Ok, a teacher sacrifices his life to save students and a security cop cowered outside and the conclusion you draw is ass-backwards. The lesson I'm hearing is that if the security cop didn't save the day a teacher never could...uh. DUH! A teacher did!!! How can you ignore such a doublethink??
Is this in response to me? I'm not sure I follow
No, a general response to mruss and my2hands and a few others who are using the cops cowardice to justify their feelings that teachers shouldn't be armed, even though a teacher laid his life on the line, unarmed.
Are you for arming teachers then?
I am for allowing physically fit and emotionally stable teachers to arm themselves voluntarily under strict guidelines and supervision if they have passed a thorough vetting, testing, and training program which would be an abbreviated version of police academy standards.
My point was, how can we expect a teacher to hunt down the shooter when a trained cop was unwilling to do it. There's a difference between protecting the children (which too many teachers have done) and acting as a tactical response unit. I'm very supportive of having armed police in the school. My children's district already has cops in schools. But they train full time for these situations. Teachers do not. My wife and I agree that if teachers are armed in our school, they will be home schooled.
There are a lot of cops that aren't well trained.
I know a bunch of cops that don't practice shooting.
I know a bunch of cops that retired NEVER un-holstering their weapon.
The cop that was there at the Florida school resigned for a reason, he should have never been there in the first place.
Right, lots of cops shouldn't be cops and lots of teachers shouldn't be teachers yet now if they want to be armed at their profession as well they can. Both professions go through background checks, but the intensity of training requirements and type of background vary by state. So the same place that hires shitty cops is going to hire shitty teachers, right? Either way, how many wannabe cops are out there compared to wannabe teachers? Can we at least admit that there are plenty of teachers who shouldn't be allowed to have a gun either, but now we're saying let them bring it to school so they can engage the threat if they want? What a nightmare for school districts to sort that out from an admin perspective.
So what if your teacher who wants to carry a gun fails his mental health/psych check or training? What impact will that have on their teaching and their job security? This isn't a straw man theory, it's a strong possibility to consider. Any teachers on here that had to pass a pysch/mental health background to become a teacher? Serious question. All cops in MN have to pass a psych to get hired. You take an MMPI and meet with a pyschologist. Sometimes you even need to take the California Psych. Inventory. Are we going to ensure the same standard for our armed teachers.
It's fucking dumb that not all gun owners at least need to pass an initial pysch/mental health screening. It would decrease gun violence and suicide by so much.
There is a flaw to this thinking. Shooters on trial don't ever get to plea insanity because they aren't. So the screening wouldn't do much in stopping the shootings.
I do agree that teachers should not carry though.
Just because you fail a pysch exam doesn't mean you're insane or crazy. That is the flaw of the common populations thinking or how we typically see it get labelled on TV. Being required to submit to a background and a pysch exam and periodic re-evaluations would stop a lot of shootings; suicide and murders. A lot goes in to those exams and if you're elevated in any one area then you can't own a gun, but you're not crazy.
I think the Second Amendment should be followed exactly as the Founding Fathers intended. Everyone with a modern gun should turn it in and get a musket exactly like the ones the FF were talking about when that amendment was written. That will take care of assault rifles.
Leaving it up to someone with a gun to stop a shooter, or shooters, is a crapshoot. You can get a hero type who would lay down their life when unarmed, a loose cannon type like a George Zimmerman that may shoot someone they perceived as a threat or a licensed cop milking his/her retirement who isn't in the least bit interested in taking on someone with an assault rifle. None of them are a solution to making schools safer. They're feel good responses from people who have seen too many movies where the good guy always wins under pressure. Focusing on the idea of arming more people allows for nothing to change while people get a false sense of security.
If all airports did after 9/11 was allow more "good guys" to carry guns on planes would that have been an acceptable solution to anyone here?
If I remember correctly, most airlines started putting armed air marshals on planes after 911...now why do you think they would do that?
They didn't arm the flight attendants and pilots, they used people whose only job is security/law enforcement...
Your support for arming teachers, is the same as arming the flight attendants, not using air Marshalls
Do people realize most public schools in america have an armed presence already? Every public school in my state has an armed police officer present
PJPOWER... do you have any ideas you support besides guns in America's classrooms?
Just remember folks... decades of millions and millions and millions of dollars worth of propaganda campaigns and politcal contributionstom the gun lobby have NOTHUNG to do with your safety or your right to BEAR arms...
