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Hamas recognizes Israel
OutOfBreath
Posts: 1,804
It seems now that negotiations between Fatah and Hamas has led to an agreement of the founding of a palestinian state alongside Israel. They have been negotiating for some time, with the goal of ending international organizations' boycott of the palestinian authority.
This is good news.
(edit) read it on a norwegian paper, but here it is from bbc: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5121164.stm
Peace
Dan
This is good news.
(edit) read it on a norwegian paper, but here it is from bbc: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5121164.stm
Peace
Dan
"YOU [humans] NEED TO BELIEVE IN THINGS THAT AREN'T TRUE. HOW ELSE CAN THEY BECOME?" - Death
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
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Dear God....is it possible that we can 100% agree on something?
Actually we agree 100% on a lot of things, but we never debate our similarities.
Peace
Dan
"Every judgment teeters on the brink of error. To claim absolute knowledge is to become monstrous. Knowledge is an unending adventure at the edge of uncertainty." - Frank Herbert, Dune, 1965
Bullshit! Come on, say something silly like this:
"Isreal is nothing more a product of the Palestinians' perception."
or something like this:
"There is no right or wrong, there are only norms."
Damnit, I must take issue!!!!
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
What do you mean by viable?
Israel is about to bring the smacketh down on palestinians...theres no peace coming anytime soon.
Yippee, more death!!! Will it be on pay-per-view?
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth.
-Oscar Wilde
And do you revel in this fact as your tone implies?
A nation cannot fear.
As an American, I'll tell you that I fear nothing about peace in the Middle East.
All they have to do is give the soldier back..if not than the palestinians should be expecting a shelling.
Here's to hoping they do. And likewise on the Israeli side. But something tells me that's the last thing you want to happen.
i think peace in the middle east = next to impossible. I'd love to be wrong, really i would.
Most people on both sides of this conflict wish to see some kind of resolution but for some it seems that fighting is the only way they know how to behave........ and that comment is aimed at both sides not at the Palestinians alone....
International press has now picked up and shown across the globe pictures of the Israeli soldier kidnapped by those evil Palestinian terrorists yet in the past week or so over twenty Palestinians including children have been killed by on going IOF violence yet there are no pictures of their faces or their parents calling for justice and restraint on global media .........
However regardless of how this current story plays out I'm sure it will not be the end of this conflict - it will continue as long as people continue to draw blood ........... and it's just a pity there really doesn't seem to be a way out for the beseiged Palestinians nor the battle hungry IOF.
how will the state finance itself? will it become another east timor for example?
Have we lost our way tonight?
Have we lost our hope to sorrow?
Feels like were all alone
Running further from what’s right
And there are no more heroes to follow
So what are we becoming?
Where did we go wrong?
The way we taught them to finance themselves....by begging.
Probably.
when it hits you, you feel to pain.
So brutalize me with music.”
~ Bob Marley
Most antizionists are antisemites
Hmmm ... Maybe. A call for an Isreali withdrawal to pre-1967 borders must involve at least a tacit acknowledgement that Israel exists. I too am uncomfortable with the "right to resettle" portion of the document, although there is no way the Isrealis would ever agree to some sort of blanket right to settle in their country. Due process woul have to be observed regarding immigration.
the issue has never been whether or not the Palestinians acknowledge that Israel exists. it's whether or not they acknowledge Israel's right to exist. this document is worthless political posturing to regain some of the sympathy that the Palestinians have lost in the past year.
The actual wording of the document includes the following:
"The Palestinian people … desires the liberation of its lands and the realization of its right to liberty, return, independence and self-definition, including the right to establish an independent state with holy Jerusalem as its capital on all the territory occupied in 1967"
in other words, a state in this territory is merely one part of the broader goal of "the liberation of [Palestinian] lands." this is a reincarnation of the PLO's 1974 "phased plan," under which any "liberated" territory would serve as a base for pursuing Israel's ultimate destruction.
both the documents' authors and other Hamas spokesmen have stated this explicitly:
on June 6th, Abdel Khaleq Natsche, who signed the document for Hamas, and Bassam al-Sa'adi, who signed for Islamic Jihad, issued the following clarification: "We scorn the attempts to attach nonexistent content to the document, and therefore, we emphasize that it does not contain any declaration or hint of recognition of the occupation state and does not contain any call for this."
Mohammed Abu Tir, a senior Hamas parliamentarian, also made this point in a subsequent interview with Haaretz on June 8th: "Hamas has no problem with the document's demand for a Palestinian state in all the territories occupied in 1967," but does not accept its "recognition of international decisions that indirectly mean recognition of Israel."
