America's Gun Violence

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  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,786
    unsung said:
    Just saw a stat that police have killed more people since 2016 than all of the mass shootings over the last 40 years.  
    Just saw a report that white supremacist groups are infiltrating local and state law enforcement
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    How many of these shooters were prescribed anti-depressants?
  • CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Just saw a stat that police have killed more people since 2016 than all of the mass shootings over the last 40 years.  
    Just saw a report that white supremacist groups are infiltrating local and state law enforcement
    There are various criminal groups that have infiltrated police departments. This report you have seen should come as no surprise.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Just saw a stat that police have killed more people since 2016 than all of the mass shootings over the last 40 years.  
    Just saw a report that white supremacist groups are infiltrating local and state law enforcement
    There are various criminal groups that have infiltrated police departments. This report you have seen should come as no surprise.
    They’ve also infiltrated the military. There’s a whole bunch of Timothy McVeighs being created.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,587
    unsung said:
    How many of these shooters were prescribed anti-depressants?
    This one goes under reaching for correlations rather than deal with America’s gun problem. 
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,786
    unsung said:
    How many of these shooters were prescribed anti-depressants?
    How many of these shooters had guns?

    (spoiler: all of them)
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    So are you calling for a gun ban?
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,587
    unsung said:
    So are you calling for a gun ban?
    Not just a gun ban, but a police officer stationed in everyone’s home to make sure there’s no funny business. 
  • unsung said:
    So are you calling for a gun ban?
    Not just a gun ban, but a police officer stationed in everyone’s home to make sure there’s no funny business. 
    Great. Now Unsung won't be available to respond to my post because he read this one and darted off to WalMart to buy another gun, a video surveillance system, and a shitload of ammo.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,936
    unsung said:
    So are you calling for a gun ban?
    Not just a gun ban, but a police officer stationed in everyone’s home to make sure there’s no funny business. 
    Great. Now Unsung won't be available to respond to my post because he read this one and darted off to WalMart to buy another gun, a video surveillance system, and a shitload of ammo.
    and good luck finding any tin foil...
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,786
    unsung said:
    So are you calling for a gun ban?
    Yes.
    guns should be banned.
    people should be banned from obtaining guns.
    people should be banned from transferring gun ownership.

    not all guns, and not all people.  just a lot more than are banned now. 

    are you calling for anti-depressants to be banned?
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    If you actually believe the over prescribed pharmaceutical industry hasn’t killed more people than guns then you might want to do a little studying.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,587
    unsung said:
    If you actually believe the over prescribed pharmaceutical industry hasn’t killed more people than guns then you might want to do a little studying.

    unsung said:
    So are you calling for a gun ban?
    I did some research and found out that 100% of people die. So why bother with gun control?
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,786
    unsung said:
    If you actually believe the over prescribed pharmaceutical industry hasn’t killed more people than guns then you might want to do a little studying.
    I'm plenty familiar with Rx in affects.  I am in the work comp insurance industry and my wife is a therapist.  We see the cost daily.

    Just trying to see the connection here.  Rx kills people, so we shouldn't regulate guns?  
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    And that isn’t what I said.  
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,821
    unsung said:
    If you actually believe the over prescribed pharmaceutical industry hasn’t killed more people than guns then you might want to do a little studying.
    "Pharmaceutical industry" does not equate to "antidepressants"
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Explain why prescribed antidepressants are not pharmaceuticals please.
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,786
    unsung said:
    Explain why prescribed antidepressants are not pharmaceuticals please.
    unsung said:
    If you actually believe the over prescribed pharmaceutical industry hasn’t killed more people than guns then you might want to do a little studying.

    Guns don't kill people, the NRA does!
    Am I doing it right?
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,473
    edited November 2017
    Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medication, and ADHA meds are actually an extremely common factor amongst mass shooters. I'm talking REALLY common. Like, the vast majority of mass shooters are on something or other in that category, or were at some point (the most compelling studies are the ones that explore the connection between ritalin use as a kid and violent tendencies as adolescents or adults - the Columbine massacre led researchers to explore this). However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the meds are the cause, obviously. Nobody has ever been able to prove that is the case. It simply proves that the vast majority mass shooters have some sort of mental health problem. And that isn't exactly a surprise (and of course that doesn't mean that everyone with mental illness is dangerous. 99% of people with mental illnesses are not violent - I'm sure everyone here knows that already. Also, of course, mental illness does not = insanity. Mental illness is no excuse for committing murder unless we're talking severe mental illnesses that involve delusion and shit).
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • CM189191 said:
    unsung said:
    Explain why prescribed antidepressants are not pharmaceuticals please.
    unsung said:
    If you actually believe the over prescribed pharmaceutical industry hasn’t killed more people than guns then you might want to do a little studying.

