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America's Gun Violence

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    oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,822
    Some thoughts on internet conspiracy theorists pushing the "crisis actor" garbage, from those who have lived it - the parents of a child murdered at Sandy Hook

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/opinions/conspiracy-hoaxers-parkland-sandy-hook-social-media-pozner-opinion/index.html

    For those affected by gun violence, managing the pain in the aftermath becomes a full-time job. To then be forced to endure conspiracy theorists who are branding your tragedy an elaborately crafted hoax is a form of deliberate revictimization.

    To be told that you are a hired actor in a performance designed to bring down the National Rifle Association and set fire to the Second Amendment, while you are in the process of making funeral arrangements for your murdered child, is a warped form of mental and emotional torture at the hands of an army of abusers.
    This is the grim reality faced by many families whose loved ones became the victims of high-profile mass shootings.
    The truth is that social media has normalized conspiracy theorists. As the parents of a Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting victim, 6-year-old Noah Pozner, we have battled with online platforms hosting hoaxer content for over five years. We know that disinformation is not declining, and certainly isn't going away. Unfortunately, our experience has shown that this problem isn't fading with time or through the conscious and deliberate dismissal by mainstream society of the despicable conspiracy content proliferating all over the internet.

      Instead, the problem is steadily growing, as evidenced by the deluge of Parkland, Florida, shooting "hoax" content that showed up on social media platforms within mere hours after the tragic shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

      Children who endured the horror of a school shooter, and left grieving the deaths of 17 people who were their classmates and teachers and were brave enough to speak to the media, now face the consequences of scores of conspiracy theorists knowing their names and faces. Witnesses and family members of the deceased are being accused of being paid so-called crisis actors and instruments of supposed government agendas.

      Today, these accusations fade into the background for the subjects of the charges. Their wounds are fresh and their activism takes up most of their attention, but eventually, life will settle down again, except for the relentless hostile intrusions of hoaxers.
      Popular social media platforms and other online venues are blatantly culpable for enabling the actions of the abusers. They have opened the floodgates to an invasion of false narratives and the defamation of victims, which invariably leads to the escalation of abuse and harassment as a consequence of the hate the content they host incites.

      Mass dissemination of these false narratives culminates in the wholesale theft of the victims' peaceful existence and isolates them in their grief at a time when they are at the peak of vulnerability.

      The "hoax" narrative reached a fever pitch after Sandy Hook in 2012. As despicable as it was, nobody stopped them, and consequently, it spread like aggressive cancer. In 2012, the hoaxers were limited to the fringe, but today they are practically commonplace.
      This is disturbing when you consider that inflammatory personalities like Alex Jones of Infowars, who make a tidy living peddling conspiracy nonsense and anti-government propaganda, have the ear of President Trump and those around him. This week, Donald Trump Jr. "liked" two tweets pushing conspiracy theories about a Parkland high school shooting survivor and his former FBI agent father.
      The "hoaxer" ideology must be challenged, discredited and denounced. Often, deniers of mass shootings are also deniers of all violent mass casualty events, such as terrorist attacks like the Boston Marathon bombing. Many are also Holocaust deniers, flat Earth proponents, and moon landing deniers. Levels of psychological instability vary from individual to individual, from the harmless, deluded recluse to the dangerous psychopath with aspirations toward domestic terrorism.

      We as a nation are at the hands of powerful forces that serve to widen the divide in this country, yet we are doing next to nothing about it. We are letting it happen, at our society's peril. Our national consciousness is being sold on the open market while graves are being filled at a dizzying pace.
      Our politicians are beholden to special interests and big business who buy their loyalty with large campaign donations, at the expense of the interests of the people who elected them.
      Social media and internet hosting companies are driven to preserve content that attracts viewers, and therefore drives advertising dollars, at the expense of truth and civility.
      The question we must ask ourselves is, at what point will the societal environment be deemed so inhospitable, toxic and vile that we once again insist on dignity, honor and most of all, truth?
      Entities like Facebook and Twitter need to be held accountable for the à la carte "alternative facts" they propagate. They are particularly resistant to removing offending content, even after repeated reporting. Wordpress/Automattic have also earned this unflattering distinction, in that they tend to ignore copyright claims and requests to remove images of minor children.
      When called out for spreading a recent conspiracy theory, a Facebook spokesperson said it was "working to fix the product." Twitter has said it's working to stop users from harassing Parkland students with anti-spam and anti-abuse tools and verifying survivors' accounts. Automattic's general counsel has said in a blog post that "it's very difficult if not impossible for us, as a neutral, passive host, to determine the truth or falsity of a piece of content hosted on our service," which is why the company requires a court order in many situations.
      Follow CNN Opinion

