Is the USA a nation of bigots and/or racists and/or idiots and hypocrites?

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  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 6,554
    pjhawks said:
    pjhawks said:
    mace1229 said:
    I gave the abbreviated version. They actually questioned me at my house. I went to the store or something and on the way home stopped at the park to walk around/go pokemon hunting. After 15-20 minutes I got back in my car and drove the 100 yards to my house.  I drive a bright yellow jeep (not the best choice if you want to kidnap kids with it), I was told at least one of the calls provided my car information and that is how they found me at my house. Knocked on my door and questioned me there. Clearly I was at my house, parked in my driveway, lived in the neighborhood and abandoned my attempt to kidnap children for the day, but they still came and questioned me.
    My wife was home and asked who was at the door. I was embarrassed to tell her I was playing Pokemon, so I just told her it was solicitors and that's why I went outside to talk to them. When she asked what was funny I came forward with the truth. You've never seen such a big eye-roll in your life. . 
    But you know, honestly I didn't mind. If 500 people get inconvenienced and questioned when they look out of place in order to prevent 1 kidnapping its worth it to me. 
    inconvenient for you yes, but i'd rather live in a neighborhood where caution like that is taken.  There was recently a murder-suicide in a town a few miles from me. wife killed woman who was sleeping with her husband then herself. she stalked out the neighborhood for a few days prior. one neighbor said she saw this woman looking at the house with binoculars a few days prior to the murder and even though thought it was strange never called the police. police came out after murder-suicide and requested people call the cops when they see things that might be strange like that. they could have prevented a murder-suicide by calling. police were adamant afterwards to call when you see strange things like this.  i have zero problems with people calling in these types of cases.  2 minutes of inconvenience is better than what could happen.  
    looking at someone's house with binocs is a bit different than simply walking down the street looking at your phone, though, don't you think?
    Yes but the point of my story was more if you think something/someone is acting peculiar nothing wrong with calling the police. it's why they are there.   Besides walking near a school, during the day and/or drop off/pick up-time i don't have a problem with being cautious in that situation if they see someone they deem might be acting strange or out of the ordinay.  
    And the prejudice that people have is that black people are thought of to be more suspicious and up to no good. This leads to a greater chance to be treated as suspect. Saying that it happens to white people to is looking at it from the wrong angle of end result. Look at it from a wide perpective of when the cops are called and when they aren’t. 
  • pjhawkspjhawks Posts: 8,452
    pjhawks said:
    pjhawks said:
    mace1229 said:
    I gave the abbreviated version. They actually questioned me at my house. I went to the store or something and on the way home stopped at the park to walk around/go pokemon hunting. After 15-20 minutes I got back in my car and drove the 100 yards to my house.  I drive a bright yellow jeep (not the best choice if you want to kidnap kids with it), I was told at least one of the calls provided my car information and that is how they found me at my house. Knocked on my door and questioned me there. Clearly I was at my house, parked in my driveway, lived in the neighborhood and abandoned my attempt to kidnap children for the day, but they still came and questioned me.
    My wife was home and asked who was at the door. I was embarrassed to tell her I was playing Pokemon, so I just told her it was solicitors and that's why I went outside to talk to them. When she asked what was funny I came forward with the truth. You've never seen such a big eye-roll in your life. . 
    But you know, honestly I didn't mind. If 500 people get inconvenienced and questioned when they look out of place in order to prevent 1 kidnapping its worth it to me. 
    inconvenient for you yes, but i'd rather live in a neighborhood where caution like that is taken.  There was recently a murder-suicide in a town a few miles from me. wife killed woman who was sleeping with her husband then herself. she stalked out the neighborhood for a few days prior. one neighbor said she saw this woman looking at the house with binoculars a few days prior to the murder and even though thought it was strange never called the police. police came out after murder-suicide and requested people call the cops when they see things that might be strange like that. they could have prevented a murder-suicide by calling. police were adamant afterwards to call when you see strange things like this.  i have zero problems with people calling in these types of cases.  2 minutes of inconvenience is better than what could happen.  
    looking at someone's house with binocs is a bit different than simply walking down the street looking at your phone, though, don't you think?
    Yes but the point of my story was more if you think something/someone is acting peculiar nothing wrong with calling the police. it's why they are there.   Besides walking near a school, during the day and/or drop off/pick up-time i don't have a problem with being cautious in that situation if they see someone they deem might be acting strange or out of the ordinay.  
    And the prejudice that people have is that black people are thought of to be more suspicious and up to no good. This leads to a greater chance to be treated as suspect. Saying that it happens to white people to is looking at it from the wrong angle of end result. Look at it from a wide perpective of when the cops are called and when they aren’t. 
    i never mentioned race when i said if you see something strange nothing wrong with reporting it. i have no problem reporting suspicious activity from anyone.  now the question that no one wants to answer is why do people often feel black people are suspicious?   in some cases yes it's blatant racism but i think it goes much deeper than simply using that as a reason. that is one question that is never asked or answered.  possibly because the answer would lead to charges of racism.
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 13,902
    pjhawks said:
    pjhawks said:
    pjhawks said:
    mace1229 said:
