Animals in Captivity

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  • DegeneratefkDegeneratefk Posts: 3,123
    callen said:

    polaris_x said:

    I get what is being said, though, polaris. it's an interesting thought, though. how can anything we do NOT be considered natural? just because we consume more than we need, doesn't mean it's not natural. it's part of our UNFORTUNATE evolution into who we are.

    there are many species of animal that doesn't use up every part of their kill. is that not considered selfish or wasteful if it was to be anthropomorphised? if that's even a word. but I think you get what I mean.

    I don't think they are making excuses, I think they are just stating things are they currently are. they aren't saying "let's cut down more forests! it's in our nature to do so!". it's just stating a fact of what is currently going on.

    i would hope we are not debating whether the tern natural is proper or not ... it's semantics that really has no bearing on the issue whatsoever ... i could care less if they want to call global warming part of evolution ...

    the crux of the discussion for me has always been, for the most part, whether or not the survival of a species is more important than the life of a child ... what i'm getting from them is that species come and go and that losing gorillas is no big deal ...

    as for your example of animals not using every part of the kill ... remember there are scavengers in the ecosystem too ... so, often a lion may leave a portion of a kill when it is full in order for scavengers to finish the rest ...

    life on this planet is predicated on a balance of sorts ... the more we throw things out of whack - the more likely we are to cause major catastrophes (see global warming) ...
    And my answer is still the life of my species is more important than any other species.
    Your species sucks. Virus. Greedy. Wasteful. Evil. and not special.

    Thought of starting poll on this.

    Choices:

    Shoot gorilla

    Tranquilize gorilla.

    Shoot kid.

    Tranquilize kid.

    Shoot mother.
    I'm fairly certain that MY species is the same as YOUR species. But either way, no matter how much OUR species sucks, most of us are choosing us over theirs.
    will myself to find a home, a home within myself
    we will find a way, we will find our place
  • Callen gets a little melodramatic sometimes.

    Here he speaks of how shitty the human race is- a scourge to the planet that should be cleansed from the face of it, but in other threads... he'll speak to the value that exists in a serial murderer.

    I think it depends on what music he has been listening to prior to posting.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    Male and two females condemned to life in captivity for killings in India — and they’re human-eating lions

    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/human-eating-lions-condemned-to-life-in-captivity-in-india

    Seems like a reasonable solution ...
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,473
    lukin2006 said:

    Male and two females condemned to life in captivity for killings in India — and they’re human-eating lions

    http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/human-eating-lions-condemned-to-life-in-captivity-in-india

    Seems like a reasonable solution ...

    I think that's sick. Better to kill them than cage them, frankly.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    ^^^maybe ... I guess it depends how big the enclosure is, relocating in India is likely not an option. Hey maybe with some good behaviour they will be offered supervised parole, then maybe day parole and then just maybe full parole.

    Correct me if I'm wrong ... Your against the death penalty? If you are, then why is it ok to lock up humans for life. I don't know the answers, but for now these lions have life, maybe at some point someone will come up with a better solution, maybe, not likely though ... But for now at least that's hopeful.
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,473
    edited June 2016
    lukin2006 said:

    ^^^maybe ... I guess it depends how big the enclosure is, relocating in India is likely not an option. Hey maybe with some good behaviour they will be offered supervised parole, then maybe day parole and then just maybe full parole.

    Correct me if I'm wrong ... Your against the death penalty? If you are, then why is it ok to lock up humans for life. I don't know the answers, but for now these lions have life, maybe at some point someone will come up with a better solution, maybe, not likely though ... But for now at least that's hopeful.

    Because innocent people get convicted. Also because a government should never have the right to murder its own citizens. As far as wild animals go... I do NOT support killing them. I just also don't support torturing them by locking them up (sorry, I don't compare human beings and animals in this context really, because humans can make decisions and killing other people is WRONG for them. Human murderers are morally corrupt. Hunting other animals, including humans, is not wrong or morally corrupt for lions. Punishment is a moot point when it comes to animals. It's not for people. You also can't relocate human beings into the middle of nowhere, away from all people. That's not realistic). So anyway, if I have to choose between torturing a wild animal for years and years by caging them, or killing a wild animal to avoid that torture, I'm going to have to choose killing them. Not because I'm okay with it. On the other hand, I'm not a fucking PETA member, lol. I'm not going to flip out if an animal that has been stalking and killing a bunch of people is shot in order to protect the human population. It makes me sad, and I wish they would relocate them for sure, but I'm still a logical, reasonable person who understands the facts of life.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • lukin2006lukin2006 Posts: 9,087
    ^^^understood,
    I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin

    "Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
  • Elephant hurls a stone at people and kills a seven year old girl:

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/28/middleeast/elephant-kills-child-morocco/
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Lion mauls a zookeeper to death in Mexico.

