Song of the day (Daughter)
JDE-PJ
Posts: 721
The third song on VS, this one is one of this band true staples for many fans, so lets here from some of you out there.
Daughter
RrVwMirror
1/12/01 8:21 PM
SOTD: .....DAUGHTER
El Conquistador
9/1/99 08:10 AM
don't call me DAUGHTER
Daughter
You guys ready...
Alone...listless...breakfast table in an otherwise empty room
Young girl...violins...center of her own attention
The, mother reads aloud, child, tries to understand it
Tries to make her proud
The shades go down, it's in her head
Painted room...can't deny there's something wrong...
Don't call me Daughter, not fit to
The picture kept will remind me
Don't call me Daughter, not fit to
The picture kept will remind me
Don't call me...
She holds the hand that holds her down
She will...rise above...ooh...oh...
Don't call me Daughter, not fit to }
The picture kept will remind me } (2x)
Don't call me Daughter, not fit to be }
The picture kept will remind me }
Don't call me...
The shades go down (2x)
The shades go, go, go...
RrVwMirror
9/1/99 11:40 AM
Re: don't call me DAUGHTER
Just thought I would add that the second line, is printed as follows in the album sleeve... "Young girl,...violins (ence)...center of her own...."
I think this is an important play on words here!
It's funny when things change so much, it's all state of mind...
jcborges
9/1/99 3:50 PM
Re: don't call me DAUGHTER
This song, to me, is about child abuse.
However, I've never been sure in what form. I've always seen it in the light of the sense of the parents burdening the child with too many expectations and then punishing her physically, spanking her, for not living up to them. But then that's me, and it's a partial view, because it used to happen to me.
My father is 50 years older than I am, and he was educated in the strict discipline of the early century Portuguese bourgeoisie, combined with the right-wing ideology of the dictatorship that ruled the country for 40 years, in which physical punishment was deemed appropriate as an education technique, so he held it as such in regard to me. Add that to military discipline and war trauma and you get the picture of the austere figure he was. He also regrets deeply to this day having dropped out of college to lead a bohemian life for years, squandering his father's fortune almost to the last dime, and he was so very determined not to let it happen to me, so, for years, he would show no appreciation for all my straight A's in school, but would yell at me and occasionally hit me when I got anything below that level, or whenever I showed any signs of deviating from the straight path he had outlined for me.
So to me, that is what is happening here. The parents don't really care for the girl, or it is what it seems, except insofar as they can display her proudly as a mark of their own achievement, and demand too much from her, and stifle her personality to mold her to their likes and desires. In this view, the shades symbolize the filter they've built between the girl and her true self, an iron shell of which she can't get rid for now, and she "holds the hand that holds her down", as in she can't break free from her parents' grasp, and so she cherishes it, since it's the only form of affection, however perverted, that she has, since their influence has probably made her incapable of relating normally with people of her age, a prisoner in a world of adults.
Eventually, she will break free from the grasp, "she will rise above". In "Rearview Mirror", the song talks about past trauma and ends with "finally the shades are raised", which leads me to believe that it's all linked, that it's the same girl and the same shades that once were cast upon her. But I'll leave that to the discussion on that song.
Some people see in this song something beyond what I've said, in the form of sexual abuse, which may be so, but it's not the way I feel the song, and I don't think it's necessary to extrapolate to that point, even if possibly it is what the author intended.
This is a great song, even if it is a bit minimalistic in the form, like several others in "Vs.", like "Animal" and "Glorified G", without the ellaborated intrincacies of most of the songs in "Ten". But that "easy" appearance is what made it so popular - even today it gets a lot of airplay, and it's the only PJ song that gets consistently played in discos in Portugal to this day - and that made me slightly allergic to it, from hearing it so many times and seeing so many people humming along to it without trying to feel it or understand it, and not caring the least for the rest of PJ's work - in fact, even downplaying it because it's different from this mega-hit. So, even if I can admire it, it is not in my favorites' list; I invariably prefer the more intense and complex stuff (and, I admit, with that "inner circle", "real fan" aura).
<b>João da Câmara Borges</b>
"Shower the people you love with love, show them the way you feel"
RrVwMirror
9/1/99 5:52 PM
Re: don't call me DAUGHTER
WOW...great interp jcborges......I agree completely with your view...the Violins (ence) exemplifies the kind of abuse you refer to, with too many expexctations of her, then punishing her if she is anything less than 'perfect'.
