...but the only difference is that we had the music to cope with all of that.
Today, its either complete pop, or pop-punk, if there is such a thing. Its all so watered down.
Listening to PJ Alice in Chains, etc made it easier to deal with those issues because you felt there was someone on your side.
I understand what you're saying and agree. There are two differences I really see.
1. One is that MTV doesn't play any videos from those two bands so there is virtually no visibility within the teen/youth age group. As a result the original observations by other posters about them wishing other people their age were into PJ (or at least "good" music).
2. Don't kids today also have the same music to cope with that we did? They can still listen to PJ's or AIC's first albums and relate to them if they so choose. The only additional struggle I see with this is that because of the first point above they'll have to dig a little bit to discover some music that is different that what they are normally exposed to ("complete pop, or pop-punk"). We did the same, but instead of going on the internet and having the world at our fingertips we had to go through our parent's vinyl collection and hope they had more than Barbara Streisand, the Monkees, and a Johnny Mathis Christmas album.
Also, what I miss most is people have forgotten how to listen to music.
People only listen to music when they are in the car, doing housework, at a bar, or playing video games.
Me and my friends used to sit around and......listen to music. Just to listen to the music.
People dont do that anymore. If you invite someone over to your house to listen to music, you have to have the TV on, play a game, etc.
People now have the attention span of houseflies.
I understand what you're saying. I really feel this is true as well, but only for me. I don't honestly know if it is true en mass. Just because our lives may have changed whereas we now have less "free time" in which to listen to an album or music in general doesn't mean that other people still don't.
I also don't honestly know if teenagers lives are really any more busy than they were 20 years ago. Sure there's the internet now, but part-time jobs, after school sports, hobbies, girls/boys, chores, theater/drama, homework/studying, socializing, video games, movies, music, magazines, road trips, etc... all these things existed back then. Part of me just thinks that the experience of growing up is one in which you go through a phase where it is natural to romanticize the past and think about how much "nicer/simpler/easier/etc..." it was "back then" when, in fact, it seems to me that is just not the case at all. People in the great depression didn't have cars, jobs, after school sports, the internet, or any of the modern conveniences and they're lives were pretty darn hard and stressful.
I agree that people tend to romanticize the past. However, while kids today HAVE the same music we do, it was much more readily availalbe back then. And it was much more widely accepted.
Even though I like the WHo, Neil Young, etc, I still wasnt really alive during the period that music was released, so its till not "mine", so to speak.
Even though I like the WHo, Neil Young, etc, I still wasnt really alive during the period that music was released, so its till not "mine", so to speak.
Well said. I think this probably gets to the heart of the matter pretty effectively.
Every five years or so I start looking around for the next "great impact" to be made by a rock band. I never hear or see it though. It seems as if mass media hasn't been able to latch on to anything significant since 1991/1992 (they tried like hell with the Strokes). I am always wondering if there will be another band/group of bands that make the same musical impact as PJ/AIC/Nirvana/Soundgarden.
"A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
kids today might have the same music to listen to but it's not the same as hearing it when it's new. the early to mid 90s was an awesome time because it was fresh. Hearing PJ, Nirvana, AIC, etc. as they hit the mainstream and came out with new music was incredibly exciting. I still remember when Vs. was released and the excitement of that album. I can remember hearing Daugther and being blown away (especially since I thought In Utero sucked) and having to listen to it everytime i was in my car. I'd pop that tape in (still have the tape that has 'five against one' listed as the album title on the actual cassette) and blast the fucker everytime. There are a number of songs from that era that I identify by how and where I used to hear them. It definitely is greater to experience music as it is being defined then years later even if years later it is still great music.
This thread is one of the best reads that's been on here in years!!!!!
I was lucky enough to be 14 in 1990 when I started high school. talk about lucky timing as I got to experience it all from day one. One thing I've noticed since about 99-2000 when Napster first hit the scene is that music is no longer categorized by "scenes" or places. In the sixties it was San Fransisco or Greenwich Village in New York or Britain. In the seventies there was Rock out of Detroit, Punk in England, the horrible Disco scene. The 80's was all about LA hair bands and the 90's really focused on Seatlle, and the many imitators around the world.
Now a days it seems the Internet has taken access to music and created thousands of little tribes. We all can access bands and music instantly that we would never have been able to in the past. there is no such thing as a "Scene" anymore for kids to gravitate towards as technology has provided almost too many choices.....although it's awesome that we get any type of music from any part of the world in our living rooms instantly, I do miss following the scenes that use to evolve.
