I don't think modern music has peaked (or I believe that there are many peaks). It's just that the consumption of popular music peaked. As simmers said, the market is just SO much more spread out now. That doesn't equate to the quality of the music being produced being lower. I feel like there was just as much crap being produced back in the day as there is today. It's just that the cream doesn't float to the top so easily anymore.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
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goldrush
everybody knows this is nowhere Posts: 7,271
Great topic Brian! I've been thinking a lot about music along these lines recently. My love of music started with my dad's record collection - Cream, Stones, Beatles, Neil/CSNY, Hendrix, the usual suspects. I'm 40 now and my son is about to turn 3; I find myself wondering what he'll be listening to in 12 years time (he'll be 15, the age I discovered Sonic Youth), or when he gets to 40...
As much as I would love for him to be listening to Ryan Adams or Joseph Arthur in years to come - or even Pearl Jam for that matter - it's probably unlikely (unless he's rummaging through my 'old' records!)
As people have mentioned previously, the industry has changed and the way that music is made, marketed and consumed has changed. TV talent shows, and streaming/downloading mean that this year's Next Big Thing is often forgotten about by next year. Even The Beatles would struggle to be anything more than just another boy band these days.
There have certainly been game changers within genres, although not necessarily since 2000. John Frusciante is the first that springs to mind for me; Radiohead, Jack Rose, DJ Shadow, even Eminem, have all brought something new to their fields. I guess Beyoncé, Kendrick or Jack White (more for Third Man than for his solo music) would be more relevant examples to the original post. I can't think of many others.
It's an interesting time for sure. There will be another music revolution, the talent show crap can't last forever! Maybe the most influential artist since 2000 is yet to be discovered. Maybe that guy with the beat up old acoustic in your local bar is the next Dylan. Maybe it really is going to be Bieber! Either way, it'll be fun finding out...
Excellent post here, goldrush. Sometimes music fades away for good, sometimes just for a while. I do think things tend to cycle. I remember when big band music really died off with my parent's generation (G.I. generation, all but gone although my old man is still around at 96!) but then my daughter-in-law's generation started to bring it back. She and her friends are into stuff like Glen Miller and earlier Frank Sinatra. So maybe your son,s kids will pull out grandpas old copy of "Fresh Cream" and rock out!
That's the dream isn't it? Passing down knowledge - or in this case vinyl - through the generations. I may have to explain that music was once a physical medium though - and how to use a record player! I just hope I'm not too old and deaf when the time comes
“Do not postpone happiness”
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
I don't think modern music has peaked (or I believe that there are many peaks). It's just that the consumption of popular music peaked. As simmers said, the market is just SO much more spread out now. That doesn't equate to the quality of the music being produced being lower. I feel like there was just as much crap being produced back in the day as there is today. It's just that the cream doesn't float to the top so easily anymore.
Cream actually soared to the top, Sunshine!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
Great topic Brian! I've been thinking a lot about music along these lines recently. My love of music started with my dad's record collection - Cream, Stones, Beatles, Neil/CSNY, Hendrix, the usual suspects. I'm 40 now and my son is about to turn 3; I find myself wondering what he'll be listening to in 12 years time (he'll be 15, the age I discovered Sonic Youth), or when he gets to 40...
As much as I would love for him to be listening to Ryan Adams or Joseph Arthur in years to come - or even Pearl Jam for that matter - it's probably unlikely (unless he's rummaging through my 'old' records!)
As people have mentioned previously, the industry has changed and the way that music is made, marketed and consumed has changed. TV talent shows, and streaming/downloading mean that this year's Next Big Thing is often forgotten about by next year. Even The Beatles would struggle to be anything more than just another boy band these days.
There have certainly been game changers within genres, although not necessarily since 2000. John Frusciante is the first that springs to mind for me; Radiohead, Jack Rose, DJ Shadow, even Eminem, have all brought something new to their fields. I guess Beyoncé, Kendrick or Jack White (more for Third Man than for his solo music) would be more relevant examples to the original post. I can't think of many others.
It's an interesting time for sure. There will be another music revolution, the talent show crap can't last forever! Maybe the most influential artist since 2000 is yet to be discovered. Maybe that guy with the beat up old acoustic in your local bar is the next Dylan. Maybe it really is going to be Bieber! Either way, it'll be fun finding out...