    I gave the abbreviated version. They actually questioned me at my house. I went to the store or something and on the way home stopped at the park to walk around/go pokemon hunting. After 15-20 minutes I got back in my car and drove the 100 yards to my house.  I drive a bright yellow jeep (not the best choice if you want to kidnap kids with it), I was told at least one of the calls provided my car information and that is how they found me at my house. Knocked on my door and questioned me there. Clearly I was at my house, parked in my driveway, lived in the neighborhood and abandoned my attempt to kidnap children for the day, but they still came and questioned me.
    My wife was home and asked who was at the door. I was embarrassed to tell her I was playing Pokemon, so I just told her it was solicitors and that's why I went outside to talk to them. When she asked what was funny I came forward with the truth. You've never seen such a big eye-roll in your life. . 
    But you know, honestly I didn't mind. If 500 people get inconvenienced and questioned when they look out of place in order to prevent 1 kidnapping its worth it to me. 
    inconvenient for you yes, but i'd rather live in a neighborhood where caution like that is taken.  There was recently a murder-suicide in a town a few miles from me. wife killed woman who was sleeping with her husband then herself. she stalked out the neighborhood for a few days prior. one neighbor said she saw this woman looking at the house with binoculars a few days prior to the murder and even though thought it was strange never called the police. police came out after murder-suicide and requested people call the cops when they see things that might be strange like that. they could have prevented a murder-suicide by calling. police were adamant afterwards to call when you see strange things like this.  i have zero problems with people calling in these types of cases.  2 minutes of inconvenience is better than what could happen.  
    looking at someone's house with binocs is a bit different than simply walking down the street looking at your phone, though, don't you think?
    Yes but the point of my story was more if you think something/someone is acting peculiar nothing wrong with calling the police. it's why they are there.   Besides walking near a school, during the day and/or drop off/pick up-time i don't have a problem with being cautious in that situation if they see someone they deem might be acting strange or out of the ordinay.  
    And the prejudice that people have is that black people are thought of to be more suspicious and up to no good. This leads to a greater chance to be treated as suspect. Saying that it happens to white people to is looking at it from the wrong angle of end result. Look at it from a wide perpective of when the cops are called and when they aren’t. 
    i never mentioned race when i said if you see something strange nothing wrong with reporting it. i have no problem reporting suspicious activity from anyone.  now the question that no one wants to answer is why do people often feel black people are suspicious?   in some cases yes it's blatant racism but i think it goes much deeper than simply using that as a reason. that is one question that is never asked or answered.  possibly because the answer would lead to charges of racism.
    there's nothing wrong with stating statistics for a factual discussion. the problem starts when people start generalizing based on those statistics. 
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 6,554
    pjhawks said:
    pjhawks said:
    pjhawks said:
    mace1229 said:
    I gave the abbreviated version. They actually questioned me at my house. I went to the store or something and on the way home stopped at the park to walk around/go pokemon hunting. After 15-20 minutes I got back in my car and drove the 100 yards to my house.  I drive a bright yellow jeep (not the best choice if you want to kidnap kids with it), I was told at least one of the calls provided my car information and that is how they found me at my house. Knocked on my door and questioned me there. Clearly I was at my house, parked in my driveway, lived in the neighborhood and abandoned my attempt to kidnap children for the day, but they still came and questioned me.
    My wife was home and asked who was at the door. I was embarrassed to tell her I was playing Pokemon, so I just told her it was solicitors and that's why I went outside to talk to them. When she asked what was funny I came forward with the truth. You've never seen such a big eye-roll in your life. . 
    But you know, honestly I didn't mind. If 500 people get inconvenienced and questioned when they look out of place in order to prevent 1 kidnapping its worth it to me. 
    inconvenient for you yes, but i'd rather live in a neighborhood where caution like that is taken.  There was recently a murder-suicide in a town a few miles from me. wife killed woman who was sleeping with her husband then herself. she stalked out the neighborhood for a few days prior. one neighbor said she saw this woman looking at the house with binoculars a few days prior to the murder and even though thought it was strange never called the police. police came out after murder-suicide and requested people call the cops when they see things that might be strange like that. they could have prevented a murder-suicide by calling. police were adamant afterwards to call when you see strange things like this.  i have zero problems with people calling in these types of cases.  2 minutes of inconvenience is better than what could happen.  
    looking at someone's house with binocs is a bit different than simply walking down the street looking at your phone, though, don't you think?
    Yes but the point of my story was more if you think something/someone is acting peculiar nothing wrong with calling the police. it's why they are there.   Besides walking near a school, during the day and/or drop off/pick up-time i don't have a problem with being cautious in that situation if they see someone they deem might be acting strange or out of the ordinay.  
    And the prejudice that people have is that black people are thought of to be more suspicious and up to no good. This leads to a greater chance to be treated as suspect. Saying that it happens to white people to is looking at it from the wrong angle of end result. Look at it from a wide perpective of when the cops are called and when they aren’t. 
    i never mentioned race when i said if you see something strange nothing wrong with reporting it. i have no problem reporting suspicious activity from anyone.  now the question that no one wants to answer is why do people often feel black people are suspicious?   in some cases yes it's blatant racism but i think it goes much deeper than simply using that as a reason. that is one question that is never asked or answered.  possibly because the answer would lead to charges of racism.
    Never asked or answered? My experience is opposite of that. There’s entire fields of study that research this. There’s also a ton published on it, both scientific and personal based. Maybe part of it depends on education and work history. It’s a subject that often comes up in my work and always has. 

