Today, Senate Republicans moved one step closer to dismantling Obamacare, potentially leaving millions of people uninsured, jacking up their premiums, and letting insurance companies cover only what they feel like covering. John McCain voted for that bill because of course he did. He has always been a big talker, but when it comes to the actual meat-and-potatoes voting process, he falls in line. He didn’t do the right thing. He didn’t even come within 500 yards of doing the right thing. For the past two decades, he has never done the right thing. He’s a fraud. Alex Pareene had him nailed ages ago. In fact, it’s “nice” Republicans like McCain who provide cover for evil swine like Mitch McConnell, allowing them to gut the American security net and fuck over anyone who doesn’t live behind an iron gate.
But that didn’t stop McCain from having the gall—the unmitigated, repulsive GALL—to stand up in front of the Senate today and put on his Maverick jammies and deliver a sermon bashing the very non-legislation that, only minutes earlier, he had flown cross-country to help will into being:
They didn't vote on the bill. They voted on moving forward to debate both bills (the House version and Senate version) and to open the floor to other amendments and changes to put into those bills from both sides. The AHCA is still in effect. Nobody lost their health insurance last night. Will they come up with something better? I don't know. My guess is, nothing gets voted on and Obamacare will still be here the beginning of next year.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,661
They didn't vote on the bill. They voted on moving forward to debate both bills (the House version and Senate version) and to open the floor to other amendments and changes to put into those bills from both sides. The AHCA is still in effect. Nobody lost their health insurance last night. Will they come up with something better? I don't know. My guess is, nothing gets voted on and Obamacare will still be here the beginning of next year.
while I usually disagree with McCain, what he did yesterday was smart. at the same time he voted to move forward with debating the bills, he also ripped into the bill and actually said that he would vote no to the current bill.
personally, i think the AHCA is going to be around a very long time unless the R get more of a majority in both house and senate so hopefully, liberal come out in masses to vote.
What I'm finding weird is how the media is declaring this a "big win" for Trump.... I'm assuming that means anything short of total failure or disaster is a big win for him?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
What I'm finding weird is how the media is declaring this a "big win" for Trump.... I'm assuming that means anything short of total failure or disaster is a big win for him?
well it is the 1st time he has gotten what he wanted so right there it is win for him. I wonder how long it will take him to throw thi sunder the bus like the house bill.
What I'm finding weird is how the media is declaring this a "big win" for Trump.... I'm assuming that means anything short of total failure or disaster is a big win for him?
They didn't vote on the bill. They voted on moving forward to debate both bills (the House version and Senate version) and to open the floor to other amendments and changes to put into those bills from both sides. The AHCA is still in effect. Nobody lost their health insurance last night. Will they come up with something better? I don't know. My guess is, nothing gets voted on and Obamacare will still be here the beginning of next year.
while I usually disagree with McCain, what he did yesterday was smart. at the same time he voted to move forward with debating the bills, he also ripped into the bill and actually said that he would vote no to the current bill.
personally, i think the AHCA is going to be around a very long time unless the R get more of a majority in both house and senate so hopefully, liberal come out in masses to vote.
It might be around for a while. But it can't stay in it's current format. With so many insurers pulling out of the exchanges, eventually there will be none left for people to actually buy insurance from. They have to find a way to take the good parts of the AHCA and make the bad parts workable
They didn't vote on the bill. They voted on moving forward to debate both bills (the House version and Senate version) and to open the floor to other amendments and changes to put into those bills from both sides. The AHCA is still in effect. Nobody lost their health insurance last night. Will they come up with something better? I don't know. My guess is, nothing gets voted on and Obamacare will still be here the beginning of next year.
while I usually disagree with McCain, what he did yesterday was smart. at the same time he voted to move forward with debating the bills, he also ripped into the bill and actually said that he would vote no to the current bill.
personally, i think the AHCA is going to be around a very long time unless the R get more of a majority in both house and senate so hopefully, liberal come out in masses to vote.