Excellent post here, goldrush. Sometimes music fades away for good, sometimes just for a while. I do think things tend to cycle. I remember when big band music really died off with my parent's generation (G.I. generation, all but gone although my old man is still around at 96!) but then my daughter-in-law's generation started to bring it back. She and her friends are into stuff like Glen Miller and earlier Frank Sinatra. So maybe your son,s kids will pull out grandpas old copy of "Fresh Cream" and rock out!
That's the dream isn't it? Passing down knowledge - or in this case vinyl - through the generations. I may have to explain that music was once a physical medium though - and how to use a record player! I just hope I'm not too old and deaf when the time comes
I'll say, "I hear ya", while I still can.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
My opinion is those of us thinking of huge rock bands from that time are going to be wrong. When i think back to bands that were remembered 40-50 years ago (like Elvis, Beach Boys, Beatles, Stones etc) they were all music of the youth at that time. Rock has not been the music of the young for a long time. By that i mean its not been wildly popular in the 2000's sure we all love it and it has a lot of fans but rap and other genres seem to be bigger. My parents likely don't know much about arcade fire but if i say Kanye or Taylor Swift they know them.
So i think folks predicting Taylor Swift, Kanye Adele, and others like that will be more likely to be right.
As for the rock genre. Just look at who continually headlines festivals. Those are the ones drawing the biggest crowds. I guess Arcade Fire and MMJ (if you consider them i know the first album was 99).
anyway that is my two cents
Charlotte 00 Charlotte 03 Asheville 04 Atlanta 12 Greenville 16, Columbia 16 Seattle 18 Nashville 22
john mayer is kicking ass these days. he's selling out arenas and playing at the top of his game right now. super bright future for him. and it's been a great ride so far! also zac brown band is killer just to name a couple...but there's lottsa others i'm sure and no there ain't gonna be another stones/beatles/led zepp but thats partly cause of the time they came about. there are many bands as good as those bands that are out today....it's just that in those days there weren't as many and a lot of amazing bands today get lost in the flood. way more options for good music these days!
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
It would be fascinating to be able to leap 200 years into the future and see which of the artists from the last 50 years up to today are widely recognized (like, for example, the way Mozart, Beethoven, Ellington and Parker are today).
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
It would be fascinating to be able to leap 200 years into the future and see which of the artists from the last 50 years up to today are widely recognized (like, for example, the way Mozart, Beethoven, Ellington and Parker are today).
Beatles and Miles Davis would be my first guess. I agree it would be interesting to gain that viewpoint.
Charlotte 00 Charlotte 03 Asheville 04 Atlanta 12 Greenville 16, Columbia 16 Seattle 18 Nashville 22
The National and Bon Iver?. I like them and all but no way! I have not heard one of their songs on mainstream radio. If you asked the average music fan if they have heard of them i guarantee less than half would have.
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
Something I've said before is I believe there is a musical revolution coming. Rock that is.
We are about due...
Exciting to think about!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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goldrush
everybody knows this is nowhere Posts: 7,271
I read an interesting article on music the other day, and I thought this section would fit in here:
"2. Rock music is in its jazz phase And I don’t mean it’s having a Kamasi Washington/Thundercat moment of extreme hipness. I mean it’s like Ryan Gosling’s version of jazz in La La Land: something fetishised by an older audience, but which has ceded its place at the centre of the pop-cultural conversation to other forms of music, ones less tied to a sense of history. Ones, dare I say it, more forward looking. For several years, it seemed, I was asked by one desk or another at the Guardian to write a start-of-year story about how this was the year rock would bounce back. But it never did. The experts who predicted big things for guitar bands each year were routinely wrong. No one asks for that story any longer.
That’s not to say rock and guitar bands aren’t still popular. Plenty of youngish bands can fill decent-sized rooms when they tour, and elicit a febrile response – I’ve never seen a room go bonkers the way Koko did for Catfish and the Bottlemen a couple of years back, for example. But guitar bands now feel as if they are at the periphery, and I don’t see much likelihood of that changing."
I read an interesting article on music the other day, and I thought this section would fit in here:
"2. Rock music is in its jazz phase And I don’t mean it’s having a Kamasi Washington/Thundercat moment of extreme hipness. I mean it’s like Ryan Gosling’s version of jazz in La La Land: something fetishised by an older audience, but which has ceded its place at the centre of the pop-cultural conversation to other forms of music, ones less tied to a sense of history. Ones, dare I say it, more forward looking. For several years, it seemed, I was asked by one desk or another at the Guardian to write a start-of-year story about how this was the year rock would bounce back. But it never did. The experts who predicted big things for guitar bands each year were routinely wrong. No one asks for that story any longer.
