The Ocean. Fishing & Whaling. Sustainable? Illegal? Over fished?

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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,215
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Fishing, when done right, like in Alaska, is sustainable.
    Choosing to miss the point.
    I guess you missed mine in that if done right the fish population can still be saved. 

    Good points.  Alaska seems to do a good job at conservation.  Alaska is a fascinating State.  It's on my bucket list of destinations.
    One would think so, but according to this article they rank about in the middle:

    My step daughter just started a new job in Alaska as the Executive Director of the Chamber of Commerce for Ketchikan Alaska, so it's an almost sure thing we will visit up there next year- my first time!  Ketchikan sound s like a cool (as in weather and culture) place to visit.  looking forward to it.

    OK when it comes to fishing Alaska does a great job in conservation and sustainability.

    I've mentioned this before and I'll repeat it.  Here is what started it all.

    Alaska had all but fished out Alaskan King crab to the point of 10% of it's population in the late 70's.  It was so low that they never thought that it would replenish itself.  Because of this Alaska wrote into their constitution sustainability so that the travesty of the King Crab loss would never happen again.

    Alaska had developed quotas and have observers on fishing vessels to track the fish population whether it be fish or crab.

    I got to see this as I was working up there in the fishing industry for 2 years. 

    It truly is amazing in what they have accomplished.

    Salmon still have free run there with the hatcheries that help promote population.

    There are two fish species that thrive in Alaska that have been all but fished to extinction in the Atlantic.  Those are Cod and Salmon.

    I always praise Alaska for what they have done with their fishing industry and maintaining sustainability.

    Tuna is the next fish species that should be protected.
    I hope you're right about that but I'm still boycotting all sea food all the time for the rest of my life.  Like my Pop used to say, "I'm a stubborn Dutchman."
    @brianlux Please do me a favor and read up on the King crab biomass loss in the late 70's.  What is happening now is purely amazing with the catches now.

    I actually own the NatGeo magazine that discusses the crab crash.

    When I was in Alaska there were certain ships that were transformed into fishing boats rather than crab boats.  There were a bunch of vessels that made the change from crab to fish because there was no crab to catch.  Cod, salmon or pollock was the way to go to still make money.

    It is such a fascinating subject to me.
    Thanks for the info, my friend.  The thing is, I take a more holistic approach to this sort of thing.  It's all connected and everything begins and ends with the oceans.  I'm glad some isolated spots are doing better.
    "We are cruelly trapped between what we would like to be and what we actually are."
    -James Baldwin
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.




  • mike86mike86 Posts: 156
    brianlux said:
    mike86 said:
    Fishing, when done right, like in Alaska, is sustainable.

    What about the practice of salmon "ranching"? Do you consider that part of sustainable fishing practices?
    https://seashepherd.org/campaigns/virushunter/

    here's a lin thats really interesting and talking about that topic. 
    Last year we went down to S.F. to meet and great the crew of the R/V Martin Sheen that is working that campaign.  What a wonderful, dedicated group of folks!  Some of the crew had taken off from their regular work for a year to volunteer.  The ships cook left her work to volunteer full time permanently with the R/V Martin Sheen crew. 


    If you would only know the amount of dedicated pearl jam fans within that organisation ;-)
    Follow the Strangest Tribe
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,215
    mike86 said:
    brianlux said:
    mike86 said:
    Fishing, when done right, like in Alaska, is sustainable.

    What about the practice of salmon "ranching"? Do you consider that part of sustainable fishing practices?
    https://seashepherd.org/campaigns/virushunter/

    here's a lin thats really interesting and talking about that topic. 
    Last year we went down to S.F. to meet and great the crew of the R/V Martin Sheen that is working that campaign.  What a wonderful, dedicated group of folks!  Some of the crew had taken off from their regular work for a year to volunteer.  The ships cook left her work to volunteer full time permanently with the R/V Martin Sheen crew. 


    If you would only know the amount of dedicated pearl jam fans within that organisation ;-)
    True?  I'm the only one I know of!
    "We are cruelly trapped between what we would like to be and what we actually are."
    -James Baldwin
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.




  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 41,849
    edited August 7
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Fishing, when done right, like in Alaska, is sustainable.
    Choosing to miss the point.
    I guess you missed mine in that if done right the fish population can still be saved. 

    Good points.  Alaska seems to do a good job at conservation.  Alaska is a fascinating State.  It's on my bucket list of destinations.
    One would think so, but according to this article they rank about in the middle:

    My step daughter just started a new job in Alaska as the Executive Director of the Chamber of Commerce for Ketchikan Alaska, so it's an almost sure thing we will visit up there next year- my first time!  Ketchikan sound s like a cool (as in weather and culture) place to visit.  looking forward to it.

