We must have a better system to deal with 10c ticket exchanges / refunds

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Comments

  • sk8nshoot1sk8nshoot1 Posts: 722
    The only issue I have with the system is that the 10 Club sells the tickets too far in advance...  6 to 7 months is too long.  3 months would be fine.  Other bands do this too, it's become an issue as far as I'm concerned and at 57 y/o I hope I make it to the shows instead of a pine box...  LOL   
    1996: Randall's Island I, Hartford
    1998: MSG I, Hartford
    2000: Jones Beach I
    2003: Albany, MSG II, Mansfield II & III, Homdel
    2004: Boston (VFC) I & II
    2006: Albany, Hartford, Boston I and E. Rutherford I
    2008: MSG I & II, Hartford, Mansfield II (saw BostonLou in the FRONT ROW!!) EV-NYC II
    2010: Hartford
    2013 Worcester II, Hartford
    2016 Fenway I
    2018 Wrigley II, Fenway II
  • ZodZod Posts: 5,795
    yah, but the long heads up time goes both ways.   PJ doesn't tour much, so more people have to travel to see pj, than pj travels to see them.   Most people have jobs and need to book time off to do something like that.   Thus the lead time lets them book that time off before someone else beats them to it.
  • tl238413tl238413 Posts: 5
    Very interesting to read back through this thread and hear folks rigidly defend the current system because without it things would spiral out of control and scalpers would rule the earth. Change and going against the current system would be a fiasco. “Keep on Rockin’ in the Free World” ...but be careful you obey all the rules while you’re down in that mosh pit.

    10Club is a multimillion dollar business for one of the most successful bands on the planet. Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 3,905
    tl238413 said:
    Very interesting to read back through this thread and hear folks rigidly defend the current system because without it things would spiral out of control and scalpers would rule the earth. Change and going against the current system would be a fiasco. “Keep on Rockin’ in the Free World” ...but be careful you obey all the rules while you’re down in that mosh pit.

    10Club is a multimillion dollar business for one of the most successful bands on the planet. Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Still waiting on your suggestion on how you get around people putting in for every show and then cancelling the ones they can no longer make because "life" got in the way. I have a feeling you would be the first person on here complaining about the odds down to single digits and not getting tickets when the draw happens when people flood their picks on every show. Face it people would abuse the system. The way it is is not perfect but it does protect us all from scalpers and people being greedy. 
    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
    2016 Quebec, Toronto 2, Fenway 1&2, Wrigley 2
    2018 Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Seattle 2, Wrigley 2, Fenway 1&2 

    EV
    2017 Firenze, Taormina 1 & 2
  • on2legson2legs The Jersey ShorePosts: 7,191
    tl238413 said:
    Very interesting to read back through this thread and hear folks rigidly defend the current system because without it things would spiral out of control and scalpers would rule the earth. Change and going against the current system would be a fiasco. “Keep on Rockin’ in the Free World” ...but be careful you obey all the rules while you’re down in that mosh pit.

    10Club is a multimillion dollar business for one of the most successful bands on the planet. Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    It’s not just the current system.  It’s really been the only system they’ve had over the years.  Other than back in the day you were limited to buying two seats to one show per tour.  So your argument that somehow success has made them less responsive to fans doesn’t really hold water.  It’s kinda always been this way.  And it’s been that way to deter scalpers and help fans.  
    1996: Randall's Island 2
    1998: East Rutherford, MSG 1 & 2
    2000: Cincinnati, Columbus, Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3, Boston 1, Camden 1 & 2
    2003: Philadelphia, Uniondale, MSG 1 & 2, Holmdel
    2005: Atlantic City 1
    2006: Camden 1, East Rutherford 1 & 2
    2008: Camden 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Newark(EV)
    2009: Philadelphia 1, 2, & 4
    2010: Newark, MSG 1 & 2
    2011: Toronto 1
    2013: Wrigley Field, Brooklyn 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Baltimore
    2015: Central Park
    2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Fenway Park 2, MSG(TOTD)
    2017: Brooklyn(RnRHOF)
  • mookieblalockmookieblalock Posts: 2,157
    tl238413 said:
     Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Actually, Ten Club DOES allow you to give your tickets away; just not to a person of your choosing. Seems your problem is not being able to hand select who the tickets go to??
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,478
    edited June 19
    They purposely made the system more restrictive this round due to rampant abuse... and there was only a small breach.  People were spamming the lotteries with buddies, spouses, significant others, etc (many of whom would not have an account unless this member served as a "marshall" for it for lottery leverage) in order to maximize chances.  Many were holding extra pairs out of the lottery for multiple shows and would simply trade those pairs for other shows... while many people who did the lottery straight up were locked out.  I'm sure in other places on the internet, people were flipping pairs into coveted merch or above face cash.