It's all about the right to SELL arms... LOTS of them
The sooner you figure out you're nothing but a customer, and this has squat to do with your safety or rights, the better off this shithole will be. It gives me hope seeing these kids understand that
Leaving it up to someone with a gun to stop a shooter, or shooters, is a crapshoot. You can get a hero type who would lay down their life when unarmed, a loose cannon type like a George Zimmerman that may shoot someone they perceived as a threat or a licensed cop milking his/her retirement who isn't in the least bit interested in taking on someone with an assault rifle. None of them are a solution to making schools safer. They're feel good responses from people who have seen too many movies where the good guy always wins under pressure. Focusing on the idea of arming more people allows for nothing to change while people get a false sense of security.
If all airports did after 9/11 was allow more "good guys" to carry guns on planes would that have been an acceptable solution to anyone here?
If I remember correctly, most airlines started putting armed air marshals on planes after 911...now why do you think they would do that?
They didn't arm the flight attendants and pilots, they used people whose only job is security/law enforcement...
Your support for arming teachers, is the same as arming the flight attendants, not using air Marshalls
Do people realize most public schools in america have an armed presence already? Every public school in my state has an armed police officer present
PJPOWER... do you have any ideas you support besides guns in America's classrooms?
Leaving it up to someone with a gun to stop a shooter, or shooters, is a crapshoot. You can get a hero type who would lay down their life when unarmed, a loose cannon type like a George Zimmerman that may shoot someone they perceived as a threat or a licensed cop milking his/her retirement who isn't in the least bit interested in taking on someone with an assault rifle. None of them are a solution to making schools safer. They're feel good responses from people who have seen too many movies where the good guy always wins under pressure. Focusing on the idea of arming more people allows for nothing to change while people get a false sense of security.
If all airports did after 9/11 was allow more "good guys" to carry guns on planes would that have been an acceptable solution to anyone here?
If I remember correctly, most airlines started putting armed air marshals on planes after 911...now why do you think they would do that?
They didn't arm the flight attendants and pilots, they used people whose only job is security/law enforcement...
Your support for arming teachers, is the same as arming the flight attendants, not using air Marshalls
Do people realize most public schools in america have an armed presence already? Every public school in my state has an armed police officer present
PJPOWER... do you have any ideas you support besides guns in America's classrooms?
I used to counsel “at risk” students and was always amazed at how easily the majority (especially rural) schools could be accessed. Some even have their main office in the fucking middle of the school where you have to walk past several classrooms to get to it. That’s not securing a campus in my mind. I live in TX, and nowhere near the majority schools/campuses have armed security personnel (again, especially in rural communities). Mandate regular security audits for schools and fine/temporarily close those that do not meet certain standards. Not sure where that baseline would be, but I am sure schools would take security more seriously if it is tied to state or federal funding. Schools are mandated to have fire marshals come in and inspect for deficiencies, so why not do the same for general classroom security? Also, I believe that the public should be notified when public schools are deficient in security standards. I know that a lot of businesses out there higher professional “security experts” to advise them about building security and what to look out for...do schools? I know this doesn’t touch other places, like malls, etc, but I feel that children at school are the most vulnerable population of society and where our main focus on safety should start...and NOW.
Post edited by PJPOWER on
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,719
I think the Second Amendment should be followed exactly as the Founding Fathers intended. Everyone with a modern gun should turn it in and get a musket exactly like the ones the FF were talking about when that amendment was written. That will take care of assault rifles.
Here's hoping the insanity will stop.
Great idea, Kat!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Second amendment states that there needs to be a well “regulated” militia. In my opinion, we have laws surrounding guns but people don’t do their jobs well enough, so shitty people are able to get guns.
Im for registering guns, and I’m for people doing their jobs better.
Im for the right to protection, in what ever legal fashion you feel necessary.
Im for keeping guns away from kids, and crazy people.
I think rubio made a good point in saying that an assault rifle ban wouldn’t have changed anything.
Also, there is no legal definition for “assault” rifle or weapon, so creating laws would be challenging. What is an assault weapon? The way it looks? The type of bullet it has?
People dont understand that all guns, besides revolvers are semi-automatic. You pull the trigger once, and one bullet comes out. The AR15 shoots the same way that a Cult 45 band gun shoots. One bullet at a time.
The second amendement was written at a time when a group of people broke from a shitty government, and it proved challenging. It was written so something like that wouldn’t happen again. It wasn’t written for hunting. A civilian has every right to own a fire arm.