    The short answer is that our brains hold everything, both the good stuff and the garbage. Our brains also will put information is groups so we don’t experience things like it’s the first time everyday. Combine the incoming garbage feom media, personal experience, community, social interaction and family upbringing with our brain putting things into groups and you get prejudice. The meassage that blacks are more prone to violence is often sent out. The other message that whites being violent is somehow a result of that individuals choice is also out there. A voilent white person is often seen as acting
    outside of the group. They are something else or something else is driving that behavior. The prejudice against blacks is that violent behavior is a function of the group they belong in. E.g. “when will blacks start protesting black on black violence?”  When will Muslims speak out and condemn terrorists?”  You don’t hear the white version or the Christian version of this because it’s assumed their violence stems from something wrong with the individual, not the system they’re a part of. 
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 7,268
    pjhawks said:
    pjhawks said:
    pjhawks said:
    mace1229 said:
    I gave the abbreviated version. They actually questioned me at my house. I went to the store or something and on the way home stopped at the park to walk around/go pokemon hunting. After 15-20 minutes I got back in my car and drove the 100 yards to my house.  I drive a bright yellow jeep (not the best choice if you want to kidnap kids with it), I was told at least one of the calls provided my car information and that is how they found me at my house. Knocked on my door and questioned me there. Clearly I was at my house, parked in my driveway, lived in the neighborhood and abandoned my attempt to kidnap children for the day, but they still came and questioned me.
    My wife was home and asked who was at the door. I was embarrassed to tell her I was playing Pokemon, so I just told her it was solicitors and that's why I went outside to talk to them. When she asked what was funny I came forward with the truth. You've never seen such a big eye-roll in your life. . 
    But you know, honestly I didn't mind. If 500 people get inconvenienced and questioned when they look out of place in order to prevent 1 kidnapping its worth it to me. 
    inconvenient for you yes, but i'd rather live in a neighborhood where caution like that is taken.  There was recently a murder-suicide in a town a few miles from me. wife killed woman who was sleeping with her husband then herself. she stalked out the neighborhood for a few days prior. one neighbor said she saw this woman looking at the house with binoculars a few days prior to the murder and even though thought it was strange never called the police. police came out after murder-suicide and requested people call the cops when they see things that might be strange like that. they could have prevented a murder-suicide by calling. police were adamant afterwards to call when you see strange things like this.  i have zero problems with people calling in these types of cases.  2 minutes of inconvenience is better than what could happen.  
    looking at someone's house with binocs is a bit different than simply walking down the street looking at your phone, though, don't you think?
    Yes but the point of my story was more if you think something/someone is acting peculiar nothing wrong with calling the police. it's why they are there.   Besides walking near a school, during the day and/or drop off/pick up-time i don't have a problem with being cautious in that situation if they see someone they deem might be acting strange or out of the ordinay.  
    And the prejudice that people have is that black people are thought of to be more suspicious and up to no good. This leads to a greater chance to be treated as suspect. Saying that it happens to white people to is looking at it from the wrong angle of end result. Look at it from a wide perpective of when the cops are called and when they aren’t. 
    i never mentioned race when i said if you see something strange nothing wrong with reporting it. i have no problem reporting suspicious activity from anyone.  now the question that no one wants to answer is why do people often feel black people are suspicious?   in some cases yes it's blatant racism but i think it goes much deeper than simply using that as a reason. that is one question that is never asked or answered.  possibly because the answer would lead to charges of racism.
    Never asked or answered? My experience is opposite of that. There’s entire fields of study that research this. There’s also a ton published on it, both scientific and personal based. Maybe part of it depends on education and work history. It’s a subject that often comes up in my work and always has. 

