America's Gun Violence

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Comments

  • KC138045KC138045 Columbus, OH Posts: 2,715
    edited October 2017
    PJ_Soul said:
    KC138045 said:
    Its harder to adopt a dog in this country then to purchase a gun !
    Oh come on!  This is a ridiculous statement.
    No it isn't. In many states it is indeed easier to buy a gun than adopt a dog from the SPCA.
    Ok I stand corrected.  Just did a quick search and apparently there are several things that are harder to purchase than a gun.
    Columbus-2000
    Columbus-2003
    Cincinnati-2006
    Columbus-2010
    Wrigley-2013
    Cincinnati-2014
    Lexington-2016
    Wrigley 1 & 2-2018
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think the culture that leads to people wanting to own 20 guns is what we need to be concerned about, and the fact that each person who does it is perpetuating that culture and passing it along.
    yes, I have mentioned in a previous post, it's not as simple as legislation. it's mental health, it's the culture, lack of education/respect of firearms, it's a whole shitload of factors. 
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    PJ_Soul said:
    Lol, acquaintances who work for the forest service telling anecdotal stories is not a credible source either dude.
    http://www.wideopenspaces.com/animal-rights-groups-dishonestly-attempting-to-place-wolves-in-colorado/

  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    PJ_Soul said:
    I think the culture that leads to people wanting to own 20 guns is what we need to be concerned about, and the fact that each person who does it is perpetuating that culture and passing it along.
    yes, I have mentioned in a previous post, it's not as simple as legislation. it's mental health, it's the culture, lack of education/respect of firearms, it's a whole shitload of factors. 
    Agreed, a whole shitload of factors.
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    Something I've noticed in the last few pages of this thread is the misinformation that's floating around the side that likes to claim gun expertise and openly mock their opposition for not knowing the difference between a clip and magazine, and so on.

    Bump slides were illegal to purchase?  Legal to purchase but not legal to use?  A string can be used as a bump slide?
    Wrong.


    And now they are selling out at every gunship, because that's what gun nuts are, paranoid losers who love their boomsticks in unnatural ways.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,739
    edited October 2017
    The number of guns owned is irrelevant. You can only use one at a time. 
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 49,473
    edited October 2017
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Lol, acquaintances who work for the forest service telling anecdotal stories is not a credible source either dude.
    http://www.wideopenspaces.com/animal-rights-groups-dishonestly-attempting-to-place-wolves-in-colorado/

    As someone who just trashed PETA, I'm certainly not the one to spend time on trying to convince me that not all animal rights groups are awesome. However, I would like to point out that RMEF has no more credibility than TESF does in this case. They both have their own, very specific agendas. I mean, RMEF is advocating wolf culls while crying about other species being killed by other wild animals. Some groups think that "animal management" like the kind that RMEF advocates is actually the beginning of all the problems they claim to fight in the first place, and their real agenda is actually keeping up hunting stock. Meanwhile, TESF seems to both support and oppose animal management at the same time, although at least they aren't into killing wild animals for fun. There are MANY different perspectives and attitudes when it comes to how to deal with wildlife in a place where humans are the real parasites. It is a very grey issue that has to viewed from many different directions. However, HUNTING ADVOCATES are hardly the best source of information. Your link is essentially pro-hunting propaganda and rhetoric (which I'm sure TESF also employs in their own way), and while some things they say may be true, other things are definitely skewed and biased in support of their own agenda. It is very clear from this article that RMEF's main concern is that they don't want any natural competition. But you know, if they all just stopped killing the deer and elk and moose themselves, perhaps more wolves wouldn't be such an issue?
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    mcgruff10 said:
    The number of guns owned is irrelevant. You can only use one at a time. 
    This is exactly what I'm talking about.
    You are so entrenched in your position that you can't see the situation clearly, you just toss out the same old catch phrases without thinking of their truth or relevance.
    We all do it on some topics sometimes, but the gun situation is out of hand.

