Roy Moore

CM189191 · December 2017

“Innocent until proven guilty” is a legal presumption, not an immutable truth.

It has meaning only in the criminal justice system, and even there it is not to be taken literally. In the criminal justice system, people are not truly innocent until proven guilty, they are merely presumed to be innocent until proven guilty. Big difference.

The legal presumption of innocence is not the same as innocence itself. Charles Manson and Timothy McVeigh were never innocent, even though they were presumed to be so at trial. They were killers because they killed people, not because they were convicted. Their convictions only made it possible for the government to hold them accountable.

Similarly, a person who commits a crime does not magically become innocent because a judge or jury enters a verdict of not guilty. The jury’s acquittal of O.J. Simpson, for instance, doesn’t mean that he didn’t kill his wife. It only means that the jury wasn’t convinced that the government had proven guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. That, in turn, means that the government can’t punish him for that particular crime.

The Clintons have been put through the wringer with investigations for 3 decades and nothing has stuck. How much stock do you put into a smear campaign, until you realize there is no substance there?

KC138045 · December 2017

unsung said:

Except Roy Moore.

Are you seriously defending Roy Moore? I typically lean republican but Roy Moore is a piece of shit on many levels and I wouldn't vote for him in any type of election.

Jason P · December 2017

KC138045 said:

unsung said:

Except Roy Moore.

Are you seriously defending Roy Moore? I typically lean republican but Roy Moore is a piece of shit on many levels and I wouldn't vote for him in any type of election.

But one of his lawyers is a Jew. See? Great guy!

KC138045 · December 2017

Jason P said:

KC138045 said:

unsung said:

Except Roy Moore.

Are you seriously defending Roy Moore? I typically lean republican but Roy Moore is a piece of shit on many levels and I wouldn't vote for him in any type of election.

But one of his lawyers is a Jew. See? Great guy!

And him and his wife fellowship with the blacks lol

Bentleyspop · December 2017

KC138045 said:

Jason P said:

KC138045 said:

unsung said:

Except Roy Moore.

Are you seriously defending Roy Moore? I typically lean republican but Roy Moore is a piece of shit on many levels and I wouldn't vote for him in any type of election.

But one of his lawyers is a Jew. See? Great guy!

And him and his wife fellowship with the blacks lol

dont forget the guns....we love the guns

Halifax2TheMax · December 2017

KC138045 said:

unsung said:

Except Roy Moore.

Are you seriously defending Roy Moore? I typically lean republican but Roy Moore is a piece of shit on many levels and I wouldn't vote for him in any type of election.

Of course.

JimmyV · December 2017

unsung said:

JimmyV said:

unsung said:

josevolution said:

unsung said:

Interesting strategy. Get a bunch of people to make accusations that are 30+ years old to ruin a campaign. Even caught one accuser lying.

Truth or not there should be an investigation and either guilt or innocence proclaimed. People, every person, is supposed to be considered innocent until proven guilty.

wtf ok so please tell us who got these women to come forward and it's not a bunch of people these are women do you have any women in your life that you care about ? damn dude , i agree with your statemen everyone is innocent till proven guilty but for you to dismiss these women's account of events that happened to them is absurd ....

Well when they accuse billy pervert clinton they were all lying. That guy actually raped.

And there it is. Because innocent until proven guilty will never, ever apply to the Clintons.

I'll change my choice of wording from people to human, of which doesn't apply to the Clintons.

If you had any credibility left this series of posts would be rather damaging to it. As it is you don't so it doesn't really matter.

Spiritual_Chaos · December 2017

unsung said:

josevolution said:

unsung said:

Interesting strategy. Get a bunch of people to make accusations that are 30+ years old to ruin a campaign. Even caught one accuser lying.

Truth or not there should be an investigation and either guilt or innocence proclaimed. People, every person, is supposed to be considered innocent until proven guilty.

wtf ok so please tell us who got these women to come forward and it's not a bunch of people these are women do you have any women in your life that you care about ? damn dude , i agree with your statemen everyone is innocent till proven guilty but for you to dismiss these women's account of events that happened to them is absurd ....

Well when they accuse billy pervert clinton they were all lying. That guy actually raped.

CM189191 · December 2017

this is terrifying.

