America's Gun Violence

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Comments

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,596
    (Sorry if this has been posted already)

    How sick is this?!
    http://www.abc10.com/article/news/nation-world/worshippers-clutching-ar-15-rifles-hold-commitment-ceremony/507-524211955

    Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles hold commitment ceremony

    The controversial Pennsylvania church believes the AR-15 symbolizes the 'rod of iron' in the book of Revelation, and encouraged couples to bring the weapons to Wednesday's ceremony.



    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,482
    brianlux said:
    (Sorry if this has been posted already)

    How sick is this?!
    http://www.abc10.com/article/news/nation-world/worshippers-clutching-ar-15-rifles-hold-commitment-ceremony/507-524211955

    Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles hold commitment ceremony

    The controversial Pennsylvania church believes the AR-15 symbolizes the 'rod of iron' in the book of Revelation, and encouraged couples to bring the weapons to Wednesday's ceremony.



    It’s an off-shoot of the moonies. Still disgusting.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,821
    brianlux said:
    (Sorry if this has been posted already)

    How sick is this?!
    http://www.abc10.com/article/news/nation-world/worshippers-clutching-ar-15-rifles-hold-commitment-ceremony/507-524211955

    Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles hold commitment ceremony

    The controversial Pennsylvania church believes the AR-15 symbolizes the 'rod of iron' in the book of Revelation, and encouraged couples to bring the weapons to Wednesday's ceremony.



    "World Peace and Unification" indeed.  I guess they're Reaganites.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    RYME said:
    my2hands said:
    I would put in an express lane for abortions... AND take away all of your guns

    I'm you're libtard snowflake nightmare 

    60 million babies aborted in the United States since 1973 you're cool with that?
    I'd say the express lane has been open for a long time.  So don't pretend that you care about life, and children and all that jazz.
    No you don't.

    I have zero problem with it. After the 2016 election I can think of 60 million more abortions that should have happened lol

    And I still care about life, children, and all that jazz. Crazy, I know 
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    brianlux said:
    (Sorry if this has been posted already)

    How sick is this?!
    http://www.abc10.com/article/news/nation-world/worshippers-clutching-ar-15-rifles-hold-commitment-ceremony/507-524211955

    Worshippers clutching AR-15 rifles hold commitment ceremony

    The controversial Pennsylvania church believes the AR-15 symbolizes the 'rod of iron' in the book of Revelation, and encouraged couples to bring the weapons to Wednesday's ceremony.



    What a bunch of morons 
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    my2hands said:
    RYME said:
    my2hands said:
    I would put in an express lane for abortions... AND take away all of your guns

    I'm you're libtard snowflake nightmare 

    60 million babies aborted in the United States since 1973 you're cool with that?
    I'd say the express lane has been open for a long time.  So don't pretend that you care about life, and children and all that jazz.
    No you don't.

    I have zero problem with it. After the 2016 election I can think of 60 million more abortions that should have happened lol

    And I still care about life, children, and all that jazz. Crazy, I know 
    :rofl:
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,482
    unsung said:
    Seems illionois’ AG is dropping the ball or Sessions’ ATF is. She should be locked up for 20 years as part of 3 strikes, yes?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,602
    unsung said:
    Anytime law enforcement fails,  the corresponding law should be repealed due to ineffectiveness.  Great talking point. 
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,962
    october22 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Huh.
    I guess I don't expect Americans to give a fuck about what a Canadian company does in response to America's gun problem, but I think it's interesting that Mountain Equipment Coop (which has 5 million members - kind of like a Costco membership), has announced they will no longer buy any products made by Vista Outdoor products because Vista also makes US guns and ammo. MEC doesn't sell firearms, but they are one of those socially involved companies by reputation, and decided they don't want to support a gun manufacturer in any way... This was, though, a direct response to a petition for them to make the move.
    Obviously gun enthusiasts are against this move... but really, how many people give a shit about gun enthusiasts' opinions on these things? Not me. Even if this is just a symbolic move more than anything else, I'm having trouble with any arguments against it.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mec-vista-outdoor-1.4557071




    Because the argument for the 2nd Amendment in the US is not about being "enthusiastic" about guns. I've pasted below what I wrote in the thread about banning "assault weapons". I am against such a ban and was asked to explain why. This is what I wrote. It's pretty damn long and in two parts so no offense taken if you don't have time to read it or don't feel like it. Hope you've been well, by the way! ;)

    (Ok, I went a little nuts with the following, but it's late here and I've had a lot to say on this subject. Please forgive typos and some meandering as I've done no editing. Most of you probably disagree (as does Pearl Jam, apparently), but I respect you guys. Hopefully, you'll see that my opinion is born out of compassion and not some strange affinity for guns or violence.) Here goes...

