if it is about "recognizing faces up front"...............the complaint should be directed at people who go to all of the shows.
this point was made by ed i think in 06. he said something like dont you people have lives or jobs or fucking to do. there was more to the rant but the crowd laughed it up but reallymed was pissed. its no surprise grand rapids 06 wasnt a fuck up at all it was to test the waters of the lottery. like i said in a previous post the band should give us middle numbers and higher numbers the front 10 rows for concerts. i'm sure the band would love to see new faces enjoying the musice and not standing there eating while ed and the rest of the boys are sweating there ass's off.
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
I don't understand the people on here who are describing pits with kicking, elbowing, shoving, being knocked down and trampled...what the hell??? It's not a testosterone injected aggressive fit, just people dancing, jumping, screaming and loving life...there is no aggression, just love and fun! Since there are many people on the floor the crowd will shift and you will move out of place...and there are surfers but everyone is so considerate it's a comical irony... And there is no beer being spilled because everyone is having too much fun to be wasting their time drinking and eating... Obviously you have never seen a modern day GA show....
I don't understand the people on here who are describing pits with kicking, elbowing, shoving, being knocked down and trampled...what the hell??? It's not a testosterone injected aggressive fit, just people dancing, jumping, screaming and loving life...there is no aggression, just love and fun! Since there are many people on the floor the crowd will shift and you will move out of place...and there are surfers but everyone is so considerate it's a comical irony... And there is no beer being spilled because everyone is having too much fun to be wasting their time drinking and eating... Obviously you have never seen a modern day GA show....
I go to a lot of GA shows a year (between 20-40 most years) and there can be a lot of aggression, obviously depending on the band.
Don't mind people jumping, dancing, surfing, being pushed with the crowd from one side to the other at all! Unfortunatley it's not always like that.
For example - went to see a band in York last year and was on the barrier at the side. There were a group of people behind pushing, shoving, elbowing the people on the barrier in the back and worst of all deliberately trying to kick away the legs of those leaning on the barrier. The bruises I had after that gig were so bad it was unbelievable! Yeah I could have moved,but I didn't want the gits to get the better of me (and I'm a 5.2" girl!). That's what I hate about 'moshing'. For those who want to dance, jump and get lost in gthe music I@m totally all for that - you can go mental and still have respect for those around you!
Luckily the VAST majority of people on the floor at PJ gigs do have respect!
if it is about "recognizing faces up front"...............the complaint should be directed at people who go to all of the shows.
this point was made by ed i think in 06. he said something like dont you people have lives or jobs or fucking to do. there was more to the rant but the crowd laughed it up but reallymed was pissed. its no surprise grand rapids 06 wasnt a fuck up at all it was to test the waters of the lottery. like i said in a previous post the band should give us middle numbers and higher numbers the front 10 rows for concerts. i'm sure the band would love to see new faces enjoying the musice and not standing there eating while ed and the rest of the boys are sweating there ass's off.
the band would see new faces........if people did not go to every show.
as for giving the middle/higher numbers the first 10 rows..........i disagree.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
can someone please take the time to explain to me why paying $10-$20 a year since 1991, or whenever you joined, reserves you the right to attend every single show in the first few rows????? the only possible way it makes sense is that all that accumulated money (a whopping $300 max) bought you some stock in Pearl Jam and now you own some rights...
It would make a lot of sense if everyone had equal opportunity, which of course is impossible since this whole concept is time dependent (ie some people were not even born back then), and there are limited spaces available.......ugh. How can anyone justify something so stupid
Furthermore, 10C realizes this, that's why they came up with the lottery...at this point i think they're just too scared to abolish the whole thing, they'd get death threats from people who've looked up ed's nostrils for at least 50 shows....
I live in the southeast, and trust there would be no mosh pits, we are southern gents around here for the most part. I saw the Foo Fighter's in Memphis and was on the floor in the pit and I think there was maybe 1 mosh pit of about 4 ppl. Everybody else was just enjoying the show. I went to the Rites of Spring Fest at Vandy, and the only crowd surfing and moshing was because N.E.R.D. kept saying and encouraging moshing and crowd surfing.