That’s not to say rock and guitar bands aren’t still popular. Plenty of youngish bands can fill decent-sized rooms when they tour, and elicit a febrile response – I’ve never seen a room go bonkers the way Koko did for Catfish and the Bottlemen a couple of years back, for example. But guitar bands now feel as if they are at the periphery, and I don’t see much likelihood of that changing."
He could be right (interesting article, by the way, Gold Rush, thanks!)
I may have said this earlier, but my thought is that what it will take for a new band to become huge is not necessarily something totally new and unusual (though wouldn't that be cool!), but maybe more importantly musicians and singers with a strong, individual voice. Again, thinking about Pearl Jam, Big Brother and the Holding Company, Crazy Horse, The Sex Pistols, or R.E.M. for example- Vedder, Joplin, Young, Lydon, Stipe- all of those people had unique voices with a lot of character. No one preceding them sounding like they did/do though many have tried to imitate any one of them. Same with guitar players- it's not at all inconceivable to me that a player will come along with a fresh approach backed back a unique guitar voicing.
At least all of that's my hope. We shall see!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Yeah, I don't think straight up rock will ever be dominant again. There will always be popular bands, I don't think it's gonna hit the lows that Jazz did when Rock emerged, but I don't think it's gonna be dominant again. I think you are gonna see an even distribution of popularity among the currently big genres and way more cross over in fandom.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
Yeah, I don't think straight up rock will ever be dominant again. There will always be popular bands, I don't think it's gonna hit the lows that Jazz did when Rock emerged, but I don't think it's gonna be dominant again. I think you are gonna see an even distribution of popularity among the currently big genres and way more cross over in fandom.
Speaking of jazz, where is that headed? Jazz evolved hugely from rag time to dixieland to swing to bebop to cool and post-bop to avante garde/free jazz to jazz rock fusion. Is that it?
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Great thread thank you! As I am reading through it I keep thinking about how in the beginning (back in 1955!) of modern music, and then for decades, there was only a certain few ways to consume music. I'm only 40 and what I remember as a high schooler was listening to the radio, going to the record store or Best Buy, or watching MTV. That was it. So pretty much the media decided for me what I consumed. Lucky for us 40 year olds some of it was pretty good! And for most the high school years are pretty important in developing taste in music.
Kids now I think have so many more ways to consume/discover music. I think about how if you graduated high school in 1990 you had heard "Sweet Child of Mine" a million times. In 10 years (or even now maybe) there might not be a song that every high schooler has heard a million times or even one time. They may each be consuming very different music from very different sources.
I also think about how the first people to do something are usually the ones we remember the most. I think going forward it will be harder and harder for artists to break into the "timeless/will be remembered by many forever" category because it is already a crowded category with a 70 year plus history for modern music. It will be possible, but the ones that do it will be fewer and farther between IMO. But who the hell knows? Like someone already said - it will be fun to find out!
Taylor Swift has been heard a million times. everyone has heard her hits. she is the biggest pop star in the world at the moment and i'm not sure anyone else is close.
Coldplay is this generations Journey. some radio friendly hits but in time they will fade away then come back when the nostalgia of this time frame hits.
rock will have a revival. there will be another Nirvana that catches a wave that everyone latches onto. it's just a matter of time.
Great thread thank you! As I am reading through it I keep thinking about how in the beginning (back in 1955!) of modern music, and then for decades, there was only a certain few ways to consume music. I'm only 40 and what I remember as a high schooler was listening to the radio, going to the record store or Best Buy, or watching MTV. That was it. So pretty much the media decided for me what I consumed. Lucky for us 40 year olds some of it was pretty good! And for most the high school years are pretty important in developing taste in music.
Kids now I think have so many more ways to consume/discover music. I think about how if you graduated high school in 1990 you had heard "Sweet Child of Mine" a million times. In 10 years (or even now maybe) there might not be a song that every high schooler has heard a million times or even one time. They may each be consuming very different music from very different sources.
I also think about how the first people to do something are usually the ones we remember the most. I think going forward it will be harder and harder for artists to break into the "timeless/will be remembered by many forever" category because it is already a crowded category with a 70 year plus history for modern music. It will be possible, but the ones that do it will be fewer and farther between IMO. But who the hell knows? Like someone already said - it will be fun to find out!