    I would be happy to explain my position, and I appreciate you not insinuating that I support mass murder or any of the other ridiculous and offensive comments I've seen on here with regard to gun owners and people who agree with my position on the second amendment. Neither side of this argument has a monopoly on compassion.

    To be clear, the second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It's meant for killing people. Specifically, it's meant for killing tyrants and the soldiers of a tyrannical government. There are also very specific cases in which it would be deemed appropriate to use a firearm to protect yourself, family, and fellow citizen from imminent deadly harm.

    With that out of the way, I'll share some of my background with you because it's pertinent to how my opinion on gun rights was formed. I'm not a "hillbilly, hunter clinging to his bible and his guns." I'm an atheist from New Jersey who's never hunted in his life. I've lived in New York City for much of my adult life and graduated from New York University and The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art and Drama Studio in London. Hardly a cowboy. I own no camouflage or american flag clothing, no pick-up truck and no tactical gear. I've had my gun beliefs my entire life and have only recently purchased my first firearm. I don't fit the stereotype people have of gun owners and there are millions of people in America just like me. I'm a patriot, and I know people on the other side are as well. My heart breaks from gun violence the same as yours does. I will get to why I support gun rights, including access to AR-15 style rifles, but I ask you to bear with me. The following will largely discuss democide, defined as "the murder of any person or people by their government, including genocide, politicide and mass murder". Such death by government in just the 20th Century alone is estimated at over 262,000,000 world-wide and the best prevention is the rifle.

    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

    I was lucky to live in Prague as a young man. The principal of my school was the vice president of the newly independent state of Czech Republic. He and my teachers lived through the Velvet Revolution. It was during this time that I began to study democide. I learned about the German occupation of Czechoslovakia and the Czechoslovakian response after the war. The CZ government, with the support of the British and American governments, expelled millions of ethnic Germans from the country. It is estimated that tens to hundreds of thousands of innocent people guilty of simply speaking German, were killed during this process. Many were ripped out of their homes and shot and thousands were lined up in the street and run over with tanks and trucks. Video of this can be found on youtube. I mention this because it is one of the lesser known atrocities and genocides that took place during the 20th Century. Of course, the horrors of Hitler's crimes are almost indescribable, and I'm sure we're all familiar with most of them. I believe that the so-called "subjugated races" under Nazi rule should have had the right to defend themselves with firearms from those monsters, just as I believe every ethnic German man and woman in post-war Czechoslovakia should have had the right to shoot the bastards ripping them and their children from their homes to face certain death. There are many quotes concerning gun-control attributed to twentieth century dictators that may be dubious, but the following is confirmed true in the book, Hitler’s Table Talk, 1941-1944: Secret Conversations:

    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjugated races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjugated races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let’s not have any native militia or native police." - Adolf Hitler, 1942  https://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/disarm.asp  

    Continued.... 
    I read both parts and I agree with everything you said. The typical response around here involves accusations of wearing tin foil hats.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    unsung said:
    Seems illionois’ AG is dropping the ball or Sessions’ ATF is. She should be locked up for 20 years as part of 3 strikes, yes?
    That isn't up to me.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,482
    unsung said:
    unsung said:
    Seems illionois’ AG is dropping the ball or Sessions’ ATF is. She should be locked up for 20 years as part of 3 strikes, yes?
    That isn't up to me.
    Well, since you posted the story it seems you have some issue with it but maybe you don’t? What, in your opinion, would be a suitable or required punishment for being a trice conivictrd felon charged with gun running? Too often, gun crimes of this kind or “responsible” gun owners killing someone because of their stupidity don’t suffer any consequences. Part of the overall problem.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    unsung said:
    'leftists are dumb'. seriously, dude, get some new reading material. 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,482
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,482
    Ahhh, the paranoid tyrannical government argument again. I can see this view is pretty mainstream amongst the pro gun crowd.

    Florida Senate passes, immediately reverses 2-year AR-15 ban - CBS News https://apple.news/AMHfXI__wTFKi9XtOqFc6oQ
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,482
    dudeman said:
    october22 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Huh.
    I guess I don't expect Americans to give a fuck about what a Canadian company does in response to America's gun problem, but I think it's interesting that Mountain Equipment Coop (which has 5 million members - kind of like a Costco membership), has announced they will no longer buy any products made by Vista Outdoor products because Vista also makes US guns and ammo. MEC doesn't sell firearms, but they are one of those socially involved companies by reputation, and decided they don't want to support a gun manufacturer in any way... This was, though, a direct response to a petition for them to make the move.
    Obviously gun enthusiasts are against this move... but really, how many people give a shit about gun enthusiasts' opinions on these things? Not me. Even if this is just a symbolic move more than anything else, I'm having trouble with any arguments against it.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mec-vista-outdoor-1.4557071




