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New York Giants Official Thread

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    Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,598
    igotid88 said:
    I stopped watching at halftime and stopped following after the 4th and goal from the 1, but saw an article about how the odds are better for winning the game if you go for 2 there.
    i saw that but this is a team that has trouble getting a td from that area.
    Fair...like I said, I went to sleep after the 4th and goal from the 1, so yeah, I'm with you.
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    PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,221
    igotid88 said:
    How about Eli trying two QB sneaks and killing the clock?

    He was basically moon walking trying to feebily get in. He had to know that was not in his skill set.
    that was a call from the sidelines
     it wouldn't have been the worst call from the sidelines: going for '2' to be down by 6 when going for the extra point puts you down by 7? What kind of moron makes that call?
    Doug Pederson got praised for doing the same thing a few weeks ago against the Vikings.
    Praise came because they converted successfully....its really stupid coaching, and the league is rife with stupid coaching this season.
    This weekend we rock Portland
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    Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,598
    Poncier said:
    igotid88 said:
    How about Eli trying two QB sneaks and killing the clock?

    He was basically moon walking trying to feebily get in. He had to know that was not in his skill set.
    that was a call from the sidelines
     it wouldn't have been the worst call from the sidelines: going for '2' to be down by 6 when going for the extra point puts you down by 7? What kind of moron makes that call?
    Doug Pederson got praised for doing the same thing a few weeks ago against the Vikings.
    Praise came because they converted successfully....its really stupid coaching, and the league is rife with stupid coaching this season.
    Is it stupid if based on past data you are more likely to win the game by going for 2?  I get the math makes it sound bad, but if the data says you are more likely to win the game, how can it be a bad decision?
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    I'd need to see the data that says going for two instead of 1 (when you've just scored a touchdown to make it 20-12) is a solid move.

    The logic is obviously that you are expecting/hoping for some of these things to happen:
    1. Your team is going to score another TD (which it had to do).
    2. If you fail on the 'current' 2 point conversion... you can try going for 2 again (to tie) on your subsequent TD conversion.
    3. If you can convert the 2 point conversion... two field goals gets you into OT (in the event your next drive stalls).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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    I'd need to see the data that says going for two instead of 1 (when you've just scored a touchdown to make it 20-12) is a solid move.

    The logic is obviously that you are expecting/hoping for some of these things to happen:
    1. Your team is going to score another TD (which it had to do).
    2. If you fail on the 'current' 2 point conversion... you can try going for 2 again (to tie) on your subsequent TD conversion.
    3. If you can convert the 2 point conversion... two field goals gets you into OT (in the event your next drive stalls).
    The data doesn’t take into account all of the intangibles in play at the moment, injuries, player personnel on both sides of the ball, wind direction and speed, field conditions, quality of play of the teams to that point in the game. That’s where coaching comes in with the help of the data. I remember Belichick giving up the safety and taking his chances with getting the ball back with enough time to score a TD. I thought he was absolutely out of his mind. They’re starting to merge all that data. Jobs in crunching numbers.
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    Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,598
    I'd need to see the data that says going for two instead of 1 (when you've just scored a touchdown to make it 20-12) is a solid move.

    The logic is obviously that you are expecting/hoping for some of these things to happen:
    1. Your team is going to score another TD (which it had to do).
    2. If you fail on the 'current' 2 point conversion... you can try going for 2 again (to tie) on your subsequent TD conversion.
    3. If you can convert the 2 point conversion... two field goals gets you into OT (in the event your next drive stalls).
    So yeah, basically your chances are as follows and it seems to come down to the fact that OT is still a bit of a crap shoot, right?  Seems to be all about avoiding OT.  Idk.

    1. Score 2 TDs, convert the first, kick the 2nd and win
    2. Score 2 TDs, kick both points + win in OT
    3. Score 2 TDs, don't convert 2 on the first, convert the 2nd + go to OT and win
    4. Score TD, convert 2, kick two field goals + win in OT.