Why These Alabama Voters Are Sticking By Roy Moore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjLMAoejW-A&t=10s

I mean, it's one thing to go back and forth with the derp crowd on the internet. But to actually hear them say some of these things out loud is insane.

lolobugg · December 2017

CM189191 said:

this is terrifying.

Why These Alabama Voters Are Sticking By Roy Moore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjLMAoejW-A&t=10s

I mean, it's one thing to go back and forth with the derp crowd on the internet. But to actually hear them say some of these things out loud is insane.

These people suffer from a disease called "Evangelical Christianity".

It really destroys brain cells at a rapid rate.

lolobugg · December 2017

this thread should be retitled "Doug Jones"

I would like to send the bastard know as Roy Moore to the dustbin of history where he belongs.

PJ_Soul · December 2017

lolobugg said:

CM189191 said:

this is terrifying.

Why These Alabama Voters Are Sticking By Roy Moore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjLMAoejW-A&t=10s

I mean, it's one thing to go back and forth with the derp crowd on the internet. But to actually hear them say some of these things out loud is insane.

These people suffer from a disease called "Evangelical Christianity".
It really destroys brain cells at a rapid rate.

The most potent free drug in the world. Well, free until their preachers tell them they have to hand over all their money to the church, lol.

jjflash · December 2017

I'm from Alabama and thrilled (and a bit surprised) the majority spoke and decency, morality and common sense prevailed. Yes, there are a lot of narrow-minded bigots that live here (aren't there at least a few everywhere?). BUT, there's also a lot of thoughtful, inclusive, progressive people as well. The fact that Roy Moore got as far as he did does not bode well for my home state, nor our country for that matter, but I celebrate the cartoonish, anachronistic, deviant who masquerades as a Christian lost the election, and, more importantly, a man of good character and progressive ideas WON

brianlux · December 2017

CM189191 said:

this is terrifying.

Why These Alabama Voters Are Sticking By Roy Moore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjLMAoejW-A&t=10s

I mean, it's one thing to go back and forth with the derp crowd on the internet. But to actually hear them say some of these things out loud is insane.

Add to this, I saw on FB a post that included Moore supporters who were talking about how it is OK for an older man to date a 15 year old, how that used to be acceptable (as if that made it still acceptable) and so forth. Basically, they were supporting the idea of pedophilia. Maybe someone here can find that video and post it. It's pretty amazing how backwards thinking some of these idiots are.

lolobugg · December 2017

jjflash said:

I'm from Alabama and thrilled (and a bit surprised) the majority spoke and decency, morality and common sense prevailed. Yes, there are a lot of narrow-minded bigots that live here (aren't there at least a few everywhere?). BUT, there's also a lot of thoughtful, inclusive, progressive people as well. The fact that Roy Moore got as far as he did does not bode well for my home state, nor our country for that matter, but I celebrate the cartoonish, anachronistic, deviant who masquerades as a Christian lost the election, and, more importantly, a man of good character and progressive ideas WON

I was proud of all of you from my old home state!! it was an awesome surprise to wake up to on Wednesday.

It went a long way to show that the under 50 year old voters in Alabama do not think the way that our parents did.

Once the Baby Boomers are gone, you will see a Sea Change in Alabama politics as well as other southern states.

brianlux · December 2017

lolobugg said:

jjflash said:

I'm from Alabama and thrilled (and a bit surprised) the majority spoke and decency, morality and common sense prevailed. Yes, there are a lot of narrow-minded bigots that live here (aren't there at least a few everywhere?). BUT, there's also a lot of thoughtful, inclusive, progressive people as well. The fact that Roy Moore got as far as he did does not bode well for my home state, nor our country for that matter, but I celebrate the cartoonish, anachronistic, deviant who masquerades as a Christian lost the election, and, more importantly, a man of good character and progressive ideas WON

I was proud of all of you from my old home state!! it was an awesome surprise to wake up to on Wednesday.
It went a long way to show that the under 50 year old voters in Alabama do not think the way that our parents did.
Once the Baby Boomers are gone, you will see a Sea Change in Alabama politics as well as other southern states.

OUCH! Sorry--

But no, seriously, I get where you're saying and I truly hope it is so!

Edit: I want to expand on this thought a bit because it's something that concerns me (and take it beyond just the southern states).