    Because the argument for the 2nd Amendment in the US is not about being "enthusiastic" about guns. I've pasted below what I wrote in the thread about banning "assault weapons". I am against such a ban and was asked to explain why. This is what I wrote. It's pretty damn long and in two parts so no offense taken if you don't have time to read it or don't feel like it. Hope you've been well, by the way! ;)

    (Ok, I went a little nuts with the following, but it's late here and I've had a lot to say on this subject. Please forgive typos and some meandering as I've done no editing. Most of you probably disagree (as does Pearl Jam, apparently), but I respect you guys. Hopefully, you'll see that my opinion is born out of compassion and not some strange affinity for guns or violence.) Here goes...

    I would be happy to explain my position, and I appreciate you not insinuating that I support mass murder or any of the other ridiculous and offensive comments I've seen on here with regard to gun owners and people who agree with my position on the second amendment. Neither side of this argument has a monopoly on compassion.

    To be clear, the second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It's meant for killing people. Specifically, it's meant for killing tyrants and the soldiers of a tyrannical government. There are also very specific cases in which it would be deemed appropriate to use a firearm to protect yourself, family, and fellow citizen from imminent deadly harm.

    With that out of the way, I'll share some of my background with you because it's pertinent to how my opinion on gun rights was formed. I'm not a "hillbilly, hunter clinging to his bible and his guns." I'm an atheist from New Jersey who's never hunted in his life. I've lived in New York City for much of my adult life and graduated from New York University and The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art and Drama Studio in London. Hardly a cowboy. I own no camouflage or american flag clothing, no pick-up truck and no tactical gear. I've had my gun beliefs my entire life and have only recently purchased my first firearm. I don't fit the stereotype people have of gun owners and there are millions of people in America just like me. I'm a patriot, and I know people on the other side are as well. My heart breaks from gun violence the same as yours does. I will get to why I support gun rights, including access to AR-15 style rifles, but I ask you to bear with me. The following will largely discuss democide, defined as "the murder of any person or people by their government, including genocide, politicide and mass murder". Such death by government in just the 20th Century alone is estimated at over 262,000,000 world-wide and the best prevention is the rifle.

    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

    I was lucky to live in Prague as a young man. The principal of my school was the vice president of the newly independent state of Czech Republic. He and my teachers lived through the Velvet Revolution. It was during this time that I began to study democide. I learned about the German occupation of Czechoslovakia and the Czechoslovakian response after the war. The CZ government, with the support of the British and American governments, expelled millions of ethnic Germans from the country. It is estimated that tens to hundreds of thousands of innocent people guilty of simply speaking German, were killed during this process. Many were ripped out of their homes and shot and thousands were lined up in the street and run over with tanks and trucks. Video of this can be found on youtube. I mention this because it is one of the lesser known atrocities and genocides that took place during the 20th Century. Of course, the horrors of Hitler's crimes are almost indescribable, and I'm sure we're all familiar with most of them. I believe that the so-called "subjugated races" under Nazi rule should have had the right to defend themselves with firearms from those monsters, just as I believe every ethnic German man and woman in post-war Czechoslovakia should have had the right to shoot the bastards ripping them and their children from their homes to face certain death. There are many quotes concerning gun-control attributed to twentieth century dictators that may be dubious, but the following is confirmed true in the book, Hitler’s Table Talk, 1941-1944: Secret Conversations:

    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjugated races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjugated races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let’s not have any native militia or native police." - Adolf Hitler, 1942  https://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/disarm.asp  

    Continued.... 
    I read both parts and I agree with everything you said. The typical response around here involves accusations of wearing tin foil hats.
    “Democide.” Democrats are coming to kill you because they want to take your guns away and bring tyranny, nazi, cubano, Sandinista, Viet Cong style. Sorry, but the more I read this treatise, the more I doubt the authenticity of the author claiming it as their own, impassioned plea for rifle/AR15 ownership. Sorry but I’m not sold.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • Pretty much sums this situation up lol.

    F**king morons 
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USA Posts: 3,425
    my gut tells me that the NRA is receiving money from Russia. how the else are these losers getting so much power?
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    Follow the Rubles
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,482
    vaggar99 said:
    my gut tells me that the NRA is receiving money from Russia. how the else are these losers getting so much power?
    Why else is Nunes going to the extremes to cover up and derail the House investigation? This is way bigger than watergate and much more far reaching than just Team Trump Treason. Just wait until Team Mueller starts lifting the nesting dolls of the Republican primaries. It’s a sad but beautiful thing to observe.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,482
    Nothing can be done.

    Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See.’ - The New York Times https://apple.news/ATjzHgc_USEGXPADPmUzqIw
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • october22october22 Posts: 2,533
    dudeman said:
    october22 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Huh.
    I guess I don't expect Americans to give a fuck about what a Canadian company does in response to America's gun problem, but I think it's interesting that Mountain Equipment Coop (which has 5 million members - kind of like a Costco membership), has announced they will no longer buy any products made by Vista Outdoor products because Vista also makes US guns and ammo. MEC doesn't sell firearms, but they are one of those socially involved companies by reputation, and decided they don't want to support a gun manufacturer in any way... This was, though, a direct response to a petition for them to make the move.
    Obviously gun enthusiasts are against this move... but really, how many people give a shit about gun enthusiasts' opinions on these things? Not me. Even if this is just a symbolic move more than anything else, I'm having trouble with any arguments against it.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mec-vista-outdoor-1.4557071




    Because the argument for the 2nd Amendment in the US is not about being "enthusiastic" about guns. I've pasted below what I wrote in the thread about banning "assault weapons". I am against such a ban and was asked to explain why. This is what I wrote. It's pretty damn long and in two parts so no offense taken if you don't have time to read it or don't feel like it. Hope you've been well, by the way! ;)

    (Ok, I went a little nuts with the following, but it's late here and I've had a lot to say on this subject. Please forgive typos and some meandering as I've done no editing. Most of you probably disagree (as does Pearl Jam, apparently), but I respect you guys. Hopefully, you'll see that my opinion is born out of compassion and not some strange affinity for guns or violence.) Here goes...

    I would be happy to explain my position, and I appreciate you not insinuating that I support mass murder or any of the other ridiculous and offensive comments I've seen on here with regard to gun owners and people who agree with my position on the second amendment. Neither side of this argument has a monopoly on compassion.

    To be clear, the second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It's meant for killing people. Specifically, it's meant for killing tyrants and the soldiers of a tyrannical government. There are also very specific cases in which it would be deemed appropriate to use a firearm to protect yourself, family, and fellow citizen from imminent deadly harm.

    With that out of the way, I'll share some of my background with you because it's pertinent to how my opinion on gun rights was formed. I'm not a "hillbilly, hunter clinging to his bible and his guns." I'm an atheist from New Jersey who's never hunted in his life. I've lived in New York City for much of my adult life and graduated from New York University and The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art and Drama Studio in London. Hardly a cowboy. I own no camouflage or american flag clothing, no pick-up truck and no tactical gear. I've had my gun beliefs my entire life and have only recently purchased my first firearm. I don't fit the stereotype people have of gun owners and there are millions of people in America just like me. I'm a patriot, and I know people on the other side are as well. My heart breaks from gun violence the same as yours does. I will get to why I support gun rights, including access to AR-15 style rifles, but I ask you to bear with me. The following will largely discuss democide, defined as "the murder of any person or people by their government, including genocide, politicide and mass murder". Such death by government in just the 20th Century alone is estimated at over 262,000,000 world-wide and the best prevention is the rifle.

    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

    I was lucky to live in Prague as a young man. The principal of my school was the vice president of the newly independent state of Czech Republic. He and my teachers lived through the Velvet Revolution. It was during this time that I began to study democide. I learned about the German occupation of Czechoslovakia and the Czechoslovakian response after the war. The CZ government, with the support of the British and American governments, expelled millions of ethnic Germans from the country. It is estimated that tens to hundreds of thousands of innocent people guilty of simply speaking German, were killed during this process. Many were ripped out of their homes and shot and thousands were lined up in the street and run over with tanks and trucks. Video of this can be found on youtube. I mention this because it is one of the lesser known atrocities and genocides that took place during the 20th Century. Of course, the horrors of Hitler's crimes are almost indescribable, and I'm sure we're all familiar with most of them. I believe that the so-called "subjugated races" under Nazi rule should have had the right to defend themselves with firearms from those monsters, just as I believe every ethnic German man and woman in post-war Czechoslovakia should have had the right to shoot the bastards ripping them and their children from their homes to face certain death. There are many quotes concerning gun-control attributed to twentieth century dictators that may be dubious, but the following is confirmed true in the book, Hitler’s Table Talk, 1941-1944: Secret Conversations:

    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjugated races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjugated races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let’s not have any native militia or native police." - Adolf Hitler, 1942  https://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/disarm.asp  