Almost anyone can get discovered from Youtube, their MySpace page. There's no need to go out and play the bar scene and pray that some AR guy is going to come see your band and dig your sounds to get a contract. Grunge was/is probably the last scene in history in which bands took this route. The Internet has changed the way bands record/distribute and promote themselves........I guess I was glad to experience the short blast that was Grunge. The best thing was that the musicians were real people that a lot of us could relate to, they weren't manufactured, talentless photo shoot babies. Thank God PJ survived it all!!!1
Even though I like the WHo, Neil Young, etc, I still wasnt really alive during the period that music was released, so its till not "mine", so to speak.
Well said. I think this probably gets to the heart of the matter pretty effectively.
Every five years or so I start looking around for the next "great impact" to be made by a rock band. I never hear or see it though. It seems as if mass media hasn't been able to latch on to anything significant since 1991/1992 (they tried like hell with the Strokes). I am always wondering if there will be another band/group of bands that make the same musical impact as PJ/AIC/Nirvana/Soundgarden.
No doubt there will be. History shows that harsh economic times and a disconnect with social policies and governments leads to great music. The past few years will lead to a movement of more angry and aggressive music. As the high schoola and college kids of today get out into the world and realized they are fucked because of the economy and such they will turn to more aggressive music. I fully expect the next 'Nevermind' or "Born in the USA' to shake the music scene up over the next few years.
No doubt there will be. History shows that harsh economic times and a disconnect with social policies and governments leads to great music. The past few years will lead to a movement of more angry and aggressive music. As the high schoola and college kids of today get out into the world and realized they are fucked because of the economy and such they will turn to more aggressive music. I fully expect the next 'Nevermind' or "Born in the USA' to shake the music scene up over the next few years.
I don't know about that. The 60s and Vietnam kicked off a lot of good shit, then the Gulf War preceded grunge. What did the Iraq War gives us? Jack shit. Economic downturns... uh, the late 70s and 80s gave us... hair metal? Arena cock rock? I rather doubt the shit economy right now is going to do music any good.
No doubt there will be. History shows that harsh economic times and a disconnect with social policies and governments leads to great music. The past few years will lead to a movement of more angry and aggressive music. As the high schoola and college kids of today get out into the world and realized they are fucked because of the economy and such they will turn to more aggressive music. I fully expect the next 'Nevermind' or "Born in the USA' to shake the music scene up over the next few years.
I don't know about that. The 60s and Vietnam kicked off a lot of good shit, then the Gulf War preceded grunge. What did the Iraq War gives us? Jack shit. Economic downturns... uh, the late 70s and 80s gave us... hair metal? Arena cock rock? I rather doubt the shit economy right now is going to do music any good.
I think with respect to pjhawks ideas about the conditions being what they are to influence new artists... he's correct. But I also agree with soulsinging's idea that one variable (the economy) influencing artists and putting new bands/music over the top into mass cultural (not popular) acceptance is not enough. I think with all that's been written about what lead up to the musical fertility in Seattle in 90/91/92, there is a pretty good indication that there has to be a multitude of variables and influencing factors. Without conducting my own in-depth research, economics does seem to be one of those variables.
"A lot more people are capable of being big out there that just don't give themselves a chance." -Stone Gossard
One thing I've noticed since about 99-2000 when Napster first hit the scene is that music is no longer categorized by "scenes" or places.
This is a really interesting observation and not one that I have thought about. Isn't it true though that Saddle Creek was trying to do this (at least through their marketing strategy)?
There is no such thing as a "Scene" anymore for kids to gravitate towards as technology has provided almost too many choices.....although it's awesome that we get any type of music from any part of the world in our living rooms instantly, I do miss following the scenes that use to evolve.
On the whole, I don't know if I can totally agree with you. I wonder if it's possible that the traditional narrow definition of a "scene" is no longer relevant, and that it's just being redefined in a wider way such that we can't accurately recognize it right now. I still have to think that bands who play locally on a regular basis form relationships with each other and influence each other through physical interaction more than watching something online.
No doubt there will be. History shows that harsh economic times and a disconnect with social policies and governments leads to great music. The past few years will lead to a movement of more angry and aggressive music. As the high schoola and college kids of today get out into the world and realized they are fucked because of the economy and such they will turn to more aggressive music. I fully expect the next 'Nevermind' or "Born in the USA' to shake the music scene up over the next few years.