    The guy had 23 guns and they were probably all loaded before he started.
    That means he didn't have to carefully handle a barrel hot enough to remove his skin to reload, he didn't have to touch hot brass or bother reloading at all. No worries about jamming the slide, resetting the bipod, etc etc.
    If he had 1 gun, it's hard to imagine 500+ wounded before something stopped him.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,258
    KC138045 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    KC138045 said:
    Its harder to adopt a dog in this country then to purchase a gun !
    Oh come on!  This is a ridiculous statement.
    No it isn't. In many states it is indeed easier to buy a gun than adopt a dog from the SPCA.
    Ok I stand corrected.  Just did a quick search and apparently there are several things that are harder to purchase than a gun.
    lol damn insane no but hey its the 2nd admendment yeah we can't even begin to talk legislation on gun control 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,739
    I m not entrenched, I am very open minded. But I don't think government should dictate how many weapons you own.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,786
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not entrenched, I am very open minded. But I don't think government should dictate how many weapons you own.  
    why do you hate america?
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not entrenched, I am very open minded. But I don't think government should dictate how many weapons you own.  
    so how is that open minded if you've already made it up?
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not entrenched, I am very open minded. But I don't think government should dictate how many weapons you own.  
    Sounds like your mind is made up and no body count is going to change it.

    Is it because that's what you believe is better for your family and society, or because you can't bear the thought of losing your toys?

    And hey, listen, it's not my intent to pick on you.
    You are a rational and good guy, and if anyone can see the other side and why a switch might be necessary, it's you.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    PJPOWER said:
    brianlux said:
    PJPOWER said:
    brianlux said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm no hunter. I hate guns. I hate that my 9 year old son has guns and hunts with his step dad. Having said that, where I am in southern IL, deer hunting is quite important for over populating concerns. Do people use that as justification to hunt when they know nothing of what curbing the population really entails? Yes. But it's still important. So it serves a purpose in theory. So, while you don't agree with it Soul (like me), it's not as simple as just not liking how animals are killed. 
    I am aware of the culling theory... and I strongly disagree with it, just because that argument boils down to humans thinking they matter more than the wild animals in the area do. I don't give a shit if humans are inconvenienced because they have encroached upon the animals' habitat. I don't care if the deer snarl traffic (build more crossings for them) or eat everyone's vegetable gardens because they didn't fence it well enough. Yes, I am an avid wild animal welfare advocate, and I'm aware that my views might seem extreme to some, but that's fine with me. Besides, nature tends to take care of these things, if only people would give it the opportunity to. And even with dangerous wild animals in populated areas, I strongly disagree with killing them. I think every single effort should be made to relocate them, and if I have to pay more taxes for that to happen, I'm happy to do so. If the authorities could shoot a bear or cougar dead, then they could have shot it with a tranquilizer dart. No excuses work for me unless we're talking about a mauling/attack situation, literally (obviously all bets are off during animal attacks, and FWIW, I think if someone lives in an area where a bear or cougar (or whatever) attack is a valid concern, carrying a gun for protection is perfectly fine).
    But really, that isn't all that relevant to me at the end of the day, because these hunters who use culling as a justification to go sport hunting are still going out to kill for pleasure. Culling is just a convenient excuse to talk away the fact that they are murdering wild animals for fun. I think people who do that have a bit of a screw loose (and some a really big, really lose screw, like those fuckers who go to Africa and kill endangered species like the fucking Trump sons do - that is purely psychopathic IMO). Sorry hunters, but that's just how I feel.
    yeah, I've never understood the whole "controlling the (insert animal here) population" argument. nature, as you said, takes care of it on its own. always has. long before humans were here. humans need to stop fucking with nature as if we're the caretakers of the earth. we're not. 

    I think this is just another in a long list of weak arguments for gun ownership. 
    The problem is that humans have already changed the ecosystem by introducing invasive species/poor farming practices, cities, etc.  In many of the southern states, wild hogs (an invasive species that man introduced to the country) have cause millions upon millions of dollars of damage to agriculture and have destroyed the habitat for other animals as well.  Same with pythons in Florida.  If deer overpopulate, there is something called Chronic Wasting Disease that will wipe out entire populations of them.  Some invasive species will even overpopulate and bring diseases like the plague or rabies into domestic areas.  There are plenty arguments for wildlife population control that I have not mentioned here.  Myself, I am a hunter.  I usually harvest two deer a year and it feeds my family almost all year long.  I hunt wild hogs because they destroy my family’s farmland that is used to produce wheat, livestock feed.  If you are simply against farming and ranching, then do not even bother commenting because I will not respect you from the start...sorry.
    As far as the “three guns is all you need” comments...You obviously know nothing about hunting.  Different calibers are used for different animals.  Who are you to decide what someone else needs to protect their home/land or feed their family?  Animal rights activists are often the ones responsible for fucking the environment by releasing wolves into areas that they do not belong, invasive species of fish into lakes, etc.  I would say that hunters have actually contributed to the environment way more than your average PETA supporter, if by nothing else purchasing hunting licenses which funds go towards habitat restoration efforts.  Get off your high horse...
    Wrong.  Don't talk about things of which you have little or no knowledge. 
    Oh I have plenty of knowledge in this area and that portion of my comment is most definitely correct.  They are the same ones that try to load deer into their cars in Yellowstone to “save them”.  I have several aquantances in the forest service that have stayed what I just did.
    Forest service.   Ahhh, right...
    You’re right, I should believe some eccentric on the AMT forums.  Much more credible sources here...
    We could get into a pissing contest by me putting up my close relations in high places in the USFS against your "acquaintances"  but this is much more fun:

