Marvel Cinematic Universe Movie Thread

Ever since the release of Iron Man these movies have far exceeded all expectations I have had. What are peoples thoughts on the recent Phase III announcement?? I am pretty excited for the TWO PART Infinity War movie. No way could one movie do that awesome story justice. Also love the casting for Black Panther and (hopefully) Dr. Strange!

Captain America: Civil War - May 6, 2016

Doctor Strange - November 4, 2016
Benedict Cumberbatch was not specifically confirmed at the Marvel event today, as that deal may not be finished yet. But he's reported in talks for the role.

Guardians of the Galaxy 2 - May 5, 2017
Guardians of the Galaxy 2's release date has been moved up from July 2017 to May of 2017.

Thor: Ragnarok - July 28, 2017
Thor Ragnarok has taken over the previously set GATG 2 date of July 28, and we also now know that Loki will be back!

Black Panther - November 3, 2017
Black Panther is lined up for November of 2017, and Chadwick Boseman is confirmed to star.

Captain Marvel - July 6, 2018
Marvel will release Captain Marvel in July of 2018, and it looks like Carol Danvers is the Captain Marvel we're getting. Here are our suggestions of who should play her.

Avengers: Infinity War Parts I and II - May 2018 and 2019
Avengers: Infinity War Part I will release May 4, 2018. Avengers: Infinity War Part II will arrive in theaters May 3, 2019.

Inhumans - November, 2, 2018
Inhumans now sits at the end of the Marvel Cinematic Universe's plans for Phase Three, and will be in theaters on November 2, 2018. Like the Avengers, the Guardians of the Galaxy and the Defenders, this is yet another team of powerful individuals coming to the big screen, and this one splices in all kinds of interesting alien mythology and puts on display some incredibly cool abilities.
PJ:
2003 Mansfield: July 2
2004 Boston: Sept 28 & 29
2005 Montreal: Sept 15
2006 Boston: May 24 & 25
2008 Hartford: June 27, Mansfield: June 28,
2010 Boston: May 17
2013 Worcester: Oct 15, Hartford: Oct 25,
2016 Hampton: April 18, Raleigh: April 20 (cancelled), Columbia: April 21. Quebec: May 5. Boston (Fenway): August 7

EV Solo: Boston 8/2/08, Boston 6/16/11
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Comments

  • just_onejust_one Lisbon Posts: 1,905
    Marvel just KILLED DC with that announcement!!

    Always loved comics but never read anything but i became a Marvel fan because of the MCU and to me this is just an awesome announcement.

    When all is set and done Marvel will have done one amazing work with all the stories , its like a tv show but on the big screen.

    Everything is connected and thats what amazing to me :)
  • pjsteelerfanpjsteelerfan Maryland Posts: 9,883
    Really looking forward to all of it, and excited for Dr Strange and Black Panther. Think Cumberbatch and Boseman are perfect for the roles. Marvel basically just told me what I'll be going to the movies for over the next 5 years
    ...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    edited October 2014
    I knew they were doing Civil War but I kind of expected it to be Avengers (don't ask me why).
    Makes sense now why Iron Man is in Cap 3. Also am I wrong in thinking Cap 2 and 3 are released in between Thor 2 and 3?

    I am loving the Marvel movies though, keep em coming.
    Post edited by Rygar on
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,121
    image

    The Punisher owns all these fools. :P
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    Jason P said:

    image

    The Punisher owns all these fools. :P

    Are you sure?
    image

    I liked the last two Punisher movies at least :P
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,121
    Dolph is the true Punisher and rules all the fools that I pity.

    Come on god, answer me. for years I'm asking why, why are the innocent dead and the guilty alive? Where is justice? Where is punishment? Or have you already answered, have you already said to the world here is justice, here is punishment, here, in me.
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    Jason P said:

    Dolph is the true Punisher and rules all the fools that I pity.