It might be around for a while. But it can't stay in it's current format. With so many insurers pulling out of the exchanges, eventually there will be none left for people to actually buy insurance from. They have to find a way to take the good parts of the AHCA and make the bad parts workable
I don't think the democrats never wanted or cared if Obamacare would work longterm. They got exactly what they wanted....even if all insurers pull out and it fails miserably. They got it in place, people to get use to it, and now every time someone wants to talk about health care reform, the top line is ALWAYS about how many people will be left off. It was a brilliant thing to do. If the republicans had been smart, they would have done something long ago...then the narrative whenever the Dems wanted to change it would be..."Dems adding 10 million to Health Care but at a cost of $99 gazzilian"... Dems won the Health Care battle for sure, and I dont see the repubs getting back in the game really.
They didn't vote on the bill. They voted on moving forward to debate both bills (the House version and Senate version) and to open the floor to other amendments and changes to put into those bills from both sides. The AHCA is still in effect. Nobody lost their health insurance last night. Will they come up with something better? I don't know. My guess is, nothing gets voted on and Obamacare will still be here the beginning of next year.
while I usually disagree with McCain, what he did yesterday was smart. at the same time he voted to move forward with debating the bills, he also ripped into the bill and actually said that he would vote no to the current bill.
personally, i think the AHCA is going to be around a very long time unless the R get more of a majority in both house and senate so hopefully, liberal come out in masses to vote.
It might be around for a while. But it can't stay in it's current format. With so many insurers pulling out of the exchanges, eventually there will be none left for people to actually buy insurance from. They have to find a way to take the good parts of the AHCA and make the bad parts workable
I don't think the democrats never wanted or cared if Obamacare would work longterm. They got exactly what they wanted....even if all insurers pull out and it fails miserably. They got it in place, people to get use to it, and now every time someone wants to talk about health care reform, the top line is ALWAYS about how many people will be left off. It was a brilliant thing to do. If the republicans had been smart, they would have done something long ago...then the narrative whenever the Dems wanted to change it would be..."Dems adding 10 million to Health Care but at a cost of $99 gazzilian"... Dems won the Health Care battle for sure, and I dont see the repubs getting back in the game really.
I agree somewhat with you on this however, i think the democrats wanted this to be the first step in healthcare so that the American public would get used to a health care system that had government involvement so that they could go further when they proceeded to a more single payer system. the biggest issue with the AHCA was that they believed that they would be in power longer than they were and they didn't go far enough. where I disagree with you on is the idea that the R. lost the health care battle. i don't think that is the case as the democrats are still playing in the same terms that the R established.
They didn't vote on the bill. They voted on moving forward to debate both bills (the House version and Senate version) and to open the floor to other amendments and changes to put into those bills from both sides. The AHCA is still in effect. Nobody lost their health insurance last night. Will they come up with something better? I don't know. My guess is, nothing gets voted on and Obamacare will still be here the beginning of next year.
while I usually disagree with McCain, what he did yesterday was smart. at the same time he voted to move forward with debating the bills, he also ripped into the bill and actually said that he would vote no to the current bill.
personally, i think the AHCA is going to be around a very long time unless the R get more of a majority in both house and senate so hopefully, liberal come out in masses to vote.
It might be around for a while. But it can't stay in it's current format. With so many insurers pulling out of the exchanges, eventually there will be none left for people to actually buy insurance from. They have to find a way to take the good parts of the AHCA and make the bad parts workable
I don't think the democrats never wanted or cared if Obamacare would work longterm. They got exactly what they wanted....even if all insurers pull out and it fails miserably. They got it in place, people to get use to it, and now every time someone wants to talk about health care reform, the top line is ALWAYS about how many people will be left off. It was a brilliant thing to do. If the republicans had been smart, they would have done something long ago...then the narrative whenever the Dems wanted to change it would be..."Dems adding 10 million to Health Care but at a cost of $99 gazzilian"... Dems won the Health Care battle for sure, and I dont see the repubs getting back in the game really.
