England and the world cup

Puck78

Last week me and other people were labelled as "ignorant" because we defined "hooligans" as "violent English football supporters". Although the definition can be wrong, here's one recent example
http://football.guardian.co.uk/worldcup2006/story/0,,1796292,00.html

know1

I have seen some news stories and heard some things recently that make me think that some Europeans should be very ashamed of their fans. It's one thing to just be rowdy and taunt the other team's athletic ability, but it's another to be racist and discuss other politically incorrect issues that have nothing to do with a soccer game.

London Calling

know1 wrote:

I have seen some news stories and heard some things recently that make me think the British should be very ashamed of their fans. It's one thing to just be rowdy and taunt the other team's athletic ability, but it's another to be racist and discuss other politically incorrect issues that have nothing to do with a soccer game.

Believe me i am ashamed of the British fans. I dont understand why they keep bringing up world war 2. The people that bring it up are the most racist backwards people i have ever met, so much for defeating fascism.

dunkman

know1 wrote:

I have seen some news stories and heard some things recently that make me think the British should be very ashamed of their fans. It's one thing to just be rowdy and taunt the other team's athletic ability, but it's another to be racist and discuss other politically incorrect issues that have nothing to do with a soccer game.

that is the most ignorant thing i have ever read on here... does anyone across there study geography for fuck's sake :mad: :(

Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales all have seperate football teams with seperate fans...

Scotlands fans have been voted winners twice the best fans of World Cup Tournaments and have been runners up loads of times.

please do not label us in with those fucking primates below us who even fight amongst themselves...

i'm sorry Know1, i know you are American, but please change your comment to English fans...

dunkman

London Calling wrote:

Believe me i am ashamed of the British fans. I dont understand why they keep bringing up world war 2. The people that bring it up are the most racist backwards people i have ever met, so much for defeating fascism.

honestly... since when did we all become british?????

i want fuck all to do with Englands fans... change your comment as Scotlands (Wales&N.Irelands) fans are famously brilliant supporters and want nothing but fun and drink..

please dont associate my country with the thuggery of English supporters!!!!

dunkman

FANS BEHAVIOUR
WORLD CUP 1990 ITALY

SCOTLAND: 25,000 Scots fans spent a peaceful time in Italy with no-one being arrested during their 2 week spell.

ENGLAND: Hundreds arrested and deported as fans smash up Bologna and Rimini.


EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS 1992 SWEDEN

SCOTLAND: Fans win the 'Best Supporters' award. No-one arrested. 7 Scots got married. Because of the excellent relationship built up between the Scotland and Sweden supporters during and since EURO '92, the World Cup qualifying match against Sweden in November 1996 sees the Swedish fans seated in same stand as the main core of the Scotland support.

ENGLAND: 1500 fans deported after riots in Malmo.


EUROPEAN CHAMPIONSHIPS 1996 ENG****

SCOTLAND: 2nd place in UEFA good behaviour supporters awards.
Fans praised by chief constable of Birmingham.

ENGLAND: Trafalgar square - over 200 arrests, 40 cars smashed up, 7 houses damaged.

Bradford - 40 fans in pitched battle with police.

Hull - 11 arrests.

Basingstoke - 2 german tourists attacked and robbed.

Bedford - 300 hooligans on rampage.

Police attacked in Swindon and other disturbances all over the South East of England.


WORLD CUP 1998 FRANCE
SCOTLAND: No arrests. Best supporters award (again).

ENGLAND: Widespread civil disturbances Riots in Marseille result in a city wide curfew.

Pegasus

There's hooligans everywhere there's football...just seems to be more in England.

So yes, qualifying Hooligans as 'violent English football supporters' is incorrect.

for the record, I hate football so I'm in no way defending them
Rugby fans are the best

know1

dunkman1974 wrote:

that is the most ignorant thing i have ever read on here... does anyone across there study geography for fuck's sake :mad: :(

Scotland, England, Northern Ireland and Wales all have seperate football teams with seperate fans...

Scotlands fans have been voted winners twice the best fans of World Cup Tournaments and have been runners up loads of times.

please do not label us in with those fucking primates below us who even fight amongst themselves...

i'm sorry Know1, i know you are American, but please change your comment to English fans...

Whatever. I'm just an ignorant American so I used the term British incorrectly. When you get finished kicking your puppy around in anger over it, I'm sure you can forgive me.

Scarletstarlet

Lol,not only the americans suck in football, they suck in geoghrapy, too.

dunkman

know1 wrote:

Whatever. I'm just an ignorant American so I used the term British incorrectly. When you get finished kicking your puppy around in anger over it, I'm sure you can forgive me.

Thats ok my muslim friend... i forgive you. Just like Allah does.