    Come on god, answer me. for years I'm asking why, why are the innocent dead and the guilty alive? Where is justice? Where is punishment? Or have you already answered, have you already said to the world here is justice, here is punishment, here, in me.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JW68goC4_es
  • PJSirenPJSiren Salem, OR Posts: 5,863
    I only saw bits and pieces of the announcement over facebook feed, but I'm excited for what I did see and even more so for what you've posted here....I'm a total Marvel movie nerd!!!
    Music is my Religion and Pearl Jam, my Savior!
    Tattooed Dissident!
  • pjsteelerfanpjsteelerfan Maryland Posts: 9,883
    I am equally excited for the Netflix series. Wish they would announce a premiere date for Daredevil.
    ...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
  • ldent42ldent42 NYC Posts: 7,859
    I really hope this thread isn't going get turned into a bunch of people yelling at each other the way these conversations seem to do in real life.

    I really like these Marvel movies. I have been a Joss Whedon fan since Buffy so I was happy with the way he did the Avengers movie. I also really liked Guardians of the Galaxy.

    Are we going to include the TV stuff in here? Cuz I actually like Agents of Shield, I know most comic book nerds don't. They were supposed to show Agent Carter already too I dunno what ABC's problem is. But I bring it up cuz it'll be interesting to see how thats gonna work with the new Captain America movie which includes Tony Stark.
    NYC 06/24/08-Auckland 11/27/09-Chch 11/29/09-Newark 05/18/10-Atlanta 09/22/12-Chicago 07/19/13-Brooklyn 10/18/13 & 10/19/13-Hartford 10/25/13-Baltimore 10/27/13-Auckland 1/17/14-GC 1/19/14-Melbourne 1/24/14-Sydney 1/26/14-Amsterdam 6/16/14 & 6/17/14-Milan 6/20/14-Berlin 6/26/14-Leeds 7/8/14-Milton Keynes 7/11/14-St. Louis 10/3/14-NYC 9/26/15
    LIVEFOOTSTEPS.ORG/USER/?USR=435
  • jervin007jervin007 Posts: 3,181
    ldent42 said:


    Are we going to include the TV stuff in here?

    Go for it! Especially with SHIELD and Agent Carter interconnected with the movies and potentially Daredevil as well.

    Also read today that L.L Cool J might be joining the universe. Maybe Luke Cage??

    PJ:
    2003 Mansfield: July 2
    2004 Boston: Sept 28 & 29
    2005 Montreal: Sept 15
    2006 Boston: May 24 & 25
    2008 Hartford: June 27, Mansfield: June 28,
    2010 Boston: May 17
    2013 Worcester: Oct 15, Hartford: Oct 25,
    2016 Hampton: April 18, Raleigh: April 20 (cancelled), Columbia: April 21. Quebec: May 5. Boston (Fenway): August 7

    EV Solo: Boston 8/2/08, Boston 6/16/11
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    ldent42 said:

    I really hope this thread isn't going get turned into a bunch of people yelling at each other the way these conversations seem to do in real life.

    I really like these Marvel movies. I have been a Joss Whedon fan since Buffy so I was happy with the way he did the Avengers movie. I also really liked Guardians of the Galaxy.

    Are we going to include the TV stuff in here? Cuz I actually like Agents of Shield, I know most comic book nerds don't. They were supposed to show Agent Carter already too I dunno what ABC's problem is. But I bring it up cuz it'll be interesting to see how thats gonna work with the new Captain America movie which includes Tony Stark.

    I doubt the thread will turn into that. Nothing but Marvel love here :)
  • RiotZactRiotZact Posts: 6,201
    My mind is still blown from that announcement, it almost takes away the insane amount of excitement I had the other day when I saw the Ultron trailer.

    Does anybody know if Joss is supposed to the the infinity war movies? My mind is telling me that he won't but I'm really hoping that he will.

    I also love Agents of Shield, I think most of it's haters are people who watched only the first few episodes. It got slightly better after the mid season break and WAY better after Cap 2 came out. Season 2 has been nothing but awesome so far!
  • pjsteelerfanpjsteelerfan Maryland Posts: 9,883
    RiotZact said:

    My mind is still blown from that announcement, it almost takes away the insane amount of excitement I had the other day when I saw the Ultron trailer.

    Does anybody know if Joss is supposed to the the infinity war movies? My mind is telling me that he won't but I'm really hoping that he will.

    I also love Agents of Shield, I think most of it's haters are people who watched only the first few episodes. It got slightly better after the mid season break and WAY better after Cap 2 came out. Season 2 has been nothing but awesome so far!