    Continued.... 
    I read both parts and I agree with everything you said. The typical response around here involves accusations of wearing tin foil hats.
    “Democide.” Democrats are coming to kill you because they want to take your guns away and bring tyranny, nazi, cubano, Sandinista, Viet Cong style. Sorry, but the more I read this treatise, the more I doubt the authenticity of the author claiming it as their own, impassioned plea for rifle/AR15 ownership. Sorry but I’m not sold.
    ...Really?
  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,962
    And welcome to the train.
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,482
    october22 said:
    dudeman said:
    october22 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Huh.
    I guess I don't expect Americans to give a fuck about what a Canadian company does in response to America's gun problem, but I think it's interesting that Mountain Equipment Coop (which has 5 million members - kind of like a Costco membership), has announced they will no longer buy any products made by Vista Outdoor products because Vista also makes US guns and ammo. MEC doesn't sell firearms, but they are one of those socially involved companies by reputation, and decided they don't want to support a gun manufacturer in any way... This was, though, a direct response to a petition for them to make the move.
    Obviously gun enthusiasts are against this move... but really, how many people give a shit about gun enthusiasts' opinions on these things? Not me. Even if this is just a symbolic move more than anything else, I'm having trouble with any arguments against it.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mec-vista-outdoor-1.4557071




    Because the argument for the 2nd Amendment in the US is not about being "enthusiastic" about guns. I've pasted below what I wrote in the thread about banning "assault weapons". I am against such a ban and was asked to explain why. This is what I wrote. It's pretty damn long and in two parts so no offense taken if you don't have time to read it or don't feel like it. Hope you've been well, by the way! ;)

    (Ok, I went a little nuts with the following, but it's late here and I've had a lot to say on this subject. Please forgive typos and some meandering as I've done no editing. Most of you probably disagree (as does Pearl Jam, apparently), but I respect you guys. Hopefully, you'll see that my opinion is born out of compassion and not some strange affinity for guns or violence.) Here goes...

    I would be happy to explain my position, and I appreciate you not insinuating that I support mass murder or any of the other ridiculous and offensive comments I've seen on here with regard to gun owners and people who agree with my position on the second amendment. Neither side of this argument has a monopoly on compassion.

    To be clear, the second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It's meant for killing people. Specifically, it's meant for killing tyrants and the soldiers of a tyrannical government. There are also very specific cases in which it would be deemed appropriate to use a firearm to protect yourself, family, and fellow citizen from imminent deadly harm.

    With that out of the way, I'll share some of my background with you because it's pertinent to how my opinion on gun rights was formed. I'm not a "hillbilly, hunter clinging to his bible and his guns." I'm an atheist from New Jersey who's never hunted in his life. I've lived in New York City for much of my adult life and graduated from New York University and The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art and Drama Studio in London. Hardly a cowboy. I own no camouflage or american flag clothing, no pick-up truck and no tactical gear. I've had my gun beliefs my entire life and have only recently purchased my first firearm. I don't fit the stereotype people have of gun owners and there are millions of people in America just like me. I'm a patriot, and I know people on the other side are as well. My heart breaks from gun violence the same as yours does. I will get to why I support gun rights, including access to AR-15 style rifles, but I ask you to bear with me. The following will largely discuss democide, defined as "the murder of any person or people by their government, including genocide, politicide and mass murder". Such death by government in just the 20th Century alone is estimated at over 262,000,000 world-wide and the best prevention is the rifle.

    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

    I was lucky to live in Prague as a young man. The principal of my school was the vice president of the newly independent state of Czech Republic. He and my teachers lived through the Velvet Revolution. It was during this time that I began to study democide. I learned about the German occupation of Czechoslovakia and the Czechoslovakian response after the war. The CZ government, with the support of the British and American governments, expelled millions of ethnic Germans from the country. It is estimated that tens to hundreds of thousands of innocent people guilty of simply speaking German, were killed during this process. Many were ripped out of their homes and shot and thousands were lined up in the street and run over with tanks and trucks. Video of this can be found on youtube. I mention this because it is one of the lesser known atrocities and genocides that took place during the 20th Century. Of course, the horrors of Hitler's crimes are almost indescribable, and I'm sure we're all familiar with most of them. I believe that the so-called "subjugated races" under Nazi rule should have had the right to defend themselves with firearms from those monsters, just as I believe every ethnic German man and woman in post-war Czechoslovakia should have had the right to shoot the bastards ripping them and their children from their homes to face certain death. There are many quotes concerning gun-control attributed to twentieth century dictators that may be dubious, but the following is confirmed true in the book, Hitler’s Table Talk, 1941-1944: Secret Conversations:

    "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjugated races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjugated races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing. Indeed, I would go so far as to say that the supply of arms to the underdogs is a sine qua non for the overthrow of any sovereignty. So let’s not have any native militia or native police." - Adolf Hitler, 1942  https://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/disarm.asp  

