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Does anyone know ANYTHING about this shirt??????

rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
edited July 2016 in Lost Dogs
This is oddly my holy grail. I bought it at the 03 CLE show and lost it. It's blue and has Neanderthals holding guns. I have vinyl and shirts to trade but would rather pay cash for it.

I wear an XL but would be fine with an XXL. Might even consider a large.

Thanks!
Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
(EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
(EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
Post edited by rbrum7 on

Comments

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    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    Anyone even know these exist? Can anyone confirm they remember seeing these at the merch stands that tour?

    I've actually never been able to find a picture of one on the internet or seen one on that auction site. I did see one for auction that was from an earlier tour but had a bigger Neanderthal logo and was red.

    I'd feel better if I knew I didn't step into some crazy time warp that night in a parallel universe or something! :D
    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
  • Options
    Edved007Edved007 Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,020
    You're not crazy...I was at that show at the Gund and clearly remember 2 things. Eddie falling off the stage right in front of me and trying to buy that shirt but they didn't have/were out of mediums by the time I got inside to the booth.

    Josh.
    95' - 7/9
    98' - 6/26, 6/27, 6/29, 8/26, 9/22
    03' - 4/25
    06' - 6/29, 6/30
    07' - 8/05
    09' - 8/23
    11' - 9/03, 9/04
    12' - 9/30
    13' - 7/16, 7/19, 10/21, 10/22, 11/15, 11/16, 12/06
    14' - 06/28, 06/29, 10/1, 10/03, 10/16, 10/17, 10/20, 10/22
    15' - 11/20, 11/22
    16' - 4/21, 4/26, 4/28, 4/29, 5/1, 5/2, 7/9, 8/5, 8/7, 8/20, 8/22
    17' - 4/7
    18' - 7/1, 7/3, 7/5, 8/8, 8/10, 8/18, 8/20, 9/4
    21' - 10/1, 10/2
    22' - 7/12, 7/14, 9/6, 9/8
  • Options
    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    Thanks Josh...great to know I wasn't losing it, haha. Now I just need someone to actually have one and want to sell or trade it.

    By the way, I remember Ed falling off the stage that night as well. Have you been to any other CLE shows?
    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
  • Options
    Edved007Edved007 Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,020
    No, that was my only one. I'm from Milwaukee so usually hit all the Alpine and/or Chicago shows. My brother went to college at Denision near Columbus. So my friend and I drove down, visited him for the weekend and caught that show. It was one of my top shows though, and I've been to couple dozen, and to this day I think those were the best 10C seats I had, front and center.

    Josh.
    95' - 7/9
    98' - 6/26, 6/27, 6/29, 8/26, 9/22
    03' - 4/25
    06' - 6/29, 6/30
    07' - 8/05
    09' - 8/23
    11' - 9/03, 9/04
    12' - 9/30
    13' - 7/16, 7/19, 10/21, 10/22, 11/15, 11/16, 12/06
    14' - 06/28, 06/29, 10/1, 10/03, 10/16, 10/17, 10/20, 10/22
    15' - 11/20, 11/22
    16' - 4/21, 4/26, 4/28, 4/29, 5/1, 5/2, 7/9, 8/5, 8/7, 8/20, 8/22
    17' - 4/7
    18' - 7/1, 7/3, 7/5, 8/8, 8/10, 8/18, 8/20, 9/4
    21' - 10/1, 10/2
    22' - 7/12, 7/14, 9/6, 9/8
  • Options
    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    Edved007 wrote:
    No, that was my only one. I'm from Milwaukee so usually hit all the Alpine and/or Chicago shows. My brother went to college at Denision near Columbus. So my friend and I drove down, visited him for the weekend and caught that show. It was one of my top shows though, and I've been to couple dozen, and to this day I think those were the best 10C seats I had, front and center.

    Josh.