    Guns don't kill people, the NRA does!
    Am I doing it right?
    The proper statement would have been, "guns don't kill people, the gun industry does."
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN;

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  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    PJ_Soul said:
    Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medication, and ADHA meds are actually an extremely common factor amongst mass shooters. I'm talking REALLY common. Like, the vast majority of mass shooters are on something or other in that category, or were at some point (the most compelling studies are the ones that explore the connection between ritalin use as a kid and violent tendencies as adolescents or adults - the Columbine massacre led researchers to explore this). However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the meds are the cause, obviously. Nobody has ever been able to prove that is the case. It simply proves that the vast majority mass shooters have some sort of mental health problem. And that isn't exactly a surprise (and of course that doesn't mean that everyone with mental illness is dangerous. 99% of people with mental illnesses are not violent - I'm sure everyone here knows that already. Also, of course, mental illness does not = insanity. Mental illness is no excuse for committing murder unless we're talking severe mental illnesses that involve delusion and shit).
    For sure.

    Do you think that these types of medications are over prescribed?  

    I had had a family member stop taking them and almost immediately had an event.  I wonder how common that type of reaction is.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,473
    edited November 2017
    unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medication, and ADHA meds are actually an extremely common factor amongst mass shooters. I'm talking REALLY common. Like, the vast majority of mass shooters are on something or other in that category, or were at some point (the most compelling studies are the ones that explore the connection between ritalin use as a kid and violent tendencies as adolescents or adults - the Columbine massacre led researchers to explore this). However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the meds are the cause, obviously. Nobody has ever been able to prove that is the case. It simply proves that the vast majority mass shooters have some sort of mental health problem. And that isn't exactly a surprise (and of course that doesn't mean that everyone with mental illness is dangerous. 99% of people with mental illnesses are not violent - I'm sure everyone here knows that already. Also, of course, mental illness does not = insanity. Mental illness is no excuse for committing murder unless we're talking severe mental illnesses that involve delusion and shit).
    For sure.

    Do you think that these types of medications are over prescribed?  

    I had had a family member stop taking them and almost immediately had an event.  I wonder how common that type of reaction is.
    I am no expert, but I think that Ritalin and other ADHD drugs are overprescribed to children for sure. I also think ADHD is way over-diagnosed in children. I have read studies about the impact of those drugs on people's development. It's not good, and there does seem to be some link between those drugs and the violent acts of some who have taken them - the number of people who were on ritalin and then later committed a horrible violent crime definitely seems beyond coincidence.. there is the still the chicken and the egg argument to be had there of course.... But for adults with depression and anxiety? No, I don't really feel like antidepressants are generally overprescribed. I think most adults know when meds are something they need, and most are able to assess that the meds aren't doing the job too. However, I do think that doctors are not well equipped when it comes to trying to help their patients with depression or anxiety. I don't disagree with the drug prescriptions (nor with the trial and error process it often takes with such meds, nor with the decision to abandon the drugs if they aren't working the way the patient hoped), but I feel that doctors are not able to offer a well-rounded treatment, which should involve supplementary therapy. Meds alone are often not adequate - these people need support above and beyond the meds. Obviously this isn't happening for so many because the resources simply are not there for so many patients. So I think the issue for adults is not meds. The issue is the overriding lack of a well-rounded, easily accessible mental healthcare system. The government needs to do something drastic about that issue IMO.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,587
    unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medication, and ADHA meds are actually an extremely common factor amongst mass shooters. I'm talking REALLY common. Like, the vast majority of mass shooters are on something or other in that category, or were at some point (the most compelling studies are the ones that explore the connection between ritalin use as a kid and violent tendencies as adolescents or adults - the Columbine massacre led researchers to explore this). However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the meds are the cause, obviously. Nobody has ever been able to prove that is the case. It simply proves that the vast majority mass shooters have some sort of mental health problem. And that isn't exactly a surprise (and of course that doesn't mean that everyone with mental illness is dangerous. 99% of people with mental illnesses are not violent - I'm sure everyone here knows that already. Also, of course, mental illness does not = insanity. Mental illness is no excuse for committing murder unless we're talking severe mental illnesses that involve delusion and shit).
    For sure.

    Do you think that these types of medications are over prescribed?  

