Fan Club Tickets....

2

Comments

  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    Cosmo wrote:
    If so many people are getting shut out of tickets why not play some bigger venues? I mean LA has some big places to play aside from the 6000 or w/e seat Gibson. This isnt a band that should be playing small venues. Small venues are fine every once in a while for a change of place but why not play Staples instead of Gibson? Two nights at staples would accommodate about twelve thousand more fans then 4 nights at Gibson does.
    ...
    Probably because Staples Center is a horrible... HORRIBLE place for concerts. Great for basketball and hockey... HORRIBLE for concerts.
    The 'We Will Rock You' chant and 'Rock N' Roll pt. 1' sound great bouncing off the glass of 3 stories of luxury boxes at the sporting events... but, live music sounds like shit echoing off that much glass.
    I love the 4 smaller gig to 2 bigger gigs. We only get to buy for one of four from the fan club... but, who cares? We pair up with other Club members to get 2 of 4 and do what we need to to get the other two. This may result in FOUR great live experiences.
    AND... as we all witnessed... pretty much everyone that wanted a pair of tickets for L.A. GOT A PAIR OF TICKETS FOR L.A. I would say, that is a good model to employ.


    staples sucks period and having 2 shows there vs the gibson doesn't mean people still won't get shutout

    the universal amp shows are gonna be great....pj are trying something different...small venue, multiple shows...that's a win-win!!
  • Sorry you had such a hard time...it is incredibly frustrating sometimes...
    "No way to save someone who won't take the rope,and just lets go..."
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    norm wrote:
    ...staples sucks period and having 2 shows there vs the gibson doesn't mean people still won't get shutout

    the universal amp shows are gonna be great....pj are trying something different...small venue, multiple shows...that's a win-win!!
    ...
    Fuckin' Aye, Jack... er ... Norm.
    I would MUCH rather have ONE Universal show than two Staples Center shows. Pair up with a Fan Club member and one becomes 2... duke it out on the Ticketmaster to see what else might be out there... definately a win-win.
    ...
    and good luck to you tomorrow, bud... you are going to try to complete the set at the public onsale, right? Why not, eh?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    Cosmo wrote:
    norm wrote:
    ...staples sucks period and having 2 shows there vs the gibson doesn't mean people still won't get shutout

    the universal amp shows are gonna be great....pj are trying something different...small venue, multiple shows...that's a win-win!!
    ...
    Fuckin' Aye, Jack... er ... Norm.
    I would MUCH rather have ONE Universal show than two Staples Center shows. Pair up with a Fan Club member and one becomes 2... duke it out on the Ticketmaster to see what else might be out there... definately a win-win.
    ...
    and good luck to you tomorrow, bud... you are going to try to complete the set at the public onsale, right? Why not, eh?


    why not indeed!!

    i'm assume your doing the quadruplets???

    :mrgreen:
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    norm wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    norm wrote:
    ...staples sucks period and having 2 shows there vs the gibson doesn't mean people still won't get shutout

    the universal amp shows are gonna be great....pj are trying something different...small venue, multiple shows...that's a win-win!!
    ...
    Fuckin' Aye, Jack... er ... Norm.
    I would MUCH rather have ONE Universal show than two Staples Center shows. Pair up with a Fan Club member and one becomes 2... duke it out on the Ticketmaster to see what else might be out there... definately a win-win.
    ...
    and good luck to you tomorrow, bud... you are going to try to complete the set at the public onsale, right? Why not, eh?


    why not indeed!!

    i'm assume your doing the quadruplets???

    :mrgreen:
    ...
    Yessiree... i figure, if their going to offer them to me... i should give it a shot, right?
    If i get 'em... i get 'em... If i don't... I don't.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • mrs.smileymrs.smiley Posts: 422
    Rotten Joe wrote:
    TL2294 wrote:
    I feel for everyone that didn't get tickets, but the postcard system was a nightmare!! Sending in a card with your info and a money order and crossing your fingers that it got to the right place? No thanks!
    We used to do that for The Dead in the 80's,what memories