It is so nice to have you back....boy have I missed your articulate interpretations!.....As always, another job well done!
It's funny when things change so much, it's all state of mind...
brokenarrow
9/1/99 7:16 PM
Damn It's GOOD to have you back!
...As my Rerviewmirrored friend expressed.......
.......Wonderful interpretation...and I'm sorry you had to experience such pain,
and I'm sorry Wendi had to experience so much pain also...and if Theresa is out there...my heart is with you too.
For me, this song has felt very personal...(again). Not for physical abuse, but for the mental abuse I've endured from my non-existent father....I don't even want to capitalize father because he wasn't one. Never a Birthday card, Christmas card, maybe a drunken phone call in the middle of the night (if I was lucky). He would always call me by the nickname I had given myself as a toddler, because I couldn't pronounce my name correctly. When I was little, I loved him calling me that....as the years passed....I HATED him calling me that.
I had asked him to stop calling me by the nickname....no one has said it ever since.....
He hadn't earned the right to call me his Daughter. As I grew older, years would pass before I would get a call....I believe the longest stretch was about 8 or 9 years...Then I had turned 19...was going on a cross country trip for 3 months in 1982...so I stayed a week with him in ElPaso. I called him, mainly because I had grown up mentally, and figured it would be good for me to at least see the man. I'm glad I did. Within that one week, I started telling him what to do....not to drink so fuckin' much etc....He told me I was Sassy just like my Momma...(His words, not mine).
I said, Hey, you try growing up in NYC and not turning into a wise-ass!
We laughed, and we cried.....Thank God my Mother divorced him....She was the total opposite of him...very strong and very loving..(Thank God!)
He died in 1987....Chronic Brain Syndrome and Liver Damage....alcohol killed him.
We spoke a few times between '82 and '87.....but he still didn't feel like a dad, he was just this man who really fucked up.......really fucked up.
brokenarrow>
ps...I apologize this is so long, With 'Alive' I couldn't write as much....I guess I feel more comfortable with all of you, for you have all shared so much with me!
RrVwMirror
9/2/99 01:54 AM
Re: Damn It's GOOD to have you back!
jcborges,wendi & Brokenarrow...
I am just sitting here staring at my keyboard, my mind and my hands are just numb from your sad stories....
I am sorry, I am speechless.....
I wish I could think of something comforting to say to all of you....
I am glad you all felt comfortable enough to share your story with us....
Thank God for this song....sing it out and sing it loud....get it out!!!!
Sometimes music is the best therapy! It can be medicine for the soul sometimes!
Thank you for sharing...That means a lot!
It's funny when things change so much, it's all state of mind...
JDE-PJ
9/2/99 02:33 AM
bravo job on this song guys
Just as RrVwmirror stated thank's for opening up,
Jcborges,Wendi & Brokenarrow
Loved this version on the second MSG show as Eddie and us the fans sung back and forth
the shades go down line!
I know someday you will have a beautiful life
Jason
Daughter
RrVwMirror
1/12/01 8:21 PM
SOTD: .....DAUGHTER
El Conquistador
9/1/99 08:10 AM
don't call me DAUGHTER
Daughter
You guys ready...
Alone...listless...breakfast table in an otherwise empty room
Young girl...violins...center of her own attention
The, mother reads aloud, child, tries to understand it
Tries to make her proud
The shades go down, it's in her head
Painted room...can't deny there's something wrong...
Don't call me Daughter, not fit to
The picture kept will remind me
Don't call me Daughter, not fit to
The picture kept will remind me
Don't call me...
She holds the hand that holds her down
She will...rise above...ooh...oh...
Don't call me Daughter, not fit to }
The picture kept will remind me } (2x)
Don't call me Daughter, not fit to be }
The picture kept will remind me }
Don't call me...
The shades go down (2x)
The shades go, go, go...
RrVwMirror
9/1/99 11:40 AM
Re: don't call me DAUGHTER
Just thought I would add that the second line, is printed as follows in the album sleeve... "Young girl,...violins (ence)...center of her own...."
I think this is an important play on words here!
It's funny when things change so much, it's all state of mind...
jcborges
9/1/99 3:50 PM
Re: don't call me DAUGHTER
This song, to me, is about child abuse.
However, I've never been sure in what form. I've always seen it in the light of the sense of the parents burdening the child with too many expectations and then punishing her physically, spanking her, for not living up to them. But then that's me, and it's a partial view, because it used to happen to me.