    I had had a family member stop taking them and almost immediately had an event.  I wonder how common that type of reaction is.
    Depends on the med and what the event was. Some are known to be hard for some people to come off of. 
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,821
    unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medication, and ADHA meds are actually an extremely common factor amongst mass shooters. I'm talking REALLY common. Like, the vast majority of mass shooters are on something or other in that category, or were at some point (the most compelling studies are the ones that explore the connection between ritalin use as a kid and violent tendencies as adolescents or adults - the Columbine massacre led researchers to explore this). However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the meds are the cause, obviously. Nobody has ever been able to prove that is the case. It simply proves that the vast majority mass shooters have some sort of mental health problem. And that isn't exactly a surprise (and of course that doesn't mean that everyone with mental illness is dangerous. 99% of people with mental illnesses are not violent - I'm sure everyone here knows that already. Also, of course, mental illness does not = insanity. Mental illness is no excuse for committing murder unless we're talking severe mental illnesses that involve delusion and shit).
    For sure.

    Do you think that these types of medications are over prescribed?  

    I had had a family member stop taking them and almost immediately had an event.  I wonder how common that type of reaction is.
    Many types of medications shouldn't be stopped abruptly, not just psychiatric medications. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,821
    edited November 2017

    PJ_Soul said:
    unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medication, and ADHA meds are actually an extremely common factor amongst mass shooters. I'm talking REALLY common. Like, the vast majority of mass shooters are on something or other in that category, or were at some point (the most compelling studies are the ones that explore the connection between ritalin use as a kid and violent tendencies as adolescents or adults - the Columbine massacre led researchers to explore this). However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the meds are the cause, obviously. Nobody has ever been able to prove that is the case. It simply proves that the vast majority mass shooters have some sort of mental health problem. And that isn't exactly a surprise (and of course that doesn't mean that everyone with mental illness is dangerous. 99% of people with mental illnesses are not violent - I'm sure everyone here knows that already. Also, of course, mental illness does not = insanity. Mental illness is no excuse for committing murder unless we're talking severe mental illnesses that involve delusion and shit).
    For sure.

    Do you think that these types of medications are over prescribed?  

    I had had a family member stop taking them and almost immediately had an event.  I wonder how common that type of reaction is.
    I am no expert, but I think that Ritalin and other ADHD drugs are overprescribed to children for sure. I also think ADHD is way over-diagnosed in children. I have read studies about the impact of those drugs on people's development. It's not good, and there does seem to be some link between those drugs and the violent acts of some who have taken them - the number of people who were on ritalin and then later committed a horrible violent crime definitely seems beyond coincidence.. there is the still the chicken and the egg argument to be had there of course.... But for adults with depression and anxiety? No, I don't really feel like antidepressants are generally overprescribed. I think most adults know when meds are something they need, and most are able to assess that the meds aren't doing the job too. However, I do think that doctors are not well equipped when it comes to trying to help their patients with depression or anxiety. I don't disagree with the drug prescriptions (nor with the trial and error process it often takes with such meds, nor with the decision to abandon the drugs if they aren't working the way the patient hoped), but I feel that doctors are not able to offer a well-rounded treatment, which should involve supplementary therapy. Meds alone are often not adequate - these people need support above and beyond the meds. Obviously this isn't happening for so many because the resources simply are not there for so many patients. So I think the issue for adults is not meds. The issue is the overriding lack of a well-rounded, easily accessible mental healthcare system. The government needs to do something drastic about that issue IMO.
    ADHD itself is highly correlated with both violent and non-violent criminal behaviour as well as drug abuse. Kids who are appropriately treated tend to have a better chance at not being criminally involved as teens and adults. Blaming the behaviour on treatment rather than the root condition  is just a misunderstanding of causation. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,956
    unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medication, and ADHA meds are actually an extremely common factor amongst mass shooters. I'm talking REALLY common. Like, the vast majority of mass shooters are on something or other in that category, or were at some point (the most compelling studies are the ones that explore the connection between ritalin use as a kid and violent tendencies as adolescents or adults - the Columbine massacre led researchers to explore this). However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the meds are the cause, obviously. Nobody has ever been able to prove that is the case. It simply proves that the vast majority mass shooters have some sort of mental health problem. And that isn't exactly a surprise (and of course that doesn't mean that everyone with mental illness is dangerous. 99% of people with mental illnesses are not violent - I'm sure everyone here knows that already. Also, of course, mental illness does not = insanity. Mental illness is no excuse for committing murder unless we're talking severe mental illnesses that involve delusion and shit).
    For sure.

    Do you think that these types of medications are over prescribed?  