    Allegedly, if not Joss, the Russo brothers may do it after Cap 3.
    ...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
  • RiotZactRiotZact Posts: 6,201

    RiotZact said:

    My mind is still blown from that announcement, it almost takes away the insane amount of excitement I had the other day when I saw the Ultron trailer.

    Does anybody know if Joss is supposed to the the infinity war movies? My mind is telling me that he won't but I'm really hoping that he will.

    I also love Agents of Shield, I think most of it's haters are people who watched only the first few episodes. It got slightly better after the mid season break and WAY better after Cap 2 came out. Season 2 has been nothing but awesome so far!

    Allegedly, if not Joss, the Russo brothers may do it after Cap 3.
    Yeah I thought I heard something about that too, I think they did an amazing job with Winter Soldier (possibly my favorite MCU movie) but the MCU will be at such a fragile state at that point that making a change could be risky. Isn't that what happened with the X-Men movies? Singer left after the first 2 and the 3rd one sucked right?
  • jervin007jervin007 Posts: 3,181
    Its crazy that they have all the Marvel movies mapped out until 2019. I am hoping Joss sticks around, but only time will tell. If he's not directing hopefully he stays onboard as a consultant. Just please don't start making shitty movies like Peter Jackson, the hobbit movies are terrible compared to LOTR.

    I would have to say that my favorite Marvel movies at this point are Captain America 2: Winter Soldier, Guardians of the Galaxy and the first Iron Man
    PJ:
    2003 Mansfield: July 2
    2004 Boston: Sept 28 & 29
    2005 Montreal: Sept 15
    2006 Boston: May 24 & 25
    2008 Hartford: June 27, Mansfield: June 28,
    2010 Boston: May 17
    2013 Worcester: Oct 15, Hartford: Oct 25,
    2016 Hampton: April 18, Raleigh: April 20 (cancelled), Columbia: April 21. Quebec: May 5. Boston (Fenway): August 7

    EV Solo: Boston 8/2/08, Boston 6/16/11
  • RiotZactRiotZact Posts: 6,201
    jervin007 said:

    Its crazy that they have all the Marvel movies mapped out until 2019.

    As crazy as that is, Kevin said last year that he has a pretty good outline of the MCU all the way up to 2028 :-O
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    RiotZact said:

    RiotZact said:

    My mind is still blown from that announcement, it almost takes away the insane amount of excitement I had the other day when I saw the Ultron trailer.

    Does anybody know if Joss is supposed to the the infinity war movies? My mind is telling me that he won't but I'm really hoping that he will.

    I also love Agents of Shield, I think most of it's haters are people who watched only the first few episodes. It got slightly better after the mid season break and WAY better after Cap 2 came out. Season 2 has been nothing but awesome so far!

    Allegedly, if not Joss, the Russo brothers may do it after Cap 3.
    Yeah I thought I heard something about that too, I think they did an amazing job with Winter Soldier (possibly my favorite MCU movie) but the MCU will be at such a fragile state at that point that making a change could be risky. Isn't that what happened with the X-Men movies? Singer left after the first 2 and the 3rd one sucked right?
    X-men - pretty much. Although he came back for Days of Future Past and it was really good.
    The Wolverine was also exceptional, I thought (especially as a comics guy) and First Class was pretty good as well. They're doing a good job alongside MCU, hopefully they keep it up.

  • jervin007jervin007 Posts: 3,181
    PJ:
    2003 Mansfield: July 2
    2004 Boston: Sept 28 & 29
    2005 Montreal: Sept 15
    2006 Boston: May 24 & 25
    2008 Hartford: June 27, Mansfield: June 28,
    2010 Boston: May 17
    2013 Worcester: Oct 15, Hartford: Oct 25,
    2016 Hampton: April 18, Raleigh: April 20 (cancelled), Columbia: April 21. Quebec: May 5. Boston (Fenway): August 7

    EV Solo: Boston 8/2/08, Boston 6/16/11
  • pjsteelerfanpjsteelerfan Maryland Posts: 9,883
    I hope Joss stays to finish this run of Avenger movies. The X-men deal is a little different. Not sure what happened with Singer and FOX, but FOX brought Ratner in and he struck out on the third movie. Don't think he was bought in or even was a fan. Thankfully Fox realized their error and got Singer back on board. He basically had to do DOFP to reset all the things they screwed up. But Marvel has everyone set across the board with the shared universe, Movie, TV, and Netflix. Even rumors that Sony has got smart and wants to get spiderman in on it.
    ...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
  • RiotZactRiotZact Posts: 6,201
    Rygar said:

    RiotZact said:

    RiotZact said:

    My mind is still blown from that announcement, it almost takes away the insane amount of excitement I had the other day when I saw the Ultron trailer.