I am a baby boomer and my generation was going to "change the world". In 1964, free speech advocate and environmental activist Jack Weinberg said, "Don't trust anyone over 30". That phrase became one of the baby boomer mottoes. People like Bill Zimmerman worked hard to put an end to the war in Vietnam and a lot of our generation stood with him on that issue. American Indian Movement leader Dennis Banks and others put their lives on the line to defend Native American rights and many our age cheered then on. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X lost their lives in an effort to free black men and women and they made huge gains that wa

And yet,there is still so far to go. In the long run, did my generation change the world? If you're of a younger generation, you tell me. I'd love to hear the reply be, "Oh yes, absolutely!" And yes, I think we did instigate some changes but as a member of that generation, I find it hard not to believe we let you down.

So what happened? Why did "the dawning of the age of Aquarius" not make the world the beautiful peaceful groovy place it was supposed to? (And there's an unintended hint in that line from the song, isn't there?) The answer is simple: we were privileged and (mostly) white and when push came to shove, most of us, when it came time to choose between change and comfort, opted for comfort. We got into careers, had babies (some of you!) acquired debt, got a mortgage and a house and a new car and "audiophile" stereos. Or, we were black, brown or yellow and if we were lucky got to wear bell bottoms and platform shoes on a TV show or got signed on to the 49ers or the Twins or the Celtics (or didn't really see all that much change after all).

So lolobug, when you say, "Once the Baby Boomers are gone, you will see a Sea Change in Alabama politics as well as other southern states" (and I know you mean this with all honest and integrity and intent) please remember that we boomers did make some changes for the good but also, please understand how, in many ways, we fell miserably short of the mark and try not to follow our footsteps in the same manner.

I am so glad Moore lost and Jones won, but this was as much or more a black vote victory as it was a generational victory (see the stats I posted on page 4 of this thread). But younger voters did play a role. I hope that role does grow stronger.

So I'll end on a positive note by saying I think you guys can do it. Time flies and not to far down the road, I and my fellow boomers will, indeed, be gone. Where things stand then will be up to you guys. I believe in you. I think you can do it.

mrussel1 · December 2017

This is a great post Brian. It is important to remember the contributions, particularly around Civil Rights. But not every Boomer was for it, just like anything else. The world is complicated and people are not homogeneous. I'm gen X and will soon be seen as an impediment to progress. Then it's the Millenials turn... I guess it's the wisdom the old can't give away...

lolobugg · December 2017

brianlux said:

lolobugg said:

jjflash said:

I'm from Alabama and thrilled (and a bit surprised) the majority spoke and decency, morality and common sense prevailed. Yes, there are a lot of narrow-minded bigots that live here (aren't there at least a few everywhere?). BUT, there's also a lot of thoughtful, inclusive, progressive people as well. The fact that Roy Moore got as far as he did does not bode well for my home state, nor our country for that matter, but I celebrate the cartoonish, anachronistic, deviant who masquerades as a Christian lost the election, and, more importantly, a man of good character and progressive ideas WON

I was proud of all of you from my old home state!! it was an awesome surprise to wake up to on Wednesday.
It went a long way to show that the under 50 year old voters in Alabama do not think the way that our parents did.
Once the Baby Boomers are gone, you will see a Sea Change in Alabama politics as well as other southern states.

OUCH! Sorry--

But no, seriously, I get where you're saying and I truly hope it is so!

Edit: I want to expand on this thought a bit because it's something that concerns me (and take it beyond just the southern states).

I am a baby boomer and my generation was going to "change the world". In 1964, free speech advocate and environmental activist Jack Weinberg said, "Don't trust anyone over 30". That phrase became one of the baby boomer mottoes. People like Bill Zimmerman worked hard to put an end to the war in Vietnam and a lot of our generation stood with him on that issue. American Indian Movement leader Dennis Banks and others put their lives on the line to defend Native American rights and many our age cheered then on. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X lost their lives in an effort to free black men and women and they made huge gains that wa

And yet,there is still so far to go. In the long run, did my generation change the world? If you're of a younger generation, you tell me. I'd love to hear the reply be, "Oh yes, absolutely!" And yes, I think we did instigate some changes but as a member of that generation, I find it hard not to believe we let you down.