The British term is used incorrectly, which is why i asked you to change it... its deeply insulting for me to read it... but if you dont change it then fair enough... have a happy Ramadan though my favourite Islam follower you

Heineken Helen

Pegasus wrote:

There's hooligans everywhere there's football...just seems to be more in England.

So yes, qualifying Hooligans as 'violent English football supporters' is incorrect.

for the record, I hate football so I'm in no way defending them
Rugby fans are the best

Absolutely

And dunk, let's hope they've never seen a Celtic V Rangers match

Puck78

let's get over the confusion between the terms English-British: he already apologised with you. Let's go back to the topic.

stu gee

First of all ,its only a small minority of england's fans who spoil it for the rest of them really, and they shouldn't be all labled the same 'english hooligans'.

It just appears that this hooligan element of theirs cannot handle their alcohol very well and feel the overwhelming need to take out their aggression on any number of white plastic chairs.

Im not encouraging violence at all but very rarely when you see the hooligans fighting do you really see a fair one on one square go between two people, its all very much cowardly hit and run type stuff, like smashing up the local coffee shops, which obviously proves how brave they are. They are just useless thugs needing locking up, or perhaps national service, where they can prove how hard they really are.

The thing i dont understand is why they are doing this, because it certainly cannot be national pride. When they got dumped out of euro 96 which was actually held in england, the first thing these 'fans' did was trash england's capital.

Heineken Helen

stu gee wrote:

First of all ,its only a small minority of england's fans who spoil it for the rest of them really, and they shouldn't be all labled the same 'english hooligans'.

Yep, generalising is horrible... even when it's towards the hooligans. I feel a bit sorry for the genuine English fans abroad who make up the minority.

know1

dunkman1974 wrote:

Thats ok my muslim friend... i forgive you. Just like Allah does.

The British term is used incorrectly, which is why i asked you to change it... its deeply insulting for me to read it... but if you dont change it then fair enough... have a happy Ramadan though my favourite Islam follower you

I changed it to Europeans because that's actually more accurate to the few stories that I had seen.

Heineken Helen

know1 wrote:

I changed it to Europeans because that's actually more accurate to the few stories that I had seen.

Now I resent that... you will NEVER ever see the hooligan aspect at a soccer match in the republic of Ireland... EVER!!!!!

stu gee

Heineken Helen wrote:

Absolutely

And dunk, let's hope they've never seen a Celtic V Rangers match

A rangers vs celtic match is a nightmare in glasgow. I love watching the games but i would rarely go on a night out if they had played that day. A guy i know was killed after the last one, and there is always loads of fighting after a game.

Scottish fans are always brilliant when they are abroad but dont mind beating the shit out of one another at home!

dunkman

Puck78 wrote:

let's get over the confusion between the terms English-British: he already apologised with you. Let's go back to the topic.

he didnt apologise though... he said "whatever" and then something about kicking out puppies or something!!

Heineken Helen

stu gee wrote:

A rangers vs celtic match is a nightmare in glasgow. I love watching the games but i would rarely go on a night out if they had played that day. A guy i know was killed after the last one, and there is always loads of fighting after a game.

Scottish fans are always brilliant when they are abroad but dont mind beating the shit out of one another at home!

It's pretty nuts! I just don't get that... I mean when we're abroad we pretty much do anything for eachother just cos we're Irish - it's like automatically having this family that you don't actually know. So I'm guessing that's the same with Scotland?

Heineken Helen

dunkman1974 wrote:

he didnt apologise though... he said "whatever" and then something about kicking out puppies or something!!

I think some people don't really get it dunk... yet just TRY calling them Canadian and see how 'whatever' goes after that!

dunkman

stu gee wrote:

First of all ,its only a small minority of england's fans who spoil it for the rest of them really, and they shouldn't be all labled the same 'english hooligans'.

i disagree...

Iraqi insurgents
Irish Terrorists
English Hooligans
Danish Pastries


they are hooligans, and they are English... so it appears to be correct to call them 'English hooligans'

and Know1... not all European teams/fans have a hooligan element.. in fact very few european nations have a thug element in their football following... i would put money on it that the footage you see across there when they discuss hooliganism will be English predominantly!!

dunkman

Heineken Helen wrote:

It's pretty nuts! I just don't get that... I mean when we're abroad we pretty much do anything for eachother just cos we're Irish - it's like automatically having this family that you don't actually know. So I'm guessing that's the same with Scotland?

absolutely... just like you gravitated towards the Irish fans at the Astoria.. i instantly felt i was at one with the Scottish lads once i met them..

same abroad... in Spain as soon as i heard a Scots voice i would start speaking to them, how you doing type of stuff.. but we tend to stick together, and our fans are genuinely famous for it!! Tartan Army!! you can see that we have won FIFA awards for our fans.. we travel well!!

