Regarding some of the above comments about the Amish:
I think they are an excellent example of why technology isn't always necessary. I'm not anti-technology, but I think we rely on it more than is good for our health. Technology for communications, medical needs, etc are very helpful. But who is more physically and mentally healthy overall- people who drive or ride in motorized vehicles everywhere, who sit at a desk behind a computer to work, who have few skills requiring physical labor, who eat mass produced food from packages, cans or restaurants, or the Amish who do the opposite of all that?
They don't need a minimum wage. They cooperate. If someone looses a barn, the whole community comes together to build a new barn. They are interdependent. Most of society is not. Most of us are relatively selfish and look out mostly for our own needs. We mostly only working together for "our team", but those allegiances are weak and ever changing.
Amish women do play a different role in their societies than ours. It's not one I would subscribe to because I grew up in a more modern, equal rights society. But I would not so quickly dismiss how theirs works. Women are highly esteemed in their society and have specific, strong rolls. Maybe at least skim this article before passing judgement:
I'm half-Amish so, yes, I do get rather defensive of my heritage. But I also believe that we should not criticize other cultures without a good understanding of how they work. People like to poke fun at the Amish and many times, those jokes are blatantly racist and based on hearsay or preconceived notions. So yes, I am defensive on the subject even though I live a thoroughly modern life myself. My father who was born 100% Amish became Aviation Machinists Mate in WWII and later became an aeronautical engineer for United Air Lines. But he still honored his heritage.
What's up with zippers?
hippiemom = goodness
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,682
I have almost nothing against the Amish whatsoever, just that thing about basing gender roles on what the Bible says. I COMPLETELY disagree with your watering down of the inequality women live under in the Amish world Brian. I'm not arguing that they aren't esteemed in a way - I am already well aware of the gender roles in Amish society - but at the end of the day that is the go-to excuse used to defend female inequality in religious cultures that are ruled by men. But many things about Amish culture are quite nice and I respect their choice to live separate from modern society - I understand the appeal. My only point was that using the Amish as an example for the rest of society to follow in terms of farming practices with the lack of advanced technology is pretty much pointless, all things considered.
I agree with you about basing female roles etc. on the Bible. Not my thing, that's for sure.
But as far as Amish farming practices go, I'm totally for it. Writer and farmer Wendell Berry (the greatest living writer in America) talks a lot about the practical and wise farming practices of the Amish. Makes total sense to me. I think when the age of oil is done and over, Berry will be proven correct.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I’m sure it’s a clause in 2-A; the right to own the road in your monster truck.
Definitely ties into 2A. I'm pretty sure it's a requirement around here that every pickup truck MUST have at least one Browning sticker in the back window.
Being concerned about gender inequality isn’t nitpicking.
Gender inequality is an important concern, I totally agree. But to assume that women have no rights in Amish society is oversimplification and knee jerk. I would suggest to anyone making a quick criticism maybe study their culture first. And talk to some Amish women. My grandmother (my father's mother) who was Amish was one one the strongest women I've ever known. To know my grandmother was to know a totally independent and strong woman. She lived to be 90 and lived on her own the last 65 years of her life and was no push over. I've never known a stronger woman.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Regarding some of the above comments about the Amish:
I think they are an excellent example of why technology isn't always necessary. I'm not anti-technology, but I think we rely on it more than is good for our health. Technology for communications, medical needs, etc are very helpful. But who is more physically and mentally healthy overall- people who drive or ride in motorized vehicles everywhere, who sit at a desk behind a computer to work, who have few skills requiring physical labor, who eat mass produced food from packages, cans or restaurants, or the Amish who do the opposite of all that?
They don't need a minimum wage. They cooperate. If someone looses a barn, the whole community comes together to build a new barn. They are interdependent. Most of society is not. Most of us are relatively selfish and look out mostly for our own needs. We mostly only working together for "our team", but those allegiances are weak and ever changing.
Amish women do play a different role in their societies than ours. It's not one I would subscribe to because I grew up in a more modern, equal rights society. But I would not so quickly dismiss how theirs works. Women are highly esteemed in their society and have specific, strong rolls. Maybe at least skim this article before passing judgement:
I'm half-Amish so, yes, I do get rather defensive of my heritage. But I also believe that we should not criticize other cultures without a good understanding of how they work. People like to poke fun at the Amish and many times, those jokes are blatantly racist and based on hearsay or preconceived notions. So yes, I am defensive on the subject even though I live a thoroughly modern life myself. My father who was born 100% Amish became Aviation Machinists Mate in WWII and later became an aeronautical engineer for United Air Lines. But he still honored his heritage.