Shows Attended
2008 - Bonnaroo
2009 - Chicago 1
2010 - St Louis, Columbus, Indianapolis, Washington D.C
2011 - Pearl Jam Twenty Festival
2012 - Music Midtown Festival
2013 - Wrigley, Dallas, Oklahoma City
2014 - St. Louis, Memphis
2016- Greenville, Lexington, Bonnaroo, Wrigley 1
can someone please take the time to explain to me why paying $10-$20 a year since 1991, or whenever you joined, reserves you the right to attend every single show in the first few rows????? the only possible way it makes sense is that all that accumulated money (a whopping $300 max) bought you some stock in Pearl Jam and now you own some rights...
It would make a lot of sense if everyone had equal opportunity, which of course is impossible since this whole concept is time dependent (ie some people were not even born back then), and there are limited spaces available.......ugh. How can anyone justify something so stupid
Furthermore, 10C realizes this, that's why they came up with the lottery...at this point i think they're just too scared to abolish the whole thing, they'd get death threats from people who've looked up ed's nostrils for at least 50 shows....
easy....10c implemented seniority. as for the lottery, correct me if i am wrong, but a fan on here submitted the idea of the lottery and 10c liked it.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
can someone please take the time to explain to me why paying $10-$20 a year since 1991, or whenever you joined, reserves you the right to attend every single show in the first few rows????? the only possible way it makes sense is that all that accumulated money (a whopping $300 max) bought you some stock in Pearl Jam and now you own some rights...
It would make a lot of sense if everyone had equal opportunity, which of course is impossible since this whole concept is time dependent (ie some people were not even born back then), and there are limited spaces available.......ugh. How can anyone justify something so stupid
Furthermore, 10C realizes this, that's why they came up with the lottery...at this point i think they're just too scared to abolish the whole thing, they'd get death threats from people who've looked up ed's nostrils for at least 50 shows....
easy....10c implemented seniority. as for the lottery, correct me if i am wrong, but a fan on here submitted the idea of the lottery and 10c liked it.
What is seniority, and how can justify such a concept that's laid down on an unequal foundation? Example: It's not like it's a team where eventually the rookies replace the veterans that retire, leaving the new rookies to clean up the locker room the way the vets used to do. That will never happen because we are stuck with you until eventually you die of old age or the band breaks up.....so, using this example to illustrate my theory you can SURELY see the concept of seniority does not apply here. If pearl jam was immortal then it would make sense, we would simply just wait until your membership expires (which would never happen; even at age 80 all of you would hold on to your precious numbers simply out of principal, and then somehow have your children inherit the number, and their children and their children-really we have NO choice)
Look...I don't want to attack you personally, you just happen to be one of the thousands that would give an identical response to me, and really my aim is to make at least 1 person aware; it all pisses me off that i can't get good tickets, especially for a reason that makes no sense!
can someone please take the time to explain to me why paying $10-$20 a year since 1991, or whenever you joined, reserves you the right to attend every single show in the first few rows????? the only possible way it makes sense is that all that accumulated money (a whopping $300 max) bought you some stock in Pearl Jam and now you own some rights...
It would make a lot of sense if everyone had equal opportunity, which of course is impossible since this whole concept is time dependent (ie some people were not even born back then), and there are limited spaces available.......ugh. How can anyone justify something so stupid
Furthermore, 10C realizes this, that's why they came up with the lottery...at this point i think they're just too scared to abolish the whole thing, they'd get death threats from people who've looked up ed's nostrils for at least 50 shows....
easy....10c implemented seniority. as for the lottery, correct me if i am wrong, but a fan on here submitted the idea of the lottery and 10c liked it.
you missed the point...you wrote something but that's not the answer, and i don't think you even know, to be honest. What is seniority, and how can justify such a concept laid down on an unequal foundation? It makes NO sense! I don't want to instigate you personally, you just happen to be one of the thousands that would give an identical response, and really my aim is to make at least 1 person aware, and mostly it pisses me off that i can't get good tickets, especially for a reason that makes no sense...if it did, I would accept it and move on
i suppose i am missing the concept. senority, to me, seems to be a simple concept as i understand it. it is quite possible that we have a different understanding of senoirity.
i simply look at it, the way i view all organized institutions.......someone will always have something better.
being pissed about "good tickets" and concerened about "unequal foundation"......i can understand about the "good tickets" but have no understanding about "unequal foundation".
please elaborate on "unequal foundation"?