    The short answer is that our brains hold everything, both the good stuff and the garbage. Our brains also will put information is groups so we don’t experience things like it’s the first time everyday. Combine the incoming garbage feom media, personal experience, community, social interaction and family upbringing with our brain putting things into groups and you get prejudice. The meassage that blacks are more prone to violence is often sent out. The other message that whites being violent is somehow a result of that individuals choice is also out there. A voilent white person is often seen as acting
    outside of the group. They are something else or something else is driving that behavior. The prejudice against blacks is that violent behavior is a function of the group they belong in. E.g. “when will blacks start protesting black on black violence?”  When will Muslims speak out and condemn terrorists?”  You don’t hear the white version or the Christian version of this because it’s assumed their violence stems from something wrong with the individual, not the system they’re a part of. 
    Exactly, thank you. 

    The whole notion of “black on black violence” is a ridiculous one that falls apart the moment anyone puts serious thought into it. Most violence is relational; that is, people tend to be violent with individuals that they commonly associate with, whether friends or family or workmates or even people in the community in which you live. Black individuals typically have friends and family and communities involving other black people, so it’s no surprise that violence, when it occurs, generally involves another person or colour. But guess what? It’s exactly the same pattern with white people - virtually the same percentage, in fact. But how often do we hear the phrase “white on white violence”? 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 2,310
    edited May 12
    It is a completely valid question to ask.
    First, the white on white and black on black violence is not the same. There is about a 10% gap, it is close, but not close enough to be considered statistically the same.
    That is only of minor concern. The biggest factor is the overall crime. I knew blacks were reported to have a much higher crime rate than whites. I didn't remember the exact figure so I looked it up. It was much higher than I thought. Every single source I read reported it at backs committing 51-52% of murders, while whites are about 34%. When you consider the population of white and blacks in the country, blacks are close to 10 times as likely to be murdered by another black than a white person would be murdered by another white. That is a staggering difference. Not even close. That is why so many people ask the question why is there little to no outrage or protests over this black on black violence. 
    Think of it this way, nearly half of the homicides are black on black, who make up only 13% the population. Less than 1/3 of homicides are white on white, who make up 65% of the population. Those don;t compare.