Why cant people admit that 99% of gun owners don’t commit crimes with guns? They don’t shoot people.
I think we need people to be better about actually enforcing current laws. Law enforcement should be trained to stereotype people and make sure communities are safe. parkland law enforcement failed miserably at this.
I think the Second Amendment should be followed exactly as the Founding Fathers intended. Everyone with a modern gun should turn it in and get a musket exactly like the ones the FF were talking about when that amendment was written. That will take care of assault rifles.
Here's hoping the insanity will stop.
Then we should demand speedier trials then too...
The Bill of Rights is a living breathing thing and makes no mention of muskets...
Second amendment states that there needs to be a well “regulated” militia. In my opinion, we have laws surrounding guns but people don’t do their jobs well enough, so shitty people are able to get guns.
Im for registering guns, and I’m for people doing their jobs better.
Im for the right to protection, in what ever legal fashion you feel necessary.
Im for keeping guns away from kids, and crazy people.
I think rubio made a good point in saying that an assault rifle ban wouldn’t have changed anything.
Also, there is no legal definition for “assault” rifle or weapon, so creating laws would be challenging. What is an assault weapon? The way it looks? The type of bullet it has?
People dont understand that all guns, besides revolvers are semi-automatic. You pull the trigger once, and one bullet comes out. The AR15 shoots the same way that a Cult 45 band gun shoots. One bullet at a time.
The second amendement was written at a time when a group of people broke from a shitty government, and it proved challenging. It was written so something like that wouldn’t happen again. It wasn’t written for hunting. A civilian has every right to own a fire arm.
Why cant people admit that 99% of gun owners don’t commit crimes with guns? They don’t shoot people.
I think we need people to be better about actually enforcing current laws. Law enforcement should be trained to stereotype people and make sure communities are safe. parkland law enforcement failed miserably at this.
People should do their jobs better.
when does the greater good outweigh your individual rights? everything in this country that kills people (cigarettes, industries, cars, etc.) we eventually get around to regulating...except guns. the NRA is the greatest PR machine the world has ever seen. it's really fucking sad that some gun owners refuse to compromise even a spec for the greater good. that's why we are where we are. And now your solution is to just allow law enforcement to profile people...wow.
Second amendment states that there needs to be a well “regulated” militia. In my opinion, we have laws surrounding guns but people don’t do their jobs well enough, so shitty people are able to get guns.
Im for registering guns, and I’m for people doing their jobs better.
Im for the right to protection, in what ever legal fashion you feel necessary.
Im for keeping guns away from kids, and crazy people.
I think rubio made a good point in saying that an assault rifle ban wouldn’t have changed anything.
Also, there is no legal definition for “assault” rifle or weapon, so creating laws would be challenging. What is an assault weapon? The way it looks? The type of bullet it has?
People dont understand that all guns, besides revolvers are semi-automatic. You pull the trigger once, and one bullet comes out. The AR15 shoots the same way that a Cult 45 band gun shoots. One bullet at a time.
The second amendement was written at a time when a group of people broke from a shitty government, and it proved challenging. It was written so something like that wouldn’t happen again. It wasn’t written for hunting. A civilian has every right to own a fire arm.
Why cant people admit that 99% of gun owners don’t commit crimes with guns? They don’t shoot people.
I think we need people to be better about actually enforcing current laws. Law enforcement should be trained to stereotype people and make sure communities are safe. parkland law enforcement failed miserably at this.
People should do their jobs better.
when does the greater good outweigh your individual rights? everything in this country that kills people (cigarettes, industries, cars, etc.) we eventually get around to regulating...except guns. the NRA is the greatest PR machine the world has ever seen. it's really fucking sad that some gun owners refuse to compromise even a spec for the greater good. that's why we are where we are. And now your solution is to just allow law enforcement to profile people...wow.
Profiling is the most affective way to stop bad people from doing bad things. Many airports all over the world do this. Highly trained individuals. Don’t you want intelegent law enforcement that can stop these things? The greater good is that millions of people legally own guns to protect them selves and their families, and a few crooked people decided it was a good idea to shoot up schools/public places. Private gun dealers must do better. Law enforcement must do better. The government must do better. We can keep this stuff out of the hands of shitty people.
Ok, a teacher sacrifices his life to save students and a security cop cowered outside and the conclusion you draw is ass-backwards. The lesson I'm hearing is that if the security cop didn't save the day a teacher never could...uh. DUH! A teacher did!!! How can you ignore such a doublethink??