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    igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,322
    These numbers are based on years of games. But for a 16 game schedule I don't think it works like in baseball where you have 162 to work with. And like what was stated with bad o line and tight coverage. I don't know how the numbers are that much better?
    I miss igotid88
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    Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,598
    All I am saying is that it may not be as an egregious decision as it seemed. I don't disagree with what you're saying.  That said. you have any confident in that team winning in OT either?
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    igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,322
    All I am saying is that it may not be as an egregious decision as it seemed. I don't disagree with what you're saying.  That said. you have any confident in that team winning in OT either?
    like I said earlier the Falcons most likely win on 80 yard pass td with .01 left. That's how much bad luck we had this season
    I miss igotid88
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    njnancynjnancy Northern New Jersey Posts: 5,096
    igotid88 said:
    I stopped watching at halftime and stopped following after the 4th and goal from the 1, but saw an article about how the odds are better for winning the game if you go for 2 there.
    i saw that but this is a team that has trouble getting a td from that area.
    red zone has not been our friend. 

     
    Nice cover last night, gents. Well done, and thank you. 
    You are welcome - they even helped this Giant's fan in the last seconds last night. And that would be ma'am. :bee:
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    igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,322
    best case scenario the Giants traded Apple to get Peterson. I know wishful thinking.
    I miss igotid88
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    The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,261
    igotid88 said:
    best case scenario the Giants traded Apple to get Peterson. I know wishful thinking.
    I’ll say....
    chinese-happy.jpg
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    PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,221
    I'd need to see the data that says going for two instead of 1 (when you've just scored a touchdown to make it 20-12) is a solid move.

    The logic is obviously that you are expecting/hoping for some of these things to happen:
    1. Your team is going to score another TD (which it had to do).
    2. If you fail on the 'current' 2 point conversion... you can try going for 2 again (to tie) on your subsequent TD conversion.
    3. If you can convert the 2 point conversion... two field goals gets you into OT (in the event your next drive stalls).
    So yeah, basically your chances are as follows and it seems to come down to the fact that OT is still a bit of a crap shoot, right?  Seems to be all about avoiding OT.  Idk.

    1. Score 2 TDs, convert the first, kick the 2nd and win
    2. Score 2 TDs, kick both points + win in OT
    3. Score 2 TDs, don't convert 2 on the first, convert the 2nd + go to OT and win
    4. Score TD, convert 2, kick two field goals + win in OT.

    Score 2 TD's fail on both 2 point conversions, lose in regulation.
    This weekend we rock Portland
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    The Giants haven't been a good team in years.  Even when they won the Super Bowls they were lucky and got hot.  They seem to win SB's when they are a wildcard.

    When is the team going to realize that Manning is not the future?  I figured it was last year but nope...
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    igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,322
    edited October 2018
    Damon Harrison traded to the Lions for a 5th round
    Post edited by igotid88 on
    I miss igotid88
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    eddieceddiec Posts: 3,835
    igotid88 said:
    Damon Harrison traded to the Lions
    Saw that.
    It's a yard sale.
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    PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,221
    Janoris Jenkins could be next, though the contract could be an impediment.
    This weekend we rock Portland
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    igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,322
    I feel like this season could have turned around. Like I said we were losing close games. Why couldn't they trade for an offensive linemen?
    I miss igotid88
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    PoncierPoncier Posts: 16,221
    igotid88 said:
    I feel like this season could have turned around. 
    Geno Smith isn't there to save the season this year.
    This weekend we rock Portland
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    Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,598
    igotid88 said:
    I feel like this season could have turned around. Like I said we were losing close games. Why couldn't they trade for an offensive linemen?
    They’re not one piece away. These are good moves man 
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    igotid88igotid88 Posts: 27,322
    Obviously the record is what it is. But my point is they were easily 1 bad play or call from being 5-2. That's why I felt it could turn around.
    I miss igotid88
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    Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,598
    igotid88 said:
    Obviously the record is what it is. But my point is they were easily 1 bad play or call from being 5-2. That's why I felt it could turn around.
    Yeah, I don't mildly agree with that. They have had some bad luck for sure, but they are a looooooonng way from 5-2. 
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    igotid88 said:
    I feel like this season could have turned around. Like I said we were losing close games. Why couldn't they trade for an offensive linemen?
    They’re not one piece away. These are good moves man 
    I agree. I think they should keep going too. Build around Barkley.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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    igotid88 said:
    Obviously the record is what it is. But my point is they were easily 1 bad play or call from being 5-2. That's why I felt it could turn around.
    igotid88 said:
    I feel like this season could have turned around. Like I said we were losing close games. Why couldn't they trade for an offensive linemen?
    They’re not one piece away. These are good moves man 
    I agree. I think they should keep going too. Build around Barkley.
    Y'all are nuts.  They need to rebuild.