    I had had a family member stop taking them and almost immediately had an event.  I wonder how common that type of reaction is.
    I thought it's pretty well accepted they are grossly over-prescribed.
    a kid is given mess when he's too lazy to do homework these days is, because no one wants to accept responsibility for the kid and/or label him lazy, so there must be some mental illness to explain his academic failure.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 8,587
    mace1229 said:
    unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medication, and ADHA meds are actually an extremely common factor amongst mass shooters. I'm talking REALLY common. Like, the vast majority of mass shooters are on something or other in that category, or were at some point (the most compelling studies are the ones that explore the connection between ritalin use as a kid and violent tendencies as adolescents or adults - the Columbine massacre led researchers to explore this). However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the meds are the cause, obviously. Nobody has ever been able to prove that is the case. It simply proves that the vast majority mass shooters have some sort of mental health problem. And that isn't exactly a surprise (and of course that doesn't mean that everyone with mental illness is dangerous. 99% of people with mental illnesses are not violent - I'm sure everyone here knows that already. Also, of course, mental illness does not = insanity. Mental illness is no excuse for committing murder unless we're talking severe mental illnesses that involve delusion and shit).
    For sure.

    Do you think that these types of medications are over prescribed?  

    I had had a family member stop taking them and almost immediately had an event.  I wonder how common that type of reaction is.
    I thought it's pretty well accepted they are grossly over-prescribed.
    a kid is given mess when he's too lazy to do homework these days is, because no one wants to accept responsibility for the kid and/or label him lazy, so there must be some mental illness to explain his academic failure.
    What meds are lazy kids prescribed?
  • SmellymanSmellyman Asia Posts: 4,517
    Did Tom Cruise join the thread?
  • Thoughts_ArriveThoughts_Arrive Melbourne, Australia Posts: 15,165

    PJ_Soul said:
    unsung said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medication, and ADHA meds are actually an extremely common factor amongst mass shooters. I'm talking REALLY common. Like, the vast majority of mass shooters are on something or other in that category, or were at some point (the most compelling studies are the ones that explore the connection between ritalin use as a kid and violent tendencies as adolescents or adults - the Columbine massacre led researchers to explore this). However, that doesn't necessarily mean that the meds are the cause, obviously. Nobody has ever been able to prove that is the case. It simply proves that the vast majority mass shooters have some sort of mental health problem. And that isn't exactly a surprise (and of course that doesn't mean that everyone with mental illness is dangerous. 99% of people with mental illnesses are not violent - I'm sure everyone here knows that already. Also, of course, mental illness does not = insanity. Mental illness is no excuse for committing murder unless we're talking severe mental illnesses that involve delusion and shit).
    For sure.

    Do you think that these types of medications are over prescribed?  

    I had had a family member stop taking them and almost immediately had an event.  I wonder how common that type of reaction is.
    I am no expert, but I think that Ritalin and other ADHD drugs are overprescribed to children for sure. I also think ADHD is way over-diagnosed in children. I have read studies about the impact of those drugs on people's development. It's not good, and there does seem to be some link between those drugs and the violent acts of some who have taken them - the number of people who were on ritalin and then later committed a horrible violent crime definitely seems beyond coincidence.. there is the still the chicken and the egg argument to be had there of course.... But for adults with depression and anxiety? No, I don't really feel like antidepressants are generally overprescribed. I think most adults know when meds are something they need, and most are able to assess that the meds aren't doing the job too. However, I do think that doctors are not well equipped when it comes to trying to help their patients with depression or anxiety. I don't disagree with the drug prescriptions (nor with the trial and error process it often takes with such meds, nor with the decision to abandon the drugs if they aren't working the way the patient hoped), but I feel that doctors are not able to offer a well-rounded treatment, which should involve supplementary therapy. Meds alone are often not adequate - these people need support above and beyond the meds. Obviously this isn't happening for so many because the resources simply are not there for so many patients. So I think the issue for adults is not meds. The issue is the overriding lack of a well-rounded, easily accessible mental healthcare system. The government needs to do something drastic about that issue IMO.
    ADHD itself is highly correlated with both violent and non-violent criminal behaviour as well as drug abuse. Kids who are appropriately treated tend to have a better chance at not being criminally involved as teens and adults. Blaming the behaviour on treatment rather than the root condition  is just a misunderstanding of causation. 
    Correct. Many with ADHD or conduct disorder as children that is not treated early go on to develop Antisocial Personality Disorder.
    Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,956
    Anything related to ADHD, like Ritalin. 
    I didn't even think it's disputed, pretty much that everyone agreed those drugs are over prescribed. 
    And lazy was just an example, a lot of underperforming kids get diagnosed and prescribed something when they don't know what else to do. Happened in my family, but not just from that experience, there's a lot of professionals who say it is over prescribed.
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