    It was getting worse as more people figured it out since the lottery and separated GA section was instituted.  People would use their good 10c numbers to go for prime reserves seats, while newer "accounts" or the poor 10c#s of a group would go directly for GA.  It got to the point in 2015 where it was comical.  The GTF sub forum was filled from the top down with "2 GA for show X, looking for 2 GA to show Y".  You also had people swapping reserved, but only for a comparable #.  People really shouldn't have "extra pairs" of 10c tickets to shows.  The system was broke (and this was still a restrictive system).

    Now, putting tickets on an app and only allowing transfer of 1 ticket to someone has restricted people from swapping (or selling) "extra pairs".  

    A less restrictive system where they allowed anyone to transfer tickets would swing the doors open to the wild west for 10c tickets, and they would be difficult to obtain without a lot of up front money or extreme luck.



    I would make a few more changes.  I would put GA and Reserved all in 1 pool (along with an option to opt out of GA).  Lottery is for tickets, and you do not know if you got GA until just before the show.  For GA line, queue up a couple hours before the show only, and do the Springsteen thing.  I also wouldn't mind ticketless entry with a credit card, but it seems they are going this route with the app.
    Post edited by MayDay10 on
  • Get_RightGet_Right Posts: 10,088
    tl238413 said:
     Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Actually, Ten Club DOES allow you to give your tickets away; just not to a person of your choosing. Seems your problem is not being able to hand select who the tickets go to??
    I have heard the 10 C gives unused tickets away but have never actually met anyone that got tickets this way.You could probably do an entire tour on donated tickets.
  • moemoe6434moemoe6434 Posts: 430
    It does make me chuckle a bit when people with more than one memberships win multiples and can’t transfer though.

    While I like the waiting list idea, but it will just further enable those in the paragraph above.  They would have nothing to lose by obtaining more memberships for more chances to win, fully knowing they can get rid of any duplicates.
    "If she don't love me no more, i know her sister will" Jimi Hendrix
  • WindowPaineWindowPaine Chicopee, MAPosts: 299
    so rules are posted, emailed, etc. 

    people buy tickets knowing these rules.

    life happens. people complain and say rules aren't fair or good enough or etc.

    hmmm...
    First Show: Springfield, MA 4/6/94
  • mookieblalockmookieblalock Posts: 2,157
    on2legs said:
    I was supposed to go on a class trip to the Statue of Liberty in 3rd grade but I had the chicken pox and couldn’t go.  My grammar school offered no refund and did not allow me to exchange my ticket with another student who could have gone in my place. I had put a lot of planning into this trip. My mom got me some cool snacks and I had a can of soda that I wrapped in tin foil to keep it cold. I wrote a letter to my principal letting her know the system was unacceptable and needed to be changed. 
    Sending you a virtual fist bump
  • bertanbertan Posts: 251
    PJNB said:
    tl238413 said:
    Very interesting to read back through this thread and hear folks rigidly defend the current system because without it things would spiral out of control and scalpers would rule the earth. Change and going against the current system would be a fiasco. “Keep on Rockin’ in the Free World” ...but be careful you obey all the rules while you’re down in that mosh pit.