    "...some eccentric on the AMT forums".  :rofl:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    edited October 2017
    a hunter would use a shotgun for bird hunting, deer & small game. in iowa a hunter could not deer hunt with a high powered rifle until maybe 10 years ago or so & for only one week in january. shotgun pellets do not travel far at all which is good from a safety view. a shotgun slug is not pellets so a hunter would have a slug in the gun's chamber for deer hunting. a hunter does not goose or duck hunt with a high powered rifle because the round is not pellets spreading out in a pattern the bird flies into (leading the bird). shooting a .30-06, .223, or even the small but extremely fast & very popular .22 round travel great distances. a hunter taking air shots at birds is one stupid son of a bitch & any safe hunter knows this fact when he or she is a youngster        
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,739
    rgambs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not entrenched, I am very open minded. But I don't think government should dictate how many weapons you own.  
    Sounds like your mind is made up and no body count is going to change it.

    Is it because that's what you believe is better for your family and society, or because you can't bear the thought of losing your toys?

    And hey, listen, it's not my intent to pick on you.
    You are a rational and good guy, and if anyone can see the other side and why a switch might be necessary, it's you.
    My mind is made up on that but I m all for criminal/mental background checks for each purchase, registration for each firearm purchased, and some sort of safety course before your first firearm purchase. 
    Damn I used the word purchase a lot lol. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,739
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not entrenched, I am very open minded. But I don't think government should dictate how many weapons you own.  
    why do you hate america?

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    mcgruff10 said:
    rgambs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not entrenched, I am very open minded. But I don't think government should dictate how many weapons you own.  
    Sounds like your mind is made up and no body count is going to change it.

    Is it because that's what you believe is better for your family and society, or because you can't bear the thought of losing your toys?

    And hey, listen, it's not my intent to pick on you.
    You are a rational and good guy, and if anyone can see the other side and why a switch might be necessary, it's you.
    My mind is made up on that but I m all for criminal/mental background checks for each purchase, registration for each firearm purchased, and some sort of safety course before your first firearm purchase. 
    Damn I used the word purchase a lot lol. 
    Registration is the big one, whenever someone agrees to a registry I feel like the battle is half won.
    It would all start there.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 35,808
    what does registry do? I know in Canada it was scrapped after millions and millions of dollars were spent on it. I mean, isn't it kind of moot now with how many billions of unregistered guns already in the country?
    Darwinspeed, all. 

    Cheers,

    HFD




  • rgambs said:
    Something I've noticed in the last few pages of this thread is the misinformation that's floating around the side that likes to claim gun expertise and openly mock their opposition for not knowing the difference between a clip and magazine, and so on.

    Bump slides were illegal to purchase?  Legal to purchase but not legal to use?  A string can be used as a bump slide?
    Wrong.


    And now they are selling out at every gunship, because that's what gun nuts are, paranoid losers who love their boomsticks in unnatural ways.
    I'll be the first to say I was wrong about this product.

    I didn't know that it was sold OR that it was legal to use.
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    yes turkey hunting has a gun & a bow season. still that gun would not be a high powered rifle, it's a shotgun & not one with slugs in it. now there's a smart & tough bird. i've never shot a turkey but I have nearly stepped on a few turkeys, same with quail, these birds quite often hold tight until they're walked on. then again it all changes when the hunter uses a bird dog, then it's a dog nearly stepping on the pheasant or quail. never heard of a turkey hunting dog   
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 27,739
    edited October 2017
    rgambs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    rgambs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not entrenched, I am very open minded. But I don't think government should dictate how many weapons you own.  
    Sounds like your mind is made up and no body count is going to change it.

    Is it because that's what you believe is better for your family and society, or because you can't bear the thought of losing your toys?