My father is 50 years older than I am, and he was educated in the strict discipline of the early century Portuguese bourgeoisie, combined with the right-wing ideology of the dictatorship that ruled the country for 40 years, in which physical punishment was deemed appropriate as an education technique, so he held it as such in regard to me. Add that to military discipline and war trauma and you get the picture of the austere figure he was. He also regrets deeply to this day having dropped out of college to lead a bohemian life for years, squandering his father's fortune almost to the last dime, and he was so very determined not to let it happen to me, so, for years, he would show no appreciation for all my straight A's in school, but would yell at me and occasionally hit me when I got anything below that level, or whenever I showed any signs of deviating from the straight path he had outlined for me.
So to me, that is what is happening here. The parents don't really care for the girl, or it is what it seems, except insofar as they can display her proudly as a mark of their own achievement, and demand too much from her, and stifle her personality to mold her to their likes and desires. In this view, the shades symbolize the filter they've built between the girl and her true self, an iron shell of which she can't get rid for now, and she "holds the hand that holds her down", as in she can't break free from her parents' grasp, and so she cherishes it, since it's the only form of affection, however perverted, that she has, since their influence has probably made her incapable of relating normally with people of her age, a prisoner in a world of adults.
Eventually, she will break free from the grasp, "she will rise above". In "Rearview Mirror", the song talks about past trauma and ends with "finally the shades are raised", which leads me to believe that it's all linked, that it's the same girl and the same shades that once were cast upon her. But I'll leave that to the discussion on that song.
Some people see in this song something beyond what I've said, in the form of sexual abuse, which may be so, but it's not the way I feel the song, and I don't think it's necessary to extrapolate to that point, even if possibly it is what the author intended.
This is a great song, even if it is a bit minimalistic in the form, like several others in "Vs.", like "Animal" and "Glorified G", without the ellaborated intrincacies of most of the songs in "Ten". But that "easy" appearance is what made it so popular - even today it gets a lot of airplay, and it's the only PJ song that gets consistently played in discos in Portugal to this day - and that made me slightly allergic to it, from hearing it so many times and seeing so many people humming along to it without trying to feel it or understand it, and not caring the least for the rest of PJ's work - in fact, even downplaying it because it's different from this mega-hit. So, even if I can admire it, it is not in my favorites' list; I invariably prefer the more intense and complex stuff (and, I admit, with that "inner circle", "real fan" aura).
<b>João da Câmara Borges</b>
"Shower the people you love with love, show them the way you feel"
RrVwMirror
9/1/99 5:52 PM
Re: don't call me DAUGHTER
WOW...great interp jcborges......I agree completely with your view...the Violins (ence) exemplifies the kind of abuse you refer to, with too many expexctations of her, then punishing her if she is anything less than 'perfect'.
It is so nice to have you back....boy have I missed your articulate interpretations!.....As always, another job well done!
It's funny when things change so much, it's all state of mind...
brokenarrow
9/1/99 7:16 PM
Damn It's GOOD to have you back!
...As my Rerviewmirrored friend expressed.......
.......Wonderful interpretation...and I'm sorry you had to experience such pain,
and I'm sorry Wendi had to experience so much pain also...and if Theresa is out there...my heart is with you too.
For me, this song has felt very personal...(again). Not for physical abuse, but for the mental abuse I've endured from my non-existent father....I don't even want to capitalize father because he wasn't one. Never a Birthday card, Christmas card, maybe a drunken phone call in the middle of the night (if I was lucky). He would always call me by the nickname I had given myself as a toddler, because I couldn't pronounce my name correctly. When I was little, I loved him calling me that....as the years passed....I HATED him calling me that.
I had asked him to stop calling me by the nickname....no one has said it ever since.....
He hadn't earned the right to call me his Daughter. As I grew older, years would pass before I would get a call....I believe the longest stretch was about 8 or 9 years...Then I had turned 19...was going on a cross country trip for 3 months in 1982...so I stayed a week with him in ElPaso. I called him, mainly because I had grown up mentally, and figured it would be good for me to at least see the man. I'm glad I did. Within that one week, I started telling him what to do....not to drink so fuckin' much etc....He told me I was Sassy just like my Momma...(His words, not mine).
I said, Hey, you try growing up in NYC and not turning into a wise-ass!
We laughed, and we cried.....Thank God my Mother divorced him....She was the total opposite of him...very strong and very loving..(Thank God!)
He died in 1987....Chronic Brain Syndrome and Liver Damage....alcohol killed him.