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
It seems to me from reading this whole thread that the people who wan't GA are the one's with higher ###s but isn't the whole purpose of a GA show is to get to the front, who ever want's to get to the front you have to be there once the doors open,so please someone tell me how long do you think you would have to wait to get that spot in line 1hr ,2hrs 3hrs or longer before the doors open no ? ,it's all about being up front folks cause if you walk in once eveyone is at their spot you will be at the back where you can't see shit and the only way to get up front is by pushing & shoving your way up there cause you can't really just walk up there :roll: ..with out someone telling you to back the fuck up :x that makes for an agressive situation ....and i will f'n rock harder than any young buck around these parts up front, you won't find me with my arms crossed at any PJ gig senior here ...
i simply look at it, the way i view all organized institutions.......someone will always have something better.
being pissed about "good tickets" and concerened about "unequal foundation"......i can understand about the "good tickets" but have no understanding about "unequal foundation".
please elaborate on "unequal foundation"?[/quote]
I just edited it to clarify so just scroll up to my previous post. Perhaps we do have a different concept of seniority.....
you're right, someone will always have something better, but then it is not based on a fair system since we will never have an equal opportunity to eventually obtain your position...therefore the system is unfair. Normally, in an institution someone will eventually surrender their position (retirement, death, dementia, etc...) which will then allow the lower positioned people the opportunity to succeed. That's a realistic model of an institution applied to real life. but like i mentioned, the lower people (me) will never get that chance because your superior position has no end, it's infinite, and that's not fair...that's fascism haha
So you can't give benefits in a fan club membership based on a system of seniority...it's just not fair to the other fans in the club.
you're right, someone will always have something better, but then it is not based on a fair system since we will never have an equal opportunity to eventually obtain your position...therefore the system is unfair. Normally, in an institution someone will eventually surrender their position (retirement, death, dementia, etc...) which will then allow the lower positioned people the opportunity to succeed. That's a realistic model of an institution applied to real life. but like i mentioned, the lower people (me) will never get that chance because your superior position has no end, it's infinite, and that's not fair...that's fascism haha
So you can't give benefits in a fan club membership based on a system of seniority...it's just not fair to the other fans in the club.
all due respect.............being concerned about fairness within a music band club, seems strange.
check you pm.
live and let live...unless it violates the pearligious doctrine.
GA sucks for people who are small. I'm a 5'6" female, and I get the crap kicked out of me whenever I venture into the pit (not to mention I have to stand on my tiptoes the whole time to see over all the males around me). The Lollapalooza crowd was horrible. I stood near the front of the stage for 11 1/2 hours so I could be up front, and people were shoving past me hours and hours later. Not fair.
At least with assigned seating, if someone tries to steal your spot you can have them booted out of there. Plus there's not as many injuries. You don't have to be in a mosh pit to have crazy energy at a concert.
Chicago 2000 : Chicago 2003 : Chicago 2006 : Summerfest 2006 : Lollapalooza 2007 : Chicago 2009 : Noblesville (Indy) 2010 : PJ20 (East Troy) 2011 : Wrigley Field 2013 : Milwaukee (Yield) 2014 : Wrigley Field 2016
GA sucks for people who are small. I'm a 5'6" female, and I get the crap kicked out of me whenever I venture into the pit (not to mention I have to stand on my tiptoes the whole time to see over all the males around me). The Lollapalooza crowd was horrible. I stood near the front of the stage for 11 1/2 hours so I could be up front, and people were shoving past me hours and hours later. Not fair.