    The lion was 22 years old. After the zookeeper failed to properly secure a gate, the lion pried it open and attacked the guy.

    Curious behaviour in a way: I would never underestimate the carnivorous behaviour of such an animal, but after spending so long in the enclosure and being cared for... one might think the lion wouldn't be super eager to attack and kill it's caregiver.

    I've seen lions be much more loving- even after released into the wild and reunited with their caregivers. Something inside me thinks the animal isn't digging his existence.

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/lion-mauls-zookeeper-to-death-after-cage-was-left-unlocked/ar-BBKryWE?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,593
    Lion mauls a zookeeper to death in Mexico.

    The lion was 22 years old. After the zookeeper failed to properly secure a gate, the lion pried it open and attacked the guy.

    Curious behaviour in a way: I would never underestimate the carnivorous behaviour of such an animal, but after spending so long in the enclosure and being cared for... one might think the lion wouldn't be super eager to attack and kill it's caregiver.

    I've seen lions be much more loving- even after released into the wild and reunited with their caregivers. Something inside me thinks the animal isn't digging his existence.

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/lion-mauls-zookeeper-to-death-after-cage-was-left-unlocked/ar-BBKryWE?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp
    Look at it this way, Thirty.  If I locked you in a cage and let hundreds or even thousands of people gawk at you everyday and I forgot to lock the gate one day, what would you do?

    All kidding aside, I'm for closing all zoos except petting zoos for domesticate animals and using all the money that goes to support them to buy up and create habitat for wild life.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianlux said:
    Lion mauls a zookeeper to death in Mexico.

    The lion was 22 years old. After the zookeeper failed to properly secure a gate, the lion pried it open and attacked the guy.

    Curious behaviour in a way: I would never underestimate the carnivorous behaviour of such an animal, but after spending so long in the enclosure and being cared for... one might think the lion wouldn't be super eager to attack and kill it's caregiver.

    I've seen lions be much more loving- even after released into the wild and reunited with their caregivers. Something inside me thinks the animal isn't digging his existence.

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/lion-mauls-zookeeper-to-death-after-cage-was-left-unlocked/ar-BBKryWE?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp
    Look at it this way, Thirty.  If I locked you in a cage and let hundreds or even thousands of people gawk at you everyday and I forgot to lock the gate one day, what would you do?

    All kidding aside, I'm for closing all zoos except petting zoos for domesticate animals and using all the money that goes to support them to buy up and create habitat for wild life.

    I get it for sure.

    I'm thinking aquariums and zoos have got to be reaching their expiration dates.

    You wanna see lions? Get on a safari with your camera and go see them.

    Depressing.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,593
    brianlux said:
    Lion mauls a zookeeper to death in Mexico.

    The lion was 22 years old. After the zookeeper failed to properly secure a gate, the lion pried it open and attacked the guy.

    Curious behaviour in a way: I would never underestimate the carnivorous behaviour of such an animal, but after spending so long in the enclosure and being cared for... one might think the lion wouldn't be super eager to attack and kill it's caregiver.

    I've seen lions be much more loving- even after released into the wild and reunited with their caregivers. Something inside me thinks the animal isn't digging his existence.

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/lion-mauls-zookeeper-to-death-after-cage-was-left-unlocked/ar-BBKryWE?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp
    Look at it this way, Thirty.  If I locked you in a cage and let hundreds or even thousands of people gawk at you everyday and I forgot to lock the gate one day, what would you do?

    All kidding aside, I'm for closing all zoos except petting zoos for domesticate animals and using all the money that goes to support them to buy up and create habitat for wild life.

    I get it for sure.

    I'm thinking aquariums and zoos have got to be reaching their expiration dates.

    You wanna see lions? Get on a safari with your camera and go see them.

    Depressing.
    I hear you.  Thing is, as a kid I loved going to the zoo.  What did I know- I was a kid.  My thinking started to change back in my late 20's when I was visiting the San Fransisco Zoo on Sloat Blvd.   I was checking out one of the ape cages (back when they were smaller enclosures- they are much larger areas now).  One of these primates (ape? chimp? can't remember) went  into their wooden house and start slowing beating on the floor and then beating faster and faster and the thumped, one-two-three beats on the floor, and she ran out, jumping up on the bars and spit right in my face. 