    They were even really "pretty tix" too-they WERE the days :mrgreen:
    '98-Camden 8/29
    '03-Philly Spectrum 4/28, Camden 7/5, Hershey 7/12
    '06-Camden 5/28
    '08-Camden 6/20
    '09-Closing Down the Philly Spectrum! 10/28, 10/30, & the Epic 10/31
    '09-EV Solo Tower Theater, Upper Darby, PA6/12
    '10-MSG1& MSG2, New York City, 5-20 & 5/21
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    Cosmo wrote:
    ...
    Yessiree... i figure, if their going to offer them to me... i should give it a shot, right?
    If i get 'em... i get 'em... If i don't... I don't.


    excatly!

    and this leads back to the op....there's never been a guarantee and everyone has an equal shot
  • mrs.smileymrs.smiley Posts: 422
    If so many people are getting shut out of tickets why not play some bigger venues? I mean LA has some big places to play aside from the 6000 or w/e seat Gibson. This isnt a band that should be playing small venues. Small venues are fine every once in a while for a change of place but why not play Staples instead of Gibson? Two nights at staples would accommodate about twelve thousand more fans then 4 nights at Gibson does.

    the problem is not the venue size or 10c It is the high demand Which makes the greedy ticketing agencies even greedier. Ticketbastard, Live Nation , etc allow very little to go to band/fan clubs & some like TB have their own ticket resale venders that get tix right off the top as do many other entities With a band like PJ u can't control demand-they're awesome & there isn't much to do. But start by not paying over face & not buying from greedy resellers-they are not true fans & don't care about true fans only exploiting us to make a buck! sometimes a shut-out is just a shut-out. As spoiled entitled Americans, maybe once in a while we need to just accept this & deal w/it. Life doesn't come w/a fuckin guarantee. Go home & just listen to your boots. Life doesn't end when you miss out on tix & life is too good to waste huge amounts of time bitchin about whatya can't have. I have been shut-out as often as I have been lucky. I am happy to see PJ when I can-when I can't well I have my cd's & PJ's music & more $ in my pocket! You all have some great ideas but reality is there are always gonna be unhappy shut-out people but life goes on!
    '98-Camden 8/29
    '03-Philly Spectrum 4/28, Camden 7/5, Hershey 7/12
    '06-Camden 5/28
    '08-Camden 6/20
    '09-Closing Down the Philly Spectrum! 10/28, 10/30, & the Epic 10/31
    '09-EV Solo Tower Theater, Upper Darby, PA6/12
    '10-MSG1& MSG2, New York City, 5-20 & 5/21
  • PJStatTrackerPJStatTracker Posts: 2,400
    If everyone could have a taste of what people just went through on the NIN site for the final shows, you'd be loving the 10C system...

    now THAT was a clusterfuck.
    Download the unofficial <a href="http://bit.ly/PJStatTracker">Pearl Jam Stat Tracker</a> app for iPhone/iPad. It's <em>FREE.</em>

    PM me with any comments or suggestions for the app - or weigh in <a href="http://forums.pearljam.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=167611
    ">here</a>.
    or
    <a href="http://www.facebook.com/pjstattracker">Join the discussion on facebook</a>

  • pjbugs007pjbugs007 Posts: 1,299
    I just go home and listen to John Denver:)
  • normnorm Posts: 31,146
    pjbugs007 wrote:
    I just go home and listen to John Denver:)