Is this in response to me? I'm not sure I follow
No, a general response to mruss and my2hands and a few others who are using the cops cowardice to justify their feelings that teachers shouldn't be armed, even though a teacher laid his life on the line, unarmed.
Are you for arming teachers then?
I am for allowing physically fit and emotionally stable teachers to arm themselves voluntarily under strict guidelines and supervision if they have passed a thorough vetting, testing, and training program which would be an abbreviated version of police academy standards.
My point was, how can we expect a teacher to hunt down the shooter when a trained cop was unwilling to do it. There's a difference between protecting the children (which too many teachers have done) and acting as a tactical response unit. I'm very supportive of having armed police in the school. My children's district already has cops in schools. But they train full time for these situations. Teachers do not. My wife and I agree that if teachers are armed in our school, they will be home schooled.
Exactly.
There will always be some teachers that love the idea of being armed at school but most of these people just want to teach. They have enough responsibility with that position. Requiring them to go through training to ward off assault weapon fire is beyond their job descriptions.
All this talk is going on while tRump and his band of idiot republicans are trying to cut education budgets wherever possible.
I can't believe some people support this idea. It just seems to crazy to me. Teachers are underpaid to begin with, now we are going to bestow upon some of them the duty of protecting the entire school, in addition to educating these kids?
How are we going to pay for that?
How is the training going to be handled?
What about the insurance/liability implications for having armed teachers walking around school grounds?
How soon before some kid accidentally gets their hands on their teacher's loaded gun at school?
This isn't even putting a band on the problem....to me this is pouring gasoline on a fire.
Leaving it up to someone with a gun to stop a shooter, or shooters, is a crapshoot. You can get a hero type who would lay down their life when unarmed, a loose cannon type like a George Zimmerman that may shoot someone they perceived as a threat or a licensed cop milking his/her retirement who isn't in the least bit interested in taking on someone with an assault rifle. None of them are a solution to making schools safer. They're feel good responses from people who have seen too many movies where the good guy always wins under pressure. Focusing on the idea of arming more people allows for nothing to change while people get a false sense of security.
If all airports did after 9/11 was allow more "good guys" to carry guns on planes would that have been an acceptable solution to anyone here?
If I remember correctly, most airlines started putting armed air marshals on planes after 911...now why do you think they would do that?
They didn't arm the flight attendants and pilots, they used people whose only job is security/law enforcement...
Your support for arming teachers, is the same as arming the flight attendants, not using air Marshalls
Do people realize most public schools in america have an armed presence already? Every public school in my state has an armed police officer present
PJPOWER... do you have any ideas you support besides guns in America's classrooms?
I used to counsel “at risk” students and was always amazed at how easily the majority (especially rural) schools could be accessed. Some even have their main office in the fucking middle of the school where you have to walk past several classrooms to get to it. That’s not securing a campus in my mind. I live in TX, and nowhere near the majority schools/campuses have armed security personnel
Sounds like red states don't like to pay taxes or fund education to me, sorry about your luck...
i've gone to high schools & middle schools in my state on a weekly basis for 15 years and have seen them make changes and invest in infrastructure... main offices are at main entrances... must he buzzed into every school... most schools you also gave to be buzzed through the main office so it's at least 2 doors... everybody must show ID... police officer at every school... staff dedicated to discipline/behavior issues/high risk kids... wellness centers with trained therapeutic staff... child protective workers at all elementary & middle schools...
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,719
Ok, a teacher sacrifices his life to save students and a security cop cowered outside and the conclusion you draw is ass-backwards. The lesson I'm hearing is that if the security cop didn't save the day a teacher never could...uh. DUH! A teacher did!!! How can you ignore such a doublethink??
Is this in response to me? I'm not sure I follow
No, a general response to mruss and my2hands and a few others who are using the cops cowardice to justify their feelings that teachers shouldn't be armed, even though a teacher laid his life on the line, unarmed.
Are you for arming teachers then?
I am for allowing physically fit and emotionally stable teachers to arm themselves voluntarily under strict guidelines and supervision if they have passed a thorough vetting, testing, and training program which would be an abbreviated version of police academy standards.
My point was, how can we expect a teacher to hunt down the shooter when a trained cop was unwilling to do it. There's a difference between protecting the children (which too many teachers have done) and acting as a tactical response unit. I'm very supportive of having armed police in the school. My children's district already has cops in schools. But they train full time for these situations. Teachers do not. My wife and I agree that if teachers are armed in our school, they will be home schooled.