    Does anybody know if Joss is supposed to the the infinity war movies? My mind is telling me that he won't but I'm really hoping that he will.

    I also love Agents of Shield, I think most of it's haters are people who watched only the first few episodes. It got slightly better after the mid season break and WAY better after Cap 2 came out. Season 2 has been nothing but awesome so far!

    Allegedly, if not Joss, the Russo brothers may do it after Cap 3.
    Yeah I thought I heard something about that too, I think they did an amazing job with Winter Soldier (possibly my favorite MCU movie) but the MCU will be at such a fragile state at that point that making a change could be risky. Isn't that what happened with the X-Men movies? Singer left after the first 2 and the 3rd one sucked right?
    X-men - pretty much. Although he came back for Days of Future Past and it was really good.
    The Wolverine was also exceptional, I thought (especially as a comics guy) and First Class was pretty good as well. They're doing a good job alongside MCU, hopefully they keep it up.

    I've never been a big X-Men fan as far as comics or movies go but I also thought First Class was great, by far my favorite X-Men movie. And yeah after DOFP they will be fine on their own, but Spider-Man on the other hand............cmon Sony it's time to give it up, maybe if the Sinister Six tanks badly we'll see Spidey in the Infinity Wars!
  • pjsteelerfanpjsteelerfan Maryland Posts: 9,883
    image
    ...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
  • RiotZactRiotZact Posts: 6,201

    I hope Joss stays to finish this run of Avenger movies. The X-men deal is a little different. Not sure what happened with Singer and FOX, but FOX brought Ratner in and he struck out on the third movie. Don't think he was bought in or even was a fan. Thankfully Fox realized their error and got Singer back on board. He basically had to do DOFP to reset all the things they screwed up. But Marvel has everyone set across the board with the shared universe, Movie, TV, and Netflix. Even rumors that Sony has got smart and wants to get spiderman in on it.

    Yeah I guess the Russo brothers would be a totally different story being that they have a good track record with Cap and what not.

    image

    =))
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    RiotZact said:

    Rygar said:

    RiotZact said:

    RiotZact said:

    My mind is still blown from that announcement, it almost takes away the insane amount of excitement I had the other day when I saw the Ultron trailer.

    Does anybody know if Joss is supposed to the the infinity war movies? My mind is telling me that he won't but I'm really hoping that he will.

    I also love Agents of Shield, I think most of it's haters are people who watched only the first few episodes. It got slightly better after the mid season break and WAY better after Cap 2 came out. Season 2 has been nothing but awesome so far!

    Allegedly, if not Joss, the Russo brothers may do it after Cap 3.
    Yeah I thought I heard something about that too, I think they did an amazing job with Winter Soldier (possibly my favorite MCU movie) but the MCU will be at such a fragile state at that point that making a change could be risky. Isn't that what happened with the X-Men movies? Singer left after the first 2 and the 3rd one sucked right?
    X-men - pretty much. Although he came back for Days of Future Past and it was really good.
    The Wolverine was also exceptional, I thought (especially as a comics guy) and First Class was pretty good as well. They're doing a good job alongside MCU, hopefully they keep it up.

    I've never been a big X-Men fan as far as comics or movies go but I also thought First Class was great, by far my favorite X-Men movie. And yeah after DOFP they will be fine on their own, but Spider-Man on the other hand............cmon Sony it's time to give it up, maybe if the Sinister Six tanks badly we'll see Spidey in the Infinity Wars!
    Wolverine, Cap, X-men were my three go-to comic series' growing up. I thought the Wolverine did a fantastic job from a comics perspective. The DOFP storyline has been retold through various media a little differently each time, but I loved the movie.
  • RiotZactRiotZact Posts: 6,201
    Rygar said:

    RiotZact said:

    Rygar said:

    RiotZact said:

    RiotZact said:

    My mind is still blown from that announcement, it almost takes away the insane amount of excitement I had the other day when I saw the Ultron trailer.