    with a rocky mountain high


    :mrgreen:
  • pjbugs007pjbugs007 Posts: 1,299
    no doubt!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    mrs.smiley wrote:
    the problem is not the venue size or 10c It is the high demand Which makes the greedy ticketing agencies even greedier. Ticketbastard, Live Nation , etc allow very little to go to band/fan clubs & some like TB have their own ticket resale venders that get tix right off the top as do many other entities With a band like PJ u can't control demand-they're awesome & there isn't much to do. But start by not paying over face & not buying from greedy resellers-they are not true fans & don't care about true fans only exploiting us to make a buck! sometimes a shut-out is just a shut-out. As spoiled entitled Americans, maybe once in a while we need to just accept this & deal w/it. Life doesn't come w/a fuckin guarantee. Go home & just listen to your boots. Life doesn't end when you miss out on tix & life is too good to waste huge amounts of time bitchin about whatya can't have. I have been shut-out as often as I have been lucky. I am happy to see PJ when I can-when I can't well I have my cd's & PJ's music & more $ in my pocket! You all have some great ideas but reality is there are always gonna be unhappy shut-out people but life goes on!
    ...
    I am proud to say that i have never bought a scalped ticket. I guess it stems from my utter disgust of them from the 1970s when we used to camp out at the Forum Box Office for The Who or Led Zeppelin tickets. The scalpers would show up in the morning in vans and a bunch of kids would pile out and get in line. The scalpers would also go down the line and ask how many tickets you were getting... if you said 2 (and the limit was 6) they would offer to pay you if you bought 6 and sold them the 4 for an extra couple of bucks. they would sell them for giant profits later.
    And yeah... I get shut out of TicketMaster... and i go to the venue to see what I can get. If I can get in through the front by locating a floating ticket for face value, cool. I even got into that Pearl Jam gig at the Fonda for free... and a Foo Fighter record release party for 20 bucks. I never feed the scalpers because I do not want to be a part of something I despise so much.
    if i don't get tickets to the remaining Universal Ampitheater shows... I'll still go up there on the day of the shows to chek it out. If I get in, great. if not... that's okay. I can grab a bite to eat and head down to the Hotel Cafe and catch whoever is playing there. It's not a life or death situation... worse things could happen to me.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • mrs.smiley wrote:
    If so many people are getting shut out of tickets why not play some bigger venues? I mean LA has some big places to play aside from the 6000 or w/e seat Gibson. This isnt a band that should be playing small venues. Small venues are fine every once in a while for a change of place but why not play Staples instead of Gibson? Two nights at staples would accommodate about twelve thousand more fans then 4 nights at Gibson does.

    the problem is not the venue size or 10c It is the high demand Which makes the greedy ticketing agencies even greedier. Ticketbastard, Live Nation , etc allow very little to go to band/fan clubs & some like TB have their own ticket resale venders that get tix right off the top as do many other entities With a band like PJ u can't control demand-they're awesome & there isn't much to do. But start by not paying over face & not buying from greedy resellers-they are not true fans & don't care about true fans only exploiting us to make a buck! sometimes a shut-out is just a shut-out. As spoiled entitled Americans, maybe once in a while we need to just accept this & deal w/it. Life doesn't come w/a fuckin guarantee. Go home & just listen to your boots. Life doesn't end when you miss out on tix & life is too good to waste huge amounts of time bitchin about whatya can't have. I have been shut-out as often as I have been lucky. I am happy to see PJ when I can-when I can't well I have my cd's & PJ's music & more $ in my pocket! You all have some great ideas but reality is there are always gonna be unhappy shut-out people but life goes on!

    I realize all that but I was just thinking if 10 percent of the venue goes to the fanclub then 10 percent of a 6000 seat Gibson is only about 600 tickets, or 300 fan club members that can get tickets. Thats nothing. Playing larger venues would roughly triple the amount of fan club tickets up for grabs. Staples was just an example, ive never seen a concert there so I will take others word that the sound is bad. There are other large venues in LA - my only PJ show was at the forum and personally the sound there was the worst ive ever heard (back in 06). I have seen two concerts at the Hollywood Bowl and personally they are the best acoustics I have ever heard. Not sure how many seats the Bowl has, but I bet its more then what the Gibson offers. Has PJ ever played the Bowl?
    http://mastersofourdomain.blogspot.com/

    My Movie/Music Reviews & Sports Blog
  • mrs.smiley wrote:
    If so many people are getting shut out of tickets why not play some bigger venues? I mean LA has some big places to play aside from the 6000 or w/e seat Gibson. This isnt a band that should be playing small venues. Small venues are fine every once in a while for a change of place but why not play Staples instead of Gibson? Two nights at staples would accommodate about twelve thousand more fans then 4 nights at Gibson does.