    10Club is a multimillion dollar business for one of the most successful bands on the planet. Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Still waiting on your suggestion on how you get around people putting in for every show and then cancelling the ones they can no longer make because "life" got in the way. I have a feeling you would be the first person on here complaining about the odds down to single digits and not getting tickets when the draw happens when people flood their picks on every show. Face it people would abuse the system. The way it is is not perfect but it does protect us all from scalpers and people being greedy. 
    I have a suggestion, I would be interested on hearing what you think:

    - When the ticket lottery is done, there's also lottery for the waiting list. A list for the ones who could not get a ticket. If you are 10C member and you missed the lottery for some reason, you can also sign up for the waiting list and go to the end of the line.

    - Everyone has a right to return two (or maybe even one) pairs of tickets per tour, no more. This way you won't have a case of "sign up for 9 gigs, sell 8 of them", and 10C would be helping the fans a little. Losing $225 is much more preferable to losing $450. 

    - When you decide to return your ticket, it gets transferred to the first person on the waiting list. If there's nobody in the waiting list and your ticket does not end up being used, you do not get a refund.

    I believe this addresses most of the concerns mentioned here. The one thing that is hard to prevent is people asking their friends to buy tickets for themselves to increase their odds. But the thing is, even if they do that and end up returning the extra tickets, those tickets go to the next person in the waiting list. So you end up getting your tickets, just a little bit late than desired.

    No it's not perfect, there isn't a perfect system. But I feel this is a more understanding and flexible system, which is how I like my systems :D



    "hey na na na na hey that's something"

    [30.09.2006, Athens] [18.06.2007, London] [18.08.2009, London] [05.07.2014, Werchter]
  • bertanbertan Posts: 251
    tl238413 said:
     Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Actually, Ten Club DOES allow you to give your tickets away; just not to a person of your choosing. Seems your problem is not being able to hand select who the tickets go to??
    I'm not sure what you are talking about, maybe it's different with seats. But you definitely CANNOT return or exchange your GA tickets.
    "hey na na na na hey that's something"

    [30.09.2006, Athens] [18.06.2007, London] [18.08.2009, London] [05.07.2014, Werchter]
  • lolobugglolobugg BLUE RDGE MTNSPosts: 7,453
    bertan said:
    tl238413 said:
     Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Actually, Ten Club DOES allow you to give your tickets away; just not to a person of your choosing. Seems your problem is not being able to hand select who the tickets go to??
    I'm not sure what you are talking about, maybe it's different with seats. But you definitely CANNOT return or exchange your GA tickets.


    did you have tickets for tonight's show?

    if so you got lucky and might be able to make the rescheduled show or get a refund.

    livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
    1995- New Orleans, LA
    1996- Charleston, SC
    1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
    2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
    2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
    2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
    2006- Cincinnati, OH
    2008- Columbia, SC
    2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Ved- Atlanta, GA x 2
    2010- Bristow, VA
    2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Ved- Chicago, IL
    2012- Atlanta, GA
    2013- Charlotte, NC
    2014- Cincinnati, OH
    2015- New York, NY
    2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA: Raleigh, NC: Columbia, SC: Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      


  • bertanbertan Posts: 251
    lolobugg said:
    bertan said:
    tl238413 said:
     Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Actually, Ten Club DOES allow you to give your tickets away; just not to a person of your choosing. Seems your problem is not being able to hand select who the tickets go to??
    I'm not sure what you are talking about, maybe it's different with seats. But you definitely CANNOT return or exchange your GA tickets.


    did you have tickets for tonight's show?

    if so you got lucky and might be able to make the rescheduled show or get a refund.

    Yeah I did. I would love to attend the rescheduled one, but I had already "donated" the tickets as I wasn't gonna be able to attend. I hope that won't cause a problem.
    "hey na na na na hey that's something"

    [30.09.2006, Athens] [18.06.2007, London] [18.08.2009, London] [05.07.2014, Werchter]
  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 3,905
    bertan said:
    PJNB said:
    tl238413 said:
    Very interesting to read back through this thread and hear folks rigidly defend the current system because without it things would spiral out of control and scalpers would rule the earth. Change and going against the current system would be a fiasco. “Keep on Rockin’ in the Free World” ...but be careful you obey all the rules while you’re down in that mosh pit.