Exactly.
There will always be some teachers that love the idea of being armed at school but most of these people just want to teach. They have enough responsibility with that position. Requiring them to go through training to ward off assault weapon fire is beyond their job descriptions.
All this talk is going on while tRump and his band of idiot republicans are trying to cut education budgets wherever possible.
I can't believe some people support this idea. It just seems to crazy to me. Teachers are underpaid to begin with, now we are going to bestow upon some of them the duty of protecting the entire school, in addition to educating these kids?
How are we going to pay for that?
How is the training going to be handled?
What about the insurance/liability implications for having armed teachers walking around school grounds?
How soon before some kid accidentally gets their hands on their teacher's loaded gun at school?
This isn't even putting a band on the problem....to me this is pouring gasoline on a fire.
The rest of the world is laughing at us.
Exactly! Or shaking their heads in disbelief.
It blows my mind that people are actually suggested that arming teachers is the solution to the problem. What kind of world do these people want to live in? That kind of thinking is a direct line to "Let's just let everybody have guns and see who is left standing". If that's the kind of world we want then I'm damn glad I'm getting old because I want no part of it. But then, I have nieces and nephews and grand nieces and nephews and godchildren and grand-godchildren and I don't want that world for them either so America, cool it with your obsession with guns. It's NOT making the world a better place.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,279
Leaving it up to someone with a gun to stop a shooter, or shooters, is a crapshoot. You can get a hero type who would lay down their life when unarmed, a loose cannon type like a George Zimmerman that may shoot someone they perceived as a threat or a licensed cop milking his/her retirement who isn't in the least bit interested in taking on someone with an assault rifle. None of them are a solution to making schools safer. They're feel good responses from people who have seen too many movies where the good guy always wins under pressure. Focusing on the idea of arming more people allows for nothing to change while people get a false sense of security.
If all airports did after 9/11 was allow more "good guys" to carry guns on planes would that have been an acceptable solution to anyone here?
If I remember correctly, most airlines started putting armed air marshals on planes after 911...now why do you think they would do that?
How would that be the same thing as arming teachers? Wouldn't this analogy work for you more if they started arming flight attendants? Air marshals = security guard/cop in school.
You know what else happened after 9/11? They banned the weapon the terrorists used to seize control of the planes....
Second amendment states that there needs to be a well “regulated” militia. In my opinion, we have laws surrounding guns but people don’t do their jobs well enough, so shitty people are able to get guns.
Im for registering guns, and I’m for people doing their jobs better.
Im for the right to protection, in what ever legal fashion you feel necessary.
Im for keeping guns away from kids, and crazy people.
I think rubio made a good point in saying that an assault rifle ban wouldn’t have changed anything.
Also, there is no legal definition for “assault” rifle or weapon, so creating laws would be challenging. What is an assault weapon? The way it looks? The type of bullet it has?
People dont understand that all guns, besides revolvers are semi-automatic. You pull the trigger once, and one bullet comes out. The AR15 shoots the same way that a Cult 45 band gun shoots. One bullet at a time.
The second amendement was written at a time when a group of people broke from a shitty government, and it proved challenging. It was written so something like that wouldn’t happen again. It wasn’t written for hunting. A civilian has every right to own a fire arm.
Why cant people admit that 99% of gun owners don’t commit crimes with guns? They don’t shoot people.
I think we need people to be better about actually enforcing current laws. Law enforcement should be trained to stereotype people and make sure communities are safe. parkland law enforcement failed miserably at this.
People should do their jobs better.
when does the greater good outweigh your individual rights? everything in this country that kills people (cigarettes, industries, cars, etc.) we eventually get around to regulating...except guns. the NRA is the greatest PR machine the world has ever seen. it's really fucking sad that some gun owners refuse to compromise even a spec for the greater good. that's why we are where we are. And now your solution is to just allow law enforcement to profile people...wow.
Profiling is the most affective way to stop bad people from doing bad things. Many airports all over the world do this. Highly trained individuals. Don’t you want intelegent law enforcement that can stop these things? The greater good is that millions of people legally own guns to protect them selves and their families, and a few crooked people decided it was a good idea to shoot up schools/public places. Private gun dealers must do better. Law enforcement must do better. The government must do better. We can keep this stuff out of the hands of shitty people.
ha ha i love this comment. i hear it all the time from gun people. where do you live that you need to protect yourself and your family? 99.9% of people never need to protect themselves from a home invasion of any sort. it's just not something that happens. people you don't know aren't coming to kill you in your home. it's an irrational fear. do you know anyone who has ever had to use a gun to protect themselves in their own home from the boogie man you gun owners fear?
and are you using an assault rifle to protect your family?