      These companies are publishers -- no less, no more -- and must be held to the same standards as traditional media. It can be argued that they reach far more people than traditional media, and therefore have a responsibility to be good stewards of such enormous power.

      We are in a crisis of truth, and crises can be precursors to change, provided we seize the opportunity.
      Irish statesman, author, orator, political theorist and philosopher Edmund Burke famously said, "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
      These words have held true throughout history, as they do today.
      my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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      unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
      mrussel1 said:
      mcgruff10 said:
      What firearm sales don’t require a background check? And has any of these shooters acquired a firearm by bypassing a background check?
      Gun show..
      Not true.

      Some States don't require documentation of private sales.  If the seller at a gun show has an FFL the sale goes through a background check.  Private sales are hard to find at gun shows, this isn't the 80's.

      The gun show "loophole" is so overblown.  There are private websites that have higher amounts of sales.  Truthfully the last few gunshows I have gone to have totally sucked, many table don't even have firearms.  They are becoming flea markets with sellers just pawning off tables full of garbage made in China knives.
    • Options
      mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,621
      unsung said:
      mrussel1 said:
      mcgruff10 said:
      What firearm sales don’t require a background check? And has any of these shooters acquired a firearm by bypassing a background check?
      Gun show..
      Not true.

      Some States don't require documentation of private sales.  If the seller at a gun show has an FFL the sale goes through a background check.  Private sales are hard to find at gun shows, this isn't the 80's.

      The gun show "loophole" is so overblown.  There are private websites that have higher amounts of sales.  Truthfully the last few gunshows I have gone to have totally sucked, many table don't even have firearms.  They are becoming flea markets with sellers just pawning off tables full of garbage made in China knives.
      Gun show loophole = private sales in many cases.  And you're right, some states require the check, other don't.  Any sale should accompany a background check whether it's private, gun show private, or gun show from a dealer.  
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      mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,832
      mrussel1 said:
      unsung said:
      mrussel1 said:
      mcgruff10 said:
      What firearm sales don’t require a background check? And has any of these shooters acquired a firearm by bypassing a background check?
      Gun show..
      Not true.

      Some States don't require documentation of private sales.  If the seller at a gun show has an FFL the sale goes through a background check.  Private sales are hard to find at gun shows, this isn't the 80's.

      The gun show "loophole" is so overblown.  There are private websites that have higher amounts of sales.  Truthfully the last few gunshows I have gone to have totally sucked, many table don't even have firearms.  They are becoming flea markets with sellers just pawning off tables full of garbage made in China knives.
      Gun show loophole = private sales in many cases.  And you're right, some states require the check, other don't.  Any sale should accompany a background check whether it's private, gun show private, or gun show from a dealer.  
      Totally agree.  I wonder how many criminals use this loophole to acquire firearms.  (my guess is not many)
      I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
    • Options
      mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,621
      mcgruff10 said:
      mrussel1 said:
      unsung said:
      mrussel1 said:
      mcgruff10 said:
      What firearm sales don’t require a background check? And has any of these shooters acquired a firearm by bypassing a background check?
      Gun show..
      Not true.

      Some States don't require documentation of private sales.  If the seller at a gun show has an FFL the sale goes through a background check.  Private sales are hard to find at gun shows, this isn't the 80's.

      The gun show "loophole" is so overblown.  There are private websites that have higher amounts of sales.  Truthfully the last few gunshows I have gone to have totally sucked, many table don't even have firearms.  They are becoming flea markets with sellers just pawning off tables full of garbage made in China knives.
      Gun show loophole = private sales in many cases.  And you're right, some states require the check, other don't.  Any sale should accompany a background check whether it's private, gun show private, or gun show from a dealer.  
      Totally agree.  I wonder how many criminals use this loophole to acquire firearms.  (my guess is not many)
      You have no way of knowing, and neither do I.  However, if we institute universal background checks (which we should), but leave that part open, then you can be certain that anyone with a felony will use that process instead.  Only stands to reason.  
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      Something that hasn't been stated is the fact that background checks do nothing for the latent murderer.