So what happened? Why did "the dawning of the age of Aquarius" not make the world the beautiful peaceful groovy place it was supposed to? (And there's an unintended hint in that line from the song, isn't there?) The answer is simple: we were privileged and (mostly) white and when push came to shove, most of us, when it came time to choose between change and comfort, opted for comfort. We got into careers, had babies (some of you!) acquired debt, got a mortgage and a house and a new car and "audiophile" stereos. Or, we were black, brown or yellow and if we were lucky got to wear bell bottoms and platform shoes on a TV show or got signed on to the 49ers or the Twins or the Celtics (or didn't really see all that much change after all).

So lolobug, when you say, "Once the Baby Boomers are gone, you will see a Sea Change in Alabama politics as well as other southern states" (and I know you mean this with all honest and integrity and intent) please remember that we boomers did make some changes for the good but also, please understand how, in many ways, we fell miserably short of the mark and try not to follow our footsteps in the same manner.

I am so glad Moore lost and Jones won, but this was as much or more a black vote victory as it was a generational victory (see the stats I posted on page 4 of this thread). But younger voters did play a role. I hope that role does grow stronger.

So I'll end on a positive note by saying I think you guys can do it. Time flies and not to far down the road, I and my fellow boomers will, indeed, be gone. Where things stand then will be up to you guys. I believe in you. I think you can do it.

Brian. as usual, your post said it way better than I could ever hope to articulate.

I think the "Boomers" inspired a lot of positive change when they were young but I can't help thinking that somewhere around the 80s they lost their way and bought into the "American Dream" or whatever that means. I am reminded of the Neil Young song "Walk Like a Giant". pretty much the musical version of your post.

And I admit that I wasn't thinking about the progress you guys made in the 60s.... I have heard it from my ex-father in law who knew Abbie Hoffman and was in the SDS. I just can't reconcile it with the way the generation has ended up.

and as a Gen X'er I don't even believe that my generation will make a difference... still too many residuals of hate and bigotry that we carry. Millennials, for all the shit they get, see the world in a much more colourblind view. I am hopefully that they can do things we never even attempted.

and Brian, you my friend are a truly good guy and I wish more Boomers would've turned out like you.

brianlux · December 2017

mrussel1 said:

This is a great post Brian. It is important to remember the contributions, particularly around Civil Rights. But not every Boomer was for it, just like anything else. The world is complicated and people are not homogeneous. I'm gen X and will soon be seen as an impediment to progress. Then it's the Millenials turn... I guess it's the wisdom the old can't give away...

lolobugg said:

brianlux said:

lolobugg said:

jjflash said:

I'm from Alabama and thrilled (and a bit surprised) the majority spoke and decency, morality and common sense prevailed. Yes, there are a lot of narrow-minded bigots that live here (aren't there at least a few everywhere?). BUT, there's also a lot of thoughtful, inclusive, progressive people as well. The fact that Roy Moore got as far as he did does not bode well for my home state, nor our country for that matter, but I celebrate the cartoonish, anachronistic, deviant who masquerades as a Christian lost the election, and, more importantly, a man of good character and progressive ideas WON

I was proud of all of you from my old home state!! it was an awesome surprise to wake up to on Wednesday.
It went a long way to show that the under 50 year old voters in Alabama do not think the way that our parents did.
Once the Baby Boomers are gone, you will see a Sea Change in Alabama politics as well as other southern states.

OUCH! Sorry--

But no, seriously, I get where you're saying and I truly hope it is so!

Edit: I want to expand on this thought a bit because it's something that concerns me (and take it beyond just the southern states).

I am a baby boomer and my generation was going to "change the world". In 1964, free speech advocate and environmental activist Jack Weinberg said, "Don't trust anyone over 30". That phrase became one of the baby boomer mottoes. People like Bill Zimmerman worked hard to put an end to the war in Vietnam and a lot of our generation stood with him on that issue. American Indian Movement leader Dennis Banks and others put their lives on the line to defend Native American rights and many our age cheered then on. Martin Luther King and Malcolm X lost their lives in an effort to free black men and women and they made huge gains that wa

And yet,there is still so far to go. In the long run, did my generation change the world? If you're of a younger generation, you tell me. I'd love to hear the reply be, "Oh yes, absolutely!" And yes, I think we did instigate some changes but as a member of that generation, I find it hard not to believe we let you down.