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,279
Second amendment states that there needs to be a well “regulated” militia. In my opinion, we have laws surrounding guns but people don’t do their jobs well enough, so shitty people are able to get guns.
Im for registering guns, and I’m for people doing their jobs better.
Im for the right to protection, in what ever legal fashion you feel necessary.
Im for keeping guns away from kids, and crazy people.
I think rubio made a good point in saying that an assault rifle ban wouldn’t have changed anything.
Also, there is no legal definition for “assault” rifle or weapon, so creating laws would be challenging. What is an assault weapon? The way it looks? The type of bullet it has?
People dont understand that all guns, besides revolvers are semi-automatic. You pull the trigger once, and one bullet comes out. The AR15 shoots the same way that a Cult 45 band gun shoots. One bullet at a time.
The second amendement was written at a time when a group of people broke from a shitty government, and it proved challenging. It was written so something like that wouldn’t happen again. It wasn’t written for hunting. A civilian has every right to own a fire arm.
Why cant people admit that 99% of gun owners don’t commit crimes with guns? They don’t shoot people.
I think we need people to be better about actually enforcing current laws. Law enforcement should be trained to stereotype people and make sure communities are safe. parkland law enforcement failed miserably at this.
People should do their jobs better.
when does the greater good outweigh your individual rights? everything in this country that kills people (cigarettes, industries, cars, etc.) we eventually get around to regulating...except guns. the NRA is the greatest PR machine the world has ever seen. it's really fucking sad that some gun owners refuse to compromise even a spec for the greater good. that's why we are where we are. And now your solution is to just allow law enforcement to profile people...wow.
Profiling is the most affective way to stop bad people from doing bad things. Many airports all over the world do this. Highly trained individuals. Don’t you want intelegent law enforcement that can stop these things? The greater good is that millions of people legally own guns to protect them selves and their families, and a few crooked people decided it was a good idea to shoot up schools/public places. Private gun dealers must do better. Law enforcement must do better. The government must do better. We can keep this stuff out of the hands of shitty people.
ha ha i love this comment. i hear it all the time from gun people. where do you live that you need to protect yourself and your family? 99.9% of people never need to protect themselves from a home invasion of any sort. it's just not something that happens. people you don't know aren't coming to kill you in your home. it's an irrational fear. do you know anyone who has ever had to use a gun to protect themselves in their own home from the boogie man you gun owners fear?
and are you using an assault rifle to protect your family?
They live in a fantasy world because they've been brainwashed by the NRA over the last 10-20 years. Just listen to LaPierre's speech yesterday. Fucking craziness.
Those 17 children lost ALL their rights so that a small % can retain their right to these weapons of war. Seems a little fucked up.
At which the FBI dropped the ball and the guard became a coward so there is PLENTY of blame to be thrown around.
That the FBI dropped the ball is really neither here nor there unless we assume all, or even most, future shootings will be as predictable as this one is suggested to have been.
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The nerve of Trump and others to call the cop a coward when they have done fuck all to stop this kind of act by banning assault weapons.
Those spineless politicians are afraid to take a stand against the NRA, and the cop is a coward for not going into a battle with someone armed with an assault weapon.
Leaving it up to someone with a gun to stop a shooter, or shooters, is a crapshoot. You can get a hero type who would lay down their life when unarmed, a loose cannon type like a George Zimmerman that may shoot someone they perceived as a threat or a licensed cop milking his/her retirement who isn't in the least bit interested in taking on someone with an assault rifle. None of them are a solution to making schools safer. They're feel good responses from people who have seen too many movies where the good guy always wins under pressure. Focusing on the idea of arming more people allows for nothing to change while people get a false sense of security.
If all airports did after 9/11 was allow more "good guys" to carry guns on planes would that have been an acceptable solution to anyone here?
If I remember correctly, most airlines started putting armed air marshals on planes after 911...now why do you think they would do that?
They didn't arm the flight attendants and pilots, they used people whose only job is security/law enforcement...
Your support for arming teachers, is the same as arming the flight attendants, not using air Marshalls
Do people realize most public schools in america have an armed presence already? Every public school in my state has an armed police officer present
PJPOWER... do you have any ideas you support besides guns in America's classrooms?