      While I agree that more stringency is still necessary... leaving AR15s available to the 'murderer to be' is simply put... not wise.
      "My brain's a good brain!"
    • Options
      rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
      mcgruff10 said:
      mrussel1 said:
      unsung said:
      mrussel1 said:
      mcgruff10 said:
      What firearm sales don’t require a background check? And has any of these shooters acquired a firearm by bypassing a background check?
      Gun show..
      Not true.

      Some States don't require documentation of private sales.  If the seller at a gun show has an FFL the sale goes through a background check.  Private sales are hard to find at gun shows, this isn't the 80's.

      The gun show "loophole" is so overblown.  There are private websites that have higher amounts of sales.  Truthfully the last few gunshows I have gone to have totally sucked, many table don't even have firearms.  They are becoming flea markets with sellers just pawning off tables full of garbage made in China knives.
      Gun show loophole = private sales in many cases.  And you're right, some states require the check, other don't.  Any sale should accompany a background check whether it's private, gun show private, or gun show from a dealer.  
      Totally agree.  I wonder how many criminals use this loophole to acquire firearms.  (my guess is not many)
      That's how gangs get their guns.  It's called the Iron Pipeline and it runs up the East coast and into the Midwest from the southern and midsouthern states.
      Basically, a honcho has a bunch of lemmings buying guns over the counter or privately and selling to him for a profit.  He then transfers them to gang areas where purchases are much more restricted, at a higher price again.  
      Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
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      rgambs said:
      mcgruff10 said:
      mrussel1 said:
      unsung said:
      mrussel1 said:
      mcgruff10 said:
      What firearm sales don’t require a background check? And has any of these shooters acquired a firearm by bypassing a background check?
      Gun show..
      Not true.

      Some States don't require documentation of private sales.  If the seller at a gun show has an FFL the sale goes through a background check.  Private sales are hard to find at gun shows, this isn't the 80's.

      The gun show "loophole" is so overblown.  There are private websites that have higher amounts of sales.  Truthfully the last few gunshows I have gone to have totally sucked, many table don't even have firearms.  They are becoming flea markets with sellers just pawning off tables full of garbage made in China knives.
      Gun show loophole = private sales in many cases.  And you're right, some states require the check, other don't.  Any sale should accompany a background check whether it's private, gun show private, or gun show from a dealer.  
      Totally agree.  I wonder how many criminals use this loophole to acquire firearms.  (my guess is not many)
      That's how gangs get their guns.  It's called the Iron Pipeline and it runs up the East coast and into the Midwest from the southern and midsouthern states.
      Basically, a honcho has a bunch of lemmings buying guns over the counter or privately and selling to him for a profit.  He then transfers them to gang areas where purchases are much more restricted, at a higher price again.  

      See... to me... meaningful gun reform would also include heavy heavy penalties for these people: the honcho and the lemmings (with the honcho facing the stiffest of these penalties- a very undesirable prison term among other things).
      "My brain's a good brain!"
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      dudemandudeman Posts: 2,970
      Those stiff penalties already exist. Interstate gun trafficking is a federal crime.

      You know how the right is always calling for enforcement of the laws we already have? This is a big one.
      If hope can grow from dirt like me, it can be done. - EV
    • Options
      mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,832
      rgambs said:
      mcgruff10 said:
      mrussel1 said:
      unsung said:
      mrussel1 said:
      mcgruff10 said:
      What firearm sales don’t require a background check? And has any of these shooters acquired a firearm by bypassing a background check?
      Gun show..
      Not true.

      Some States don't require documentation of private sales.  If the seller at a gun show has an FFL the sale goes through a background check.  Private sales are hard to find at gun shows, this isn't the 80's.