We spoke a few times between '82 and '87.....but he still didn't feel like a dad, he was just this man who really fucked up.......really fucked up.
brokenarrow>
ps...I apologize this is so long, With 'Alive' I couldn't write as much....I guess I feel more comfortable with all of you, for you have all shared so much with me!
RrVwMirror
9/2/99 01:54 AM
Re: Damn It's GOOD to have you back!
jcborges,wendi & Brokenarrow...
I am just sitting here staring at my keyboard, my mind and my hands are just numb from your sad stories....
I am sorry, I am speechless.....
I wish I could think of something comforting to say to all of you....
I am glad you all felt comfortable enough to share your story with us....
Thank God for this song....sing it out and sing it loud....get it out!!!!
Sometimes music is the best therapy! It can be medicine for the soul sometimes!
Thank you for sharing...That means a lot!
It's funny when things change so much, it's all state of mind...
JDE-PJ
9/2/99 02:33 AM
bravo job on this song guys
Just as RrVwmirror stated thank's for opening up,
Jcborges,Wendi & Brokenarrow
Loved this version on the second MSG show as Eddie and us the fans sung back and forth
the shades go down line!
I know someday you will have a beautiful life
Jason
I know someday you will have a beautiful Life
Jason
Jason
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
9/2/99 08:44 AM
Re: Damn It's GOOD to have you back!
Thanks for sharing, Brokenarrow. This song really hits home with me too. Except my father was there, kinda. My father was and is a total alcoholic and used to stay away for days. My mother doesn't drink but she was pretty much numb is the only way I can describe her. I can remember things like my dad throwing the Christmas Tree in the yard and starting it on fire and trying to drag it in the house while we all screamed. Waking us up in the middle of the night so he could yell and rant at us. He was alway punching this one or that one, or punching holes in the walls, because he came home to find you making a sandwich in the kitchen or because you were making to much noise, NOT because you were smoking a cigarette or drinking a beer or weren't doing your homework. Nothing any of us could do was right and he was always telling us how bad we were. I can remember we would celebrate because my dad was in a rehab (which happened many times), not because he was getting help, because he wouldn't be home. When I was about 13 my father came to the park and dragged me home down the street by my hair and my older brother came busting in the house, threw my dad down and starting screaming at him not to ever touch me again or he would kill him. My father never did, again. I can remember begging my mom to divorce my dad. I can only touch the surface with this subject, I didn't start getting angry until I was about eleven and realized how other people lived. And if bad wasn't enough when my little brother died when I was twelve, it all got worse. My dad couldn't hold down a job and my mom just really turned inward. My oldest sister paid the morgage on the house. I'd have to say I was pretty much brought up by my brothers and sisters. They took us shopping, clothed us, bathed us, cleaned the house and gave us our chores and most of all, loved us younger ones. I also like the line in Go "Supposed I abused you, just passing it on." I love my parents but also have been angry with them for passing it on, because when I hear about things that happened to them during their childhoods, it makes me cry. Mine was happy compared to theirs.
"You know what it's like" EV
RrVwMirror
9/2/99 08:50 AM
Re: Damn It's GOOD to have you back!
Evenkat...once again I am speechless....and so sorry for what you had to endure!
It's funny when things change so much, it's all state of mind...
brokenarrow
9/2/99 09:38 AM
Oh evenkat...
......You know, after I met my dad, I realised that my up-bringing would have been like yours.....My Mom said there was always a loaded gun in the house, and either she was going to kill him, or he would kill her.
Evenkat, You're so wonderful....I'm sorry you had such a rough young life.
But we're here, we can talk about it...and quite frankly....
WE ALL KICK ASS!!!!!!!
We've grown so beautifully, taken our experiences, and we fly with them...
We've learned how "Not to Be".........
love you evenkat.....and you all have such kind words for all of us...
I love all of you guys too!!!!!!
brokenarrow>
PJMom
9/3/99 5:26 PM
Re: Don't call me daughter either...
It amazes me how many of you have had the same types of problems with parents. It is probably the most difficult job there is...you give someone life and hope that you will not make the same mistakes that your parents did. Sometimes it works and sometimes you find your mother's voice coming out of your own mouth. For me, I have not had alcoholic abusive parents but my Dad is an obsessive-compulsive with ADHD. Try growing up with someone who is a neat freak, who insisted on hand washing every time you turn around, who is going all the time but can't take the time to listen to you. It is amazing that I ended up as sane as I did.
evenkat
9/3/99 5:42 PM
Re: Thanks, too.