    10Club is a multimillion dollar business for one of the most successful bands on the planet. Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Still waiting on your suggestion on how you get around people putting in for every show and then cancelling the ones they can no longer make because "life" got in the way. I have a feeling you would be the first person on here complaining about the odds down to single digits and not getting tickets when the draw happens when people flood their picks on every show. Face it people would abuse the system. The way it is is not perfect but it does protect us all from scalpers and people being greedy. 
    I have a suggestion, I would be interested on hearing what you think:

    - When the ticket lottery is done, there's also lottery for the waiting list. A list for the ones who could not get a ticket. If you are 10C member and you missed the lottery for some reason, you can also sign up for the waiting list and go to the end of the line.

    - Everyone has a right to return two (or maybe even one) pairs of tickets per tour, no more. This way you won't have a case of "sign up for 9 gigs, sell 8 of them", and 10C would be helping the fans a little. Losing $225 is much more preferable to losing $450. 

    - When you decide to return your ticket, it gets transferred to the first person on the waiting list. If there's nobody in the waiting list and your ticket does not end up being used, you do not get a refund.

    I believe this addresses most of the concerns mentioned here. The one thing that is hard to prevent is people asking their friends to buy tickets for themselves to increase their odds. But the thing is, even if they do that and end up returning the extra tickets, those tickets go to the next person in the waiting list. So you end up getting your tickets, just a little bit late than desired.

    No it's not perfect, there isn't a perfect system. But I feel this is a more understanding and flexible system, which is how I like my systems :D



    First thing that comes to mind with your first point is what do the people do on the waiting list? They may not ever get a chance through 10 club to get tickets if someone else cancels so what are they going to do in the meantime?  They are going to try for the public sale and if they miss out they will pay second market prices to get in the building. Now they get called upon for 10 club tickets and even though they want them probably they will have to pass since they already spent money on guaranteeing tickets.

    Second point may work but would still be abused by a lot of people especially with multiple accounts available to them. Also the work 10 club would have to do to direct and organize/regulate everything would be very taxing imo. Yes it is better then having a free for all return available for abuse but still think the bad outweighs the good. 

    Third point 10 club would have to monitor a list that is not automated anymore. Contact that person, wait for that person to respond with a yes or no if they want the tickets and so on and that just for one cancelation. What do you do if the person on the wait list wants to cancel and it is there only show lets say? Do you let them cancel and the next person gets it and they want to cancel sometime too? What a headache. 


    PJ
    2013 Worcester 1 & 2
    2016 Quebec, Toronto 2, Fenway 1&2, Wrigley 2
    2018 Prague, Krakow, Berlin, Seattle 2, Wrigley 2, Fenway 1&2 

    EV
    2017 Firenze, Taormina 1 & 2
  • MayDay10MayDay10 Posts: 9,478
    edited June 19
    bertan said:
    PJNB said:
    tl238413 said:
    Very interesting to read back through this thread and hear folks rigidly defend the current system because without it things would spiral out of control and scalpers would rule the earth. Change and going against the current system would be a fiasco. “Keep on Rockin’ in the Free World” ...but be careful you obey all the rules while you’re down in that mosh pit.

    10Club is a multimillion dollar business for one of the most successful bands on the planet. Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Still waiting on your suggestion on how you get around people putting in for every show and then cancelling the ones they can no longer make because "life" got in the way. I have a feeling you would be the first person on here complaining about the odds down to single digits and not getting tickets when the draw happens when people flood their picks on every show. Face it people would abuse the system. The way it is is not perfect but it does protect us all from scalpers and people being greedy. 
    I have a suggestion, I would be interested on hearing what you think:

    - When the ticket lottery is done, there's also lottery for the waiting list. A list for the ones who could not get a ticket. If you are 10C member and you missed the lottery for some reason, you can also sign up for the waiting list and go to the end of the line.