      The gun show "loophole" is so overblown.  There are private websites that have higher amounts of sales.  Truthfully the last few gunshows I have gone to have totally sucked, many table don't even have firearms.  They are becoming flea markets with sellers just pawning off tables full of garbage made in China knives.
      Gun show loophole = private sales in many cases.  And you're right, some states require the check, other don't.  Any sale should accompany a background check whether it's private, gun show private, or gun show from a dealer.  
      Totally agree.  I wonder how many criminals use this loophole to acquire firearms.  (my guess is not many)
      That's how gangs get their guns.  It's called the Iron Pipeline and it runs up the East coast and into the Midwest from the southern and midsouthern states.
      Basically, a honcho has a bunch of lemmings buying guns over the counter or privately and selling to him for a profit.  He then transfers them to gang areas where purchases are much more restricted, at a higher price again.  
      Gambs I know you now this being from Ohio but it is absolutely insane to me that some states do not register their firearms upon point of purchase.  I really think that would help curb a lot of problems. 
      I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
    • Options
      dudeman said:
      Those stiff penalties already exist. Interstate gun trafficking is a federal crime.

      You know how the right is always calling for enforcement of the laws we already have? This is a big one.
      I guess I was asking for active enforcement. I honestly have no clue as to the conviction rates, but I can almost assure they aren't high enough,
      "My brain's a good brain!"
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      brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,674
      Lets just say teachers did start to carry..How long til an offhand " Ill shoot you " comment is made? Yeah, I know a good teacher would never say that but not all teachers are good and even the great ones have bad days...A student could just make the accusation and it becomes a mess..This is insanity...
       We need solid parenting. Don't let kids grow up on social media.Raise the age limit and ban assault weapons.That doesn't eliminate the problem of the guns that are already out there.Maybe a Gov't buy back.Quit selling the ammo for these things.I'm sure some will make their own but at least its a step.
      Some sound ideas here.
      “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
      Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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      BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,538
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      mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,832
      https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/hundreds-of-teachers-sign-up-for-free-gun-training-in-ohio

      Hundreds of teachers sign up for free gun training in Ohio

      An Ohio Sheriff is offering free gun training to teachers in response to the school shooting in Parkland, Florida, that left 17 dead.

      Butler County Sheriff Richard Jones told FOX Business’ Liz MacDonald that the response from teachers and school administrators has been overwhelming.

      “We thought we’d get 20, 25 signed up. We had 50 within the first hour. We had 100 within two hours, we had three hundred within like five hours. We offered to teachers first, then we start getting calls from a secretary that works in the school, janitors that work in the school,” Jones said.

      More schools are beginning to train their educators to access or carry concealed weapons with reports suggesting there are now more than 1,000 school staffers in a dozen states with access to guns in schools spanning 225 districts.


      I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
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      mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,621
      He hates America and the 2nd Amendment, obviously.
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      mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,621
      mcgruff10 said:
      https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/hundreds-of-teachers-sign-up-for-free-gun-training-in-ohio

      Hundreds of teachers sign up for free gun training in Ohio

      An Ohio Sheriff is offering free gun training to teachers in response to the school shooting in Parkland, Florida, that left 17 dead.

      Butler County Sheriff Richard Jones told FOX Business’ Liz MacDonald that the response from teachers and school administrators has been overwhelming.

      “We thought we’d get 20, 25 signed up. We had 50 within the first hour. We had 100 within two hours, we had three hundred within like five hours. We offered to teachers first, then we start getting calls from a secretary that works in the school, janitors that work in the school,” Jones said.

      More schools are beginning to train their educators to access or carry concealed weapons with reports suggesting there are now more than 1,000 school staffers in a dozen states with access to guns in schools spanning 225 districts.


      I wouldn't let my child in the classroom with a one of them.  Lest we forget the parents have to be okay with it today, regardless of whether a teacher think he/she is capable. 