Heineken Helen

dunkman1974 wrote:

absolutely... just like you gravitated towards the Irish fans at the Astoria.. i instantly felt i was at one with the Scottish lads once i met them..

same abroad... in Spain as soon as i heard a Scots voice i would start speaking to them, how you doing type of stuff.. but we tend to stick together, and our fans are genuinely famous for it!! Tartan Army!! you can see that we have won FIFA awards for our fans.. we travel well!!

Oh we've won FIFA awards too and we're pretty famous for it

But yeh, I'm the same, I hear the Irish accent and I have to talk to them, if they haven't spoken to me first.

Huh, so you're saying I made you uncomfortable?

Irish Al

Heineken Helen wrote:

Now I resent that... you will NEVER ever see the hooligan aspect at a soccer match in the republic of Ireland... EVER!!!!!

Sorry Hells but have you ever been to a Dublin derby match in soccer......there is serious trouble at those games, bohs v rovers, bohs v shels, pats get involved as well and then when they travel they try to start a row. Bohs always try to kick off in drogheda

Heineken Helen

dunkman1974 wrote:

i disagree...

Iraqi insurgents
Irish Terrorists
English Hooligans
Danish Pastries


they are hooligans, and they are English... so it appears to be correct to call them 'English hooligans'

Good point!

Everyone fucking generalises when it comes to us... so I think it's time for us to be just as ignorant back. We're English until we blow up the English and then we're terrorists... kinda like the Chechens... we all know they're Russian right?

Heineken Helen

Irish Al wrote:

Sorry Hells but have you ever been to a Dublin derby match in soccer......there is serious trouble at those games, bohs v rovers, bohs v shels, pats get involved as well and then when they travel they try to start a row. Bohs always try to kick off in drogheda

Nah, it's never been big enough to make it to the news - well maybe last year I think I heard something but nobody's been killed so it doesn't count.

Although, have ya tried standing on hill 16 when Dublin's playing... and support the opposition? :eek:

know1

dunkman1974 wrote:

i disagree...

Iraqi insurgents
Irish Terrorists
English Hooligans
Danish Pastries


they are hooligans, and they are English... so it appears to be correct to call them 'English hooligans'

and Know1... not all European teams/fans have a hooligan element.. in fact very few european nations have a thug element in their football following... i would put money on it that the footage you see across there when they discuss hooliganism will be English predominantly!!

When I changed it, I added the word "some". I'm sorry you're so bent out of shape by it.

The biggest thing that bothers me, however, is that you similarly paint Christians with just as broad a brush in a negative way. Since we're being specific, what's the specific definition of hypocrite?

Irish Al

Heineken Helen wrote:

Nah, it's never been big enough to make it to the news - well maybe last year I think I heard something but nobody's been killed so it doesn't count.

Although, have ya tried standing on hill 16 when Dublin's playing... and support the opposition? :eek:

Fair play...I'm not that brave/stupid? :eek:

dunkman

know1 wrote:

When I changed it, I added the word "some". I'm sorry you're so bent out of shape by it.

The biggest thing that bothers me, however, is that you similarly paint Christians with just as broad a brush in a negative way. Since we're being specific, what's the specific definition of hypocrite?

i was bent out of shape by it... just as you would be if you were constantly referred to as a Canadian muslim fanatic... which you are clearly not. Hence my grievance when you labelled English thugs British... cant paint everyone with the same brush.

on the Christian point... i use my broad brush as i feel 100% of all Christians are wasting their time praying and such-like... so by me slating christianity or any religion for that matter i'm at least consistent and accurate with my own personal view point... whereas you labelling a minority of English thugs a repsresentation of BRITIAN, then i take umbrage

know1

dunkman1974 wrote:

i was bent out of shape by it... just as you would be if you were constantly referred to as a Canadian muslim fanatic... which you are clearly not. Hence my grievance when you labelled English thugs British... cant paint everyone with the same brush.

on the Christian point... i use my broad brush as i feel 100% of all Christians are wasting their time praying and such-like... so by me slating christianity or any religion for that matter i'm at least consistent and accurate with my own personal view point... whereas you labelling a minority of English thugs a repsresentation of BRITIAN, then i take umbrage

Ahh...it's OK when you do it, just not when anybody else does it.

Praying is a waste of time, but watching soccer matches isn't? OK....

dunkman

Heineken Helen wrote:

Oh we've won FIFA awards too and we're pretty famous for it

oh i'm sure you have... i didnt say otherwise!!

although, i know about football and you claim you dont so heres the hard facts:-

Scotland's fans have won more awards for their conduct than any OTHER nation!.. Scotlands Tartan Army (as they are known amongst the footballing world) are far more recognised than any other nation for their good behaviour and fun loving nature than any other travelling fans*. This is undisputed.


*World Soccer poll May 2004 edition