    - Everyone has a right to return two (or maybe even one) pairs of tickets per tour, no more. This way you won't have a case of "sign up for 9 gigs, sell 8 of them", and 10C would be helping the fans a little. Losing $225 is much more preferable to losing $450. 

    - When you decide to return your ticket, it gets transferred to the first person on the waiting list. If there's nobody in the waiting list and your ticket does not end up being used, you do not get a refund.

    I believe this addresses most of the concerns mentioned here. The one thing that is hard to prevent is people asking their friends to buy tickets for themselves to increase their odds. But the thing is, even if they do that and end up returning the extra tickets, those tickets go to the next person in the waiting list. So you end up getting your tickets, just a little bit late than desired.

    No it's not perfect, there isn't a perfect system. But I feel this is a more understanding and flexible system, which is how I like my systems :D



    This isn't a great idea for a few reasons.

    First, let's just assume that show(s) will sell out of the ticket allotment.  I would say at least 90% of them do.... and all GA sections do. The "issues" and people's gaming the system normally occur on high demand shows anyways like MSG and Wrigley, not Indianapolis. There is little reason to play games if the odds are at 99% as theoretically you can make that your last choice and get the tickets.

    People will be more inclined to put in for shows they aren't certain they can attend.... or just considering on attending, and wanting to see if they can "win" the lottery.  Knowing humans, they would probably wait until the last minute to pull the chute and throw the tickets back to 10c.

    Second, this will enable people to double or triple their odds in a lottery for a show (or diversify along multiple shows) with zero drawback. Being able to return 2 pairs is even worse.

    The waiting list.... people need to make travel plans, time off of work, etc.  I would assume they would have moved on and bought seats from the public onsale.  These people likely will be sitting on tickets of their own, and being selected on a wait list would be merely an "upgrade".  Then they would have extra pairs to do what they will.  

    This system leads to over-buying.  Something the 10c tries to prevent, and something that hurts lottery odds for straight-up responsible members who just want to attend a show.


    And all this headache, logistics, formulating a wait list based on whatever criteria would qualify a member for it (it would be lists for every show), contacting/chasing/getting payment from people (setting up a point of sale url too), refunds on 10c's part, and for what?  How many people per show have a legitimate, non-preventable reason for missing a show?  

    And then, what happens when someone from the waiting list has a death in the family?  Are they going to come here and craft a new third tier system?
    Post edited by MayDay10 on
  • lolobugglolobugg BLUE RDGE MTNSPosts: 7,453
    bertan said:
    lolobugg said:
    bertan said:
    tl238413 said:
     Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Actually, Ten Club DOES allow you to give your tickets away; just not to a person of your choosing. Seems your problem is not being able to hand select who the tickets go to??
    I'm not sure what you are talking about, maybe it's different with seats. But you definitely CANNOT return or exchange your GA tickets.


    did you have tickets for tonight's show?

    if so you got lucky and might be able to make the rescheduled show or get a refund.

    Yeah I did. I would love to attend the rescheduled one, but I had already "donated" the tickets as I wasn't gonna be able to attend. I hope that won't cause a problem.

    hopefully 10club can work it out for you. been a crazy day!

    livefootsteps.org/user/?usr=446
    1995- New Orleans, LA
    1996- Charleston, SC
    1998- Atlanta, GA: Birmingham, AL: Greenville, SC: Knoxville, TN
    2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
    2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
    2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
    2006- Cincinnati, OH
    2008- Columbia, SC
    2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Ved- Atlanta, GA x 2
    2010- Bristow, VA
    2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Ved- Chicago, IL
    2012- Atlanta, GA
    2013- Charlotte, NC
    2014- Cincinnati, OH
    2015- New York, NY
    2016- Greenville, SC: Hampton, VA: Raleigh, NC: Columbia, SC: Lexington, KY: Philly, PA 2: (Wrigley) Chicago, IL x 2 (holy shit): Temple of the Dog- Philly, PA                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      