    And hey, listen, it's not my intent to pick on you.
    You are a rational and good guy, and if anyone can see the other side and why a switch might be necessary, it's you.
    My mind is made up on that but I m all for criminal/mental background checks for each purchase, registration for each firearm purchased, and some sort of safety course before your first firearm purchase. 
    Damn I used the word purchase a lot lol. 
    Registration is the big one, whenever someone agrees to a registry I feel like the battle is half won.
    It would all start there.
    We have registration here in New Jersey and it works. A national one would help a lot since most of the guns used here illegally come from out of state. 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10 said:
    rgambs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    rgambs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not entrenched, I am very open minded. But I don't think government should dictate how many weapons you own.  
    Sounds like your mind is made up and no body count is going to change it.

    Is it because that's what you believe is better for your family and society, or because you can't bear the thought of losing your toys?

    And hey, listen, it's not my intent to pick on you.
    You are a rational and good guy, and if anyone can see the other side and why a switch might be necessary, it's you.
    My mind is made up on that but I m all for criminal/mental background checks for each purchase, registration for each firearm purchased, and some sort of safety course before your first firearm purchase. 
    Damn I used the word purchase a lot lol. 
    Registration is the big one, whenever someone agrees to a registry I feel like the battle is half won.
    It would all start there.
    We have registration here in New Jersey and it works. A national one would help a lot since most of the guns used here illegally come from out of state. 
    I am not a fan of person to person sales and registration.

    New weapons I understand.
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo Face Posts: 6,499
    brianlux said:
    PJPOWER said:
    brianlux said:
    PJPOWER said:
    brianlux said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm no hunter. I hate guns. I hate that my 9 year old son has guns and hunts with his step dad. Having said that, where I am in southern IL, deer hunting is quite important for over populating concerns. Do people use that as justification to hunt when they know nothing of what curbing the population really entails? Yes. But it's still important. So it serves a purpose in theory. So, while you don't agree with it Soul (like me), it's not as simple as just not liking how animals are killed. 
    I am aware of the culling theory... and I strongly disagree with it, just because that argument boils down to humans thinking they matter more than the wild animals in the area do. I don't give a shit if humans are inconvenienced because they have encroached upon the animals' habitat. I don't care if the deer snarl traffic (build more crossings for them) or eat everyone's vegetable gardens because they didn't fence it well enough. Yes, I am an avid wild animal welfare advocate, and I'm aware that my views might seem extreme to some, but that's fine with me. Besides, nature tends to take care of these things, if only people would give it the opportunity to. And even with dangerous wild animals in populated areas, I strongly disagree with killing them. I think every single effort should be made to relocate them, and if I have to pay more taxes for that to happen, I'm happy to do so. If the authorities could shoot a bear or cougar dead, then they could have shot it with a tranquilizer dart. No excuses work for me unless we're talking about a mauling/attack situation, literally (obviously all bets are off during animal attacks, and FWIW, I think if someone lives in an area where a bear or cougar (or whatever) attack is a valid concern, carrying a gun for protection is perfectly fine).
    But really, that isn't all that relevant to me at the end of the day, because these hunters who use culling as a justification to go sport hunting are still going out to kill for pleasure. Culling is just a convenient excuse to talk away the fact that they are murdering wild animals for fun. I think people who do that have a bit of a screw loose (and some a really big, really lose screw, like those fuckers who go to Africa and kill endangered species like the fucking Trump sons do - that is purely psychopathic IMO). Sorry hunters, but that's just how I feel.
    yeah, I've never understood the whole "controlling the (insert animal here) population" argument. nature, as you said, takes care of it on its own. always has. long before humans were here. humans need to stop fucking with nature as if we're the caretakers of the earth. we're not. 