I used to counsel “at risk” students and was always amazed at how easily the majority (especially rural) schools could be accessed. Some even have their main office in the fucking middle of the school where you have to walk past several classrooms to get to it. That’s not securing a campus in my mind. I live in TX, and nowhere near the majority schools/campuses have armed security personnel
Sounds like red states don't like to pay taxes or fund education to me, sorry about your luck...
i've gone to high schools & middle schools in my state on a weekly basis for 15 years and have seen them make changes and invest in infrastructure... main offices are at main entrances... must he buzzed into every school... most schools you also gave to be buzzed through the main office so it's at least 2 doors... everybody must show ID... police officer at every school... staff dedicated to discipline/behavior issues/high risk kids... wellness centers with trained therapeutic staff... child protective workers at all elementary & middle schools...
Don’t get me wrong, a lot have gone that route and paid heavily to redesign entrances with buzzers and things, but the smaller districts often drop the ball here.
Leaving it up to someone with a gun to stop a shooter, or shooters, is a crapshoot. You can get a hero type who would lay down their life when unarmed, a loose cannon type like a George Zimmerman that may shoot someone they perceived as a threat or a licensed cop milking his/her retirement who isn't in the least bit interested in taking on someone with an assault rifle. None of them are a solution to making schools safer. They're feel good responses from people who have seen too many movies where the good guy always wins under pressure. Focusing on the idea of arming more people allows for nothing to change while people get a false sense of security.
If all airports did after 9/11 was allow more "good guys" to carry guns on planes would that have been an acceptable solution to anyone here?
If I remember correctly, most airlines started putting armed air marshals on planes after 911...now why do you think they would do that?
How would that be the same thing as arming teachers? Wouldn't this analogy work for you more if they started arming flight attendants? Air marshals = security guard/cop in school.
You know what else happened after 9/11? They banned the weapon the terrorists used to seize control of the planes....
I would be okay with airlines arming pilots and even if the flight attendants had access to a vault with a pistol carrying frangible ammunition, u?
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Those 17 children lost ALL their rights so that a small % can retain their right to these weapons of war. Seems a little fucked up.
At which the FBI dropped the ball and the guard became a coward so there is PLENTY of blame to be thrown around.
That the FBI dropped the ball is really neither here nor there unless we assume all, or even most, future shootings will be as predictable as this one is suggested to have been.
The FBI admitted to dropping the ball so it is here and there.
Those 17 children lost ALL their rights so that a small % can retain their right to these weapons of war. Seems a little fucked up.
At which the FBI dropped the ball and the guard became a coward so there is PLENTY of blame to be thrown around.
That the FBI dropped the ball is really neither here nor there unless we assume all, or even most, future shootings will be as predictable as this one is suggested to have been.
The FBI admitted to dropping the ball so it is here and there.
I think so. It would have been one thing if the agency had followed protocols and this asshat just slipped through the cracks. It’s entirely another thing when they did not even follow protocol...gross negligence by the agency specifically designed to identify and stop these types of people. What’s the point of an FBI background check when they don’t even follow protocol in putting the important information in the system???
Those 17 children lost ALL their rights so that a small % can retain their right to these weapons of war. Seems a little fucked up.
At which the FBI dropped the ball and the guard became a coward so there is PLENTY of blame to be thrown around.
That the FBI dropped the ball is really neither here nor there unless we assume all, or even most, future shootings will be as predictable as this one is suggested to have been.
The FBI admitted to dropping the ball so it is here and there.
For assessing blame for what just happened? Yes. For improvement in the future? Sure. But the problem with shootings is going to usually highlight shooters about whom the FBI is not warned about. So blaming the FBI in response to "Those 17 children lost ALL their rights so that a small % can retain their right to these weapons of war. Seems a little fucked up" is neither here nor there. Future children/people will lose their lives for the same reason. It's not going to be the FBI's fault every time.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Those 17 children lost ALL their rights so that a small % can retain their right to these weapons of war. Seems a little fucked up.
At which the FBI dropped the ball and the guard became a coward so there is PLENTY of blame to be thrown around.
That the FBI dropped the ball is really neither here nor there unless we assume all, or even most, future shootings will be as predictable as this one is suggested to have been.
The FBI admitted to dropping the ball so it is here and there.