    That shows you what I know.  Maybe Alaska has an abundance of wildlife and fish because it is the lowest populated state ...
    Yes, and it has such huge expanses of wilderness.  I just hope that the most habitable parts of that state don't become over-run in the not-to-distant future.
    Over - run by people?  I do not think that will happen, if that's what you mean.  If not I apologize.  Alaska is to cold for most people, which is why people flock to California ... mostly nice weather.
    It will for sure happen. The Southern parts of the northern hemisphere are becoming less and less habitable, and the north is warming up right along with the rest of the world. A northern migration of populations is absolutely inevitable IMO, as they run out of water and it's too hot for habitation in more southern climes. I'm thinking northern real estate in Alaska and the Canadian territories are looking pretty damn good right now while it's still super cheap. They won't be forever. I am seriously considering using my eventual inheritance to buy a place way up north before everyone else gets on board - I refuse to spend my retirement in a fucking oven.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 1,843
    People from the lower 48 and Southern Canada are not going to be moving to Alaska or the far North of Canada.  The vast majority of people from the the lower 48 and southern Canada wouldn't last 2 weeks in the winter up north.  Very few people I know bitch about the warm weather (including the humidity) ... but most people I know are not fans of winter ...


  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 41,849
    edited August 11
    People from the lower 48 and Southern Canada are not going to be moving to Alaska or the far North of Canada.  The vast majority of people from the the lower 48 and southern Canada wouldn't last 2 weeks in the winter up north.  Very few people I know bitch about the warm weather (including the humidity) ... but most people I know are not fans of winter ...


    The whole point is that northern regions are warming up too, and will be more bearable. Yes, there will be a northern migration as southern states become less and less habitable and their economies collapse, and i didn't just mean to the arctic circle dude. They will flood into the northern states, and Orgon and Washington and BC as well as some to Alaska (I assume you know I don't mean that everyone will). And plenty of people in Vancouver and the Okanagan will move further north as the south coast and interior heat up (and affordability is terrible). Towns in Northern BC have actually started advertising their housing affordability on Vancouver buses. I see as from the cities of Pronce George and stuff, with claims that you can move there and actually afford a nice house and still have money left over. This kind of thing will just get more and more common as towns and cities further north grow.
    Humans have and will continue to make cold climates perfectly livable, and as the world's population grows development in the north will continue. Are you thinking that people will move to the arctic and be homeless, and immediately freeze to death? Is that why they wouldn't last 2 minutes? There are nice cities and towns all over the north, with nice warm homes in them, lol.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,215
    PJ_Soul said:
    People from the lower 48 and Southern Canada are not going to be moving to Alaska or the far North of Canada.  The vast majority of people from the the lower 48 and southern Canada wouldn't last 2 weeks in the winter up north.  Very few people I know bitch about the warm weather (including the humidity) ... but most people I know are not fans of winter ...


    The whole point is that northern regions are warming up too, and will be more bearable. Yes, there will be a northern migration as southern states become less and less habitable and their economies collapse, and i didn't just mean to the arctic circle dude. They will flood into the northern states, and Orgon and Washington and BC as well as some to Alaska (I assume you know I don't mean that everyone will). And plenty of people in Vancouver and the Okanagan will move further north as the south coast and interior heat up (and affordability is terrible). Towns in Northern BC have actually started advertising their housing affordability on Vancouver buses. I see as from the cities of Pronce George and stuff, with claims that you can move there and actually afford a nice house and still have money left over. This kind of thing will just get more and more common as towns and cities further north grow.
    Humans have and will continue to make cold climates perfectly livable, and as the world's population grows development in the north will continue. Are you thinking that people will move to the arctic and be homeless, and immediately freeze to death? Is that why they wouldn't last 2 minutes? There are nice cities and towns all over the north, with nice warm homes in them, lol.
    Yeah, northward movement has already started in a big way.  I visited my brother up on Washington's Olympic Peninsula for the first time in 1988.  He had been there for about 5 years.  I ended up living there myself fro '89 to '93 and watched to grow quickly.  And now the place is getting overrun. 

    I've mentioned that my step-daughter recently became head of the Ketchikan, Alaska Chamber of Commerce.  I'm guessing she will see a lot more people moving into her area.  It's already gotten to be kind of a "hot-spot" for younger adults. 

    This northward movement will continue and I think the biggest complaint, rather than the cold, will be the short winter days and maybe some complaints about not enough dark time in the summer for sleeping..  Maybe a good time to invest in full-spectrum lighting systems and black out curtains.
    "We are cruelly trapped between what we would like to be and what we actually are."
    -James Baldwin
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.




  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 1,843
    PJ_Soul said:
    People from the lower 48 and Southern Canada are not going to be moving to Alaska or the far North of Canada.  The vast majority of people from the the lower 48 and southern Canada wouldn't last 2 weeks in the winter up north.  Very few people I know bitch about the warm weather (including the humidity) ... but most people I know are not fans of winter ...