      I mentioned earlier that my wife and I agreed that she would leave her career if they put armed teachers in the elementary.  We would home school.  
    • Options
      gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,152
      they want to arm teachers. 

      the same teachers that have to pay out of their own pockets to purchase items needed to do their primary job, which is to teach children.

      arming teachers is a dumb idea. it is just intellectually lazy to assume a teacher would be brave enough to stare down a person with an AR-15 and try to shoot them. the cop that was on site at parkland would not even do that. you really think a teacher is going to be mentally prepared to go all Rambo on a school shooter?
      There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

      "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
    • Options
      mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,621
      they want to arm teachers. 

      the same teachers that have to pay out of their own pockets to purchase items needed to do their primary job, which is to teach children.

      arming teachers is a dumb idea. it is just intellectually lazy to assume a teacher would be brave enough to stare down a person with an AR-15 and try to shoot them. the cop that was on site at parkland would not even do that. you really think a teacher is going to be mentally prepared to go all Rambo on a school shooter?
      This will be fun.. at the beginning of the school year, each parent will have to contribute:

      10 pencils
      4 sticks of glue
      4 notebooks
      4 sets of Crayola Crayons
      1 full clip of Glock 9 MM ammo

      It would be rude to expect the teachers to pay for their own ammo. 
    • Options
      gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,152
      mrussel1 said:
      they want to arm teachers. 

      the same teachers that have to pay out of their own pockets to purchase items needed to do their primary job, which is to teach children.

      arming teachers is a dumb idea. it is just intellectually lazy to assume a teacher would be brave enough to stare down a person with an AR-15 and try to shoot them. the cop that was on site at parkland would not even do that. you really think a teacher is going to be mentally prepared to go all Rambo on a school shooter?
      This will be fun.. at the beginning of the school year, each parent will have to contribute:

      10 pencils
      4 sticks of glue
      4 notebooks
      4 sets of Crayola Crayons
      1 full clip of Glock 9 MM ammo

      It would be rude to expect the teachers to pay for their own ammo. 
      they can pay for their ammo with the "small bonus" trump wants to give them.
      There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

      "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
    • Options
      mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 28,621
      mrussel1 said:
      they want to arm teachers. 

      the same teachers that have to pay out of their own pockets to purchase items needed to do their primary job, which is to teach children.

      arming teachers is a dumb idea. it is just intellectually lazy to assume a teacher would be brave enough to stare down a person with an AR-15 and try to shoot them. the cop that was on site at parkland would not even do that. you really think a teacher is going to be mentally prepared to go all Rambo on a school shooter?
      This will be fun.. at the beginning of the school year, each parent will have to contribute:

      10 pencils
      4 sticks of glue
      4 notebooks
      4 sets of Crayola Crayons
      1 full clip of Glock 9 MM ammo

      It would be rude to expect the teachers to pay for their own ammo. 
      they can pay for their ammo with the "small bonus" trump wants to give them.
      Good point.. spoiled fucks.  
    • Options
      CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,793
      Teachers don't want guns, they want sensible gun laws.

      Like the majority of the nation does.

      Get out of the way conservatives, progressives have to clean up the mess you made. Again. 
      WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
    • Options
      brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,674
      “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
      Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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      tbergstbergs Posts: 9,213
      edited February 2018
      mcgruff10 said:
      https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/hundreds-of-teachers-sign-up-for-free-gun-training-in-ohio

      Hundreds of teachers sign up for free gun training in Ohio

      An Ohio Sheriff is offering free gun training to teachers in response to the school shooting in Parkland, Florida, that left 17 dead.

      Butler County Sheriff Richard Jones told FOX Business’ Liz MacDonald that the response from teachers and school administrators has been overwhelming.

      “We thought we’d get 20, 25 signed up. We had 50 within the first hour. We had 100 within two hours, we had three hundred within like five hours. We offered to teachers first, then we start getting calls from a secretary that works in the school, janitors that work in the school,” Jones said.

      More schools are beginning to train their educators to access or carry concealed weapons with reports suggesting there are now more than 1,000 school staffers in a dozen states with access to guns in schools spanning 225 districts.


      A win for the NRA.

      It also reminds me of when they offer those citizen academy classes for police. The first and most eager to sign up usually comprise a lot of wannabes who should never be in the profession so this is as close as it gets.

      We are our own worst enemy. 
      Post edited by tbergs on
      It's a hopeless situation...
    • Options
      CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,793
      mcgruff10 said:
      https://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/hundreds-of-teachers-sign-up-for-free-gun-training-in-ohio

      Hundreds of teachers sign up for free gun training in Ohio

      An Ohio Sheriff is offering free gun training to teachers in response to the school shooting in Parkland, Florida, that left 17 dead.

