I wouldn't consider the Grateful Dead the greatest american rock band ever.
I agree with the amazing accomplishments with this band, as well as their innovation.
The problem is, they lack recognizable hits that will sustain the band with the mainstream domestically and abroad. You could go to a juke box anywhere and let songs fly from Tom Petty, GnR, Aerosmith, Doors, etc... and probably will be able to let them fly for many decades.
"Hits" isnt the be-all-end-all, neither is straight-up album sales.... nor is live performance, influence, or international popularity.... But IMO the 'best American band' should possess all those things to some degree. I do think a void of recognizable/mainstream hits is a gigantic strike though.
Based on only the albums featuring John Frusciante I’d say hells yes! But there are the others so it’s debatable. They definitely meet the curriculum outlined by the OP though.
I wouldn't consider the Grateful Dead the greatest american rock band ever.
I agree with the amazing accomplishments with this band, as well as their innovation.
The problem is, they lack recognizable hits that will sustain the band with the mainstream domestically and abroad. You could go to a juke box anywhere and let songs fly from Tom Petty, GnR, Aerosmith, Doors, etc... and probably will be able to let them fly for many decades.
"Hits" isnt the be-all-end-all, neither is straight-up album sales.... nor is live performance, influence, or international popularity.... But IMO the 'best American band' should possess all those things to some degree. I do think a void of recognizable/mainstream hits is a gigantic strike though.
Agree with this completely. Massive respect for the Dead, but they do not have the record sales or hits ti be in the conversation for the GREATEST.
They can certainly be in the most respected/influential conversation, but to be the GREATEST, surely the average Joe on the street should be able to name a song of theirs?
I'll ride the wave where it takes me
*BEC, Brisbane, March 1995
*BEC, Brisbane, March 1998
*BEC, Brisbane, November 2006
*QSAC, Brisbane November 2009
*EV Solo, QPAC, Brisbane March 10 and 12 2011
*Big Day Out, Gold Coast, 19 Jan 2014
*EV Solo, QPAC, Brisbane, 22,23 & 25 Feb 2014
I wouldn't consider the Grateful Dead the greatest american rock band ever.
I agree with the amazing accomplishments with this band, as well as their innovation.
The problem is, they lack recognizable hits that will sustain the band with the mainstream domestically and abroad. You could go to a juke box anywhere and let songs fly from Tom Petty, GnR, Aerosmith, Doors, etc... and probably will be able to let them fly for many decades.
"Hits" isnt the be-all-end-all, neither is straight-up album sales.... nor is live performance, influence, or international popularity.... But IMO the 'best American band' should possess all those things to some degree. I do think a void of recognizable/mainstream hits is a gigantic strike though.
I would like to hear the counter-argument to this.
It won't come from me- I'm not a Dead fan, but I feel there could be at least a small argument there.
Let's see....longevity, influence, ground breaker, sales, originality, internationally recognized, causes (too many to name, but the dude did play at the MLK March on DC, the one where the good Dr gave his famous "I have a Dream" speech).....and you can still see him live, next month in Phoenix Arizona, when he kicks off the fall leg of his US tour......
Ladies and gentlemen, give it up,........ for Mr Bob Dylan
2006: Las Vegas, Nevada 2009: Salt Lake City, Utah 2012: Missoula, Montana 2014: Denver, Colorado 2018: Missoula, Montana
Pearl Jam, Bruce and the E Street Band, and Kiss are the US rock bands that come to mind when talking about revenue and longevity/hits/charisma... if Van Halen were still relevant they'd be in there... if Metallica were closer to rock than metal then they'd be there, too... and near the top of the class
But if we're narrowing to the live experience then PJ, Bruce and the Foos are the best I've ever seen on stage (VH was great... even with Sammy). Edge to PJ and Bruce because they mix the setlist every night... edge in the end to Bruce for being the quintessential rock god and playing 4 hour high-energy sets without an encore break every night at the the age of 67 (in 2016).
Plus, the last two Black Crowes albums DID NOT suck.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Philly I & II, 16
Denver 22
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,623
Let's see....longevity, influence, ground breaker, sales, originality, internationally recognized, causes (too many to name, but the dude did play at the MLK March on DC, the one where the good Dr gave his famous "I have a Dream" speech).....and you can still see him live, next month in Phoenix Arizona, when he kicks off the fall leg of his US tour......
Ladies and gentlemen, give it up,........ for Mr Bob Dylan
I definately agree, but you may get an argument that Dylan is neither a band or rock, but it won't come from me...
I wouldn't consider the Grateful Dead the greatest american rock band ever.
I agree with the amazing accomplishments with this band, as well as their innovation.
The problem is, they lack recognizable hits that will sustain the band with the mainstream domestically and abroad. You could go to a juke box anywhere and let songs fly from Tom Petty, GnR, Aerosmith, Doors, etc... and probably will be able to let them fly for many decades.