    Continued.... 
    I read both parts and I agree with everything you said. The typical response around here involves accusations of wearing tin foil hats.
    “Democide.” Democrats are coming to kill you because they want to take your guns away and bring tyranny, nazi, cubano, Sandinista, Viet Cong style. Sorry, but the more I read this treatise, the more I doubt the authenticity of the author claiming it as their own, impassioned plea for rifle/AR15 ownership. Sorry but I’m not sold.
    ...Really?
    Yup, the more I hear the pro-gun side, the more I hear references to tyranny and the citation of democide. It’s like they’ve latched onto this concept as a rallying cry as to why assault rifles shouldn’t be banned or limited in any capacity (slippery slope). I realize that your treatise is in the should assault weapons be banned thread and I appreciate you making the argument, of which I see flaws. However, I can’t possibly reply from my phone and will have to wait until I can cut and paste after I create a word document. It sucks to lose what you’ve typed and to be stymied by the forums character limits, particularly when you reply to long posts.

    Off the top of my head, the US in 2018 is not 1930s Germany, 1940s Soviet Union, 1950-60s Cuba, 1970s Cambodia or 1980s Latin America. Even the political scientist who created the concept of “democide” (why didn’t he call it republicide?) states that western style democracies with firmly entrenched democratic institutions are not prone to tyrannical behavior resulting in democide. More later and nothing personal, just a staunch opposing view point.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,962
    Nothing can be done. 

    Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See.’ - The New York Times https://apple.news/ATjzHgc_USEGXPADPmUzqIw
    Are you aware of the percentage of people killed with rifles in the US annually? If so, how does that figure compare to the percentage of people killed with handguns?
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,602
    dudeman said:
    Nothing can be done. 

    Wounds From Military-Style Rifles? ‘A Ghastly Thing to See.’ - The New York Times https://apple.news/ATjzHgc_USEGXPADPmUzqIw
    Are you aware of the percentage of people killed with rifles in the US annually? If so, how does that figure compare to the percentage of people killed with handguns?
    Listen,  most of us believe in the 2A, so don't come in here with arguments about why hand guns should be banned too. Lets stick to the AR's.  
  • october22october22 Posts: 2,533
    october22 said:
    dudeman said:
    october22 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Huh.
    I guess I don't expect Americans to give a fuck about what a Canadian company does in response to America's gun problem, but I think it's interesting that Mountain Equipment Coop (which has 5 million members - kind of like a Costco membership), has announced they will no longer buy any products made by Vista Outdoor products because Vista also makes US guns and ammo. MEC doesn't sell firearms, but they are one of those socially involved companies by reputation, and decided they don't want to support a gun manufacturer in any way... This was, though, a direct response to a petition for them to make the move.
    Obviously gun enthusiasts are against this move... but really, how many people give a shit about gun enthusiasts' opinions on these things? Not me. Even if this is just a symbolic move more than anything else, I'm having trouble with any arguments against it.

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/mec-vista-outdoor-1.4557071




    Because the argument for the 2nd Amendment in the US is not about being "enthusiastic" about guns. I've pasted below what I wrote in the thread about banning "assault weapons". I am against such a ban and was asked to explain why. This is what I wrote. It's pretty damn long and in two parts so no offense taken if you don't have time to read it or don't feel like it. Hope you've been well, by the way! ;)

    (Ok, I went a little nuts with the following, but it's late here and I've had a lot to say on this subject. Please forgive typos and some meandering as I've done no editing. Most of you probably disagree (as does Pearl Jam, apparently), but I respect you guys. Hopefully, you'll see that my opinion is born out of compassion and not some strange affinity for guns or violence.) Here goes...

    I would be happy to explain my position, and I appreciate you not insinuating that I support mass murder or any of the other ridiculous and offensive comments I've seen on here with regard to gun owners and people who agree with my position on the second amendment. Neither side of this argument has a monopoly on compassion.

    To be clear, the second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It's meant for killing people. Specifically, it's meant for killing tyrants and the soldiers of a tyrannical government. There are also very specific cases in which it would be deemed appropriate to use a firearm to protect yourself, family, and fellow citizen from imminent deadly harm.

    With that out of the way, I'll share some of my background with you because it's pertinent to how my opinion on gun rights was formed. I'm not a "hillbilly, hunter clinging to his bible and his guns." I'm an atheist from New Jersey who's never hunted in his life. I've lived in New York City for much of my adult life and graduated from New York University and The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art and Drama Studio in London. Hardly a cowboy. I own no camouflage or american flag clothing, no pick-up truck and no tactical gear. I've had my gun beliefs my entire life and have only recently purchased my first firearm. I don't fit the stereotype people have of gun owners and there are millions of people in America just like me. I'm a patriot, and I know people on the other side are as well. My heart breaks from gun violence the same as yours does. I will get to why I support gun rights, including access to AR-15 style rifles, but I ask you to bear with me. The following will largely discuss democide, defined as "the murder of any person or people by their government, including genocide, politicide and mass murder". Such death by government in just the 20th Century alone is estimated at over 262,000,000 world-wide and the best prevention is the rifle.