    Does anybody know if Joss is supposed to the the infinity war movies? My mind is telling me that he won't but I'm really hoping that he will.

    I also love Agents of Shield, I think most of it's haters are people who watched only the first few episodes. It got slightly better after the mid season break and WAY better after Cap 2 came out. Season 2 has been nothing but awesome so far!

    Allegedly, if not Joss, the Russo brothers may do it after Cap 3.
    Yeah I thought I heard something about that too, I think they did an amazing job with Winter Soldier (possibly my favorite MCU movie) but the MCU will be at such a fragile state at that point that making a change could be risky. Isn't that what happened with the X-Men movies? Singer left after the first 2 and the 3rd one sucked right?
    X-men - pretty much. Although he came back for Days of Future Past and it was really good.
    The Wolverine was also exceptional, I thought (especially as a comics guy) and First Class was pretty good as well. They're doing a good job alongside MCU, hopefully they keep it up.

    I've never been a big X-Men fan as far as comics or movies go but I also thought First Class was great, by far my favorite X-Men movie. And yeah after DOFP they will be fine on their own, but Spider-Man on the other hand............cmon Sony it's time to give it up, maybe if the Sinister Six tanks badly we'll see Spidey in the Infinity Wars!
    Wolverine, Cap, X-men were my three go-to comic series' growing up. I thought the Wolverine did a fantastic job from a comics perspective. The DOFP storyline has been retold through various media a little differently each time, but I loved the movie.
    Yeah as a die hard Spidey fan I'm kind of jealous of X-men/Wolverine fans, I really like Garfield as Peter but there's just something not right about the new movies.
  • pjsteelerfanpjsteelerfan Maryland Posts: 9,883
    I hope Spidey ends up back with Marvel somehow. I sort of recall reading how Sony is a pain from both Sam Raimi and Garfield. Like Raimi's third Spidey film was just supposed to be the Sandman and Sony basically forced him to use Venom, and that is a reason why he left the franchise. I think I read the same thing later where Garfiled mentioned the original Spiderman 2 script was so good before Sony started messing with it.
    ...got a mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul...
  • RiotZactRiotZact Posts: 6,201

    I hope Spidey ends up back with Marvel somehow. I sort of recall reading how Sony is a pain from both Sam Raimi and Garfield. Like Raimi's third Spidey film was just supposed to be the Sandman and Sony basically forced him to use Venom, and that is a reason why he left the franchise. I think I read the same thing later where Garfiled mentioned the original Spiderman 2 script was so good before Sony started messing with it.

    Yeah that was definitely the problem with Spiderman 3 and ASM2, way to much shoving stuff where it doesn't belong. In Spider-Man 3 it was forcing a fan favorite character into the script and ASM2 was way to much world building.

  • jervin007jervin007 Posts: 3,181
    Rygar said:

    RiotZact said:

    Rygar said:

    RiotZact said:

    RiotZact said:

    My mind is still blown from that announcement, it almost takes away the insane amount of excitement I had the other day when I saw the Ultron trailer.

    Does anybody know if Joss is supposed to the the infinity war movies? My mind is telling me that he won't but I'm really hoping that he will.

    I also love Agents of Shield, I think most of it's haters are people who watched only the first few episodes. It got slightly better after the mid season break and WAY better after Cap 2 came out. Season 2 has been nothing but awesome so far!

    Allegedly, if not Joss, the Russo brothers may do it after Cap 3.
    Yeah I thought I heard something about that too, I think they did an amazing job with Winter Soldier (possibly my favorite MCU movie) but the MCU will be at such a fragile state at that point that making a change could be risky. Isn't that what happened with the X-Men movies? Singer left after the first 2 and the 3rd one sucked right?
    X-men - pretty much. Although he came back for Days of Future Past and it was really good.
    The Wolverine was also exceptional, I thought (especially as a comics guy) and First Class was pretty good as well. They're doing a good job alongside MCU, hopefully they keep it up.