Sounds like...
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,682
Regarding some of the above comments about the Amish:
I think they are an excellent example of why technology isn't always necessary. I'm not anti-technology, but I think we rely on it more than is good for our health. Technology for communications, medical needs, etc are very helpful. But who is more physically and mentally healthy overall- people who drive or ride in motorized vehicles everywhere, who sit at a desk behind a computer to work, who have few skills requiring physical labor, who eat mass produced food from packages, cans or restaurants, or the Amish who do the opposite of all that?
They don't need a minimum wage. They cooperate. If someone looses a barn, the whole community comes together to build a new barn. They are interdependent. Most of society is not. Most of us are relatively selfish and look out mostly for our own needs. We mostly only working together for "our team", but those allegiances are weak and ever changing.
Amish women do play a different role in their societies than ours. It's not one I would subscribe to because I grew up in a more modern, equal rights society. But I would not so quickly dismiss how theirs works. Women are highly esteemed in their society and have specific, strong rolls. Maybe at least skim this article before passing judgement:
I'm half-Amish so, yes, I do get rather defensive of my heritage. But I also believe that we should not criticize other cultures without a good understanding of how they work. People like to poke fun at the Amish and many times, those jokes are blatantly racist and based on hearsay or preconceived notions. So yes, I am defensive on the subject even though I live a thoroughly modern life myself. My father who was born 100% Amish became Aviation Machinists Mate in WWII and later became an aeronautical engineer for United Air Lines. But he still honored his heritage.
Sounds like...
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Who determined $15 was a living wage anyways. How come no one expects the government to tax us less leaving us more disposable income.
Give Peas A Chance…
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,682
Another thing to keep in mind regarding the Amish (and then I will let this go) is that the Amish are not enslaved. I still think the kids who decide to stay in their culture are the smart ones, but they do get to choose, they are allowed to make the choice to stay or go. Maybe check out this trailer. The documentary itself was quite good.
Being concerned about gender inequality isn’t nitpicking.
Gender inequality is an important concern, I totally agree. But to assume that women have no rights in Amish society is oversimplification and knee jerk. I would suggest to anyone making a quick criticism maybe study their culture first. And talk to some Amish women. My grandmother (my father's mother) who was Amish was one one the strongest women I've ever known. To know my grandmother was to know a totally independent and strong woman. She lived to be 90 and lived on her own the last 65 years of her life and was no push over. I've never known a stronger woman.
I didn’t mean to imply “no rights”, Brian, and in fact I didn’t say that, but when a persons’ choices and behaviours are significantly restricted by their society’s expectations about gender then that’s a reason for concern. It also doesn’t mean that strong women don’t exist in that culture - of course they do. Strong women exist in all cultures.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,682
Being concerned about gender inequality isn’t nitpicking.
Gender inequality is an important concern, I totally agree. But to assume that women have no rights in Amish society is oversimplification and knee jerk. I would suggest to anyone making a quick criticism maybe study their culture first. And talk to some Amish women. My grandmother (my father's mother) who was Amish was one one the strongest women I've ever known. To know my grandmother was to know a totally independent and strong woman. She lived to be 90 and lived on her own the last 65 years of her life and was no push over. I've never known a stronger woman.
I didn’t mean to imply “no rights”, Brian, and in fact I didn’t say that, but when a persons’ choices and behaviours are significantly restricted by their society’s expectations about gender then that’s a reason for concern. It also doesn’t mean that strong women don’t exist in that culture - of course they do. Strong women exist in all cultures.
Agreed.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
As a cyclist myself, I've talked to many a person around here with the opinion that we belong on the sidewalk and if they every catch a cyclist on the road, they make it a point to barely miss hitting us or not miss at all. I really don't understand it. You don't go derbying other cars on the road, or motorcyclists. What is the beef with pedal cycling that you feel the need & desire to run us off the road, hit & injure, or worse kill us?
Anyway, not sure how minimum wage evolved into this, but there's my input on one of the reasons why cyclists don't cycle to work.
I’ve never heard anyone say they try not to miss, but it’s come up in threads before and I have heard the near miss comments before. I don’t think anyone intentionally hits a biker. I think that’s wrong, but I think there is equal blame and responsibility. Why do drivers get so annoyed at cyclists? I’m guessing because they are impeding traffic and just not using common sense and acting like they own the road. I see it all the time. There’s about a mile of stretch of road by my house before I get to the freeway that this is not uncommon. Although no bike lane, there is plenty of room to ride on the shoulder and allow cars to pass. Why they don’t and chose to ride in the middle of the road is beyond me. Personally I would just ride my bike through the residential streets nearby. I mentioned that last time this topic came up and was told by several that they have as much right to be there as a car. While I agree, there’s also a responsibility to respect cars and do your best not to impede traffic when possible. It’s when they chose not to, or ride side by side that drivers get pissed off. Not saying they should clip bikers, just there’s a shared responsibility.
If the Amish are happy with their roles in society, then this is their choice ... personally I accept Brians explanation ...
Obviously it is their choice - I never suggested otherwise. That doesn't mean I have to like it or accept it as a-okay. Plenty of societies make women second class citizens (if that) in various ways and everyone in that society is fine with it, because, of course, they were raised to believe it's fine. That doesn't make it right on a human or civil rights level IMO.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I have almost nothing against the Amish whatsoever, just that thing about basing gender roles on what the Bible says. I COMPLETELY disagree with your watering down of the inequality women live under in the Amish world Brian. I'm not arguing that they aren't esteemed in a way - I am already well aware of the gender roles in Amish society - but at the end of the day that is the go-to excuse used to defend female inequality in religious cultures that are ruled by men. But many things about Amish culture are quite nice and I respect their choice to live separate from modern society - I understand the appeal. My only point was that using the Amish as an example for the rest of society to follow in terms of farming practices with the lack of advanced technology is pretty much pointless, all things considered.
I agree with you about basing female roles etc. on the Bible. Not my thing, that's for sure.
But as far as Amish farming practices go, I'm totally for it. Writer and farmer Wendell Berry (the greatest living writer in America) talks a lot about the practical and wise farming practices of the Amish. Makes total sense to me. I think when the age of oil is done and over, Berry will be proven correct.
I don't see why anyone would not be "for" Amish farming practices. You'd have to be a mental case to be "against" it. I'm simply claiming that those practices wouldn't work for the masses. They only succeed in small communities.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Who determined $15 was a living wage anyways. How come no one expects the government to tax us less leaving us more disposable income.
How come no one expects government to provide housing, food, education and health care; leaving us more disposable income?
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,682
I have almost nothing against the Amish whatsoever, just that thing about basing gender roles on what the Bible says. I COMPLETELY disagree with your watering down of the inequality women live under in the Amish world Brian. I'm not arguing that they aren't esteemed in a way - I am already well aware of the gender roles in Amish society - but at the end of the day that is the go-to excuse used to defend female inequality in religious cultures that are ruled by men. But many things about Amish culture are quite nice and I respect their choice to live separate from modern society - I understand the appeal. My only point was that using the Amish as an example for the rest of society to follow in terms of farming practices with the lack of advanced technology is pretty much pointless, all things considered.
I agree with you about basing female roles etc. on the Bible. Not my thing, that's for sure.
But as far as Amish farming practices go, I'm totally for it. Writer and farmer Wendell Berry (the greatest living writer in America) talks a lot about the practical and wise farming practices of the Amish. Makes total sense to me. I think when the age of oil is done and over, Berry will be proven correct.
I don't see why anyone would not be "for" Amish farming practices. You'd have to be a mental case to be "against" it. I'm simply claiming that those practices wouldn't work for the masses. They only succeed in small communities.
Yes, probably true but [oh brother, he he goes again with one of his idealistic tangents, lol] I also am in favor of having a limited number of large cities- only those surrounded by arable land that can sustain those cities and those cities should be meccas of cultural activity and places to gather for the promotion of culture and peace- and more small communities where people live and work interdependently in a healthy environment. I would love to see a movement toward more localized small farming and really, other than in big cities, there is not reason this could not work. With the huge increase in on-line shopping, most malls are dead now anyway. I say, tear them up, rejuvinate the soil and get back on track with local small farming.
This is not a new idea. I often recommend James Howard Kunslter's quartet of novels, his World Made By Hand series. They're fine novels in of themselves and, along with his non-fiction work, The Long Emergency, suggest how this all my happen in the future any way out of necessity.
Meanwhile, more urban farming would also help. Garden those roofs and vacant lots!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Who determined $15 was a living wage anyways. How come no one expects the government to tax us less leaving us more disposable income.
How come no one expects government to provide housing, food, education and health care; leaving us more disposable income?
Because a lot of people prefer the ability to choose where to live, the food they eat, the type of education their children get, and where they receive health care...
As a cyclist myself, I've talked to many a person around here with the opinion that we belong on the sidewalk and if they every catch a cyclist on the road, they make it a point to barely miss hitting us or not miss at all. I really don't understand it. You don't go derbying other cars on the road, or motorcyclists. What is the beef with pedal cycling that you feel the need & desire to run us off the road, hit & injure, or worse kill us?
Anyway, not sure how minimum wage evolved into this, but there's my input on one of the reasons why cyclists don't cycle to work.
I’ve never heard anyone say they try not to miss, but it’s come up in threads before and I have heard the near miss comments before. I don’t think anyone intentionally hits a biker. I think that’s wrong, but I think there is equal blame and responsibility. Why do drivers get so annoyed at cyclists? I’m guessing because they are impeding traffic and just not using common sense and acting like they own the road. I see it all the time. There’s about a mile of stretch of road by my house before I get to the freeway that this is not uncommon. Although no bike lane, there is plenty of room to ride on the shoulder and allow cars to pass. Why they don’t and chose to ride in the middle of the road is beyond me. Personally I would just ride my bike through the residential streets nearby. I mentioned that last time this topic came up and was told by several that they have as much right to be there as a car. While I agree, there’s also a responsibility to respect cars and do your best not to impede traffic when possible. It’s when they chose not to, or ride side by side that drivers get pissed off. Not saying they should clip bikers, just there’s a shared responsibility.
Riding on the shoulder is dangerous for a cyclist. Way too much debris on the side of the road - whether it's gravel, glass, trash, etc. Many places don't even have shoulders. But anytime I've ever ridden, if traffic is approaching, I move as close to the white line as possible and allow them to move around me. It's common sense. But yes, regardless of whether a motorist is pissed off or not gives them no right to run us off the road. There is no need or sufficient reason for a motorist to "act like they own the road" either. If for some reason a cyclist doesn't see or hear you (not you personally, but "you" in general), a short, sweet beep of the horn to alert us you're approaching could easily reconcile the situation.
Who determined $15 was a living wage anyways. How come no one expects the government to tax us less leaving us more disposable income.
How come no one expects government to provide housing, food, education and health care; leaving us more disposable income?
Because a lot of people prefer the ability to choose where to live, the food they eat, the type of education their children get, and where they receive health care...
You don't have that luxury now. Do you live in a penthouse in manhattan? Eat surf & turf every night? Go to Harvard? Get treated at Mayo Clinic? No you don't.
A lot people are having to choose between whether they can pay rent, afford groceries, pay their student loans or afford treatment they need.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
As a cyclist myself, I've talked to many a person around here with the opinion that we belong on the sidewalk and if they every catch a cyclist on the road, they make it a point to barely miss hitting us or not miss at all. I really don't understand it. You don't go derbying other cars on the road, or motorcyclists. What is the beef with pedal cycling that you feel the need & desire to run us off the road, hit & injure, or worse kill us?
Anyway, not sure how minimum wage evolved into this, but there's my input on one of the reasons why cyclists don't cycle to work.
I’ve never heard anyone say they try not to miss, but it’s come up in threads before and I have heard the near miss comments before. I don’t think anyone intentionally hits a biker. I think that’s wrong, but I think there is equal blame and responsibility. Why do drivers get so annoyed at cyclists? I’m guessing because they are impeding traffic and just not using common sense and acting like they own the road. I see it all the time. There’s about a mile of stretch of road by my house before I get to the freeway that this is not uncommon. Although no bike lane, there is plenty of room to ride on the shoulder and allow cars to pass. Why they don’t and chose to ride in the middle of the road is beyond me. Personally I would just ride my bike through the residential streets nearby. I mentioned that last time this topic came up and was told by several that they have as much right to be there as a car. While I agree, there’s also a responsibility to respect cars and do your best not to impede traffic when possible. It’s when they chose not to, or ride side by side that drivers get pissed off. Not saying they should clip bikers, just there’s a shared responsibility.
Cyclists don't impede traffic. They are traffic. They own the road just as any other vehicle would. The weight of responsibility is on the motorist to respect the cyclist as they are in the position to create much more damage.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Yes, it happens on occasion. It's a form of road rage. And yes, not that it justifies endangering bikers, some cyclists are the WORST. There are plenty of them in Vancouver who just refuse to respect the rules of the road, and even as a pedestrian watching from the sidewalk, it's absolutely infuriating. I don't really blame drivers for learning to hate them, with so many cyclists acting that way. It's just too bad it negatively affects the cyclists who are doing it right.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Who determined $15 was a living wage anyways. How come no one expects the government to tax us less leaving us more disposable income.
How come no one expects government to provide housing, food, education and health care; leaving us more disposable income?
Because a lot of people prefer the ability to choose where to live, the food they eat, the type of education their children get, and where they receive health care...
You don't have that luxury now. Do you live in a penthouse in manhattan? Eat surf & turf every night? Go to Harvard? Get treated at Mayo Clinic? No you don't.
A lot people are having to choose between whether they can pay rent, afford groceries, pay their student loans or afford treatment they need.
Couldn’t pay me enough to live in Manhattan, but yes, I get to live where I want to live and pretty much eat whatever I want whenever I want it, and got to go to my college of choice, but Healthcare is fucked. It is also my choice whether or not to work 40 hours a week to be able to afford those luxuries. If I did not work, I would not expect them.
Yes, it happens on occasion. It's a form of road rage. And yes, not that it justifies endangering bikers, some cyclists are the WORST. There are plenty of them in Vancouver who just refuse to respect the rules of the road, and even as a pedestrian watching from the sidewalk, it's absolutely infuriating. I don't really blame drivers for learning to hate them, with so many cyclists acting that way. It's just too bad it negatively affects the cyclists who are doing it right.
The "bike authority" as I call them. We have a group of them around here. They created the only cycling club in the area about 10-12 years ago and thus think they are the bicycle & road authority. I refuse to join the club or ride with them because I don't want to be associated with the bad apples. Yes, it is one thing to understand and expect that motorists should be sharing the road with you. It's also a thing for all parties, motorists & cyclists alike, to respect the road and basic traffic laws (signal your turns & stops, obey street signs & traffic lights, give enough distance, etc). Neither should go out with the expectation that one deserves the road more than the other. Cooperation is key, it's costs nothing, and takes very little effort on both parts.
Who determined $15 was a living wage anyways. How come no one expects the government to tax us less leaving us more disposable income.
How come no one expects government to provide housing, food, education and health care; leaving us more disposable income?
Because a lot of people prefer the ability to choose where to live, the food they eat, the type of education their children get, and where they receive health care...
You don't have that luxury now. Do you live in a penthouse in manhattan? Eat surf & turf every night? Go to Harvard? Get treated at Mayo Clinic? No you don't.
A lot people are having to choose between whether they can pay rent, afford groceries, pay their student loans or afford treatment they need.
So true. Most people don't have the luxury to live wherever they please and have to make those tough decisions.
That said, on the flip side I know from seeing how some of the young adults we know quite well spend their money, that wise spending and good budgeting are not often practicedd (and probably because the example is not often set for them earlier on). If I ran a school, I would place a huge emphasis on the subject of personal finance. Most people live below their means because they don't know or practice the first thing about good budgeting and getting the most for their money. That's no excuse for underpaying people, but it really is a major reason why so many people do not live as well as they could.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
How the heck did the Amish become part of a conversation about minimum wage. The Amish would not like, they like to go about their business peacefully and quietly. The Amish don't tell me how to live, I will not tell them how live...
Who determined $15 was a living wage anyways. How come no one expects the government to tax us less leaving us more disposable income.
How come no one expects government to provide housing, food, education and health care; leaving us more disposable income?
Because a lot of people prefer the ability to choose where to live, the food they eat, the type of education their children get, and where they receive health care...
You don't have that luxury now. Do you live in a penthouse in manhattan? Eat surf & turf every night? Go to Harvard? Get treated at Mayo Clinic? No you don't.
A lot people are having to choose between whether they can pay rent, afford groceries, pay their student loans or afford treatment they need.
So true. Most people don't have the luxury to live wherever they please and have to make those tough decisions.
That said, on the flip side I know from seeing how some of the young adults we know quite well spend their money, that wise spending and good budgeting are not often practicedd (and probably because the example is not often set for them earlier on). If I ran a school, I would place a huge emphasis on the subject of personal finance. Most people live below their means because they don't know or practice the first thing about good budgeting and getting the most for their money. That's no excuse for underpaying people, but it really is a major reason why so many people do not live as well as they could.
Agreed with the personal finance aspect. My wife and I are pretty diligent at budgeting and sticking to it. We got out of debt years ago and our goal is to never have debt again. That being said, the most I learned through high school about personal finance is how to write a check, lol. That’s sad, because once you get to college, there are tons of credit card companies circling like buzzards. I knew plenty of others during college that struggled to pay rent, not because they didn’t have adequate income, but spent well beyond their means either eating out, going to the clubs, etc. They were living lifestyles that they couldn’t afford.
How the heck did the Amish become part of a conversation about minimum wage. The Amish would not like, they like to go about their business peacefully and quietly. The Amish don't tell me how to live, I will not tell them how live...
Good thing nobody is telling them how to live. Why would anyone want to do that?
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Who determined $15 was a living wage anyways. How come no one expects the government to tax us less leaving us more disposable income.
How come no one expects government to provide housing, food, education and health care; leaving us more disposable income?
Because a lot of people prefer the ability to choose where to live, the food they eat, the type of education their children get, and where they receive health care...
You don't have that luxury now. Do you live in a penthouse in manhattan? Eat surf & turf every night? Go to Harvard? Get treated at Mayo Clinic? No you don't.
A lot people are having to choose between whether they can pay rent, afford groceries, pay their student loans or afford treatment they need.
Couldn’t pay me enough to live in Manhattan, but yes, I get to live where I want to live and pretty much eat whatever I want whenever I want it, and got to go to my college of choice, but Healthcare is fucked. It is also my choice whether or not to work 40 hours a week to be able to afford those luxuries. If I did not work, I would not expect them.
Aaaahhh... So your just another one of those people who want all the benefits of living in a functioning society without having to contribute. Why didn't you just say so?
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Comments
I think that’s wrong, but I think there is equal blame and responsibility.
Why do drivers get so annoyed at cyclists? I’m guessing because they are impeding traffic and just not using common sense and acting like they own the road.
I see it all the time. There’s about a mile of stretch of road by my house before I get to the freeway that this is not uncommon. Although no bike lane, there is plenty of room to ride on the shoulder and allow cars to pass. Why they don’t and chose to ride in the middle of the road is beyond me. Personally I would just ride my bike through the residential streets nearby.
I mentioned that last time this topic came up and was told by several that they have as much right to be there as a car. While I agree, there’s also a responsibility to respect cars and do your best not to impede traffic when possible. It’s when they chose not to, or ride side by side that drivers get pissed off.
Not saying they should clip bikers, just there’s a shared responsibility.
How come no one expects government to provide housing, food, education and health care; leaving us more disposable income?
You don't have that luxury now. Do you live in a penthouse in manhattan? Eat surf & turf every night? Go to Harvard? Get treated at Mayo Clinic? No you don't.
A lot people are having to choose between whether they can pay rent, afford groceries, pay their student loans or afford treatment they need.
Yes, it happens on occasion. It's a form of road rage. And yes, not that it justifies endangering bikers, some cyclists are the WORST. There are plenty of them in Vancouver who just refuse to respect the rules of the road, and even as a pedestrian watching from the sidewalk, it's absolutely infuriating. I don't really blame drivers for learning to hate them, with so many cyclists acting that way. It's just too bad it negatively affects the cyclists who are doing it right.
It is also my choice whether or not to work 40 hours a week to be able to afford those luxuries. If I did not work, I would not expect them.