    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

    I was lucky to live in Prague as a young man. The principal of my school was the vice president of the newly independent state of Czech Republic. He and my teachers lived through the Velvet Revolution. It was during this time that I began to study democide. I learned about the German occupation of Czechoslovakia and the Czechoslovakian response after the war. The CZ government, with the support of the British and American governments, expelled millions of ethnic Germans from the country. It is estimated that tens to hundreds of thousands of innocent people guilty of simply speaking German, were killed during this process. Many were ripped out of their homes and shot and thousands were lined up in the street and run over with tanks and trucks. Video of this can be found on youtube. I mention this because it is one of the lesser known atrocities and genocides that took place during the 20th Century. Of course, the horrors of Hitler's crimes are almost indescribable, and I'm sure we're all familiar with most of them. I believe that the so-called "subjugated races" under Nazi rule should have had the right to defend themselves with firearms from those monsters, just as I believe every ethnic German man and woman in post-war Czechoslovakia should have had the right to shoot the bastards ripping them and their children from their homes to face certain death. There are many quotes concerning gun-control attributed to twentieth century dictators that may be dubious, but the following is confirmed true in the book, Hitler’s Table Talk, 1941-1944: Secret Conversations:
    1942  https://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/disarm.asp  

    Continued.... 
    I read both parts and I agree with everything you said. The typical response around here involves accusations of wearing tin foil hats.
    “Democide.” Democrats are coming to kill you because they want to take your guns away and bring tyranny, nazi, cubano, Sandinista, Viet Cong style. Sorry, but the more I read this treatise, the more I doubt the authenticity of the author claiming it as their own, impassioned plea for rifle/AR15 ownership. Sorry but I’m not sold.
    ...Really?
    Yup, the more I hear the pro-gun side, the more I hear references to tyranny and the citation of democide. It’s like they’ve latched onto this concept as a rallying cry as to why assault rifles shouldn’t be banned or limited in any capacity (slippery slope). I realize that your treatise is in the should assault weapons be banned thread and I appreciate you making the argument, of which I see flaws. However, I can’t possibly reply from my phone and will have to wait until I can cut and paste after I create a word document. It sucks to lose what you’ve typed and to be stymied by the forums character limits, particularly when you reply to long posts.

    Off the top of my head, the US in 2018 is not 1930s Germany, 1940s Soviet Union, 1950-60s Cuba, 1970s Cambodia or 1980s Latin America. Even the political scientist who created the concept of “democide” (why didn’t he call it republicide?) states that western style democracies with firmly entrenched democratic institutions are not prone to tyrannical behavior resulting in democide. More later and nothing personal, just a staunch opposing view point.
    Well, you've accused me of plagiarism which is somewhat annoying, but I'll take it as a compliment. In your defense, I admit I didn't write anything particularly original considering the spirit of it goes back to at least ancient Greece. That may be why it reads so familiar to you.

    So far, you haven't impressed me with your cheap shots and juvenile quips like "republicide", but I am genuinely curious to see if you can bring something of worth to this conversation when you have time to gather your thoughts. Who knows, maybe you'll convince me I'm wrong. I'm open to it.
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    october22 said:
    october22 said:
    dudeman said:
    october22 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Huh.
    I guess I don't expect Americans to give a fuck about what a Canadian company does in response to America's gun problem, but I think it's interesting that Mountain Equipment Coop (which has 5 million members - kind of like a Costco membership), has announced they will no longer buy any products made by Vista Outdoor products because Vista also makes US guns and ammo. MEC doesn't sell firearms, but they are one of those socially involved companies by reputation, and decided they don't want to support a gun manufacturer in any way... This was, though, a direct response




    Because the argument for the 2nd Amendment in the US is not about being "enthusiastic" about guns. I've pasted below what I wrote in the thread about banning "assault weapons". I am against such a ban and was asked to explain why. This is what I wrote. It's pretty damn long and in two parts so no offense taken if you don't have time to read it or don't feel like it. Hope you've been well, by the way! ;)

    (Ok, I went a little nuts with the following, but it's late here and I've had a lot to say on this subject. Please forgive typos and some meandering as I've done no editing. Most of you probably disagree (as does Pearl Jam, apparently), but I respect you guys. Hopefully, you'll see that my opinion is born out of compassion and not some strange affinity for guns or violence.) Here goes...

    I would be happy to explain my position, and I appreciate you not insinuating that I support mass murder or any of the other ridiculous and offensive comments I've seen on here with regard to gun owners and people who agree with my position on the second amendment. Neither side of this argument has a monopoly on compassion.