So what happened? Why did "the dawning of the age of Aquarius" not make the world the beautiful peaceful groovy place it was supposed to? (And there's an unintended hint in that line from the song, isn't there?) The answer is simple: we were privileged and (mostly) white and when push came to shove, most of us, when it came time to choose between change and comfort, opted for comfort. We got into careers, had babies (some of you!) acquired debt, got a mortgage and a house and a new car and "audiophile" stereos. Or, we were black, brown or yellow and if we were lucky got to wear bell bottoms and platform shoes on a TV show or got signed on to the 49ers or the Twins or the Celtics (or didn't really see all that much change after all).

So lolobug, when you say, "Once the Baby Boomers are gone, you will see a Sea Change in Alabama politics as well as other southern states" (and I know you mean this with all honest and integrity and intent) please remember that we boomers did make some changes for the good but also, please understand how, in many ways, we fell miserably short of the mark and try not to follow our footsteps in the same manner.

I am so glad Moore lost and Jones won, but this was as much or more a black vote victory as it was a generational victory (see the stats I posted on page 4 of this thread). But younger voters did play a role. I hope that role does grow stronger.

So I'll end on a positive note by saying I think you guys can do it. Time flies and not to far down the road, I and my fellow boomers will, indeed, be gone. Where things stand then will be up to you guys. I believe in you. I think you can do it.

Brian. as usual, your post said it way better than I could ever hope to articulate.
I think the "Boomers" inspired a lot of positive change when they were young but I can't help thinking that somewhere around the 80s they lost their way and bought into the "American Dream" or whatever that means. I am reminded of the Neil Young song "Walk Like a Giant". pretty much the musical version of your post.
And I admit that I wasn't thinking about the progress you guys made in the 60s.... I have heard it from my ex-father in law who knew Abbie Hoffman and was in the SDS. I just can't reconcile it with the way the generation has ended up.
and as a Gen X'er I don't even believe that my generation will make a difference... still too many residuals of hate and bigotry that we carry. Millennials, for all the shit they get, see the world in a much more colourblind view. I am hopefully that they can do things we never even attempted.
and Brian, you my friend are a truly good guy and I wish more Boomers would've turned out like you.

mrussel and lolo, you both (and so many others here) care and even if we don't all agree all of the time, it's that caring and striving to be more aware that gives us hope. I don't see that so much with my generation any more (although there are still people my age who work to make the world better and who think about more than just nostalgia or what ever) but I still see it in many Gen X'ers and Millenials. For example, there are few sites geared toward boomers that have a place like AMT. This place is a go-to for me that way. I'm thankful for that and thankful for you good folks!

gimmesometruth27 · December 2017

still
not
conceding

seriously. take your loss like a man and move on with your life.

gimmesometruth27 · December 2017

https://twitter.com/JordanUhl/status/940812997831938050

my2hands · December 2017

I saw a lot of younger folks wearing khakis/white polos carrying tiki torches recently

Smellyman · December 2017

Wall Street Reagan, trickle down conservatives, 'Greed is good' came along.

How'd that work out?

Spiritual_Chaos · December 2017

He wants one million from his supporters for a recount.

josevolution · December 2017

Please you old pervert just go off and fall of a cliff just make sure your horse doesn’t go with you ..

brianlux · December 2017

Moore is making a fool of himself. Let him carry on- it will just prove all the more what he is about.

Halifax2TheMax · December 2017

brianlux said:

Moore is making a fool of himself. Let him carry on- it will just prove all the more what he is about.

And those who support him, like Team Trump Treason’s base.

brianlux · December 2017

Halifax2TheMax said:

brianlux said:

Moore is making a fool of himself. Let him carry on- it will just prove all the more what he is about.

And those who support him, like Team Trump Treason’s base.

Exactly!

I sure hope we are beginning to see that people in general are beginning to understand that this odd assortment of nefarious, deplorable figures are not worthy of public office.

mrussel1 · December 2017

When you are so delusional that you actually believe yourself to be on a real life "crusade", you can't concede. His worldview literally prevents him from doing so.

Roy Moore

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