    the problem is not the venue size or 10c It is the high demand Which makes the greedy ticketing agencies even greedier. Ticketbastard, Live Nation , etc allow very little to go to band/fan clubs & some like TB have their own ticket resale venders that get tix right off the top as do many other entities With a band like PJ u can't control demand-they're awesome & there isn't much to do. But start by not paying over face & not buying from greedy resellers-they are not true fans & don't care about true fans only exploiting us to make a buck! sometimes a shut-out is just a shut-out. As spoiled entitled Americans, maybe once in a while we need to just accept this & deal w/it. Life doesn't come w/a fuckin guarantee. Go home & just listen to your boots. Life doesn't end when you miss out on tix & life is too good to waste huge amounts of time bitchin about whatya can't have. I have been shut-out as often as I have been lucky. I am happy to see PJ when I can-when I can't well I have my cd's & PJ's music & more $ in my pocket! You all have some great ideas but reality is there are always gonna be unhappy shut-out people but life goes on!

    I realize all that but I was just thinking if 10 percent of the venue goes to the fanclub then 10 percent of a 6000 seat Gibson is only about 600 tickets, or 300 fan club members that can get tickets. Thats nothing. Playing larger venues would roughly triple the amount of fan club tickets up for grabs. Staples was just an example, ive never seen a concert there so I will take others word that the sound is bad. There are other large venues in LA - my only PJ show was at the forum and personally the sound there was the worst ive ever heard (back in 06). I have seen two concerts at the Hollywood Bowl and personally they are the best acoustics I have ever heard. Not sure how many seats the Bowl has, but I bet its more then what the Gibson offers. Has PJ ever played the Bowl?

    I just looked it uo - Hollywood Bowl seats over 17,000. So ten percent of that is close to 2,000 tickets, which would allow 1000 fan club members entrance. Thats around three times the amount provided by the gibson.

    I realize people will still get shut out but more will be able to get tickets. And if 3-4 shows were played at the bowl with a limit of one show per member then you greatly increase the number of us who can get tickets.
    http://mastersofourdomain.blogspot.com/

    My Movie/Music Reviews & Sports Blog
  • TEEJAM11TEEJAM11 Posts: 335
    This topic again O BOY!!!!!!!!!
  • SOLAT319SOLAT319 Posts: 4,594
    JohnDalton wrote:
    I feel very badly for the people who run the 10 Club. It has got to be a thankless task.

    I don't think they give a rat's ass about not getting thanks.
    I have no patience for bad music and stupid people...

    The whole world will be different soon the whole world will be RELIEVED

    #resistgezi #resistturkey #resisttaksim #direnturkiye #direngezi
    #standingman #duranadam
  • FP61580FP61580 Posts: 30
    In my opinion, if so many people are unhappy, the ticketing system is not a good one.
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    FP61580 wrote:
    In my opinion, if so many people are unhappy, the ticketing system is not a good one.
    It is about as good as it could get without being able to guarantee everyone tickets. You need to realize that no matter what ticketing system they use, the same amount of people would still be shut out of 10c tickets. Therefore, it is unfair to say that "if so many people are unhappy, the ticketing system is not a good one" because the same amount of people would still be unhappy no matter what the 10c does.
  • mookieblalockmookieblalock Posts: 3,395
    aNiMaL wrote:
    It is about as good as it could get without being able to guarantee everyone tickets. You need to realize that no matter what ticketing system they use, the same amount of people would still be shut out of 10c tickets. Therefore, it is unfair to say that "if so many people are unhappy, the ticketing system is not a good one" because the same amount of people would still be unhappy no matter what the 10c does.

    Exactly.

    Thank you!
  • StrykerStryker Upstate, NY Posts: 585
    No matter half you slice it, the current system is flawed. As mentioned earlier, if they really wanted to do something they would limit the amount of show a 10c member can buy tickets to. As a member that tries to get tickets to as many show as possible, I would be all in favor of limiting the number of show a member can buy tickets to.


    Also, they need new/better/more severs.
  • comatose_253comatose_253 Posts: 271
    vierello wrote:
    Every ticket in the arena should be available to fan club members

    10C can't do this . . . if you book Key Arena you have to use Ticketmaster and Ticketmaster will only let you sell a small percentage of tickets directly to fan club members
    vierello wrote:
    I don't want to pay for a membership and then have a 10% chance at getting tickets

    I recommend you cancel your membership and not renew
    vierello wrote:
    I want to be guaranteed a ticket to the show I want to go to

    How many bong hits have you had today? Wait . . . how old are you (10, 11 or maybe 12)? Go join some other fan club that guarantees tickets to the show you want to go to! I don't think one exists.