"Hits" isnt the be-all-end-all, neither is straight-up album sales.... nor is live performance, influence, or international popularity.... But IMO the 'best American band' should possess all those things to some degree. I do think a void of recognizable/mainstream hits is a gigantic strike though.
Agree with this completely. Massive respect for the Dead, but they do not have the record sales or hits ti be in the conversation for the GREATEST.
They can certainly be in the most respected/influential conversation, but to be the GREATEST, surely the average Joe on the street should be able to name a song of theirs?
I think the crux of the argument would be what defines the greatest in terms of music, and it seems we may be all analyzing it from our own personal point of view irrespective of the criteria outlined by the OP. Personally, I would never take the opinion of the Average Joe...I believe that oftentimes we exalt mediocrity. There are precious few artists that not only show brilliance, ingenuity, and influence that also seep into the mainstream consciousness that consequently brings success in album sales/hits/longevity. We have spoke of a few of them here, but we've also spoke of some, frankly, mediocre bands that happen to have recieved alot of mainstream attention that are not at all inspiring, brilliant or ingenious. And as a footnote, I believe metal is a subcategory of rock (a pretty loose umbrella term), so Metallica would at least crack the top ten on my book.
Aerosmith is terrible and I knew that that would be mentioned because I debate that at work with a dude all the time but you're entitled to that opinion. GD I didn't think of, good call there.fleetwood a little too short lived. Metallica is interesting. I don't like them but they have their own following.. I don't think they they are all that involved with community and are greedy. But they are are a classic American band. Can't argue that.
Yes, and since lyrics are part of the criteria they should be disqualified on "Love in an Elevator" alone. I liked some of their real early stuff but they pretty much turned into a novelty/joke band in the 80's
I mean truth be told I don't think it is ever possible to have one "the best" because of the subjective nature of the whole thing, I can think of 100 bands that I would nominate at the very least lol Pearl Jam being one of them of course
I would like to expand on the criteria to include not only lyrics, but the emotional effects those lyrics and their delivery have on the listener. Best, most relatable to the story of my life, rock band EVER.
EDIT: And it's not like one or two songs that get ya...it's a measurable shit-ton.
I would say Social Distortion would be up there, they might not meet all of the OP criteria.
love me some social d, but they've done the same song 100x.
If I had known then what I know now...
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
I wouldn't consider the Grateful Dead the greatest american rock band ever.
I agree with the amazing accomplishments with this band, as well as their innovation.
The problem is, they lack recognizable hits that will sustain the band with the mainstream domestically and abroad. You could go to a juke box anywhere and let songs fly from Tom Petty, GnR, Aerosmith, Doors, etc... and probably will be able to let them fly for many decades.
"Hits" isnt the be-all-end-all, neither is straight-up album sales.... nor is live performance, influence, or international popularity.... But IMO the 'best American band' should possess all those things to some degree. I do think a void of recognizable/mainstream hits is a gigantic strike though.
Agree with this completely. Massive respect for the Dead, but they do not have the record sales or hits ti be in the conversation for the GREATEST.
They can certainly be in the most respected/influential conversation, but to be the GREATEST, surely the average Joe on the street should be able to name a song of theirs?
I think the crux of the argument would be what defines the greatest in terms of music, and it seems we may be all analyzing it from our own personal point of view irrespective of the criteria outlined by the OP. Personally, I would never take the opinion of the Average Joe...I believe that oftentimes we exalt mediocrity. There are precious few artists that not only show brilliance, ingenuity, and influence that also seep into the mainstream consciousness that consequently brings success in album sales/hits/longevity. We have spoke of a few of them here, but we've also spoke of some, frankly, mediocre bands that happen to have recieved alot of mainstream attention that are not at all inspiring, brilliant or ingenious. And as a footnote, I believe metal is a subcategory of rock (a pretty loose umbrella term), so Metallica would at least crack the top ten on my book.
I agree with what you are saying and this is the impossible debate, as everyone's opinion on greatness is different. Unless there is a clear formula agreed upon to calculate the answer, it will always just be opinions.
I also wasn't looking to the average Joe for their opinion, as you rightly point out that popular doesn't necessarily result in greatness, just that that a decent percentage of the general population should be able to recognise a song from the greatest band. I'm sure if you walked a street and played a Led Zepplin/Beatles/Elvis song to 100 people, a fair amount would be able to name the artist at least. I'm not sure you would get a large percentage that could recognise a GD song. My only point is that if a band is deemed truly great, surely their music/sound would have relevance to the general population, this doesn't have to equate to album sales, just recognition. Maybe I'm giving too much credit to the general population
I'll ride the wave where it takes me
*BEC, Brisbane, March 1995
*BEC, Brisbane, March 1998
*BEC, Brisbane, November 2006
*QSAC, Brisbane November 2009
*EV Solo, QPAC, Brisbane March 10 and 12 2011
*Big Day Out, Gold Coast, 19 Jan 2014
*EV Solo, QPAC, Brisbane, 22,23 & 25 Feb 2014
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
To the comment regarding the Dead not having enough recognizable songs. If I wear my Grateful Dead shirt around town, I get thumbs up, cool comments, and knowing nods all day long. I think that’s more important than having greatest hits played on repeat on stale classic rock stations. And what band created concert posters, bootleg show trading, parking lot parties, lighting shows, and frankly an entire genre based on roots in American jazz, country, bluegrass, rock, and blues? That’s the Grateful Dead.