I think you're right, Cincy. I was a critic of Obamacare. The only measures of success seemed to be number of enrollments and acceptance of pre-existing conditions. The failures (no long term sustainability, limited choice - opposite of "if you like your current plan, keep it!", crazy premium and deductible increases, insurers pulling out of states, compulsory/mandatory and fines/taxes levied, etc...) didn't seem to get as much attention. So you are correct. The toothpaste has been squeezed out of the tube and you can't just put it back in. Any new plan will have to retain those positives of Obamacare - number of insureds, pre-existing conditions covered, raised age for dependents being allowed on parents' plans, etc..., while at the same time fixing the bad. But at this point I don't believe that is even possible within the current framework. I don't believe we can ever get to a point where we have a sustainable, private market for insurance that covers everyone and does so in an affordable way. So perhaps one of the biggest future legacies of Obamacare is that it paved the way for a serious discussion and consideration of single-payer.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
One of the things I liked with ACA was that it moved us closer to a single-payer system with the "all in" requirement. Previously, the individual could be blamed for not having decent insurance, now the failures of the free market being applied to healthcare is being highlighted even more. The ineptness of Republicans right now is making the move to single payer even quicker.
They didn't vote on the bill. They voted on moving forward to debate both bills (the House version and Senate version) and to open the floor to other amendments and changes to put into those bills from both sides. The AHCA is still in effect. Nobody lost their health insurance last night. Will they come up with something better? I don't know. My guess is, nothing gets voted on and Obamacare will still be here the beginning of next year.
while I usually disagree with McCain, what he did yesterday was smart. at the same time he voted to move forward with debating the bills, he also ripped into the bill and actually said that he would vote no to the current bill.
personally, i think the AHCA is going to be around a very long time unless the R get more of a majority in both house and senate so hopefully, liberal come out in masses to vote.
Yup. McCain was one of the 7 GOP Senators who voted no on the current repeal and replace bill. So nothing hypocritical about his speech on the floor, his yes vote to move the debates forward, or his no vote on the actual bill. Whether he'll stick to his guns long term is still up for debate, but at least this time he put his vote where his mouth is and didn't cave. I liked McCain's yes vote to move forward with the debate on the floor. Otherwise those sneaky bastards would just go back behind closed doors. Keep them out in the open and on record.
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
They didn't vote on the bill. They voted on moving forward to debate both bills (the House version and Senate version) and to open the floor to other amendments and changes to put into those bills from both sides. The AHCA is still in effect. Nobody lost their health insurance last night. Will they come up with something better? I don't know. My guess is, nothing gets voted on and Obamacare will still be here the beginning of next year.
while I usually disagree with McCain, what he did yesterday was smart. at the same time he voted to move forward with debating the bills, he also ripped into the bill and actually said that he would vote no to the current bill.
personally, i think the AHCA is going to be around a very long time unless the R get more of a majority in both house and senate so hopefully, liberal come out in masses to vote.
It might be around for a while. But it can't stay in it's current format. With so many insurers pulling out of the exchanges, eventually there will be none left for people to actually buy insurance from. They have to find a way to take the good parts of the AHCA and make the bad parts workable
I don't think the democrats never wanted or cared if Obamacare would work longterm. They got exactly what they wanted....even if all insurers pull out and it fails miserably. They got it in place, people to get use to it, and now every time someone wants to talk about health care reform, the top line is ALWAYS about how many people will be left off. It was a brilliant thing to do. If the republicans had been smart, they would have done something long ago...then the narrative whenever the Dems wanted to change it would be..."Dems adding 10 million to Health Care but at a cost of $99 gazzilian"... Dems won the Health Care battle for sure, and I dont see the repubs getting back in the game really.
I don't think the democrats never wanted or cared if Obamacare would work longterm. They got exactly what they wanted....even if all insurers pull out and it fails miserably. They got it in place, people to get use to it, and now every time someone wants to talk about health care reform, the top line is ALWAYS about how many people will be left off. It was a brilliant thing to do. If the republicans had been smart, they would have done something long ago...then the narrative whenever the Dems wanted to change it would be..."Dems adding 10 million to Health Care but at a cost of $99 gazzilian"... Dems won the Health Care battle for sure, and I dont see the repubs getting back in the game really.