Taylor Swift has been heard a million times. everyone has heard her hits. she is the biggest pop star in the world at the moment and i'm not sure anyone else is close.
Coldplay is this generations Journey. some radio friendly hits but in time they will fade away then come back when the nostalgia of this time frame hits.
rock will have a revival. there will be another Nirvana that catches a wave that everyone latches onto. it's just a matter of time.
Yeah, I don't think straight up rock will ever be dominant again. There will always be popular bands, I don't think it's gonna hit the lows that Jazz did when Rock emerged, but I don't think it's gonna be dominant again. I think you are gonna see an even distribution of popularity among the currently big genres and way more cross over in fandom.
Speaking of jazz, where is that headed? Jazz evolved hugely from rag time to dixieland to swing to bebop to cool and post-bop to avante garde/free jazz to jazz rock fusion. Is that it?
Outside of little variations in those sub genres, it still basically exists in those areas. Granted yo get people like Kamasi who breakthrough and bring more people in, but its evolution is mixing it in with other genres like Kendrick did on TPAB.
Comments
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
“Put yer good money on the sunrise”
(Tim Rogers)
Rock has not been the music of the young for a long time. By that i mean its not been wildly popular in the 2000's sure we all love it and it has a lot of fans but rap and other genres seem to be bigger.
My parents likely don't know much about arcade fire but if i say Kanye or Taylor Swift they know them.
So i think folks predicting Taylor Swift, Kanye Adele, and others like that will be more likely to be right.
As for the rock genre. Just look at who continually headlines festivals. Those are the ones drawing the biggest crowds. I guess Arcade Fire and MMJ (if you consider them i know the first album was 99).
anyway that is my two cents
Charlotte 03
Asheville 04
Atlanta 12
Greenville 16, Columbia 16
Seattle 18
Nashville 22
also zac brown band is killer
just to name a couple...but there's lottsa others i'm sure
and no there ain't gonna be another stones/beatles/led zepp but thats partly cause of the time they came about. there are many bands as good as those bands that are out today....it's just that in those days there weren't as many and a lot of amazing bands today get lost in the flood. way more options for good music these days!
Charlotte 03
Asheville 04
Atlanta 12
Greenville 16, Columbia 16
Seattle 18
Nashville 22
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
We are about due...
"2. Rock music is in its jazz phase
And I don’t mean it’s having a Kamasi Washington/Thundercat moment of extreme hipness. I mean it’s like Ryan Gosling’s version of jazz in La La Land: something fetishised by an older audience, but which has ceded its place at the centre of the pop-cultural conversation to other forms of music, ones less tied to a sense of history. Ones, dare I say it, more forward looking. For several years, it seemed, I was asked by one desk or another at the Guardian to write a start-of-year story about how this was the year rock would bounce back. But it never did. The experts who predicted big things for guitar bands each year were routinely wrong. No one asks for that story any longer.
That’s not to say rock and guitar bands aren’t still popular. Plenty of youngish bands can fill decent-sized rooms when they tour, and elicit a febrile response – I’ve never seen a room go bonkers the way Koko did for Catfish and the Bottlemen a couple of years back, for example. But guitar bands now feel as if they are at the periphery, and I don’t see much likelihood of that changing."
The full article is here https://theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2017/mar/31/five-things-i-learned-as-guardian-music-editor-rock-music-writing-michael-hann
(Jeff Tweedy, Sydney 2007)
“Put yer good money on the sunrise”
(Tim Rogers)
I may have said this earlier, but my thought is that what it will take for a new band to become huge is not necessarily something totally new and unusual (though wouldn't that be cool!), but maybe more importantly musicians and singers with a strong, individual voice. Again, thinking about Pearl Jam, Big Brother and the Holding Company, Crazy Horse, The Sex Pistols, or R.E.M. for example- Vedder, Joplin, Young, Lydon, Stipe- all of those people had unique voices with a lot of character. No one preceding them sounding like they did/do though many have tried to imitate any one of them. Same with guitar players- it's not at all inconceivable to me that a player will come along with a fresh approach backed back a unique guitar voicing.
At least all of that's my hope. We shall see!
Coldplay is this generations Journey. some radio friendly hits but in time they will fade away then come back when the nostalgia of this time frame hits.
rock will have a revival. there will be another Nirvana that catches a wave that everyone latches onto. it's just a matter of time.