    OK!  I get it! 
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    i fucking hate zoos. i know my wife loves taking the kids, but i am vehemently opposed to it. they are right up there with circuses. 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,593
    i fucking hate zoos. i know my wife loves taking the kids, but i am vehemently opposed to it. they are right up there with circuses. 
    Yes again!  Circuses mistreatment of elephants is what prompted us to do our little bit to support the Elephant  Sanctuary in Tennessee There are others closer to home that I didn't know about until later but we've stayed with the one in TN because we feel like we know some of the elephants there from reading there stories for years.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    Lion mauls a zookeeper to death in Mexico.

    The lion was 22 years old. After the zookeeper failed to properly secure a gate, the lion pried it open and attacked the guy.

    Curious behaviour in a way: I would never underestimate the carnivorous behaviour of such an animal, but after spending so long in the enclosure and being cared for... one might think the lion wouldn't be super eager to attack and kill it's caregiver.

    I've seen lions be much more loving- even after released into the wild and reunited with their caregivers. Something inside me thinks the animal isn't digging his existence.

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/lion-mauls-zookeeper-to-death-after-cage-was-left-unlocked/ar-BBKryWE?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp
    Look at it this way, Thirty.  If I locked you in a cage and let hundreds or even thousands of people gawk at you everyday and I forgot to lock the gate one day, what would you do?

    All kidding aside, I'm for closing all zoos except petting zoos for domesticate animals and using all the money that goes to support them to buy up and create habitat for wild life.

    I get it for sure.

    I'm thinking aquariums and zoos have got to be reaching their expiration dates.

    You wanna see lions? Get on a safari with your camera and go see them.

    Depressing.
    I hear you.  Thing is, as a kid I loved going to the zoo.  What did I know- I was a kid.  My thinking started to change back in my late 20's when I was visiting the San Fransisco Zoo on Sloat Blvd.   I was checking out one of the ape cages (back when they were smaller enclosures- they are much larger areas now).  One of these primates (ape? chimp? can't remember) went  into their wooden house and start slowing beating on the floor and then beating faster and faster and the thumped, one-two-three beats on the floor, and she ran out, jumping up on the bars and spit right in my face. 

    OK!  I get it! 

    I remember going to Sealand in Victoria as a kid. I was pretty fired up.

    The big ticket item- the killer whale- was disappointing. I anticipated a magnificent animal... and saw a beaten down, melancholy one with a bent dorsal fin stuck in a tiny pool of water. I knew, as a young kid, how wrong that situation was.

    I've never taken my kids to a zoo or aquarium and have educated them on the reason why. They fully understand.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    brianlux said:
    i fucking hate zoos. i know my wife loves taking the kids, but i am vehemently opposed to it. they are right up there with circuses. 
    Yes again!  Circuses mistreatment of elephants is what prompted us to do our little bit to support the Elephant  Sanctuary in Tennessee There are others closer to home that I didn't know about until later but we've stayed with the one in TN because we feel like we know some of the elephants there from reading there stories for years.
    I probably mentioned this in this thread a while back, but man, I will always feel guilty about the time I took my daughter to the circus and rode an elephant with her. how humiliating for that poor, beautiful animal. 

    I also try to educate my kids on the horrors of non-conservational captivity, yet the daycare they go to (my wife's) still make zoo trips. so it's confusing for them. and our zoo is getting more and more funding and getting bigger and bigger. the anti-zoo movement isn't gaining traction like I thought it might with the new generation. I guess it's like anything that is introduced in childhood (like religion). 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,593
    brianlux said:
    i fucking hate zoos. i know my wife loves taking the kids, but i am vehemently opposed to it. they are right up there with circuses. 
    Yes again!  Circuses mistreatment of elephants is what prompted us to do our little bit to support the Elephant  Sanctuary in Tennessee There are others closer to home that I didn't know about until later but we've stayed with the one in TN because we feel like we know some of the elephants there from reading there stories for years.
    I probably mentioned this in this thread a while back, but man, I will always feel guilty about the time I took my daughter to the circus and rode an elephant with her. how humiliating for that poor, beautiful animal. 

    I also try to educate my kids on the horrors of non-conservational captivity, yet the daycare they go to (my wife's) still make zoo trips. so it's confusing for them. and our zoo is getting more and more funding and getting bigger and bigger. the anti-zoo movement isn't gaining traction like I thought it might with the new generation. I guess it's like anything that is introduced in childhood (like religion). 
    Zoos, like religion, embedded from childhood in our thinking as normal- never thought of it that way but that's a good analogy.  I'm very sorry to think that zoos are gaining traction rather than being phased out as they very well ought to be.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,473
    edited March 2018
    Lion mauls a zookeeper to death in Mexico.

    The lion was 22 years old. After the zookeeper failed to properly secure a gate, the lion pried it open and attacked the guy.

