Is Israel's recent actions in Gaza a war crime?

mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
edited July 2006 in A Moving Train
I found this article in the Christian Science Monitor, can't be acquised of using a biased source, that I found interesting. At what point does Israel's actions go from a rescue mission to free a soldier to a war crime?

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/dailyUpdate.html
"When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
Post edited by Unknown User on
«1

Comments

  • CommyCommy Posts: 4,984
    mammasan wrote:
    I found this interesting article in the Christian Science Monitor, can't be acquised of using a biased source, that I found interesting. At what point does Israel's actions go from a rescue mission to free a soldier to a war crime?

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/dailyUpdate.html

    Well, when you send tanks into civilian areas and fire into crowds and buildings-I think that's about hte time its considered a war crime.

    So basically the second they acted...
  • hailhailkchailhailkc Posts: 582
    Commy wrote:
    Well, when you send tanks into civilian areas and fire into crowds and buildings-I think that's about hte time its considered a war crime.

    So basically the second they acted...

    So you're telling me that you know for a fact that Israeli tanks are driving into civilian neighborhoods, finding large groups of innocent bystanders, and then firing tank shells into them on purpose? Correct? And if so...please tell me where you're getting this information.

    I understand that needless deaths happen (on both sides) of this on-going conflict...but really...let's keep things in perspective here.
    MOSSAD NATO Alphabet Stations (E10)
    High Traffic ART EZI FTJ JSR KPA PCD SYN ULX VLB YHF
    Low Traffic CIO MIW
    Non Traffic ABC BAY FDU GBZ HNC NDP OEM ROV TMS ZWL
  • DPrival78DPrival78 CT Posts: 2,259
    i think israel is completely out of line here. bombing power plants is a clear violation of the geneva conventions, for one.

    a draft resolution was brought before the UN demanding that israel stop this offensive, pull out of gaza, and release the hamas officals they kidnapped. but of course the US opposed it, like they have with pretty much every other resolution condemning the actions of israel that has come before the UN in the past.
    i'm more a fan of popular bands.. like the bee-gees, pearl jam
  • polarispolaris Posts: 3,527
    the issue of war crimes comes in play only when you have combatants who respect life ... the most recent vote went down 27-11 ... lots of abstainers ...
  • thankyougrandmathankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    absolutly, it's disgusting to watch, at least the UN condemn the actions, hooooo hoooo....
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • thankyougrandmathankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    hailhailkc wrote:
    So you're telling me that you know for a fact that Israeli tanks are driving into civilian neighborhoods, finding large groups of innocent bystanders, and then firing tank shells into them on purpose? Correct? And if so...please tell me where you're getting this information.

    I understand that needless deaths happen (on both sides) of this on-going conflict...but really...let's keep things in perspective here.

    Yes there are tanks in the Gaza bank, maybe not firing at civilians, but they make sure nobody get a decent night of sleep, they showed an old man being forced out of his house by his kids because the man was refusing to leave even if the Isreali tanks were at shooting range of the town, i don't believe they are there to kill civilians, but when you're a Palestinians i guess seeing Isreali tanks in your backyard is not exactly an indication of a peacefull weekend at the beach, they're terrorized by the Isreali army, therefore you could probably call the Isreali army terrorist.

    If you add to this the fact that Isreal bombed the PM headquarters, a university and electrical plant, and having control over the food and gas that enters the Gaza banks, plus the night flying over civilians house to disturb the sleep of civillians (up to Syria), i mean i don't understand why this is accepted worldwide, it might be me who have a problem but it is just one more humanity stupidity in my opinion (to accept and support the Israel illegal invasion of Palestinians territory). Anyway...

    edit: and unless i missed a thread, i'm surprise not more people are talking about it on this message board.
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    I guess I should post my opinion since I posted the article, don't want to be acquised of just posting some white noise. I completely support Israel right to find and rescue the kidnapped soldier, but I do believe that they are extremely close to crossing the line between rescue mission and just plain open hostility. I know that they are dealing with individuals who do not respect the sanctity of this soldier or any Israeli's life but Israel has to be above that or they become no better than the terrorists who abducted this soldier. That pretty much sums up my entire feeling about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. I have always believed that Israel had the right to defend itself and it's people from viceious bombings by Palestinian terrorists but at times it was hard to differentiate who was the terrorists because Israel would perpetrate acts just as horrorable as say Hamas. Just my $.02.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • thankyougrandmathankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    mammasan wrote:
    I guess I should post my opinion since I posted the article, don't want to be acquised of just posting some white noise. I completely support Israel right to find and rescue the kidnapped soldier, but I do believe that they are extremely close to crossing the line between rescue mission and just plain open hostility. I know that they are dealing with individuals who do not respect the sanctity of this soldier or any Israeli's life but Israel has to be above that or they become no better than the terrorists who abducted this soldier. That pretty much sums up my entire feeling about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. I have always believed that Israel had the right to defend itself and it's people from viceious bombings by Palestinian terrorists but at times it was hard to differentiate who was the terrorists because Israel would perpetrate acts just as horrorable as say Hamas. Just my $.02.