      Butler County Sheriff Richard Jones told FOX Business’ Liz MacDonald that the response from teachers and school administrators has been overwhelming.

      “We thought we’d get 20, 25 signed up. We had 50 within the first hour. We had 100 within two hours, we had three hundred within like five hours. We offered to teachers first, then we start getting calls from a secretary that works in the school, janitors that work in the school,” Jones said.

      More schools are beginning to train their educators to access or carry concealed weapons with reports suggesting there are now more than 1,000 school staffers in a dozen states with access to guns in schools spanning 225 districts.


      Will this be the same training Nicholas Cruz got from his NRA sponsored rifle team?  
      WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
    • Options
      CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,793
      'White Male Privilege' and Other Themes of Gun Culture
      https://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2018/02/white-male-privilege-and-other-underlying-themes-in-gun-culture/554030/


      The reason guns cannot be regulated in the USA is because of the violence, not in spite of it. The violence is necessary to maintain the fear, and the fear is necessary to maintain white male privilege. The idea that white men can and do shoot people causes every interaction with a white man to carry a tinge of threat: If you disrespect him, or merely fail to please him enough, he just might explode. When they say that two dozen dead children are the price we pay for freedom, what they mean is that they are willing to pay that price to preserve white male privilege. As recent events demonstrate, white male privilege is the preeminent policy goal for them, outweighing even honor, truth, and democracy. That they pursue it through terrorism should not be surprising; it was ever thus. That they cannot admit their true goal, even to themselves, is a side-effect of the defeat of the Confederacy. They cannot bear to be called a "racist" because to them, that term evokes "loser." When the South lost, we tied the shame of defeat to the cause of racism, hoping to kill it. Instead, it appears we have killed shame.


      WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
    • Options
      unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
      they want to arm teachers. 

      the same teachers that have to pay out of their own pockets to purchase items needed to do their primary job, which is to teach children.

      arming teachers is a dumb idea. it is just intellectually lazy to assume a teacher would be brave enough to stare down a person with an AR-15 and try to shoot them. the cop that was on site at parkland would not even do that. you really think a teacher is going to be mentally prepared to go all Rambo on a school shooter?
      Cool story, your car mechanic knows the feeling.
    • Options
      ConorKavanaghConorKavanagh Ireland Posts: 1,148
      CM189191 said:
      Also, it's one aspect of Rubio's job he's been ducking recently.

      Rubio on skipping town halls: Activists will 'heckle and scream at me'
      https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2017/02/marco-rubio-town-halls-109889

      pro-tip: when your constituents show up in person to yell and scream at you for change, it's not because they want to embarrass you on the evening news you coward. 
      That's what I feel like saying to all of these politicians. If you don't want to do the job, then why did you apply for it? Part of the deal is facing your constituents, and that primarily consists of meeting them in the bad times. It's not all cutting ribbons and kissing babies. But this is the way society is. Managers in the workplace are often the very same way, ducking responsibilities and aspects of the job that will lead to tension.
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      unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
      If teachers didn't want the job, then why did they apply for it?

      No government employee should get rich off of the taxpayers.  Oh no, they have to pay for PENCILS.  Damn near every single person in the country has to pay something to do their job, cry me a river.
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      BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 10,538
      mrussel1 said:
      they want to arm teachers. 

      the same teachers that have to pay out of their own pockets to purchase items needed to do their primary job, which is to teach children.

      arming teachers is a dumb idea. it is just intellectually lazy to assume a teacher would be brave enough to stare down a person with an AR-15 and try to shoot them. the cop that was on site at parkland would not even do that. you really think a teacher is going to be mentally prepared to go all Rambo on a school shooter?
      This will be fun.. at the beginning of the school year, each parent will have to contribute:

      10 pencils
      4 sticks of glue
      4 notebooks
      4 sets of Crayola Crayons
      1 full clip of Glock 9 MM ammo

      It would be rude to expect the teachers to pay for their own ammo. 
      they can pay for their ammo with the "small bonus" trump wants to give them.
      Since all school teachers are underworked and overpaid because of their unions. And since most if not all school teachers are in unions maybe they can get their unions to get them the guns and ammo as part of their union contracts.
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