    Curious behaviour in a way: I would never underestimate the carnivorous behaviour of such an animal, but after spending so long in the enclosure and being cared for... one might think the lion wouldn't be super eager to attack and kill it's caregiver.

    I've seen lions be much more loving- even after released into the wild and reunited with their caregivers. Something inside me thinks the animal isn't digging his existence.

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/lion-mauls-zookeeper-to-death-after-cage-was-left-unlocked/ar-BBKryWE?li=AAadgLE&ocid=spartanntp
    The lion must have just been biding his time.... been waiting for years for that fucker to leave the gate open, and finally his day came for him to finally exact his revenge. I feel kind of glad for the lion.
    I feel bad for the zookeeper I guess too... I mean, as you guys say, many people are brainwashed into thinking zoos are normal and that somehow the animals are in a good position there, or at least that they serve the greater good. All bullshit of course... So I find myself always rooting for the captive animals over the people keeping them captive, whatever the social norms may be.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,593
    I feel badly for the worker and family but why did they shoot the lion?  It's not the lion's fault it was able to get out and it did what came naturally to it.  So, WTF, they go and shoot it.  Bummer.   Now there's double reason this incident is tragic.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,121

  • brianlux said:
    I feel badly for the worker and family but why did they shoot the lion?  It's not the lion's fault it was able to get out and it did what came naturally to it.  So, WTF, they go and shoot it.  Bummer.   Now there's double reason this incident is tragic.

    They're saying attempts to sedate the animal failed and that they killed it to retrieve the body.

    A real drag (for loss of human and animal life).

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/lion-attack-family-of-victim-says-she-loved-animals/ar-BBRDoNX?ocid=spartanntp
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Jason P said:


    These two beasts look like they can get themselves in some serious trouble.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,593
    brianlux said:
    I feel badly for the worker and family but why did they shoot the lion?  It's not the lion's fault it was able to get out and it did what came naturally to it.  So, WTF, they go and shoot it.  Bummer.   Now there's double reason this incident is tragic.

    They're saying attempts to sedate the animal failed and that they killed it to retrieve the body.

    A real drag (for loss of human and animal life).

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/lion-attack-family-of-victim-says-she-loved-animals/ar-BBRDoNX?ocid=spartanntp
    So they were able to hit it with a bullet but could not hit it with a tranquilizer gun?  That's sad.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    I feel badly for the worker and family but why did they shoot the lion?  It's not the lion's fault it was able to get out and it did what came naturally to it.  So, WTF, they go and shoot it.  Bummer.   Now there's double reason this incident is tragic.

    They're saying attempts to sedate the animal failed and that they killed it to retrieve the body.

    A real drag (for loss of human and animal life).

    https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/lion-attack-family-of-victim-says-she-loved-animals/ar-BBRDoNX?ocid=spartanntp
    So they were able to hit it with a bullet but could not hit it with a tranquilizer gun?  That's sad.

    Those were my thoughts.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,473
    edited January 2019
    brianlux said:
    I feel badly for the worker and family but why did they shoot the lion?  It's not the lion's fault it was able to get out and it did what came naturally to it.  So, WTF, they go and shoot it.  Bummer.   Now there's double reason this incident is tragic.
    Yeah really. It makes me really really mad that they killed the lion. Why don't they have tranq darts ready instead? And frankly, I much prefer the dead body to be eaten by the lion than for the lion to be killed, and yes, I'd say that even if it was my loved one's body, and most certainly my own body (I actually like the idea of my body being eaten by lions - sounds way better than being put in a hole in the ground). I can't believe that is the reason they gave for killing the poor thing. And this is yet another reason I am dead set against zoos.

    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,593
    edited January 2019
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    I feel badly for the worker and family but why did they shoot the lion?  It's not the lion's fault it was able to get out and it did what came naturally to it.  So, WTF, they go and shoot it.  Bummer.   Now there's double reason this incident is tragic.
    Yeah really. It makes me really really mad that they killed the lion. Why don't they have tranq darts ready instead? And frankly, I much prefer the dead body to be eaten by the lion than for the lion to be killed, and yes, I'd say that even if it was my loved one's body, and most certainly my own body (I actually like the idea of my body being eaten by lions - sounds way better than being put in a hole in the ground). I can't believe that is the reason they gave for killing the poor thing. And this is yet another reason I am dead set against zoos.

    Yes!  I would feel the same way. 
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    eaten by lions. we need to see that as an option at funeral homes. 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,593
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianlux said:

    That is soooo awesome!

    At first, I went, "Oh no. It's Fat Bastard."

    But then I realized it wasn't the Austin Powers actor- it was just some slob that liked killing lions for fun.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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