For assessing blame for what just happened? Yes. For improvement in the future? Sure. But the problem with shootings is going to usually highlight shooters about whom the FBI is not warned about. So blaming the FBI in response to "Those 17 children lost ALL their rights so that a small % can retain their right to these weapons of war. Seems a little fucked up" is neither here nor there. Future children/people will lose their lives for the same reason. It's not going to be the FBI's fault every time.
Comments
Your support for arming teachers, is the same as arming the flight attendants, not using air Marshalls
Do people realize most public schools in america have an armed presence already? Every public school in my state has an armed police officer present
PJPOWER... do you have any ideas you support besides guns in America's classrooms?
It's all about the right to SELL arms... LOTS of them
The sooner you figure out you're nothing but a customer, and this has squat to do with your safety or rights, the better off this shithole will be. It gives me hope seeing these kids understand that
Mandate regular security audits for schools and fine/temporarily close those that do not meet certain standards. Not sure where that baseline would be, but I am sure schools would take security more seriously if it is tied to state or federal funding. Schools are mandated to have fire marshals come in and inspect for deficiencies, so why not do the same for general classroom security? Also, I believe that the public should be notified when public schools are deficient in security standards.
I know that a lot of businesses out there higher professional “security experts” to advise them about building security and what to look out for...do schools?
I know this doesn’t touch other places, like malls, etc, but I feel that children at school are the most vulnerable population of society and where our main focus on safety should start...and NOW.
Im for registering guns, and I’m for people doing their jobs better.
Im for the right to protection, in what ever legal fashion you feel necessary.
Im for keeping guns away from kids, and crazy people.
I think rubio made a good point in saying that an assault rifle ban wouldn’t have changed anything.
Also, there is no legal definition for “assault” rifle or weapon, so creating laws would be challenging. What is an assault weapon? The way it looks? The type of bullet it has?
People dont understand that all guns, besides revolvers are semi-automatic. You pull the trigger once, and one bullet comes out. The AR15 shoots the same way that a Cult 45 band gun shoots. One bullet at a time.
The second amendement was written at a time when a group of people broke from a shitty government, and it proved challenging. It was written so something like that wouldn’t happen again. It wasn’t written for hunting. A civilian has every right to own a fire arm.
Why cant people admit that 99% of gun owners don’t commit crimes with guns? They don’t shoot people.
I think we need people to be better about actually enforcing current laws. Law enforcement should be trained to stereotype people and make sure communities are safe. parkland law enforcement failed miserably at this.
People should do their jobs better.
The Bill of Rights is a living breathing thing and makes no mention of muskets...
I can't believe some people support this idea. It just seems to crazy to me. Teachers are underpaid to begin with, now we are going to bestow upon some of them the duty of protecting the entire school, in addition to educating these kids?
How are we going to pay for that?
How is the training going to be handled?
What about the insurance/liability implications for having armed teachers walking around school grounds?
How soon before some kid accidentally gets their hands on their teacher's loaded gun at school?
This isn't even putting a band on the problem....to me this is pouring gasoline on a fire.
The rest of the world is laughing at us.
i've gone to high schools & middle schools in my state on a weekly basis for 15 years and have seen them make changes and invest in infrastructure... main offices are at main entrances... must he buzzed into every school... most schools you also gave to be buzzed through the main office so it's at least 2 doors... everybody must show ID... police officer at every school... staff dedicated to discipline/behavior issues/high risk kids... wellness centers with trained therapeutic staff... child protective workers at all elementary & middle schools...
It blows my mind that people are actually suggested that arming teachers is the solution to the problem. What kind of world do these people want to live in? That kind of thinking is a direct line to "Let's just let everybody have guns and see who is left standing". If that's the kind of world we want then I'm damn glad I'm getting old because I want no part of it. But then, I have nieces and nephews and grand nieces and nephews and godchildren and grand-godchildren and I don't want that world for them either so America, cool it with your obsession with guns. It's NOT making the world a better place.
How would that be the same thing as arming teachers? Wouldn't this analogy work for you more if they started arming flight attendants? Air marshals = security guard/cop in school.
You know what else happened after 9/11? They banned the weapon the terrorists used to seize control of the planes....
and are you using an assault rifle to protect your family?
They live in a fantasy world because they've been brainwashed by the NRA over the last 10-20 years. Just listen to LaPierre's speech yesterday. Fucking craziness.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
Those spineless politicians are afraid to take a stand against the NRA, and the cop is a coward for not going into a battle with someone armed with an assault weapon.
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/utah-teacher-shoots-herself-the-leg-while-school
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin