Report details sexual abuse by more than 300 priests in Pennsylvania's Catholic Church

124

Comments

  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 43,511
    edited August 21
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    So why did you say you thought the vow of chastity is a factor in the pedo problem in the Church HFD??? If not what I'm saying, then what? Did you actually mean that celibacy leads to pedo horn doggedness or something??
    yes, partially; as I stated, the vast majority of sexual crimes agains children are crimes of opportunity, not true pedophilia. so combine the fact that these guys are:

    -celibate, and
    -are often alone with and hold much influence over these kids which reduces the possibility of them getting caught

    it's a powderkeg waiting to happen. 

    I think what needs to be clarified here is that it seems that most people believe that anyone who has ever molested a kid is a pedophile. that is simply not true. believe me, I was as sick about it as anyone when I found this out, knowing that there are people who do these things on a "whim". Makes me think twice about who I leave my daughters with. 
    I don't really get your main claim here. You are saying that only TWO PERCENT of everyone who molests/rapes children are actually pedophiles, and the rest are just taking the opportunity to get some??? Nope, I'm not buying that premise at all - that just doesn't make any sense. Even those who do it "on a whim" are often sexually turned on by the child, and that alone makes them a pedophile. I know about the power factor when it comes to these things, but even including that factor, I think there is no way in hell that almost everyone who does this is simply a horny asshole and not attracted to children sexually. That statistic just doesn't seem feasible to me - as rgambs says, I think there is something weird going on with the definition of pedophilia when considering that statistic. I'm not saying you didn't read this info btw. I'm just doubting the methods by which they arrived at this conclusion. But in any case, all the priests I've ever heard of accused of child molestation are serial offenders who use very well thought out methods to commit their crimes and cover it up and keep the child from talking, and they do so over and over for years .... That doesn't sound like a crime of opportunity to me in any case. So even if this weird stat is true under some limited definition of pedophilia, I don't think it would seem to apply to these serial child molester priests protected by the Church.
    my claim here is more of a counter claim: I don't believe that the majority of molesting priests go into the priesthood specifically because they are or believe themselves to be sexual deviants. I'd like to see some type of data on that (which I doubt exists), not just any give person's version of logic. 

    well, these definitions come from experts in the field. I totally understand the hesitance to accept this, however, as when I was first told this, I didn't understand how a normal human being would just flip a switch and all of a sudden think it's normal to abuse a child because the opportunity arose. I still can't really wrap my head around it. All I'm saying is, that's the definition and people just toss around the word haphazardly. 

    again, I'd love to do more research on it, but no way in hell I'm doing that at work. 
    If we were talking about one time assaults or something, I'd be more inclined to accept this theory as it pertains to priests, but within the Catholic Church it is just way too deliberate, planned, systematic, they're serial crimes, etc..... In any case, going back to my initial point I guess, I don't believe that these crimes committed by priests over decades can possibly be defined as crimes of opportunity - they're actions normally attributed to pedophiles in the traditional sense as far as I'm concerned... And given that, combined with the fact that the number of these crimes makes the priest population committing the acts makes it disproportionately common within the priesthood, tells me that pedophiles are indeed flocking (pun intended) to the Catholic priesthood for some reason, and if it's not the combo of escaping to God's will and setting up a position with lots of access to vulnerable victims, then I can't imagine what else it could be. It's not like it's just a coincidence obviously.

    Yeah, no doubt, I'm not about to do any in depth research into the topic of pedophilia - next thing I know I'd be stopped at the border for my internet activity or something, lol.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • jeffbrjeffbr SeattlePosts: 6,058
    PJ_Soul said:
    if chastity wasn't part of the issue, then it would happen in other faiths. it simply does not. at least not to this degree, even when taking into account the relative numbers in different faiths. 
    Yes, that I completely agree with. People tend to forget to compare this issue to other faiths... doing so makes it clear that we have to focus on the the differences between those and how the Catholic faith has things set up for priests.
    I wonder how much we know about abuse in other faith communities. I personally don’t know any data, but clearly sexual abuse exists in many other religious communities, as well as cults, and pretty much any other group that emphasizes belonging/loyalty to the group/exclusion of others, because it limits a vulnerable person’s ability to refuse or get away. 
    The Mormons are dealing with something like this, although because of the lay nature of their priesthood, the abuse is not as systemic and institutionalized. The problem with the Mormon church is that they allow untrained laymen to reside over local parishes, and those leaders conduct one-on-one "worthiness" interviews with youth behind closed doors. They can ask all sorts of inappropriate and probing questions. And when abuse occurs, they have historically attempted to handle things internally rather than go to the authorities. This has led to a current uprising among some of the membership, and has one of the "resistance" leaders currently participating in a hunger strike in protest. 
    Here are a few recent (within a few months) articles:

    Ex-LDS bishop starts hunger strike to protest ‘worthiness’ interviews; church responds

    Arizona case shows why Mormon bishops are not reporting sex abuse to police every time. That has a prosecutor complaining about the church’s lawyers.

    Woman Claims Mormon Church’s Cover-Up Culture Protected Her Sexual Predator Dad

    Instructor at Mormon church sexually abused children as young as 2, Texas police say

    Again, not as institutionalized and certainly not of the magnitude of the Catholic church, but disturbing nonetheless.

    "I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/08
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 9,273
    People should not be allowed to get close to kids. Have robots care for them until they're 18.
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,374
    PJ_Soul said:
    rgambs said:
    if chastity wasn't part of the issue, then it would happen in other faiths. it simply does not. at least not to this degree, even when taking into account the relative numbers in different faiths. 
    I don't think you can say that so definitively, there really isn't much evidence one way or the other because the Catholic Church is the only large centrally managed faith that has been look at so closely.
    I'm actually seeing a lot of rumbling around the internet about evangelical churches facing a reckoning of their own on the subject soon.
    I'm positive that there is child molestation going on in other faiths (and then there are those fucking Mormon sects with the child marriage and shit), but I think there is no way it is at the level as it is in Catholicism just because if it were that rampant we'd most certainly know about it. The Catholic Church is the one that most capable of cover ups like this due to its political structure and power, and we still know how rampant it is.... No other denomination would be able to cover it up better IMHO.
    Obviously most of this entire conversation is conjecture, theories based on logical assumptions, etc, but since this isn't a court of law, I see no problem with this. ;)
    The thing is though, it's the bureaucratic nature of the Church that keeps getting them caught.  They keep records of everything, and it's those records that bring them down.
    Most Christian denominations (in America, at least) shuffle their clergy around to varying degrees, and that constant shuffle creates opportunity to commit abuse and get away with it.  Without a central authority recording things, it very well could be that abuse is rampant but the disorganisation (and brainwashing) keep the dots from getting connected.
    I also think that there are some special factors in the Catholic faith itself that "groom" children to be silent victims.
    Surely celibacy exacerbates the issue and contributes, but I don't know if I can agree with it as a cause.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 43,511
    Yeah, the LDS has always had problems too obviously - I see it all over the news a lot because of the whole Bountiful BC thing.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,374
    And I wonder is it their centralised, bureaucratic nature that has them under scrutiny?  I think it's a factor.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 43,511
    edited August 21
    rgambs said:
    And I wonder is it their centralised, bureaucratic nature that has them under scrutiny?  I think it's a factor.
    Who, LDS? Or the Catholic Church?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,374
    I was talking about LDS but of course CC as well.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 43,511
    edited August 22
    rgambs said:
    I was talking about LDS but of course CC as well.
    Well with LDS it's a much different beast because they have all these sects that have broken off from the main faith, and those sects are a source of a huge amount of the child abuse problem within the faith, so in a way it's due to a weird lack of centralization. And then there is the crap going in within the main faith... I'm not sure it's because of its kind of micro-centralization and bureaucratic nature, but I more think it's about the way the Mormon faith is so very insular. That is a faith where if you break away from the Church, all your loved ones literally excommunicate you, so that is a motive for silence of victims above and beyond what you find in the Catholic faith, and whatever sickos might be committing such crimes within the Mormon Church know it. But sure, Mormon elders have an insane amount of power and influence over everyone else in the Church, and of course they want to protect the Church from bad press, and will certainly do their damndest to cover up any scandals that make the Church look bad, and because of how insular they really are, I'm sure cover ups would have a fairly high chance of success. The Mormons have been persecuted since their inception, so the culture among Mormons in terms of hiding dark secrets is different than it is in Catholicism. Catholics tend to keep secrets because of guilt and shame (often deliberately manufactured by abusers). Mormons more keep secrets out of the sense that they must stay faithful to the community in the face of discrimination... They feel like they would be traitors to the Church if they talked.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 19,643
    As long as the guilty priests know they can be forgiven by repentance, boycotting the church for its non action on this issue is the only way ...
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,779
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 43,511
    I've known several ex-Catholics who left for this reason... and that was YEARS ago. And still nothing changed! .... Of course, this new Pope that has been used as a massive PR boost brought some people back apparently... and I guess they all discovered that nothing real had changed! Surprise!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul said:
    I've known several ex-Catholics who left for this reason... and that was YEARS ago. And still nothing changed! .... Of course, this new Pope that has been used as a massive PR boost brought some people back apparently... and I guess they all discovered that nothing real had changed! Surprise!
    They had a membership drive campaign a few years back.

    For every four new converts... people received three extra prayers answered. The problem was as follows: the extra prayers had to be used in one calendar year though and that made a lot of people angry (they wanted to bank the prayers and use them whenever it was most necessary).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 43,511
    PJ_Soul said:
    I've known several ex-Catholics who left for this reason... and that was YEARS ago. And still nothing changed! .... Of course, this new Pope that has been used as a massive PR boost brought some people back apparently... and I guess they all discovered that nothing real had changed! Surprise!
    They had a membership drive campaign a few years back.

    For every four new converts... people received three extra prayers answered. The problem was as follows: the extra prayers had to be used in one calendar year though and that made a lot of people angry (they wanted to bank the prayers and use them whenever it was most necessary).

    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I've known several ex-Catholics who left for this reason... and that was YEARS ago. And still nothing changed! .... Of course, this new Pope that has been used as a massive PR boost brought some people back apparently... and I guess they all discovered that nothing real had changed! Surprise!
    They had a membership drive campaign a few years back.

    For every four new converts... people received three extra prayers answered. The problem was as follows: the extra prayers had to be used in one calendar year though and that made a lot of people angry (they wanted to bank the prayers and use them whenever it was most necessary).

    Lol

    Believable? Really?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 43,511
    edited August 24
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I've known several ex-Catholics who left for this reason... and that was YEARS ago. And still nothing changed! .... Of course, this new Pope that has been used as a massive PR boost brought some people back apparently... and I guess they all discovered that nothing real had changed! Surprise!
    They had a membership drive campaign a few years back.

    For every four new converts... people received three extra prayers answered. The problem was as follows: the extra prayers had to be used in one calendar year though and that made a lot of people angry (they wanted to bank the prayers and use them whenever it was most necessary).

    Lol

    Believable? Really?
    Really! It's religion man, lol. Just really think about how kooky religion gets for a second. I would believe any crazy thing, lol.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I've known several ex-Catholics who left for this reason... and that was YEARS ago. And still nothing changed! .... Of course, this new Pope that has been used as a massive PR boost brought some people back apparently... and I guess they all discovered that nothing real had changed! Surprise!
    They had a membership drive campaign a few years back.

    For every four new converts... people received three extra prayers answered. The problem was as follows: the extra prayers had to be used in one calendar year though and that made a lot of people angry (they wanted to bank the prayers and use them whenever it was most necessary).

    Lol

    Believable? Really?
    Really! It's religion man, lol. Just really think about how kooky religion gets for a second. I would believe any crazy thing, lol.
    I hear you.

    It's so damn stupid (my post)... that it could be a thing.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 43,511
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I've known several ex-Catholics who left for this reason... and that was YEARS ago. And still nothing changed! .... Of course, this new Pope that has been used as a massive PR boost brought some people back apparently... and I guess they all discovered that nothing real had changed! Surprise!
    They had a membership drive campaign a few years back.

    For every four new converts... people received three extra prayers answered. The problem was as follows: the extra prayers had to be used in one calendar year though and that made a lot of people angry (they wanted to bank the prayers and use them whenever it was most necessary).

    Lol

    Believable? Really?
    Really! It's religion man, lol. Just really think about how kooky religion gets for a second. I would believe any crazy thing, lol.
    I hear you.

    It's so damn stupid (my post)... that it could be a thing.
    Hey, the JWs think only 144,000 people fit in heaven. What kind of tiny ass heaven is that?!
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,779
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I've known several ex-Catholics who left for this reason... and that was YEARS ago. And still nothing changed! .... Of course, this new Pope that has been used as a massive PR boost brought some people back apparently... and I guess they all discovered that nothing real had changed! Surprise!
    They had a membership drive campaign a few years back.

    For every four new converts... people received three extra prayers answered. The problem was as follows: the extra prayers had to be used in one calendar year though and that made a lot of people angry (they wanted to bank the prayers and use them whenever it was most necessary).

    Lol

    Believable? Really?
    Really! It's religion man, lol. Just really think about how kooky religion gets for a second. I would believe any crazy thing, lol.
    I hear you.

    It's so damn stupid (my post)... that it could be a thing.
    Hey, the JWs think only 144,000 people fit in heaven. What kind of tiny ass heaven is that?!
    All knowing, all seeing, small landscape....
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,779
    But the phrase “tiny ass heaven” made me laugh. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 1,154
    PJ_Soul said:
    I've known several ex-Catholics who left for this reason... and that was YEARS ago. And still nothing changed! .... Of course, this new Pope that has been used as a massive PR boost brought some people back apparently... and I guess they all discovered that nothing real had changed! Surprise!
    They had a membership drive campaign a few years back.

    For every four new converts... people received three extra prayers answered. The problem was as follows: the extra prayers had to be used in one calendar year though and that made a lot of people angry (they wanted to bank the prayers and use them whenever it was most necessary).
    One of those prayers can be transferred to a friend’s phone but cannot be transferred after that.  If any show up on eBay, the original recipient can be removed from the Decem Club.
    1995 Milwaukee
    1998 Alpine, Alpine
    2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston
    2004 Boston, Boston
    2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)
    2011 Alpine, Alpine
    2013 Wrigley
    2014 St. Paul
    2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley
    2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • OnWis97 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    I've known several ex-Catholics who left for this reason... and that was YEARS ago. And still nothing changed! .... Of course, this new Pope that has been used as a massive PR boost brought some people back apparently... and I guess they all discovered that nothing real had changed! Surprise!
    They had a membership drive campaign a few years back.

    For every four new converts... people received three extra prayers answered. The problem was as follows: the extra prayers had to be used in one calendar year though and that made a lot of people angry (they wanted to bank the prayers and use them whenever it was most necessary).
    One of those prayers can be transferred to a friend’s phone but cannot be transferred after that.  If any show up on eBay, the original recipient can be removed from the Decem Club.
    God's trying to eliminate the flippers.

    He gets so pissed off when he answers a prayer... only to find out the person transfered it to someone else. It's his job to answer prayers... not some schmuk's job.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • j1kotwicj1kotwic Posts: 157
    rgambs said:
    j1kotwic said:
    rgambs said:
    Outrage, what a joke.

    You'll still be there, you'll still put money in the pot, you'll still defend the church by playing the "poor bullied Catholic" line...bottom line, you will take money out of your pocket this week and forever to pay child rapists and their protectors no matter how many kids get raped.
    Because of the scandals that have continued to plague the catholic church, you and many on here have judged 1/7th of the world's population and declared all catholics to be in favor of or complicit with rape and therefore bad people. I expect outrage towards those involved and those who allowed it to happen. But did not expect to see so much widespread hate towards so many who have no involvement.  Because we put money in the basket? We have many poor at mass who do not put money in because they can't afford it. Are they bad people? Or is it just people who give money? Tell me, the people that give money are they giving it because they believe it is going towards a good cause? What pretenses are they giving money?  Think it's going to the salvation army, red cross, people in need? Pay the utilities at the church?  This is where my church's donations go. Or do you just see it as a billion people donating into a rapist priest defense fund?  Seems like the latter is the way you guys see it. This is what you want to believe? If that's the case than just fuck it, humanity is doomed. Fucking cynics.  

    And no, Not a poor bullied catholic here. Im not looking for sympathy or your approval. Don't need it.  Im just saying you guys are generalizing and judging so many people and it's wrong. Im honestly surprised to see that here. Most Catholics are good people. Just like most Jews are good people. Just like most muslims are good people. Just like most atheists are good people. Just like most humans are good people...  

    There are some bad people that have infiltrated the catholic religion just as they do in society. Some church leadership protected these horrible criminals and ruined people's lives. They put the public relations of the catholic church before its own people and it is so wrong. The fact that there has been a 70 year history of this and the grand jury found that this behavior is continuing is despicable. Very dark times to be a catholic.  

    But get out of here with your "1.2 billion catholic people are bad people who are complicit with rape" bullshit. Be angry with rapists, the enablers, protectors and church leadership who allowed this to happen. Dont be angry with the catholic person who truly lives the faith, loves one another and respects all human life. 
    If you want to try to understand, read your post and replace every mention of or reference to the church with the Mafia, the Taliban, or some crazy child-polygamy cult.  

    It doesn't matter how many people practice the magic rituals, billions doesn't change anything.  Nobody thinks all Catholics are bad people, we all understand that in their personal lives, they are just like everyone else...shitty to awesome, the whole spectrum.

    The problem we have is that your sick fucking institution has you all brainwashed to circle the wagons and defend the Church no matter what.
    "Some" "some" "some"... That's minimizing and compartmentalizing 101.


    Tell me, what do you think about this? ^^^
    So why aren't the priests going to prison?


    Because all but one or two of them are dead. The ones alive will be prosecuted to the full extent of the ln law... why do you ask?  Some sort of catholic conspiracy to keep rapist out and about?  
  • j1kotwicj1kotwic Posts: 157
    j1kotwic said:
    rgambs said:
    Outrage, what a joke.

    You'll still be there, you'll still put money in the pot, you'll still defend the church by playing the "poor bullied Catholic" line...bottom line, you will take money out of your pocket this week and forever to pay child rapists and their protectors no matter how many kids get raped.
    Because of the scandals that have continued to plague the catholic church, you and many on here have judged 1/7th of the world's population and declared all catholics to be in favor of or complicit with rape and therefore bad people. I expect outrage towards those involved and those who allowed it to happen. But did not expect to see so much widespread hate towards so many who have no involvement.  Because we put money in the basket? We have many poor at mass who do not put money in because they can't afford it. Are they bad people? Or is it just people who give money? Tell me, the people that give money are they giving it because they believe it is going towards a good cause? What pretenses are they giving money?  Think it's going to the salvation army, red cross, people in need? Pay the utilities at the church?  This is where my church's donations go. Or do you just see it as a billion people donating into a rapist priest defense fund?  Seems like the latter is the way you guys see it. This is what you want to believe? If that's the case than just fuck it, humanity is doomed. Fucking cynics.  

    And no, Not a poor bullied catholic here. Im not looking for sympathy or your approval. Don't need it.  Im just saying you guys are generalizing and judging so many people and it's wrong. Im honestly surprised to see that here. Most Catholics are good people. Just like most Jews are good people. Just like most muslims are good people. Just like most atheists are good people. Just like most humans are good people...  