    You really need to cancel your 10C membership. I think you will be happier.
  • GTFLYGIRLGTFLYGIRL NewYork Posts: 760
    aNiMaL wrote:
    FP61580 wrote:
    In my opinion, if so many people are unhappy, the ticketing system is not a good one.
    It is about as good as it could get without being able to guarantee everyone tickets. You need to realize that no matter what ticketing system they use, the same amount of people would still be shut out of 10c tickets. Therefore, it is unfair to say that "if so many people are unhappy, the ticketing system is not a good one" because the same amount of people would still be unhappy no matter what the 10c does.

    Exactly... AND ... the OP spoke about people who get tix rubbing it in other peoples faces...

    Those would be the people that AREN'T unhappy with the system... and i think there are many of us. Most of us just keep relatively quiet about it.

    I got for every show I tried for and it was a bunch... i also... left work early (all those damn doctor appointments!!) and at times paid a babysitter so I could devote my full attention to making sure I have tickets to the shows I want... and I have a crummy little computer that's run through a cheap ass modem. It's luck... but it's also attitude, perseverance and commitment to getting what you want.
  • GTFLYGIRL wrote:
    aNiMaL wrote:
    FP61580 wrote:
    In my opinion, if so many people are unhappy, the ticketing system is not a good one.
    It is about as good as it could get without being able to guarantee everyone tickets. You need to realize that no matter what ticketing system they use, the same amount of people would still be shut out of 10c tickets. Therefore, it is unfair to say that "if so many people are unhappy, the ticketing system is not a good one" because the same amount of people would still be unhappy no matter what the 10c does.

    Exactly... AND ... the OP spoke about people who get tix rubbing it in other peoples faces...

    Those would be the people that AREN'T unhappy with the system... and i think there are many of us. Most of us just keep relatively quiet about it.

    I got for every show I tried for and it was a bunch... i also... left work early (all those damn doctor appointments!!) and at times paid a babysitter so I could devote my full attention to making sure I have tickets to the shows I want... and I have a crummy little computer that's run through a cheap ass modem. It's luck... but it's also attitude, perseverance and commitment to getting what you want.

    But mostly luck haha
    http://mastersofourdomain.blogspot.com/

    My Movie/Music Reviews & Sports Blog
  • JOEJOEJOEJOEJOEJOE Posts: 10,711
    I realize all that but I was just thinking if 10 percent of the venue goes to the fanclub then 10 percent of a 6000 seat Gibson is only about 600 tickets, or 300 fan club members that can get tickets. Thats nothing. Playing larger venues would roughly triple the amount of fan club tickets up for grabs. Staples was just an example, ive never seen a concert there so I will take others word that the sound is bad. There are other large venues in LA - my only PJ show was at the forum and personally the sound there was the worst ive ever heard (back in 06). I have seen two concerts at the Hollywood Bowl and personally they are the best acoustics I have ever heard. Not sure how many seats the Bowl has, but I bet its more then what the Gibson offers. Has PJ ever played the Bowl?[/quote]

    I just looked it uo - Hollywood Bowl seats over 17,000. So ten percent of that is close to 2,000 tickets, which would allow 1000 fan club members entrance. Thats around three times the amount provided by the gibson.

    I realize people will still get shut out but more will be able to get tickets. And if 3-4 shows were played at the bowl with a limit of one show per member then you greatly increase the number of us who can get tickets.[/quote]

    PJ is playing a smaller venue to get a buzz going for the new album. There are 1200 10C tickets for each night (as opposed to the normal 10%). PJ isn't popular enough to play 3 or 4 nights at the bowl, so it wouldn't make sense to play multiple nights at a bigger venue simply to accommodate more fan club members.
  • JOEJOEJOE wrote:
    I realize all that but I was just thinking if 10 percent of the venue goes to the fanclub then 10 percent of a 6000 seat Gibson is only about 600 tickets, or 300 fan club members that can get tickets. Thats nothing. Playing larger venues would roughly triple the amount of fan club tickets up for grabs. Staples was just an example, ive never seen a concert there so I will take others word that the sound is bad. There are other large venues in LA - my only PJ show was at the forum and personally the sound there was the worst ive ever heard (back in 06). I have seen two concerts at the Hollywood Bowl and personally they are the best acoustics I have ever heard. Not sure how many seats the Bowl has, but I bet its more then what the Gibson offers. Has PJ ever played the Bowl?

