn't a dominant player.
I gave you Belles stats, and yes his career was only 12 years, but he was dominant for 10 of those years. That equals a HOFer to me.
By that logic Mattingly should be in then.
Nope.
Ryan Howard should get in.
Nope.
Writers use your logic as of late, they have with Guerrero, Trammel, Morris, Hoffman and Raines.
None of them should be in.
There are a few more over the years that I scratch my head at also...
Again Biggio is 15th all-time in runs. Take a look at the five others below him.
But hey, we can disagree. I know you're wrong, lol.
Mattingly(5) & Howard(6) had about half the Prime year's Stats that Belle(10) had, and no, they should not be in. Belle should.
Not logic, when 12 seasons a player avg. is .295 40 HR & 130 RBI, tells me a HOFer. I know i would take that on my team for 12 years. Would you? I agree with you when i think of Trammel, Morris, Hoffman, i don't automatically think HOFers. Valdimir Guerrero i do think HOF. He was a 5-Tool player.
Johnny Damon scored more runs the Ken Griffey JR.
And yes, we can disagree, but i think both of us might be wrong>LOL
10 years does not make you a HOFer. This isn't Football.
The Damon stat to JR is just silly. JR was so much more of a player. He did steal a lot of bases though.
If you go by WAR Belle is only 40, Biggio is 65, Damon 56 and Griffey at 86.
That is a weird stat but it holds merit in a lot of arguments.
You don't think ther are players in the HOF who may have played 15-18 years, but only had 7-10 HOF worthy seasons?
That Damon Stat was meant to be silly and to prove a point when you mentioned Biggio's runs scored.
Maybe Don Baylor & Ron Hunt should be in the HOF for all of the HBP they had in their careers>LOL
Not sure exactly how that Algebra WAR Stat works, but does it take in account for base running and defense? Well, Biggio's OPS+ is 112 and Belle's OPS+ is 144 (100 is average from what i was told as i don't fully understand that Algebra stat either>LOL>But i thought i throw it out ther)
Biggio won GG and had more stolen bases by far than Belle.
Belles OPS should be higher because he had more xtra base hits and is based on On Base and Slugging. I would expect that.
WAR is Wins Above Replacement. It's how valuable a player is to a team. It accounts into everything. It shows the players all around worth. It's not an end all be all stat but when you look at other all-time greats it makes you see who is who.
What else did Baylor do?
WTH is Ron Hunt?
SB?>"Yawn" Arlie Latham(yes i had to look him up) is 7th All time in stolen bases and is not in the HOF
WAR is not a concrete stat? Doesn't seem like it is to me.
Baylor mention was a joke because you bought up Biggio's HBP. Same as Ron Hunt who is in the top 10 All time for HBP and probably should be in the HOF>LOL
I'll ask again: You don't think a player who averaged for 12 seasons, .295 AVG. 40 HR & 130 RBI's is HOF worthy?
You don't think ther are players in the HOF who may have played 15-18 years, but only had 7-10 HOF worthy seasons?
That Damon Stat was meant to be silly and to prove a point when you mentioned Biggio's runs scored.
Maybe Don Baylor & Ron Hunt should be in the HOF for all of the HBP they had in their careers>LOL
Not sure exactly how that Algebra WAR Stat works, but does it take in account for base running and defense? Well, Biggio's OPS+ is 112 and Belle's OPS+ is 144 (100 is average from what i was told as i don't fully understand that Algebra stat either>LOL>But i thought i throw it out ther)
Biggio won GG and had more stolen bases by far than Belle.
Belles OPS should be higher because he had more xtra base hits and is based on On Base and Slugging. I would expect that.
WAR is Wins Above Replacement. It's how valuable a player is to a team. It accounts into everything. It shows the players all around worth. It's not an end all be all stat but when you look at other all-time greats it makes you see who is who.
What else did Baylor do?
WTH is Ron Hunt?
SB?>"Yawn" Arlie Latham(yes i had to look him up) is 7th All time in stolen bases and is not in the HOF
WAR is not a concrete stat? Doesn't seem like it is to me.
Baylor mention was a joke because you bought up Biggio's HBP. Same as Ron Hunt who is in the top 10 All time for HBP and probably should be in the HOF>LOL
I'll ask again: You don't think a player who averaged for 12 seasons, .295 AVG. 40 HR & 130 RBI's is HOF worthy?
Answered in order:
I like the SB. I always have. It can be very exciting in a game. Guess you aren't a fan? And again just because that guy is 7th doesn't make him a HOFer. You are taking things way out of context for the sake of your argument.
You aren't sold on WAR, that's fine. Just research it a little bit. Report back. I did say it is NOT an end all be all but it is impressive.
Again you take a person that did only 1 thing in the stat column and want to lump them in with everyone else for the sake of your argument and that doesn't work. It's the body of work. A career.
No. One is because he didn't avg 40 hr. If he did he'd have finished w 480 hr not the 380 he actually has. So you read a stat wrong somewhere. He avg 31 a year. If he did have 480 that would be something completely different.
You have to have numbers to back up being let in to the HOF.
That's funny. I didn't say that in the slightest but thank you for trying to put words in my mouth.
Trout is the better player between the two but he doesn't have the numbers to get into the HOF as of now.
Trout has been great for 7 years but not enough to have him in the HOF if he were to walk away right now.
Basically it boils down to being a good player over a long period of time. You can't be a great player for a short period and expect them to get into the HOF.
if you don't think Mike Trout is a Hall of Famer if he walked away today then I guess their is no arguiing with you. Your criteria is strictly based on numbesr
How do u think they get into the HOF? Of course it's stats.