At least with assigned seating, if someone tries to steal your spot you can have them booted out of there. Plus there's not as many injuries. You don't have to be in a mosh pit to have crazy energy at a concert.
That's why I think GA seated is ideal - even if no one actually sits in the chairs, it defines an area as "your own".
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
GA sucks for people who are small. I'm a 5'6" female, and I get the crap kicked out of me whenever I venture into the pit (not to mention I have to stand on my tiptoes the whole time to see over all the males around me). The Lollapalooza crowd was horrible. I stood near the front of the stage for 11 1/2 hours so I could be up front, and people were shoving past me hours and hours later. Not fair.
At least with assigned seating, if someone tries to steal your spot you can have them booted out of there. Plus there's not as many injuries. You don't have to be in a mosh pit to have crazy energy at a concert.
That's why I think GA seated is ideal - even if no one actually sits in the chairs, it defines an area as "your own".
Yeah I agree with you because some people can just get out of hand at shows sometimes.
Let them wash away
All those yesterdays
All those yesterdays
All those paper plates
I saw the hip last night in nyc and was right on the rail. Great people around me. The most anyone did was bounce around in there spot. The problem with ga is u get the fratboy type that just drink and drink and force there way to the front. If u don't sell liquor people will act fine and respectful.
Ron: I just don't feel like going out tonight
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
What is seniority, and how can justify such a concept that's laid down on an unequal foundation? !
The fact of getting better seats due to seniority is a way of rewarding the 'customer' for his/her loyalty. Just like other businesses, stores, etc. those these obviously do this in a different manner, for example loyalty cards with special deals, airmiles, etc. Or, closer to home, O2 customers getting a presale on tix when bands play one of their venues. Same concept - different kind of 'business'.
Laid down on an unequal foundation? Not really. Fair? For some yes, for others no.....
What is seniority, and how can justify such a concept that's laid down on an unequal foundation? !
The fact of getting better seats due to seniority is a way of rewarding the 'customer' for his/her loyalty. Just like other businesses, stores, etc. those these obviously do this in a different manner, for example loyalty cards with special deals, airmiles, etc. Or, closer to home, O2 customers getting a presale on tix when bands play one of their venues. Same concept - different kind of 'business'.
Laid down on an unequal foundation? Not really. Fair? For some yes, for others no.....
Technically not quite the same - you don't get a better chance/better tickets through o2 if you've been their customer for longer. Similarly, you don't get more airmiles etc the longer you've been part of the reward scheme.
Getting a little off topic I know, but the argument of 'I've paid $10-$25 dollars a year for 17 years so deserve a good seat' only means a max of $425 spent on membership fees. I'm sure there are people who have only been a member for a few years who have spent more in total (yearly sub, tickets, merch etc) through 10c than some people who've been members for many more years and only been to the odd show or bought the odd t-shirt. Depends on what criteria 'loyalty' and 'deserving' is judged.
Arguments for and against both views, but fairest way would be completely random lottery for all 10c members. With the possibility (to somewhat satisfy the seniority base) of having say 1 entry into the lottery for every continuous year's membership (obviously still with maximum of one pair of tickets per show).
Anyway, regardless of the bruises don't think I'd want to change GA. I did however like the separate section at the front of some shows in 06 and 07, I think that helped to reduce the crush quite a bit. So maybe have the floor split into 2-3 sections only allowing so many people into each one (first come first served obviously).
GA sucks for people who are small. I'm a 5'6" female, and I get the crap kicked out of me whenever I venture into the pit (not to mention I have to stand on my tiptoes the whole time to see over all the males around me). The Lollapalooza crowd was horrible. I stood near the front of the stage for 11 1/2 hours so I could be up front, and people were shoving past me hours and hours later. Not fair.
At least with assigned seating, if someone tries to steal your spot you can have them booted out of there. Plus there's not as many injuries. You don't have to be in a mosh pit to have crazy energy at a concert.
That's why I think GA seated is ideal - even if no one actually sits in the chairs, it defines an area as "your own".
Yeah I agree with you because some people can just get out of hand at shows sometimes.