    Isreal is a criminal state by not respecting internation laws, if they want to defend themselves they have the right and the means to do so, but bombing an electrical facility, a university??? These acts are being sponsored by the State of Isreal, but they would be condemn by the international community if they would have been perpetrated by some radical islamist, anyway ranting again...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Isreal is a criminal state by not respecting internation laws, if they want to defend themselves they have the right and the means to do so, but bombing an electrical facility, a university??? These acts are being sponsored by the State of Isreal, but they would be condemn by the international community if they would have been perpetrated by some radical islamist, anyway ranting again...

    I agree with you that Israel is stepping over the line by bombing an electrical plant and a university. That is why I stated that Israel need to above acting like the very terrorists they are defending themselves from.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • PaperPlatesPaperPlates Posts: 1,745
    mammasan wrote:
    I found this article in the Christian Science Monitor, can't be acquised of using a biased source, that I found interesting. At what point does Israel's actions go from a rescue mission to free a soldier to a war crime?

    http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0706/dailyUpdate.html

    Depends who the judge and jury is.
    Why go home

    www.myspace.com/jensvad
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    Depends who the judge and jury is.

    Well for arguements sake let's say you are both.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    DPrival78 wrote:
    i think israel is completely out of line here. bombing power plants is a clear violation of the geneva conventions, for one.

    a draft resolution was brought before the UN demanding that israel stop this offensive, pull out of gaza, and release the hamas officals they kidnapped. but of course the US opposed it, like they have with pretty much every other resolution condemning the actions of israel that has come before the UN in the past.


    yesterday on NPR they had some official from Israel on and the host asked if destroying hte power plant wasn't 'collective punishment' punishing many more than were involved...she brought up the hospitals and schools and homes having no power and the official's reply was they could use generators!
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • thankyougrandmathankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    El_Kabong wrote:
    yesterday on NPR they had some official from Israel on and the host asked if destroying hte power plant wasn't 'collective punishment' punishing many more than were involved...she brought up the hospitals and schools and homes having no power and the official's reply was they could use generators!

    I also heard an israeli official speaking saying something like "when the police shut down power in a building to make an arrest, everyone get the power down", yeah she just forget to mention the difference between a building where people can get out and go to an hotel, and a complete state ...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • pjalive21pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    Commy wrote:
    Well, when you send tanks into civilian areas and fire into crowds and buildings-I think that's about hte time its considered a war crime.

    So basically the second they acted...

    what about the Palestinians who are shooting rockets over into Israel for fun?
  • thankyougrandmathankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    pjalive21 wrote:
    what about the Palestinians who are shooting rockets over into Israel for fun?

    they're terrorist, so?
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • pjalive21pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    El_Kabong wrote:
    yesterday on NPR they had some official from Israel on and the host asked if destroying hte power plant wasn't 'collective punishment' punishing many more than were involved...she brought up the hospitals and schools and homes having no power and the official's reply was they could use generators!


    hey at least they were honest, right?

    thats messed up
  • pjalive21pjalive21 St. Louis, MO Posts: 2,818
    they're terrorist, so?

    so because they are terrorist they shouldnt be held under the same accountability as the Israelies?

    so you are justifying their actions, because they are terrorist we should expect this from them and not hold them accountable?
  • i dont think there is much point to this discussion, because Israel has been violoting human rights for decades, with the support of the US government. Nothing is gonna change, unless the UN condemantion is backed up with punishemnt (sanctions etc etc.), but this wont happen because the US always veto and votes. i mean i've heard a lot of condmenationabout Iran wanting nuclear weapons, North Korea testing missiles from the US government, but how come Israel is allowed to do whatever it wants. Israel has a nuclear programme, violates human rights, regularly fires across international borders. Surely they are the destabilising factor in the MIddle East that we hear so much about.
    In not so many words the Israeli government (and those who support their actions) are a bunch of dicks.
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,452
    The palestinians started this incursion...what you reap is what you sow
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • RockinInCanadaRockinInCanada Posts: 2,016
    miller8966 wrote:
    The palestinians started this incursion...what you reap is what you sow

    I guess the same could be said if reprecussions came to American from Iraq I guess....which I would never like to see...but that statement bites both ways Miller....
  • FiveB247xFiveB247x Posts: 2,330
    Terrorists do not represent or work on behalf of the state of Palestine.. on the other hand, Israel's army works on behalf of the state of Israel... see the difference?
    CONservative governMENt

    Our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law-breaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. - Louis Brandeis
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,452
    I guess the same could be said if reprecussions came to American from Iraq I guess....which I would never like to see...but that statement bites both ways Miller....

    i see your logic..btu they kidnapped a soldier and were firing rockets into israeli neighborhoods. SO whatever.....
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • El_KabongEl_Kabong Posts: 4,141
    miller8966 wrote:
    The palestinians started this incursion...what you reap is what you sow


    they did?? i thought the intifada started when sharon marched into the 3rd holiest place in islam w/ 1,000 armed men??
    standin above the crowd
    he had a voice that was strong and loud and
    i swallowed his facade cos i'm so
    eager to identify with
    someone above the crowd
    someone who seemed to feel the same
    someone prepared to lead the way
  • miller8966miller8966 Posts: 1,452
    El_Kabong wrote:
    they did?? i thought the intifada started when sharon marched into the 3rd holiest place in islam w/ 1,000 armed men??


    the intifada could have been avoided if Arafrat would have accepted the terms offered to him before the intifada.