I don't know about that. The 60s and Vietnam kicked off a lot of good shit, then the Gulf War preceded grunge. What did the Iraq War gives us? Jack shit. Economic downturns... uh, the late 70s and 80s gave us... hair metal? Arena cock rock? I rather doubt the shit economy right now is going to do music any good.
well you could argue that the IraqI War gave us 'American Idiot' which was a huge rock album (whether you enjoyed it or not). For an era where huge record sales lag American Idiot sold a huge number of records in comparison to the era (or seems to me it did, I don't have the numbers in front of me). Now that is only one album and doesn't indicate a shift from the crap hip hop r&b music in the mainstream as of yet. In my opinion though we will be seeing a shift to more rock music in the near future and a new era of rock music. I sense it coming.
Sorry to go back to the original topic. But I read this book this weekend. I was supposed to school work, and I was only going to read the PJ parts, but I kind of got sucked in and read almost the whole book in a couple of days.
I did love the book, but I will never be satisfied probably, so it left me wanting more. I wish this author could make a similar book just about Pearl Jam, with interviews with all the guys and Kelly and other important people.
One other thing about the book, I wish he could have talked to Dave of Krist from Nirvana, because it was too bad that no one from the band in their big days was part of the book. I also would have liked Chris Cornell, but since the other 3 guys from SG all participated, that was ok.
To the young kids out there, and trust me, I am one of those to, I was born in '84, I do think the book provides a good look into Seattle at the time, including all the bad stuff, like the drugs, and I would defintley recommend it to anyone wanting to learn more about that time. Even people who think they know a lot will probably learn some new stuff.
words seem so out of place.
8.21.00 Columbus | 6.24.03 Columbus | 7.9.03 NYC | 10.2.04 Toledo | 9.11.05 Kitchener | 5.20.06 Cleveland | 8.5.07 Chicago | 5.6.10 Columbus | 5.7.10 Noblesville | 5.9.10 Cleveland | 9.3.11 East Troy | 9.4.11 East Troy | 7.19.13 Chicago | 10.11.13 Pittsburgh | 10.1.14 Cincinnati | 4.8.16 Ft. Lauderdale | 4.9.16 Miami | 8.8.18 Seattle | 8.10.18 Seattle | 9.26.21 Dana Point | 10.1.21 Dana Point | 10.2.21 Dana Point | 9.16.22 Nashville | 9.17.22 Louisville | 9.18.22 St. Louis | 9.2.23 St. Paul | 9.15.23 Ft. Worth 6.26.11 Detroit (EdVed) | 9.23.17 Louisville (EdVed) | 9.25.21 Dana Point (EdVed) | 10.01.22 Dana Point (EdVed) | 2.6.22 Newark (EdVed)
Comments
I agree that people tend to romanticize the past. However, while kids today HAVE the same music we do, it was much more readily availalbe back then. And it was much more widely accepted.
Even though I like the WHo, Neil Young, etc, I still wasnt really alive during the period that music was released, so its till not "mine", so to speak.
Here to die.
Scared alive.
Well said. I think this probably gets to the heart of the matter pretty effectively.
Every five years or so I start looking around for the next "great impact" to be made by a rock band. I never hear or see it though. It seems as if mass media hasn't been able to latch on to anything significant since 1991/1992 (they tried like hell with the Strokes). I am always wondering if there will be another band/group of bands that make the same musical impact as PJ/AIC/Nirvana/Soundgarden.
I was lucky enough to be 14 in 1990 when I started high school. talk about lucky timing as I got to experience it all from day one. One thing I've noticed since about 99-2000 when Napster first hit the scene is that music is no longer categorized by "scenes" or places. In the sixties it was San Fransisco or Greenwich Village in New York or Britain. In the seventies there was Rock out of Detroit, Punk in England, the horrible Disco scene. The 80's was all about LA hair bands and the 90's really focused on Seatlle, and the many imitators around the world.
Now a days it seems the Internet has taken access to music and created thousands of little tribes. We all can access bands and music instantly that we would never have been able to in the past. there is no such thing as a "Scene" anymore for kids to gravitate towards as technology has provided almost too many choices.....although it's awesome that we get any type of music from any part of the world in our living rooms instantly, I do miss following the scenes that use to evolve.