Exactly. I'm not sure I understand the band's thinking doing GA in Europe, but not in North America. Maybe it's just me, but I always thought North American shows are generally more tame than those in Europe - granted, that's a complete assumption. I don't really know why more bands don't do GA seating.. some friends of mine saw Jack Johnson at the Molson Amphitheatre with GA seating and they said it was great.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
What is seniority, and how can justify such a concept that's laid down on an unequal foundation? !
The fact of getting better seats due to seniority is a way of rewarding the 'customer' for his/her loyalty. Just like other businesses, stores, etc. those these obviously do this in a different manner, for example loyalty cards with special deals, airmiles, etc. Or, closer to home, O2 customers getting a presale on tix when bands play one of their venues. Same concept - different kind of 'business'.
Laid down on an unequal foundation? Not really. Fair? For some yes, for others no.....
Technically not quite the same - you don't get a better chance/better tickets through o2 if you've been their customer for longer. Similarly, you don't get more airmiles etc the longer you've been part of the reward scheme.
It's a reward scheme, however they want to administer it. 10C choose to base it on seniority, airmiles is based on amounts purchased, etc. So you in a way you are right, TECHNICALLY it is not quite the same because the criteria they base themselves on is different, but overall, a reward scheme is a reward scheme!
Whether you like this reward scheme is personal preference.
Not going to page through the whole thread, but in keeping with what they think is fair and giving everyone, regardless of size or sex, an equal chance, seats allow that to better happen. There's a lot of big dudes that like Pearl Jam. And there's a lot of people that will shove their way to the front, regardless of when they got there, and they are not chivalrous when it comes to smaller women. Having seats means if women got the lower number seat, they get to be there. Essentially, seats give Pearl Jam more control of who is in front or closer, so that it doesn't just turn into the survival of the fittest.
R.i.p. Rigoberto Alpizar.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
And there's a lot of people that will shove their way to the front, regardless of when they got there, and they are not chivalrous when it comes to smaller women.
Even though I prefer GA I have to agree with this, there are always some out there who don't care that people have waited patiently and respectfully in line and in the crowd and just push and elbow their way in front of the people who've waited for hours!
Comments
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
I go to a lot of GA shows a year (between 20-40 most years) and there can be a lot of aggression, obviously depending on the band.
Don't mind people jumping, dancing, surfing, being pushed with the crowd from one side to the other at all! Unfortunatley it's not always like that.
For example - went to see a band in York last year and was on the barrier at the side. There were a group of people behind pushing, shoving, elbowing the people on the barrier in the back and worst of all deliberately trying to kick away the legs of those leaning on the barrier. The bruises I had after that gig were so bad it was unbelievable! Yeah I could have moved,but I didn't want the gits to get the better of me (and I'm a 5.2" girl!). That's what I hate about 'moshing'. For those who want to dance, jump and get lost in gthe music I@m totally all for that - you can go mental and still have respect for those around you!
Luckily the VAST majority of people on the floor at PJ gigs do have respect!
http://www.strummersphotography.com
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Why is it automatically assumed that standing GA, ie the pit, is a 'mosh' pit. That's just not the case with PJ.
Go see some of the metal bands... now we're talking mosh!
as for giving the middle/higher numbers the first 10 rows..........i disagree.
It would make a lot of sense if everyone had equal opportunity, which of course is impossible since this whole concept is time dependent (ie some people were not even born back then), and there are limited spaces available.......ugh. How can anyone justify something so stupid
Furthermore, 10C realizes this, that's why they came up with the lottery...at this point i think they're just too scared to abolish the whole thing, they'd get death threats from people who've looked up ed's nostrils for at least 50 shows....