    Did you hit up Alpine Valley last September?
    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
  • Options
    Edved007Edved007 Milwaukee, WI Posts: 1,020
    Of course! You no how pumped I was that they did PJ20 in my own backyard! Alpine is a great venue and it's apparent they like it to! You able to be there? I saw them there twice in 98, twice in 03, and then twice last fall. Saw Vedder solo there too when he took part in the Tibetan freedom concert...think that was 99...
    95' - 7/9
    98' - 6/26, 6/27, 6/29, 8/26, 9/22
    03' - 4/25
    06' - 6/29, 6/30
    07' - 8/05
    09' - 8/23
    11' - 9/03, 9/04
    12' - 9/30
    13' - 7/16, 7/19, 10/21, 10/22, 11/15, 11/16, 12/06
    14' - 06/28, 06/29, 10/1, 10/03, 10/16, 10/17, 10/20, 10/22
    15' - 11/20, 11/22
    16' - 4/21, 4/26, 4/28, 4/29, 5/1, 5/2, 7/9, 8/5, 8/7, 8/20, 8/22
    17' - 4/7
    18' - 7/1, 7/3, 7/5, 8/8, 8/10, 8/18, 8/20, 9/4
    21' - 10/1, 10/2
    22' - 7/12, 7/14, 9/6, 9/8
  • Options
    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    You had to be jacked when you found out AV was the venue. Yeah, I went. Me and my wife made the drive up from Cleveland for both nights. Great time, I just wish we took more pictures.
    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
  • Options
    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    4 years later and still looking BUMP
    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
  • Options
    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    Bump
    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
  • Options
    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    Please help!

    At this point just looking for someone else other than me and the gentleman who commented years ago in this thread and confirmed he remembers the shirt from the show.

    I literally check eBay once a week and have never seen it.
    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
  • Options
    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    Still have never seen this shirt anywhere. I check eBay from time to time still and even do Google images searches.

    At this point I'd just love to see a picture of the shirt to remember it. Shot in the dark and a needle in a hay stack, but bumping this in case anyone has a pic or something. Anything. 
    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
  • Options
    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 38,985
    Does it look like the one on the right?
    Image result for pearl jam evolution shirt
  • Options
    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,000
    edited May 2018
    well I just realized the comment I responded to was 6 years old.
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • Options
    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 38,985
    mace1229 said:
    well I just realized the comment I responded to was 6 years old.
    He did reply today though. 
  • Options
    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    Yup, I replied today to spark up the conversation. 

    No, it is not the one pictured above on the right that is red with the yellow Cro-Magnon man. That I believe is from the Yield 98 tour. 

    The one I'm trying to find has the same logo, but it is multiple cro-magnon men in a row, each holding a gun. It's almost like the Beatles Abbey Road cover with the same gorilla looking dude, if that makes any sense, ha. 
    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
  • Options
    CopperTomCopperTom Posts: 2,990
    If I had to guess, since no one on knows anything about it, and since the shirt featured a recycled 1998 design on a 2003 item - bootleg.  
    http://www.livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=28
  • Options
    ryph raphryph raph Posts: 887
    I have the 1998 print of this shirt.
    It's white with black print.
    Got it at the Blossom Music Center show, summer of 98.
    10-26-91 Cleveland
    4-2-92
    7-29-92
    5-4-95 Hovercraft / Cleveland
    8-26-98
    4-25-03
    5-20-06
    8-21-08 E.V. Chicago
    10-31-09 Philadelphia
    5-09-10 Cleveland
    5-10-10 Buffalo
    6-26-11 E.V. Detroit
    10-11-13 Pittsburgh
    10-12-13 Buffalo
    10-29-13 Charlottesville
    4-18-16 Hampton
    8-22-16 Chicago

  • Options
    lolobugglolobugg BLUE RDGE MTNS Posts: 8,189
    I remember this shirt. I thought it was from the 2000 tour though.

    livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446

    1995- New Orleans, LA  : New Orleans, LA

    1996- Charleston, SC

    1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN

    2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN

    2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA

    2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)

    2006- Cincinnati, OH

    2008- Columbia, SC

    2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2

    2010- Bristow, VA

    2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL

    2012- Atlanta, GA

    2013- Charlotte, NC

    2014- Cincinnati, OH

    2015- New York, NY

    2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA

    2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY

    2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2

    2020- Nashville, TN 

    2022- Smashville 

    2023- Austin, TX x2

    2024- Baltimore

  • Options
    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    CopperTom said:
    If I had to guess, since no one on knows anything about it, and since the shirt featured a recycled 1998 design on a 2003 item - bootleg.  
    Ha, I would never buy a bootleg shirt. It was sold at the merch stand inside. 
    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
  • Options
    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    Edved007 said:
    You're not crazy...I was at that show at the Gund and clearly remember 2 things. Eddie falling off the stage right in front of me and trying to buy that shirt but they didn't have/were out of mediums by the time I got inside to the booth.