    I just looked it uo - Hollywood Bowl seats over 17,000. So ten percent of that is close to 2,000 tickets, which would allow 1000 fan club members entrance. Thats around three times the amount provided by the gibson.

    I realize people will still get shut out but more will be able to get tickets. And if 3-4 shows were played at the bowl with a limit of one show per member then you greatly increase the number of us who can get tickets.[/quote]

    PJ is playing a smaller venue to get a buzz going for the new album. There are 1200 10C tickets for each night (as opposed to the normal 10%). PJ isn't popular enough to play 3 or 4 nights at the bowl, so it wouldn't make sense to play multiple nights at a bigger venue simply to accommodate more fan club members.[/quote]

    I still would like to see them play the Bowl at some point because it is such an awesome place to see a show. I saw Aerosmith and Rush there and neither show was full because its so big. I think PJ would fit just fine there.
    http://mastersofourdomain.blogspot.com/

    My Movie/Music Reviews & Sports Blog
  • vedder_soupvedder_soup Posts: 5,861
    FP61580 wrote:
    In my opinion, if so many people are unhappy, the ticketing system is not a good one.

    there were no complaints about the west coast ticketing :lol:
    2003 - Sydney x3,
    2006 - Reading Festival,
    2007 - Katowice, London, Nijmegen, Rock Werchter,
    2008 - MSG x2, Hartford, Mansfield x2, Beacon Theater,
    2009 - Melbourne, Sydney,
    2010 - I watched it go to fire!
    2011 - EV Brisbane x3, Newcastle, Sydney x3,
    2012 - Manchester x 2, Amsterdam x2, Prague, Berlin x2, Stockholm, Oslo, Copenhagen,
    2014 - Sydney, EV Sydney x3

    I wave to all my Friends... Yeah!
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    FP61580 wrote:
    In my opinion, if so many people are unhappy, the ticketing system is not a good one.
    Completely agree. If you run a business and your customers all of a sudden are flooding your system with complaints, the best move is to improve the business because it's obviously flawed.

    Adding many more shows wouldn't hurt either. ;)
  • aNiMaLaNiMaL Posts: 7,117
    Jeanwah wrote:
    FP61580 wrote:
    In my opinion, if so many people are unhappy, the ticketing system is not a good one.
    Completely agree. If you run a business and your customers all of a sudden are flooding your system with complaints, the best move is to improve the business because it's obviously flawed.
    So, you really think there is a system out there that would make everyone happy with the same amount of tickets available? I mean seriously, before you start spouting your mouth off about a supposed "flawed" system, offer up your best solution that would supposedly "fix" the "problems." I'm all ears.

    But until then, maybe you will realize that with the restrictions that have always been in place, this is about as good and fair as it could ever get. And, just because people whine and complain that they didn't get what they wanted and they didn't really understand how it works, that that is not indicative of "something wrong" with the system.
  • comatose_253comatose_253 Posts: 271
    aNiMaL wrote:
    Jeanwah wrote:
    FP61580 wrote:
    In my opinion, if so many people are unhappy, the ticketing system is not a good one.
    Completely agree. If you run a business and your customers all of a sudden are flooding your system with complaints, the best move is to improve the business because it's obviously flawed.
    So, you really think there is a system out there that would make everyone happy with the same amount of tickets available? I mean seriously, before you start spouting your mouth off about a supposed "flawed" system, offer up your best solution that would supposedly "fix" the "problems." I'm all ears.

    But until then, maybe you will realize that with the restrictions that have always been in place, this is about as good and fair as it could ever get. And, just because people whine and complain that they didn't get what they wanted and they didn't really understand how it works, that that is not indicative of "something wrong" with the system.

    Exactly!

    I'm in the 253 too . . . do you ever frequent Satellite Coffee?
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