I disagree with the first bolded part. Obama ran on it and seeing the disarray his election victory wreaked on the republicans, as they were sure Hillary was going to be the nominee, their game plan to oppose was out the window and they had no response, he went for it right out of the gate. The republicans were knocked back on their heels. Rather than participate in the formulation of the legislation, as Obama offered, they preferred to, "our number one job is to see this (black) president fail." The insurance companies and health care industries were offered the opportunity to participate in the formulation of the legislation and instead, followed McConnell's and Boehner's lead. That was their colossal mistake (Obama spent a year and a half soliciting input, made it a priority for his Administration. It wasn't a half baked, unthought known). They could have at least have acted like they had input before opposing the bill. Instead, they sour graped and didn't want the dems to have a "victory." It shouldn't have been a surprise as they did the same thing to President Clinton with his first budget, passed without one republican vote. Has anyone noticed how Romneycare is working exceptionally well in Massachusetts? If the republicans had been smart, they would have been part of the solution, tweaked it along the way and taken credit for it. 42MM uninsured in the alleged "greatest nation on earth" is and was wholly unacceptable. Its time the republicans got serious, told Trump to get lost and do what's right. Will they? No, of course not. But just wait until those Trump supporters lose their health insurance and get screwed over. The best bills, legislation and solutions generally come from bi-partisan cooperation and compromise. Mitch and John refused to play along. Thank them for the shit we're in today.
I will never understand why any Americans stand against universal healthcare, given all the examples from other countries that they could model such a system after so that it suits America in particular, and given how it would prevent people from losing their shirts just because they get sick, and make it so people can go see doctors when they don't have any cash or credit. Are these pro-private-health-insurance people brainwashed or what? How can any right-minded human being be in favour of a system that allows private companies to profit from restricting coverage??? It just makes no sense to me.
They don't like it because they don't trust anything government run, and with somewhat good reason. Everything run by government is so innefecient. They picture the Dr office running like the DMV. My brother just had back surgery last month. It has been an 18-month battle of constant pain for him because it was a worker's comp issue (state-run worker's comp). his back doctor immediately said what needed to be done, but the state threw 18 months of delays and needless, cheaper procedures in his way. The state law allows 10 days to respond, but on multiple occasions it was over 90 days before recieving a response. The MO is to just deny everything and wait for you to appeal, stalling as much as they can along the way. Shortly into this process he had to hire an attorney to send threatening letters because they were violating the law at every turn, but didn't really help. The only thing it's going to help is a financial lawsuit for compensation after he's done. But even after the surgery he was supposed to get in home nurse/therapy visits twice a week. No home visits were made for over 2 months. Had this not had to go through workers comp, his surgery would have been within about 4-6 weeks of his accident. Instead he was bedridden and in constant pain for 18 months and his recovery is in jeopardy because everything has to go through the state. It breaks my heart because he has 4 kids from 1 year to 14 yrs, and he will have missed out on 2 years of their life all because some people working for the government don't want to do their job (or they see their primary job as saving money and not helping people). Now I know that has nothing to do with Obamacare, but it is examples like that that make many think people will literally die waiting for care if the government is in charge. The VA is another example where veterans did die awaiting care, and that is just government doing a small scale healthcare. i for one think it could be done, and for a lot less than the current plans. But because of cases like this I know the fears are legitimate, and if it isn't put together correctly and run properly it would be just as bad as the VA or working with worker's comp.
Put a nail on Repeal/replace debacle GOP fails again fuck Ryan & McConell ..
I agree. Those two have been steadfast in standing in opposition to their party and trying to do the right thing for their constituents. And both have been threatened by fat, white Republicans from the south. What is it with these doughy hillbillies that they feel the need to challenge these strong northern women? Is it still a mason-dixon line thing? Or a bible-belt thing? Blake Farenthold threatens Collins with a duel. Buddy Carter wants to snatch a knot in their ass (whatever the fuck that hillbilly colloquialism translates to in English).