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore
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F Me In The Brain
this knows everybody from other commets Posts: 30,623
Comments
I agree with the amazing accomplishments with this band, as well as their innovation.
The problem is, they lack recognizable hits that will sustain the band with the mainstream domestically and abroad. You could go to a juke box anywhere and let songs fly from Tom Petty, GnR, Aerosmith, Doors, etc... and probably will be able to let them fly for many decades.
"Hits" isnt the be-all-end-all, neither is straight-up album sales.... nor is live performance, influence, or international popularity.... But IMO the 'best American band' should possess all those things to some degree. I do think a void of recognizable/mainstream hits is a gigantic strike though.
100%.
They can certainly be in the most respected/influential conversation, but to be the GREATEST, surely the average Joe on the street should be able to name a song of theirs?
*BEC, Brisbane, March 1995
*BEC, Brisbane, March 1998
*BEC, Brisbane, November 2006
*QSAC, Brisbane November 2009
*EV Solo, QPAC, Brisbane March 10 and 12 2011
*Big Day Out, Gold Coast, 19 Jan 2014
*EV Solo, QPAC, Brisbane, 22,23 & 25 Feb 2014
It won't come from me- I'm not a Dead fan, but I feel there could be at least a small argument there.
Ladies and gentlemen, give it up,........ for Mr Bob Dylan
2009: Salt Lake City, Utah
2012: Missoula, Montana
2014: Denver, Colorado
2018: Missoula, Montana
But if we're narrowing to the live experience then PJ, Bruce and the Foos are the best I've ever seen on stage (VH was great... even with Sammy). Edge to PJ and Bruce because they mix the setlist every night... edge in the end to Bruce for being the quintessential rock god and playing 4 hour high-energy sets without an encore break every night at the the age of 67 (in 2016).
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
EDIT: And it's not like one or two songs that get ya...it's a measurable shit-ton.
Wetlands 91
CBGB 91
Roseland 91
and many, many more
love me some social d, but they've done the same song 100x.
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
I also wasn't looking to the average Joe for their opinion, as you rightly point out that popular doesn't necessarily result in greatness, just that that a decent percentage of the general population should be able to recognise a song from the greatest band. I'm sure if you walked a street and played a Led Zepplin/Beatles/Elvis song to 100 people, a fair amount would be able to name the artist at least. I'm not sure you would get a large percentage that could recognise a GD song. My only point is that if a band is deemed truly great, surely their music/sound would have relevance to the general population, this doesn't have to equate to album sales, just recognition. Maybe I'm giving too much credit to the general population
*BEC, Brisbane, March 1995
*BEC, Brisbane, March 1998
*BEC, Brisbane, November 2006
*QSAC, Brisbane November 2009
*EV Solo, QPAC, Brisbane March 10 and 12 2011
*Big Day Out, Gold Coast, 19 Jan 2014
*EV Solo, QPAC, Brisbane, 22,23 & 25 Feb 2014
are pavement in the fucking equation?
Vegas 93, Vegas 98, Vegas 00 (10 year show), Vegas 03, Vegas 06
VIC 07
EV LA1 08
Seattle1 09, Seattle2 09, Salt Lake 09, LA4 09
Columbus 10
EV LA 11
Vancouver 11
Missoula 12
Portland 13, Spokane 13
St. Paul 14, Denver 14
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
If I wear my Grateful Dead shirt around town, I get thumbs up, cool comments, and knowing nods all day long.
I think that’s more important than having greatest hits played on repeat on stale classic rock stations.
And what band created concert posters, bootleg show trading, parking lot parties, lighting shows, and frankly an entire genre based on roots in American jazz, country, bluegrass, rock, and blues?
That’s the Grateful Dead.
7-6-2006 Las Vegas. 7-20-2006 Portland. 7-22-2006 Gorge. 9-21-2009 Seattle. 9-22-2009 Seattle. 9-26-2009 Ridgefield. 9-25-2011 Vancouver.
11-29-2013 Portland. 10-16-2014 Detroit. 8-8-2018 Seattle. 8-10-2018 Seattle. 8-13-2018 Missoula.
Pavement- best Indie band of all time. hands down!
livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
1995- New Orleans, LA : New Orleans, LA
1996- Charleston, SC
1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
2015- New York, NY
2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA:: Columbia, SC: Raleigh, NC : Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA
2017- ED VED- Louisville, KY
2018- Chicago, IL x2, Boston, MA x2
2020- Nashville, TN
2022- Smashville
2023- Austin, TX x2
2024- Baltimore