    To be clear, the second amendment has absolutely nothing to do with hunting. It's meant for killing people. Specifically, it's meant for killing tyrants and the soldiers of a tyrannical government. There are also very specific cases in which it would be deemed appropriate to use a firearm to protect yourself, family, and fellow citizen from imminent deadly harm.

    With that out of the way, I'll share some of my background with you because it's pertinent to how my opinion on gun rights was formed. I'm not a "hillbilly, hunter clinging to his bible and his guns." I'm an atheist from New Jersey who's never hunted in his life. I've lived in New York City for much of my adult life and graduated from New York University and The Royal Academy of Dramatic Art and Drama Studio in London. Hardly a cowboy. I own no camouflage or american flag clothing, no pick-up truck and no tactical gear. I've had my gun beliefs my entire life and have only recently purchased my first firearm. I don't fit the stereotype people have of gun owners and there are millions of people in America just like me. I'm a patriot, and I know people on the other side are as well. My heart breaks from gun violence the same as yours does. I will get to why I support gun rights, including access to AR-15 style rifles, but I ask you to bear with me. The following will largely discuss democide, defined as "the murder of any person or people by their government, including genocide, politicide and mass murder". Such death by government in just the 20th Century alone is estimated at over 262,000,000 world-wide and the best prevention is the rifle.

    https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

    I was lucky to live in Prague as a young man. The principal of my school was the vice president of the newly independent state of Czech Republic. He and my teachers lived through the Velvet Revolution. It was during this time that I began to study democide. I learned about the German occupation of Czechoslovakia and the Czechoslovakian response after the war. The CZ government, with the support of the British and American governments, expelled millions of ethnic Germans from the country. It is estimated that tens to hundreds of thousands of innocent people guilty of simply speaking German, were killed during this process. Many were ripped out of their homes and shot and thousands were lined up in the street and run over with tanks and trucks. Video of this can be found on youtube. I mention this because it is one of the lesser known atrocities and genocides that took place during the 20th Century. Of course, the horrors of Hitler's crimes are almost indescribable, and I'm sure we're all familiar with most of them. I believe that the so-called "subjugated races" under Nazi rule should have had the right to defend themselves with firearms from those monsters, just as I believe every ethnic German man and woman in post-war Czechoslovakia should have had the right to shoot the bastards ripping them and their children from their homes to face certain death. There are many quotes concerning gun-control attributed to twentieth century dictators that may be dubious, but the following is confirmed true in the book, Hitler’s Table Talk, 1941-1944: Secret Conversations:
    1942  https://www.snopes.com/politics/quotes/disarm.asp  

    Continued.... 
    I read both parts and I agree with everything you said. The typical response around here involves accusations of wearing tin foil hats.
    “Democide.” Democrats are coming to kill you because they want to take your guns away and bring tyranny, nazi, cubano, Sandinista, Viet Cong style. Sorry, but the more I read this treatise, the more I doubt the authenticity of the author claiming it as their own, impassioned plea for rifle/AR15 ownership. Sorry but I’m not sold.
    ...Really?
    Yup, the more I hear the pro-gun side, the more I hear references to tyranny and the citation of democide. It’s like they’ve latched onto this concept as a rallying cry as to why assault rifles shouldn’t be banned or limited in any capacity (slippery slope). I realize that your treatise is in the should assault weapons be banned thread and I appreciate you making the argument, of which I see flaws. However, I can’t possibly reply from my phone and will have to wait until I can cut and paste after I create a word document. It sucks to lose what you’ve typed and to be stymied by the forums character limits, particularly when you reply to long posts.

    Off the top of my head, the US in 2018 is not 1930s Germany, 1940s Soviet Union, 1950-60s Cuba, 1970s Cambodia or 1980s Latin America. Even the political scientist who created the concept of “democide” (why didn’t he call it republicide?) states that western style democracies with firmly entrenched democratic institutions are not prone to tyrannical behavior resulting in democide. More later and nothing personal, just a staunch opposing view point.
    Well, you've accused me of plagiarism which is somewhat annoying, but I'll take it as a compliment. In your defense, I admit I didn't write anything particularly original considering the spirit of it goes back to at least ancient Greece. That may be why it reads so familiar to you.

    So far, you haven't impressed me with your cheap shots and juvenile quips like "republicide", but I am genuinely curious to see if you can bring something of worth to this conversation when you have time to gather your thoughts. Who knows, maybe you'll convince me I'm wrong. I'm open to it.
    Don’t hold your breath...

  • dudemandudeman Posts: 2,962
    edited March 2018
    Hmmmm.
    Post edited by dudeman on
    If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
This discussion has been closed.