    I think this is just another in a long list of weak arguments for gun ownership. 
    The problem is that humans have already changed the ecosystem by introducing invasive species/poor farming practices, cities, etc.  In many of the southern states, wild hogs (an invasive species that man introduced to the country) have cause millions upon millions of dollars of damage to agriculture and have destroyed the habitat for other animals as well.  Same with pythons in Florida.  If deer overpopulate, there is something called Chronic Wasting Disease that will wipe out entire populations of them.  Some invasive species will even overpopulate and bring diseases like the plague or rabies into domestic areas.  There are plenty arguments for wildlife population control that I have not mentioned here.  Myself, I am a hunter.  I usually harvest two deer a year and it feeds my family almost all year long.  I hunt wild hogs because they destroy my family’s farmland that is used to produce wheat, livestock feed.  If you are simply against farming and ranching, then do not even bother commenting because I will not respect you from the start...sorry.
    As far as the “three guns is all you need” comments...You obviously know nothing about hunting.  Different calibers are used for different animals.  Who are you to decide what someone else needs to protect their home/land or feed their family?  Animal rights activists are often the ones responsible for fucking the environment by releasing wolves into areas that they do not belong, invasive species of fish into lakes, etc.  I would say that hunters have actually contributed to the environment way more than your average PETA supporter, if by nothing else purchasing hunting licenses which funds go towards habitat restoration efforts.  Get off your high horse...
    Wrong.  Don't talk about things of which you have little or no knowledge. 
    Oh I have plenty of knowledge in this area and that portion of my comment is most definitely correct.  They are the same ones that try to load deer into their cars in Yellowstone to “save them”.  I have several aquantances in the forest service that have stayed what I just did.
    Forest service.   Ahhh, right...
    You’re right, I should believe some eccentric on the AMT forums.  Much more credible sources here...
    We could get into a pissing contest by me putting up my close relations in high places in the USFS against your "acquaintances"  but this is much more fun:

    "...some eccentric on the AMT forums".  :rofl:
    Yeah, you just seem like a troll actually...I think the best course of action is probably going to be to just ignore you and move on.  Thank you for your well thought out and literate responses, though, I’m sure someone else will give them the time of day...
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,592
    mcgruff10 said:
    rgambs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    I m not entrenched, I am very open minded. But I don't think government should dictate how many weapons you own.  
    Sounds like your mind is made up and no body count is going to change it.

    Is it because that's what you believe is better for your family and society, or because you can't bear the thought of losing your toys?

    And hey, listen, it's not my intent to pick on you.
    You are a rational and good guy, and if anyone can see the other side and why a switch might be necessary, it's you.
    My mind is made up on that but I m all for criminal/mental background checks for each purchase, registration for each firearm purchased, and some sort of safety course before your first firearm purchase. 
    Damn I used the word purchase a lot lol. 
    Too bad about your love of hunting (my mind is made ups as well) but I'm glad we agree on background checks.  I forget the exact numbers (it's in the Kimmel video I posted) but something like 88% of Reps and Dems support such checks.  The exception are all those in congress who took money from the NRA and then tweeted "thoughts and prayers".

    I can't find the original link I saw but this is close enough:

    https://splinternews.com/every-member-of-congress-who-took-money-from-the-nra-an-1819059582

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 8,956
    PJ_Soul said:
    KC138045 said:
    Its harder to adopt a dog in this country then to purchase a gun !
    Oh come on!  This is a ridiculous statement.
    No it isn't. In many states it is indeed easier to buy a gun than adopt a dog from the SPCA.
    I think it says as much about why the heck is it so hard to adopt a dog as it does about guns.
    Its only true in some states, not true in California.
    But I was shocked at hoe hard it was to adopt a dog from a shelter that was going to be put down. We in fact were initially denied because we both worked, but was eventually approved because my wife lives 1/2 from work and came home for work every day. Then there was about $400 in required training and paperwork needed to adopt.
    ridiculous
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,786
    what does registry do? I know in Canada it was scrapped after millions and millions of dollars were spent on it. I mean, isn't it kind of moot now with how many billions of unregistered guns already in the country?
    gun buy back programs have worked
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020 AT 07/07/2020
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    PJPOWER said:
    brianlux said:
    PJPOWER said:
    brianlux said:
    PJPOWER said:
    brianlux said:
    PJPOWER said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I'm no hunter. I hate guns. I hate that my 9 year old son has guns and hunts with his step dad. Having said that, where I am in southern IL, deer hunting is quite important for over populating concerns. Do people use that as justification to hunt when they know nothing of what curbing the population really entails? Yes. But it's still important. So it serves a purpose in theory. So, while you don't agree with it Soul (like me), it's not as simple as just not liking how animals are killed. 
    I am aware of the culling theory... and I strongly disagree with it, just because that argument boils down to humans thinking they matter more than the wild animals in the area do. I don't give a shit if humans are inconvenienced because they have encroached upon the animals' habitat. I don't care if the deer snarl traffic (build more crossings for them) or eat everyone's vegetable gardens because they didn't fence it well enough. Yes, I am an avid wild animal welfare advocate, and I'm aware that my views might seem extreme to some, but that's fine with me. Besides, nature tends to take care of these things, if only people would give it the opportunity to. And even with dangerous wild animals in populated areas, I strongly disagree with killing them. I think every single effort should be made to relocate them, and if I have to pay more taxes for that to happen, I'm happy to do so. If the authorities could shoot a bear or cougar dead, then they could have shot it with a tranquilizer dart. No excuses work for me unless we're talking about a mauling/attack situation, literally (obviously all bets are off during animal attacks, and FWIW, I think if someone lives in an area where a bear or cougar (or whatever) attack is a valid concern, carrying a gun for protection is perfectly fine).
    But really, that isn't all that relevant to me at the end of the day, because these hunters who use culling as a justification to go sport hunting are still going out to kill for pleasure. Culling is just a convenient excuse to talk away the fact that they are murdering wild animals for fun. I think people who do that have a bit of a screw loose (and some a really big, really lose screw, like those fuckers who go to Africa and kill endangered species like the fucking Trump sons do - that is purely psychopathic IMO). Sorry hunters, but that's just how I feel.
    yeah, I've never understood the whole "controlling the (insert animal here) population" argument. nature, as you said, takes care of it on its own. always has. long before humans were here. humans need to stop fucking with nature as if we're the caretakers of the earth. we're not. 