    Josh.
    And this gentleman confirmed back in 2012 that he saw it inside as well. 
    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
  • Options
    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    ryph raph said:
    I have the 1998 print of this shirt.
    It's white with black print.
    Got it at the Blossom Music Center show, summer of 98.
    Does it have multiple cro-magnon men on it? Do you mind posting a pic? Or messaging me one. 

    Thanks!
    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
  • Options
    ryph raphryph raph Posts: 887
    This is not the shirt you are searching for.
    [as I wave my hand in front of you]
    10-26-91 Cleveland
    4-2-92
    7-29-92
    5-4-95 Hovercraft / Cleveland
    8-26-98
    4-25-03
    5-20-06
    8-21-08 E.V. Chicago
    10-31-09 Philadelphia
    5-09-10 Cleveland
    5-10-10 Buffalo
    6-26-11 E.V. Detroit
    10-11-13 Pittsburgh
    10-12-13 Buffalo
    10-29-13 Charlottesville
    4-18-16 Hampton
    8-22-16 Chicago

  • Options
    HobbesHobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,383
    rbrum7 said:
    Yup, I replied today to spark up the conversation. 

    No, it is not the one pictured above on the right that is red with the yellow Cro-Magnon man. That I believe is from the Yield 98 tour. 

    The one I'm trying to find has the same logo, but it is multiple cro-magnon men in a row, each holding a gun. It's almost like the Beatles Abbey Road cover with the same gorilla looking dude, if that makes any sense, ha. 
    Your description reminds of this:



    More recycled art from Ames.
  • Options
    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    Hobbes said:
    rbrum7 said:
    Yup, I replied today to spark up the conversation. 

    No, it is not the one pictured above on the right that is red with the yellow Cro-Magnon man. That I believe is from the Yield 98 tour. 

    The one I'm trying to find has the same logo, but it is multiple cro-magnon men in a row, each holding a gun. It's almost like the Beatles Abbey Road cover with the same gorilla looking dude, if that makes any sense, ha. 
    Your description reminds of this:



    More recycled art from Ames.
    Ha, absolutely! I own that print and I got it just because it reminded me of the shirt. 
    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
  • Options
    rbrum7rbrum7 Posts: 974
    ryph raph said:
    This is not the shirt you are searching for.
    [as I wave my hand in front of you]
    Dude, I've seen that shirt before and thought it was the one I'm looking for because the stuff on the back is like what was on the front of the shirt from what I can remember. But then I found out (like you also mentioned) that shirt is from the 98 Yield tour and I'm positive the shirt I'm referring to was during the Riot Act tour and was blue. I know it was the Riot Act tour because my buddy bought the Riot Act album art shirt and is what he lost when we left the bag under our seats. 

    So maybe it was an Ames Bros. created PJ shirt then. Unfortunately it's looking like I'll never know. 

    Also, I was actually at the 98 show at Blossom. Was my first show. Got the red with yellow birds shirt at that show. One of my favorites and I own like 60.


    Cleveland, OH - 8/26/98
    Cleveland, OH - 4/25/03
    Cleveland, OH - 5/20/06
    Cleveland, OH - 5/9/10
    (EV Solo) Detroit, MI - 6/26/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/3/11
    East Troy, WI - 9/4/11
    Chicago, IL - 7/19/13
    Shitsburgh, PA - 10/11/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Los Angeles, CA - 11/23/13
    Detroit, MI - 10/16/14
    Lexington, KY - 4/26/16
    Manchester, TN - 6/11/16
    Chicago, IL - 8/18/18
    Chicago, IL - 8/20/18
    (EV Solo) Tempe, AZ - 3/2/19
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/15/20
    Los Angeles, CA - 4/16/20
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