    Not only do I think it is a valid question, I don't know why anyone would brush that off as an insignificant piece of data. It is a great opportunity to bring up the gap in education, social-economic status and every other factor that contributes to this. Pretending the black and white crime is virtually the same won't bring any significant change. More money does need to be put into black neighborhoods to improve schools, after-school functions that include educational and anti-gang programs and many other factors that I would be for.

    Wikipedia was just one of about 4 sources that all said the same thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 13,541
    mace1229 said:
    It is a completely valid question to ask.
    First, the white on white and black on black violence is not the same. There is about a 10% gap, it is close, but not close enough to be considered statistically the same.
    That is only of minor concern. The biggest factor is the overall crime. I knew blacks were reported to have a much higher crime rate than whites. I didn't remember the exact figure so I looked it up. It was much higher than I thought. Every single source I read reported it at backs committing 51-52% of murders, while whites are about 34%. When you consider the population of white and blacks in the country, blacks are close to 10 times as likely to be murdered by another black than a white person would be murdered by another white. That is a staggering difference. Not even close. That is why so many people ask the question why is there little to no outrage or protests over this black on black violence. 
    Think of it this way, nearly half of the homicides are black on black, who make up only 13% the population. Less than 1/3 of homicides are white on white, who make up 65% of the population. Those don;t compare.

    Not only do I think it is a valid question, I don't know why anyone would brush that off as an insignificant piece of data. It is a great opportunity to bring up the gap in education, social-economic status and every other factor that contributes to this. Pretending the black and white crime is virtually the same won't bring any significant change. More money does need to be put into black neighborhoods to improve schools, after-school functions that include educational and anti-gang programs and many other factors that I would be for.

    Wikipedia was just one of about 4 sources that all said the same thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

    I was wondering where you were going with your first passage.

    I'm glad you added your second paragraph because it was needed in the context of what you were writing.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 7,268
    mace1229 said:
    It is a completely valid question to ask.
    First, the white on white and black on black violence is not the same. There is about a 10% gap, it is close, but not close enough to be considered statistically the same.
    That is only of minor concern. The biggest factor is the overall crime. I knew blacks were reported to have a much higher crime rate than whites. I didn't remember the exact figure so I looked it up. It was much higher than I thought. Every single source I read reported it at backs committing 51-52% of murders, while whites are about 34%. When you consider the population of white and blacks in the country, blacks are close to 10 times as likely to be murdered by another black than a white person would be murdered by another white. That is a staggering difference. Not even close. That is why so many people ask the question why is there little to no outrage or protests over this black on black violence. 
    Think of it this way, nearly half of the homicides are black on black, who make up only 13% the population. Less than 1/3 of homicides are white on white, who make up 65% of the population. Those don;t compare.

    Not only do I think it is a valid question, I don't know why anyone would brush that off as an insignificant piece of data. It is a great opportunity to bring up the gap in education, social-economic status and every other factor that contributes to this. Pretending the black and white crime is virtually the same won't bring any significant change. More money does need to be put into black neighborhoods to improve schools, after-school functions that include educational and anti-gang programs and many other factors that I would be for.

    Wikipedia was just one of about 4 sources that all said the same thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_and_crime_in_the_United_States

    I question your sources for the data in your first two sentences. The data I've seen put the gap at between 2-6%, essentially insignificant.

    And for the larger question of increased crime rates, those are almost completely accounted for by poverty and all that entails in living circumstances.  Better to put time, energy and attention into the reasons for that poverty. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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