    I've never been a big X-Men fan as far as comics or movies go but I also thought First Class was great, by far my favorite X-Men movie. And yeah after DOFP they will be fine on their own, but Spider-Man on the other hand............cmon Sony it's time to give it up, maybe if the Sinister Six tanks badly we'll see Spidey in the Infinity Wars!
    Wolverine, Cap, X-men were my three go-to comic series' growing up. I thought the Wolverine did a fantastic job from a comics perspective. The DOFP storyline has been retold through various media a little differently each time, but I loved the movie.
    I keep holding out hope that they will make some rated R Marvel movies. Wolverine is #1 on that list for me. I wish his solo movies were darker. I did hear Deadpool could be rated R though!
    PJ:
    2003 Mansfield: July 2
    2004 Boston: Sept 28 & 29
    2005 Montreal: Sept 15
    2006 Boston: May 24 & 25
    2008 Hartford: June 27, Mansfield: June 28,
    2010 Boston: May 17
    2013 Worcester: Oct 15, Hartford: Oct 25,
    2016 Hampton: April 18, Raleigh: April 20 (cancelled), Columbia: April 21. Quebec: May 5. Boston (Fenway): August 7

    EV Solo: Boston 8/2/08, Boston 6/16/11
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    jervin007 said:

    Rygar said:

    RiotZact said:

    Rygar said:

    RiotZact said:

    RiotZact said:

    My mind is still blown from that announcement, it almost takes away the insane amount of excitement I had the other day when I saw the Ultron trailer.

    Does anybody know if Joss is supposed to the the infinity war movies? My mind is telling me that he won't but I'm really hoping that he will.

    I also love Agents of Shield, I think most of it's haters are people who watched only the first few episodes. It got slightly better after the mid season break and WAY better after Cap 2 came out. Season 2 has been nothing but awesome so far!

    Allegedly, if not Joss, the Russo brothers may do it after Cap 3.
    Yeah I thought I heard something about that too, I think they did an amazing job with Winter Soldier (possibly my favorite MCU movie) but the MCU will be at such a fragile state at that point that making a change could be risky. Isn't that what happened with the X-Men movies? Singer left after the first 2 and the 3rd one sucked right?
    X-men - pretty much. Although he came back for Days of Future Past and it was really good.
    The Wolverine was also exceptional, I thought (especially as a comics guy) and First Class was pretty good as well. They're doing a good job alongside MCU, hopefully they keep it up.

    I've never been a big X-Men fan as far as comics or movies go but I also thought First Class was great, by far my favorite X-Men movie. And yeah after DOFP they will be fine on their own, but Spider-Man on the other hand............cmon Sony it's time to give it up, maybe if the Sinister Six tanks badly we'll see Spidey in the Infinity Wars!
    Wolverine, Cap, X-men were my three go-to comic series' growing up. I thought the Wolverine did a fantastic job from a comics perspective. The DOFP storyline has been retold through various media a little differently each time, but I loved the movie.
    I keep holding out hope that they will make some rated R Marvel movies. Wolverine is #1 on that list for me. I wish his solo movies were darker. I did hear Deadpool could be rated R though!
    I am with you on that one!
    The Wolverine was definitely the closest. A superhero slaughter in DOFP wasn't bad either ;)
  • RygarRygar Posts: 8,685
    RiotZact said:

    I hope Spidey ends up back with Marvel somehow. I sort of recall reading how Sony is a pain from both Sam Raimi and Garfield. Like Raimi's third Spidey film was just supposed to be the Sandman and Sony basically forced him to use Venom, and that is a reason why he left the franchise. I think I read the same thing later where Garfiled mentioned the original Spiderman 2 script was so good before Sony started messing with it.

    Yeah that was definitely the problem with Spiderman 3 and ASM2, way to much shoving stuff where it doesn't belong. In Spider-Man 3 it was forcing a fan favorite character into the script and ASM2 was way to much world building.

    That was a huge problem with Origins: Wolverine. Why oh why did they stuff it full of characters, especially ones who shouldn't have been there....sigh.

    So Agents of Shield seems to be well loved in this thread. The commercials didn't sell me on it, but you folks recommend it, obviously?
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