    There are some bad people that have infiltrated the catholic religion just as they do in society. Some church leadership protected these horrible criminals and ruined people's lives. They put the public relations of the catholic church before its own people and it is so wrong. The fact that there has been a 70 year history of this and the grand jury found that this behavior is continuing is despicable. Very dark times to be a catholic.  

    But get out of here with your "1.2 billion catholic people are bad people who are complicit with rape" bullshit. Be angry with rapists, the enablers, protectors and church leadership who allowed this to happen. Dont be angry with the catholic person who truly lives the faith, loves one another and respects all human life. 
    Oh we are.

    Own it, man. Your money and faith do not just pay the utilities. Where do you think your dream selling organization procures its funds? It's the oldest pyramid scheme in existence.
    You have it all figured out.  Good for you. Know any Catholics?  Tell them to their face how you feel about them. Teach them the way 
  • j1kotwic said:
    j1kotwic said:
    rgambs said:
    Outrage, what a joke.

    You'll still be there, you'll still put money in the pot, you'll still defend the church by playing the "poor bullied Catholic" line...bottom line, you will take money out of your pocket this week and forever to pay child rapists and their protectors no matter how many kids get raped.
    Because of the scandals that have continued to plague the catholic church, you and many on here have judged 1/7th of the world's population and declared all catholics to be in favor of or complicit with rape and therefore bad people. I expect outrage towards those involved and those who allowed it to happen. But did not expect to see so much widespread hate towards so many who have no involvement.  Because we put money in the basket? We have many poor at mass who do not put money in because they can't afford it. Are they bad people? Or is it just people who give money? Tell me, the people that give money are they giving it because they believe it is going towards a good cause? What pretenses are they giving money?  Think it's going to the salvation army, red cross, people in need? Pay the utilities at the church?  This is where my church's donations go. Or do you just see it as a billion people donating into a rapist priest defense fund?  Seems like the latter is the way you guys see it. This is what you want to believe? If that's the case than just fuck it, humanity is doomed. Fucking cynics.  

    And no, Not a poor bullied catholic here. Im not looking for sympathy or your approval. Don't need it.  Im just saying you guys are generalizing and judging so many people and it's wrong. Im honestly surprised to see that here. Most Catholics are good people. Just like most Jews are good people. Just like most muslims are good people. Just like most atheists are good people. Just like most humans are good people...  

    There are some bad people that have infiltrated the catholic religion just as they do in society. Some church leadership protected these horrible criminals and ruined people's lives. They put the public relations of the catholic church before its own people and it is so wrong. The fact that there has been a 70 year history of this and the grand jury found that this behavior is continuing is despicable. Very dark times to be a catholic.  

    But get out of here with your "1.2 billion catholic people are bad people who are complicit with rape" bullshit. Be angry with rapists, the enablers, protectors and church leadership who allowed this to happen. Dont be angry with the catholic person who truly lives the faith, loves one another and respects all human life. 
    Oh we are.

    Own it, man. Your money and faith do not just pay the utilities. Where do you think your dream selling organization procures its funds? It's the oldest pyramid scheme in existence.
    You have it all figured out.  Good for you. Know any Catholics?  Tell them to their face how you feel about them. Teach them the way 
    One of my oldest friends is one of the brainwashed.

    I tell him exactly what I say here all the time when the topic comes up.

    He doesn't budge. From a very early age he was taught not to question. That type of indoctrination is very very challenging to overcome.

    I feel sorry for him.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 9,273
    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • my2handsmy2hands Posts: 15,757
    "I was Catholic, until I reached the age of reason" - George Carlin (RIP)
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 2,657
    You know what would be a good start to get the church to reform ... for countries to boycott the Pope.  I swathe was in Ireland this past week, why is the head of this abusive religion to children not being arrested or told to stay the fuck home...

    The church membership is way down, so people not going to the church has changed nothing.  Now it's time for countries to boycott the pope...


  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,482
    I read that.  Terrible.
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