I'm fine, I've learned it's my past. In spite of everything I really had great support from family and friends and I can remember a lot of great fun times, too.
Actually, the first few times I heard Daughter I didn't like it. It hit me too hard. Then after learning the words, it felt more like a rebirthing.
I also thought that the one line was saying "she will ride the bus." Funny, the day after I turned 18 I moved out of the house and took a bus to Lake George and lived in my first apartment.
But, after learning the song says, "she will rise above," liked it even better.
"You know what it's like" EV
JamFan
9/3/99 10:38 PM
Re: Don't call me daughter either...
All i have to say is that this song is fucking great
I don't want to take what you can give. I would rather starve that eat your bread.-EV
Theresa3.15
9/10/99 10:37 PM
Re: Damn It's GOOD to have you back!
Sorry for being a little late on this...it's been busy.
Thanks brokenarrow also for sharing. For me, this song touches me deeply. I don't know Ed's exact interpretation, I can only offer my own. It seems to me that it's about the Daughter being abused. I can't really go into my whole story...much too long.
I've come to accept what happened to me. However, it still remains painful (I'm sure you all understand). I will say that I was abused in every sense of the word (physical, mental, etc...no need to go further) by my real father and an alcoholic step-father. Needless to say, my childhood and innocence was ruined. I was terrorized, stalked, neglected, traumatized, and left in the cold on at least seven occasions. The seventh being the last.
My faith in God carried me through what I can only say was the depths of Hell. I would never, ever be taken. I never lost my love, my heart, or soul through it all.
My dad has only visited my one time in eleven years. I don't know where my step-dad is. I suppose he's died from drugs and alcohol. I visited my real dad on about five occasions. I still see the rust on the door locks he changed on me. I speak to him sometimes. However, you can't break through a wall that doesn't accept any responsibility, let alone his own flesh and blood.
I don't want anyone to pity me. I'm ALIVE and in love with a beautiful man God gave to me on Christmas night (1986). I have an overabundance of love, inner beauty, heart, and soul from all I endured.
On a happier note, if it wasn't for the struggles, I would not be the person that I am today and would never have met my soul-mate. Also, I would not have appreciated the depths of PJ's music. My heart goes out to all who have endured abuse. It's good to know that we are not alone...
Peace and Love,
Theresa
I let my music take me where my heart wants to go....
~C.S.
RrVwMirror
2/16/01 2:27 PM
Re: SOTD: .....DAUGHTER
UP for angelene
I let my music take me where my heart wants to go....
~C.S.
amok
2/16/01 2:33 PM
(((((((((RrVwMirror))))))))))
i feel for you . i would think this song is something what you said or the exact thing..i love the song and its tags..i have had friends who were abused and its not cool at all .. so i know how it must have been like.. also to give you a smile i was 1year(s) old in 1986
"gengar is the best poke'mon" -ed
angelene
2/16/01 2:40 PM
Re: SOTD: .....DAUGHTER
Thank you...when I get home from work tonight, I'll add my own interpretation, a bit longer than the one I posted earlier....
-
i'm a fish, i'm a cool fish, i'm a colorful fish, i'm alive, i'm allowed to be free
Mod x 2
2/18/01 12:29 PM
Re: SOTD: .....DAUGHTER
Pearl Jam content bump.............
Not_For_Kyle
2/18/01 12:59 PM
Re: SOTD: .....DAUGHTER
What's that mean, a "Pearl Jam Content Bump?"
"I'm a thief. I'm a liar. I'm George Bush and my son is an asshole"-EV Va Beach 08/03/00
RrVwMirror
2/18/01 1:00 PM
Re: SOTD: .....DAUGHTER
still waiting for angelene's interp! :-)
I let my music take me where my heart wants to go....
~C.S.
RrVwMirror
2/18/01 1:01 PM
Re: SOTD: .....DAUGHTER
this post contains pearl jam content..... :-)
I let my music take me where my heart wants to go....
~C.S.
Jason
empty school, young girl, violence, the center of
her own intention, but now, father reads aloud
child tries to understand him, tries to make
her brown. The shades go down into her hand,
painted room, canteen eyes, something wrong....
the picture crept will remind me...
There's a message that's kinda personal to me
within this song. Just thought I'd share
my version with y'all. Maybe you'll like my
lyric changes, maybe not. But there it is,
anyway. Daughter's a great tune. Very moving.
Your interpretations are meaningful, as well.
Thanks.
Hahaha.