    I think this is just another in a long list of weak arguments for gun ownership. 
    The problem is that humans have already changed the ecosystem by introducing invasive species/poor farming practices, cities, etc.  In many of the southern states, wild hogs (an invasive species that man introduced to the country) have cause millions upon millions of dollars of damage to agriculture and have destroyed the habitat for other animals as well.  Same with pythons in Florida.  If deer overpopulate, there is something called Chronic Wasting Disease that will wipe out entire populations of them.  Some invasive species will even overpopulate and bring diseases like the plague or rabies into domestic areas.  There are plenty arguments for wildlife population control that I have not mentioned here.  Myself, I am a hunter.  I usually harvest two deer a year and it feeds my family almost all year long.  I hunt wild hogs because they destroy my family’s farmland that is used to produce wheat, livestock feed.  If you are simply against farming and ranching, then do not even bother commenting because I will not respect you from the start...sorry.
    As far as the “three guns is all you need” comments...You obviously know nothing about hunting.  Different calibers are used for different animals.  Who are you to decide what someone else needs to protect their home/land or feed their family?  Animal rights activists are often the ones responsible for fucking the environment by releasing wolves into areas that they do not belong, invasive species of fish into lakes, etc.  I would say that hunters have actually contributed to the environment way more than your average PETA supporter, if by nothing else purchasing hunting licenses which funds go towards habitat restoration efforts.  Get off your high horse...
    Wrong.  Don't talk about things of which you have little or no knowledge. 
    Oh I have plenty of knowledge in this area and that portion of my comment is most definitely correct.  They are the same ones that try to load deer into their cars in Yellowstone to “save them”.  I have several aquantances in the forest service that have stayed what I just did.
    Forest service.   Ahhh, right...
    You’re right, I should believe some eccentric on the AMT forums.  Much more credible sources here...
    We could get into a pissing contest by me putting up my close relations in high places in the USFS against your "acquaintances"  but this is much more fun:

    "...some eccentric on the AMT forums".  :rofl:
    Yeah, you just seem like a troll actually...I think the best course of action is probably going to be to just ignore you and move on.  Thank you for your well thought out and literate responses, though, I’m sure someone else will give them the time of day...
    Hahaha congratulations, you have just insulted one of the wisest and most widely respected members here lol
    Classy move!
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • chadwickchadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    edited October 2017

    something else that bugs me is that it's ok to fish, kill the fish, clean the fish, cook the fish & eat it. the fisherman/fisherwoman get no static for killing the fish. but if that same person went out & shot a deer to help feed their family, save $$$ by spending less at the grocery store & eating healthy, this hunter would be a scumbag.


    & by the way, i haven't hunted in over 20 years & i do not own a gun.

    Post edited by chadwick on
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."

    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Your Mom's Posts: 17,936
    Joe Scarborough made a good (although extremely obvious) point this morning.  All of these couch GI Joes that get hard ons for guns always yap about how the 2nd amendment is supposed to allow citizens to protect themselves from government tyranny.

    Yet, the moment they would use their gun against the government they would be taking up arms against the United States and against our brave military.  The very military that they shit their panties over when the NFL guys kneeled.
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
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    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
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