2008 - Bonnaroo
2009 - Chicago 1
2010 - St Louis, Columbus, Indianapolis, Washington D.C
2011 - Pearl Jam Twenty Festival
2012 - Music Midtown Festival
2013 - Wrigley, Dallas, Oklahoma City
2014 - St. Louis, Memphis
2016- Greenville, Lexington, Bonnaroo, Wrigley 1
What is seniority, and how can justify such a concept that's laid down on an unequal foundation? Example: It's not like it's a team where eventually the rookies replace the veterans that retire, leaving the new rookies to clean up the locker room the way the vets used to do. That will never happen because we are stuck with you until eventually you die of old age or the band breaks up.....so, using this example to illustrate my theory you can SURELY see the concept of seniority does not apply here. If pearl jam was immortal then it would make sense, we would simply just wait until your membership expires (which would never happen; even at age 80 all of you would hold on to your precious numbers simply out of principal, and then somehow have your children inherit the number, and their children and their children-really we have NO choice)
Look...I don't want to attack you personally, you just happen to be one of the thousands that would give an identical response to me, and really my aim is to make at least 1 person aware; it all pisses me off that i can't get good tickets, especially for a reason that makes no sense!
i simply look at it, the way i view all organized institutions.......someone will always have something better.
being pissed about "good tickets" and concerened about "unequal foundation"......i can understand about the "good tickets" but have no understanding about "unequal foundation".
please elaborate on "unequal foundation"?
being pissed about "good tickets" and concerened about "unequal foundation"......i can understand about the "good tickets" but have no understanding about "unequal foundation".
please elaborate on "unequal foundation"?[/quote]
I just edited it to clarify so just scroll up to my previous post. Perhaps we do have a different concept of seniority.....
So you can't give benefits in a fan club membership based on a system of seniority...it's just not fair to the other fans in the club.
check you pm.
At least with assigned seating, if someone tries to steal your spot you can have them booted out of there. Plus there's not as many injuries. You don't have to be in a mosh pit to have crazy energy at a concert.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
Yeah I agree with you because some people can just get out of hand at shows sometimes.
All those yesterdays
All those yesterdays
All those paper plates
Sammi: Wanna just break up?
The fact of getting better seats due to seniority is a way of rewarding the 'customer' for his/her loyalty. Just like other businesses, stores, etc. those these obviously do this in a different manner, for example loyalty cards with special deals, airmiles, etc. Or, closer to home, O2 customers getting a presale on tix when bands play one of their venues. Same concept - different kind of 'business'.
Laid down on an unequal foundation? Not really. Fair? For some yes, for others no.....
Technically not quite the same - you don't get a better chance/better tickets through o2 if you've been their customer for longer. Similarly, you don't get more airmiles etc the longer you've been part of the reward scheme.
Getting a little off topic I know, but the argument of 'I've paid $10-$25 dollars a year for 17 years so deserve a good seat' only means a max of $425 spent on membership fees. I'm sure there are people who have only been a member for a few years who have spent more in total (yearly sub, tickets, merch etc) through 10c than some people who've been members for many more years and only been to the odd show or bought the odd t-shirt. Depends on what criteria 'loyalty' and 'deserving' is judged.
Arguments for and against both views, but fairest way would be completely random lottery for all 10c members. With the possibility (to somewhat satisfy the seniority base) of having say 1 entry into the lottery for every continuous year's membership (obviously still with maximum of one pair of tickets per show).
Anyway, regardless of the bruises don't think I'd want to change GA. I did however like the separate section at the front of some shows in 06 and 07, I think that helped to reduce the crush quite a bit. So maybe have the floor split into 2-3 sections only allowing so many people into each one (first come first served obviously).
http://www.strummersphotography.com
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EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
It's a reward scheme, however they want to administer it. 10C choose to base it on seniority, airmiles is based on amounts purchased, etc. So you in a way you are right, TECHNICALLY it is not quite the same because the criteria they base themselves on is different, but overall, a reward scheme is a reward scheme!
Whether you like this reward scheme is personal preference.
R.i.p. My Dad - May 28, 2007
R.i.p. Black Tail (cat) - Sept. 20, 2008
Even though I prefer GA I have to agree with this, there are always some out there who don't care that people have waited patiently and respectfully in line and in the crowd and just push and elbow their way in front of the people who've waited for hours!
http://www.strummersphotography.com
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