    He didnt...

    Now hes dead. lol
    America...the greatest Country in the world.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    miller8966 wrote:
    i see your logic..btu they kidnapped a soldier and were firing rockets into israeli neighborhoods. SO whatever.....

    Understood and Israel has every right to secure the freedom of that soldier and defend itself from terrorists, but at times they have themselves purpotrated acts of terrorism against the Palestinian people. Bombing civilian locations such as electric plants and universities is an act of terror. By doing this they are no better than the terrorist who blow themselves up on buses.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • MrBrianMrBrian Posts: 2,673
    mammasan wrote:
    I completely support Israel right to find and rescue the kidnapped soldier, but I do believe that they are extremely close to crossing the line between rescue mission and just plain open hostility. I know that they are dealing with individuals who do not respect the sanctity of this soldier or any Israeli's life but Israel has to be above that or they become no better than the terrorists who abducted this soldier. That pretty much sums up my entire feeling about the Palestinian/Israeli conflict. I have always believed that Israel had the right to defend itself and it's people from viceious bombings by Palestinian terrorists but at times it was hard to differentiate who was the terrorists because Israel would perpetrate acts just as horrorable as say Hamas. Just my $.02.

    So you would also completely support the palestianians trying to get back it's many soldiers and innocent civilians out of israeli hands? Israel has locked up many more palestinian people. So they (israel) should look at themselves first.

    anyway I kinda find that israels entire existance is a war crime.
  • mammasanmammasan Posts: 5,656
    MrBrian wrote:
    So you would also completely support the palestianians trying to get back it's many soldiers and innocent civilians out of israeli hands? Israel has locked up many more palestinian people. So they (israel) should look at themselves first.

    anyway I kinda find that israels entire existance is a war crime.

    I would completely support Palestine's right to retreive any of the improperly prisoned and/or kidnapped citizens/soldiers that are in Israeli hands.
    "When one gets in bed with government, one must expect the diseases it spreads." - Ron Paul
  • thankyougrandmathankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    pjalive21 wrote:
    so because they are terrorist they shouldnt be held under the same accountability as the Israelies?

    so you are justifying their actions, because they are terrorist we should expect this from them and not hold them accountable?

    Damn i'm tired of these "you're justifying their actions" blablabla, i'm not justifying, you sure love to put words in someone's mouth do you?

    I'm not supporting, i'm condemning, i also condemn Isreali attacks on electrical facility and such an invasion of a territory, again, they have ALL THE RIGHTS and means to defend themselves, they do not have the right to violate international laws.

    Do they have to bomb a university ? No, it's a war crime.

    Do they have to bomb some electrical facility? No, it's a war crime

    Disturbing civillians peace of mind by flying into foreign land at night and having a siege over a territory provisions, is also a war crime.

    Invade a foreign territory with tanks and planes without any kind of authorization, here's another crime.

    All this in the name of A STATE, not from some kind of terrorist group, you're the one who's making the comparison between both, i would expect a lot better from a government than from a terrorist group, you're just making them sounding the same, they apply to the same rule according to you, which i strongly disagree.

    They're far from defending themselves, it's an all out attack, and leading to more hate from Palestinians over Isreal and will lead to more isolate missile launch into Isreal etc etc, they need to take another approach (and fast), they already tried the terrorist approach to solve the terrorist problem and as of today, it didn't work. The part that make me sick, is the fact that we officially support these acts, makes me sick...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • thankyougrandmathankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    i dont think there is much point to this discussion, because Israel has been violoting human rights for decades, with the support of the US government. Nothing is gonna change, unless the UN condemantion is backed up with punishemnt (sanctions etc etc.), but this wont happen because the US always veto and votes. i mean i've heard a lot of condmenationabout Iran wanting nuclear weapons, North Korea testing missiles from the US government, but how come Israel is allowed to do whatever it wants. Israel has a nuclear programme, violates human rights, regularly fires across international borders. Surely they are the destabilising factor in the MIddle East that we hear so much about.
    In not so many words the Israeli government (and those who support their actions) are a bunch of dicks.

    agree.............
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
  • thankyougrandmathankyougrandma Posts: 1,182
    The fact is, if a country would support and armed Palestine like the world feed Isreal with an army, there wouldn't be any terrorist in the Gaza bank...
    "L'homme est né libre, et partout il est dans les fers"
    -Jean-Jacques Rousseau
Sign In or Register to comment.