    So has anyone looked at it like this:

    New coach wanted to give Eli the benefit of the doubt and use him to try and win.  He isn't winning and can't so it's time to move on and rebuild hence the sell off.

    The Giants have a good RB and WR locked up for a few years so now the good drafting will have to come into play because this team isn't trading to fix all the holes that they have.
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    eddieceddiec Posts: 3,835
    igotid88 said:
    Obviously the record is what it is. But my point is they were easily 1 bad play or call from being 5-2. That's why I felt it could turn around.
    "you are what your record says you are"
    -Bill Parcels
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    njnancynjnancy Northern New Jersey Posts: 5,096
    edited October 2018
    The Giants haven't been a good team in years.  Even when they won the Super Bowls they were lucky and got hot.  They seem to win SB's when they are a wildcard.

    When is the team going to realize that Manning is not the future?  I figured it was last year but nope...

    Maybe every team that has made it into the Superbowl as a wildcard should give back their Super Bowl rings? You and I part company on this opinion. There were years that Eli held the team together when they were wracked with injuries. Does he have problems the last few years, yeah, but the Giants 'problem' cannot be held out as Eli, Eli, Eli. And when we won Superbowls, we won through skill and luck - the same as any other team. I can't believe that we're going to go back and say that they sucked when they won Superbowls. No. I do not agree.

    And Manning signed a multi year contract so that he could finish out his career as a Giant. But let's bench him before that and the team will be so much better? Sounds like a MacAdoo move. 

    And i do not know why I am in your quote with you. :i_dunno:
    Post edited by njnancy on
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    Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,598
    I for one couldn’t give half a fuck how good the giants were over a 5 month period the 2 times they beat the patriots. 2 super bowl wins is 2 super bowl wins, so eat a fat one. Two of the better nights of my life at that
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    Cliffy6745Cliffy6745 Posts: 33,598
    Justin her-Bert clap clap clap clap clap

    He can’t wear 10 obviously 
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    njnancynjnancy Northern New Jersey Posts: 5,096
    I for one couldn’t give half a fuck how good the giants were over a 5 month period the 2 times they beat the patriots. 2 super bowl wins is 2 super bowl wins, so eat a fat one. Two of the better nights of my life at that
    Denying the Pats a perfect season was sweet. 
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    igotid88 said:
    Obviously the record is what it is. But my point is they were easily 1 bad play or call from being 5-2. That's why I felt it could turn around.
    igotid88 said:
    I feel like this season could have turned around. Like I said we were losing close games. Why couldn't they trade for an offensive linemen?
    They’re not one piece away. These are good moves man 
    I agree. I think they should keep going too. Build around Barkley.
    Y'all are nuts.  They need to rebuild.

    So has anyone looked at it like this:

    New coach wanted to give Eli the benefit of the doubt and use him to try and win.  He isn't winning and can't so it's time to move on and rebuild hence the sell off.

    The Giants have a good RB and WR locked up for a few years so now the good drafting will have to come into play because this team isn't trading to fix all the holes that they have.

    I was agreeing with Cliffy and the trades. They do need to rebuild (around Barkley). Keep Odell.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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