    The whole point is that northern regions are warming up too, and will be more bearable. Yes, there will be a northern migration as southern states become less and less habitable and their economies collapse, and i didn't just mean to the arctic circle dude. They will flood into the northern states, and Orgon and Washington and BC as well as some to Alaska (I assume you know I don't mean that everyone will). And plenty of people in Vancouver and the Okanagan will move further north as the south coast and interior heat up (and affordability is terrible). Towns in Northern BC have actually started advertising their housing affordability on Vancouver buses. I see as from the cities of Pronce George and stuff, with claims that you can move there and actually afford a nice house and still have money left over. This kind of thing will just get more and more common as towns and cities further north grow.
    Humans have and will continue to make cold climates perfectly livable, and as the world's population grows development in the north will continue. Are you thinking that people will move to the arctic and be homeless, and immediately freeze to death? Is that why they wouldn't last 2 minutes? There are nice cities and towns all over the north, with nice warm homes in them, lol.
    The point being Alaska and the far north of Canada will never be warm enough for the vast majority of people.  To go along with cold the north is a very inhospitable place to live and only the the strong survive there...


  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 41,849
    PJ_Soul said:
    People from the lower 48 and Southern Canada are not going to be moving to Alaska or the far North of Canada.  The vast majority of people from the the lower 48 and southern Canada wouldn't last 2 weeks in the winter up north.  Very few people I know bitch about the warm weather (including the humidity) ... but most people I know are not fans of winter ...


    The whole point is that northern regions are warming up too, and will be more bearable. Yes, there will be a northern migration as southern states become less and less habitable and their economies collapse, and i didn't just mean to the arctic circle dude. They will flood into the northern states, and Orgon and Washington and BC as well as some to Alaska (I assume you know I don't mean that everyone will). And plenty of people in Vancouver and the Okanagan will move further north as the south coast and interior heat up (and affordability is terrible). Towns in Northern BC have actually started advertising their housing affordability on Vancouver buses. I see as from the cities of Pronce George and stuff, with claims that you can move there and actually afford a nice house and still have money left over. This kind of thing will just get more and more common as towns and cities further north grow.
    Humans have and will continue to make cold climates perfectly livable, and as the world's population grows development in the north will continue. Are you thinking that people will move to the arctic and be homeless, and immediately freeze to death? Is that why they wouldn't last 2 minutes? There are nice cities and towns all over the north, with nice warm homes in them, lol.
    The point being Alaska and the far north of Canada will never be warm enough for the vast majority of people.  To go along with cold the north is a very inhospitable place to live and only the the strong survive there...


    You keep forgetting g about climate change. Also, you seem to have a misconception about the north, and for some reason you seem to think I am talking about the North Pole. Did you get your impressions of more northern communities and Alaskan cities from books written in the 1800s?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,215
    Besides my step-daughter, I've gotten to know two couples who have lived and worked in Alaska and met and talked to a few others and the strong sense I get is  that the southern archipelago of Alaska/ Canada and some of the interior areas of both Alaska and Canada as well are very livable already and will become both more so with warming and more populated with migration of people from the south. 

    I'm very concerned that the last places that are the least damaged are primed to be inundated and ruined rather quickly. It's happened all over the world for some time and I've seen it happen relentlessly here in the west since mid 1900's (it really started here in the west in the 1800's).
    "We are cruelly trapped between what we would like to be and what we actually are."
    -James Baldwin
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.




  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 1,843
    brianlux said:
    Besides my step-daughter, I've gotten to know two couples who have lived and worked in Alaska and met and talked to a few others and the strong sense I get is  that the southern archipelago of Alaska/ Canada and some of the interior areas of both Alaska and Canada as well are very livable already and will become both more so with warming and more populated with migration of people from the south. 

    I'm very concerned that the last places that are the least damaged are primed to be inundated and ruined rather quickly. It's happened all over the world for some time and I've seen it happen relentlessly here in the west since mid 1900's (it really started here in the west in the 1800's).
    Go spend a winter in Alaska or the north of Canada??  Let me know how you make out?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,215
    brianlux said:
    Besides my step-daughter, I've gotten to know two couples who have lived and worked in Alaska and met and talked to a few others and the strong sense I get is  that the southern archipelago of Alaska/ Canada and some of the interior areas of both Alaska and Canada as well are very livable already and will become both more so with warming and more populated with migration of people from the south. 

    I'm very concerned that the last places that are the least damaged are primed to be inundated and ruined rather quickly. It's happened all over the world for some time and I've seen it happen relentlessly here in the west since mid 1900's (it really started here in the west in the 1800's).
    Go spend a winter in Alaska or the north of Canada??  Let me know how you make out?
    Actually, I'm planning on it- hopefully next year (I'm still a working old fool).  I think I would like it.  I've already spent winters near the Canadian border.  No problemo! 

    I like holing up.  It's 12:55 in the AM where I am.  Dark, quiet, alone.  Perfect.

    Those who am close to who have spent winters up there have had not complaints.

    I also know people who would not like it at all.  I would never advise those people to move there.  In fact, the fewer who do the better. 

    But lets follow that stats over however long we do this and see what happens.
    "We are cruelly trapped between what we would like to be and what we actually are."
    -James Baldwin
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.




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