You have to have numbers to back it up.
Trout has played 8 years and not one of his totals is more than Albert Belles.
He would never, ever get voted into the HOF if he walked away. To think so is just silly and not understanding what the BB HOF is to get in.
of course it's stats but its not just the quantity of a stat. just because Craig Biggio has more hits than Albert Belle doesn't make him a better career hitter. it's just means he played longer. is this really hard to understand?
I don't know why I am arguing because the baseball Hall of Fame is a complete joke anyway. Any Hall of Fame that doesn't include the career Hits leader, career Home Run leader, and the guy with the most Cy Young Awards is not really relevant.
The argument is if Belle is a HOFer. He is not.
Your second statement is partially correct.
Rose has mention in the HOF but isn't a member. He shouldn't be either. One cardinal rule is don't bet on baseball and he did.
I have mentioned earlier that Bonds and Clemens absolutely belong in the HOF. I agree that the writers have this holier than though attitude towards certain players where they knew what was going on and enjoyed the ride then turned on the players when it was in their best interest to do so.
Comments
Dimaggio only played 13 years but Belle isn't Dimaggio, not by a long shot.
The only other players that get in the HOF with insignificant numbers is by the Veterans Committee or whatever it is now. They vote in a bunch of players that should not get in like Ashburn and Irvin...
Good players but not great.
I think Belle was good but not HOF material...
I appreciate longevity too which the 4 you mentioned do not have.
If Mattingly played at his peak the last 5 years of playing he would have some serious numbers.
That is just me though.
The other guys won't get in the HOF because of 10 years of good. Living through all these players careers Mattingly is the most nostalgic. He was the best player in the game for a few years but I wouldn't put him in for that.
That Damon Stat was meant to be silly and to prove a point when you mentioned Biggio's runs scored.
Maybe Don Baylor & Ron Hunt should be in the HOF for all of the HBP they had in their careers>LOL
Not sure exactly how that Algebra WAR Stat works, but does it take in account for base running and defense? Well, Biggio's OPS+ is 112 and Belle's OPS+ is 144 (100 is average from what i was told as i don't fully understand that Algebra stat either>LOL>But i thought i throw it out ther)
I agree that those players you mentioned are HOF worthy.
What about Omar Visquel? Similar to Ozzie Smith with slightly better numbers. I know Omar played 5 more years. But Ozzie went 1st ballot. Even if he hadn't won a World Series I think they would have voted him in first ballot. But they both don't have what we consider HOF numbers.
Vizquel might interesting. Because he was such a great SS, and he hit okay, be enough to get in the HOF?
Belles OPS should be higher because he had more xtra base hits and is based on On Base and Slugging. I would expect that.
WAR is Wins Above Replacement. It's how valuable a player is to a team. It accounts into everything. It shows the players all around worth. It's not an end all be all stat but when you look at other all-time greats it makes you see who is who.
What else did Baylor do?
WTH is Ron Hunt?
Trout is the better player between the two but he doesn't have the numbers to get into the HOF as of now.
Trout has been great for 7 years but not enough to have him in the HOF if he were to walk away right now.
Basically it boils down to being a good player over a long period of time. You can't be a great player for a short period and expect them to get into the HOF.
You have to have numbers to back it up.
Trout has played 8 years and not one of his totals is more than Albert Belles.
He would never, ever get voted into the HOF if he walked away. To think so is just silly and not understanding what the BB HOF is to get in.
3000
500
300
130
61
714
1406
755
56
7
511
73
4191
70
4256
406
383
No googling. How many can you get?
3000 Clemente
500
300 Sutton?
130 Henderson steals
61 Maris
714 Ruth
1406
755 Aaron
56 DiMaggio
7 Nolan Ryan no hitters
511 Cy Young
73 Barry Bonds
4191 Carlton?
70 Mcgwire
4256
406
383 Nolan Ryan Ks?
I don't know why I am arguing because the baseball Hall of Fame is a complete joke anyway. Any Hall of Fame that doesn't include the career Hits leader, career Home Run leader, and the guy with the most Cy Young Awards is not really relevant.
WAR is not a concrete stat? Doesn't seem like it is to me.
Baylor mention was a joke because you bought up Biggio's HBP. Same as Ron Hunt who is in the top 10 All time for HBP and probably should be in the HOF>LOL
I'll ask again: You don't think a player who averaged for 12 seasons, .295 AVG. 40 HR & 130 RBI's is HOF worthy?
I like the SB. I always have. It can be very exciting in a game. Guess you aren't a fan? And again just because that guy is 7th doesn't make him a HOFer. You are taking things way out of context for the sake of your argument.
You aren't sold on WAR, that's fine. Just research it a little bit. Report back. I did say it is NOT an end all be all but it is impressive.
Again you take a person that did only 1 thing in the stat column and want to lump them in with everyone else for the sake of your argument and that doesn't work. It's the body of work. A career.
No. One is because he didn't avg 40 hr. If he did he'd have finished w 480 hr not the 380 he actually has. So you read a stat wrong somewhere. He avg 31 a year. If he did have 480 that would be something completely different.
You have to have numbers to back up being let in to the HOF.
Look he was a beast but he isn't Hall worthy...
Bonds and A-rod could have played longer at a high level.
Your second statement is partially correct.
Rose has mention in the HOF but isn't a member. He shouldn't be either. One cardinal rule is don't bet on baseball and he did.
I have mentioned earlier that Bonds and Clemens absolutely belong in the HOF. I agree that the writers have this holier than though attitude towards certain players where they knew what was going on and enjoyed the ride then turned on the players when it was in their best interest to do so.