"I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
I agree. Those two have been steadfast in standing in opposition to their party and trying to do the right thing for their constituents. And both have been threatened by fat, white Republicans from the south. What is it with these doughy hillbillies that they feel the need to challenge these strong northern women? Is it still a mason-dixon line thing? Or a bible-belt thing? Blake Farenthold threatens Collins with a duel. Buddy Carter wants to snatch a knot in their ass (whatever the fuck that hillbilly colloquialism translates to in English).
Like Trump, they believe women shouldn't be in positions of power or challenge their white male authority and that their true and sole purpose is for their pleasure and procreation. The only thing more alarming to them than a black president is a female president.
Comments
is there a bigger fraud in American politics?
John McCain Is the Perfect American Lie
Today, Senate Republicans moved one step closer to dismantling Obamacare, potentially leaving millions of people uninsured, jacking up their premiums, and letting insurance companies cover only what they feel like covering. John McCain voted for that bill because of course he did. He has always been a big talker, but when it comes to the actual meat-and-potatoes voting process, he falls in line. He didn’t do the right thing. He didn’t even come within 500 yards of doing the right thing. For the past two decades, he has never done the right thing. He’s a fraud. Alex Pareene had him nailed ages ago. In fact, it’s “nice” Republicans like McCain who provide cover for evil swine like Mitch McConnell, allowing them to gut the American security net and fuck over anyone who doesn’t live behind an iron gate.
http://www.gq.com/story/john-mccain-is-the-perfect-american-lie
http://reverepress.com/politics/heres-much-healthcare-industry-paid-john-mccain-take-away-healthcare/
personally, i think the AHCA is going to be around a very long time unless the R get more of a majority in both house and senate so hopefully, liberal come out in masses to vote.
Fake news!
where I disagree with you on is the idea that the R. lost the health care battle. i don't think that is the case as the democrats are still playing in the same terms that the R established.
I don't think the democrats never wanted or cared if Obamacare would work longterm. They got exactly what they wanted....even if all insurers pull out and it fails miserably. They got it in place, people to get use to it, and now every time someone wants to talk about health care reform, the top line is ALWAYS about how many people will be left off. It was a brilliant thing to do. If the republicans had been smart, they would have done something long ago...then the narrative whenever the Dems wanted to change it would be..."Dems adding 10 million to Health Care but at a cost of $99 gazzilian"... Dems won the Health Care battle for sure, and I dont see the repubs getting back in the game really.
I disagree with the first bolded part. Obama ran on it and seeing the disarray his election victory wreaked on the republicans, as they were sure Hillary was going to be the nominee, their game plan to oppose was out the window and they had no response, he went for it right out of the gate. The republicans were knocked back on their heels. Rather than participate in the formulation of the legislation, as Obama offered, they preferred to, "our number one job is to see this (black) president fail." The insurance companies and health care industries were offered the opportunity to participate in the formulation of the legislation and instead, followed McConnell's and Boehner's lead. That was their colossal mistake (Obama spent a year and a half soliciting input, made it a priority for his Administration. It wasn't a half baked, unthought known). They could have at least have acted like they had input before opposing the bill. Instead, they sour graped and didn't want the dems to have a "victory." It shouldn't have been a surprise as they did the same thing to President Clinton with his first budget, passed without one republican vote. Has anyone noticed how Romneycare is working exceptionally well in Massachusetts? If the republicans had been smart, they would have been part of the solution, tweaked it along the way and taken credit for it. 42MM uninsured in the alleged "greatest nation on earth" is and was wholly unacceptable. Its time the republicans got serious, told Trump to get lost and do what's right. Will they? No, of course not. But just wait until those Trump supporters lose their health insurance and get screwed over. The best bills, legislation and solutions generally come from bi-partisan cooperation and compromise. Mitch and John refused to play along. Thank them for the shit we're in today.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
http://www.reverbnation.com/brianzilm
Is this sentence meant literally or was it meant to say:
"I don't think the democrats never ever wanted or cared if Obamacare would work longterm. "
??
What McCain did was hard. What Murkowski and Collins did was much harder.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/7/28/16055132/murkowski-collins-mccain?utm_campaign=vox.social&utm_medium=social&utm_content=ezraklein&utm_source=facebook
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©