Most antizionists are antisemites
by Hujayra al 'Arabi
Dedicated to my brothers and sisters in Resistance in Iraq and in the Arab Nation
I do not want to die. I am not in love with death. I am not even 'half in love with easeful death' like the English poet. I want to live. I want to have a home filled with children, and I still want to be a doctor. From the age of about six, I dreamed of becoming a doctor, of being able to save lives. I wanted to do something real that would save the lives of my people.
And yet, I see now that there are many ways of saving lives and that taking lives can be a part of the process of saving lives. That is where I am now, preparing to take lives in order to save my people.
The enemy tries to say that human bombs are cowards, that we want to die, that we do this in order to go to a paradise where virgins will fulfill our every wish. Well, for a start, I can prove them wrong on the virgin issue. I am a woman, and I have no interest whatsoever in being pleasured by other virgins, thank you very much. The fact of the matter is that this is nothing more than stupid propaganda, like so many of the enemy's lies. The young men who become martyrs for our cause are not doing so in order to win virgins in the hereafter. Nor do we do this out of hatred for the enemy, although the hatred is a thousand times deserved. We do it for love of the homeland and for love of our people.
The Prophet Isa, Peace be upon him, said that there is no greater love than the love of a shepherd who is willing to lay down his life for his sheep. I agree that this is a very great act of love, and this is the act of love committed by every human bomb. We give our lives for our people, for our future, to try to turn a tide of destruction that threatens to sweep away not only our identity and heritage, but our very future. Sometimes engineers will use a bomb to attempt to change the course of a waterway. That is what the human bomb is doing, using a bomb to try to change the course of a terrible flood that day by day continues to sweep away our homes, our families and our hopes for any future. If we can make any impression at all upon this flood, if little by little, we can slow down its progress, force it into a different path and ultimately stop its flow completely, then we will have succeeded in a very great act of love.
One human bomb may be no more than a voice crying in the wilderness, but many human bombs can change the course of history, strip it of a hundred years of lies and deceit and bring the vision of a future back to Palestine.
Those who listen to the enemy propaganda should ask themselves one question: what does it take to make an ordinary boy or girl into a human bomb? In a different life, in ordinary circumstances, all of us could have been quite ordinary boys and girls. Do not mistake the human bomb for anything other than an ordinary human being forced by circumstance to act in an extraordinary fashion.
It is not easy to become a human bomb. When there is a choice between the high road and the low road, most will opt for the easier of the two. It is often easier for human nature to make excuses for betrayal and collaboration with the enemy than to face reality and know that integrity often requires the ultimate sacrifice.
It is a sad fact that the Zionists continue to be successful in hunting down the leaders of our resistance only because they are betrayed by our own people, by people whose vision is limited to the immediate situation or threat that confronts them. Even though some collaborators may be no more than people who fear for the safety of their families, or who are desperate for food and a safe shelter, collaboration is the ugliest and most despicable crime against our people. To aid the enemy, whether out of fear or greed is to BECOME the enemy. Furthermore, collaborators and those who do nothing whatsoever, trying to maintain a low profile in order to remain 'safe', must realise that there is no safe shelter as long as the enemy triumphs in our land. I will say it again: the crime of trading the life of your brother or sister for your own illusive safety is one of the worst, whatever its motivation. The man or woman who betrays a freedom fighter for gold or to save his or her skin deserves the punishment of death, for he or she has more power to harm our cause than our avowed enemy.
Cowards and collaborators must learn that it is far better to take the high road and meet death on our own terms than to cower in the shadows until the enemy drags us out to to the slaughter. The result, in physical terms, is the same, but how different the result in its effects upon others and upon the future!
more here...
I could declare myself a "normal guy" and then go out and kill a bunch of people ... That doesn't prove that I am normal.
Anyhow, still an interesting read ...
it is interesting to hear that perspective, and its not that i necessarily agree with it all, but i know i would be a very different person growing up in palestine (or israel) than i am for having grown up in a small massachusetts town where there has never been a single murder since i was born.
I probably would too, I agree. Not sure what I would ultimately do if my fiance or other loved one was killed by a suicide bomber ... Or by an Isreali tank. I can see how people would become "fighters" or "insurgents". I still find the ideas of suicide bombing and terrorism in general (killing civilians) to be quite alien, but clearly many people on both sides in this conflict do not. You are right, who knows?
A. Im not a jesus nut
B. Palestinians couldnt keep themselves afloat if they tried. Israel will always be their scape goat for when they fuck up.....same as the U.S government when people sit on their ass all day and dont want to get jobs.
Ever see a map of the occupied territories? Ever wonder what pieces of land Israel has been slowly occupying the last 30 years or so? Water is crucial for any economy, especially in that area...prime agricultural land...they aren't randomly taking pieces from the Palestinians, they are taking resources...and cordoning off the arabs....separating them, inhibiting them from creating a cohesive united people.
Give them land, give them water, leave them the fuck alone and they'll do just fine.