Almost anyone can get discovered from Youtube, their MySpace page. There's no need to go out and play the bar scene and pray that some AR guy is going to come see your band and dig your sounds to get a contract. Grunge was/is probably the last scene in history in which bands took this route. The Internet has changed the way bands record/distribute and promote themselves........I guess I was glad to experience the short blast that was Grunge. The best thing was that the musicians were real people that a lot of us could relate to, they weren't manufactured, talentless photo shoot babies. Thank God PJ survived it all!!!1
No doubt there will be. History shows that harsh economic times and a disconnect with social policies and governments leads to great music. The past few years will lead to a movement of more angry and aggressive music. As the high schoola and college kids of today get out into the world and realized they are fucked because of the economy and such they will turn to more aggressive music. I fully expect the next 'Nevermind' or "Born in the USA' to shake the music scene up over the next few years.
I don't know about that. The 60s and Vietnam kicked off a lot of good shit, then the Gulf War preceded grunge. What did the Iraq War gives us? Jack shit. Economic downturns... uh, the late 70s and 80s gave us... hair metal? Arena cock rock? I rather doubt the shit economy right now is going to do music any good.
I think with respect to pjhawks ideas about the conditions being what they are to influence new artists... he's correct. But I also agree with soulsinging's idea that one variable (the economy) influencing artists and putting new bands/music over the top into mass cultural (not popular) acceptance is not enough. I think with all that's been written about what lead up to the musical fertility in Seattle in 90/91/92, there is a pretty good indication that there has to be a multitude of variables and influencing factors. Without conducting my own in-depth research, economics does seem to be one of those variables.
This is a really interesting observation and not one that I have thought about. Isn't it true though that Saddle Creek was trying to do this (at least through their marketing strategy)?
On the whole, I don't know if I can totally agree with you. I wonder if it's possible that the traditional narrow definition of a "scene" is no longer relevant, and that it's just being redefined in a wider way such that we can't accurately recognize it right now. I still have to think that bands who play locally on a regular basis form relationships with each other and influence each other through physical interaction more than watching something online.
+1!
well you could argue that the IraqI War gave us 'American Idiot' which was a huge rock album (whether you enjoyed it or not). For an era where huge record sales lag American Idiot sold a huge number of records in comparison to the era (or seems to me it did, I don't have the numbers in front of me). Now that is only one album and doesn't indicate a shift from the crap hip hop r&b music in the mainstream as of yet. In my opinion though we will be seeing a shift to more rock music in the near future and a new era of rock music. I sense it coming.
I want something huge like grunge in my youth, I am not getting younger.
I did love the book, but I will never be satisfied probably, so it left me wanting more. I wish this author could make a similar book just about Pearl Jam, with interviews with all the guys and Kelly and other important people.
One other thing about the book, I wish he could have talked to Dave of Krist from Nirvana, because it was too bad that no one from the band in their big days was part of the book. I also would have liked Chris Cornell, but since the other 3 guys from SG all participated, that was ok.
To the young kids out there, and trust me, I am one of those to, I was born in '84, I do think the book provides a good look into Seattle at the time, including all the bad stuff, like the drugs, and I would defintley recommend it to anyone wanting to learn more about that time. Even people who think they know a lot will probably learn some new stuff.
8.21.00 Columbus | 6.24.03 Columbus | 7.9.03 NYC | 10.2.04 Toledo | 9.11.05 Kitchener | 5.20.06 Cleveland | 8.5.07 Chicago | 5.6.10 Columbus | 5.7.10 Noblesville | 5.9.10 Cleveland | 9.3.11 East Troy | 9.4.11 East Troy | 7.19.13 Chicago | 10.11.13 Pittsburgh | 10.1.14 Cincinnati | 4.8.16 Ft. Lauderdale | 4.9.16 Miami | 8.8.18 Seattle | 8.10.18 Seattle | 9.26.21 Dana Point | 10.1.21 Dana Point | 10.2.21 Dana Point | 9.16.22 Nashville | 9.17.22 Louisville | 9.18.22 St. Louis | 9.2.23 St. Paul | 9.15.23 Ft. Worth
6.26.11 Detroit (EdVed) | 9.23.17 Louisville (EdVed) | 9.25.21 Dana Point (EdVed) | 10.01.22 Dana Point (EdVed) | 2.6.22 Newark (EdVed)