  • HesCalledDyerHesCalledDyer MarylandPosts: 11,693
    I personally like the lengthy head's up as it gives me time to plan my trip should I win the lottery.  The rules are simple, they've been the rules for years for every single show.  We're all adults who can read and comprehend (at least I'd like to think so).  I ONLY put in for shows that I know I can attend with 99.99% certainty.  If something comes up in that 0.01%, whether it's hospitalization, a new job & I can't get time off, someone asks me to be in their wedding party, death in the family, etc - it's unfortunate but that's life. It doesn't just apply to concert tickets. Shit happens that causes us to miss things all the time. Regardless, I would not expect the rules for the very, very many to change for the misfortunes of the very, very few.
    No matter what I'd be going through, it would actually lift me up knowing I could donate them back to 10C and give another fan or two an opportunity to see an awesome show with awesome seats on my behalf.  I'd hope thru some kind of happenstance I'd get to talk to that person and hear about the fun time they had.
  • bertanbertan Posts: 251
    PJNB said:
    bertan said:
    PJNB said:
    tl238413 said:
    Very interesting to read back through this thread and hear folks rigidly defend the current system because without it things would spiral out of control and scalpers would rule the earth. Change and going against the current system would be a fiasco. “Keep on Rockin’ in the Free World” ...but be careful you obey all the rules while you’re down in that mosh pit.

    10Club is a multimillion dollar business for one of the most successful bands on the planet. Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Still waiting on your suggestion on how you get around people putting in for every show and then cancelling the ones they can no longer make because "life" got in the way. I have a feeling you would be the first person on here complaining about the odds down to single digits and not getting tickets when the draw happens when people flood their picks on every show. Face it people would abuse the system. The way it is is not perfect but it does protect us all from scalpers and people being greedy. 
    I have a suggestion, I would be interested on hearing what you think:

    - When the ticket lottery is done, there's also lottery for the waiting list. A list for the ones who could not get a ticket. If you are 10C member and you missed the lottery for some reason, you can also sign up for the waiting list and go to the end of the line.

    - Everyone has a right to return two (or maybe even one) pairs of tickets per tour, no more. This way you won't have a case of "sign up for 9 gigs, sell 8 of them", and 10C would be helping the fans a little. Losing $225 is much more preferable to losing $450. 

    - When you decide to return your ticket, it gets transferred to the first person on the waiting list. If there's nobody in the waiting list and your ticket does not end up being used, you do not get a refund.

    I believe this addresses most of the concerns mentioned here. The one thing that is hard to prevent is people asking their friends to buy tickets for themselves to increase their odds. But the thing is, even if they do that and end up returning the extra tickets, those tickets go to the next person in the waiting list. So you end up getting your tickets, just a little bit late than desired.

    No it's not perfect, there isn't a perfect system. But I feel this is a more understanding and flexible system, which is how I like my systems :D



    First thing that comes to mind with your first point is what do the people do on the waiting list? They may not ever get a chance through 10 club to get tickets if someone else cancels so what are they going to do in the meantime?  They are going to try for the public sale and if they miss out they will pay second market prices to get in the building. Now they get called upon for 10 club tickets and even though they want them probably they will have to pass since they already spent money on guaranteeing tickets.

    Second point may work but would still be abused by a lot of people especially with multiple accounts available to them. Also the work 10 club would have to do to direct and organize/regulate everything would be very taxing imo. Yes it is better then having a free for all return available for abuse but still think the bad outweighs the good. 

    Third point 10 club would have to monitor a list that is not automated anymore. Contact that person, wait for that person to respond with a yes or no if they want the tickets and so on and that just for one cancelation. What do you do if the person on the wait list wants to cancel and it is there only show lets say? Do you let them cancel and the next person gets it and they want to cancel sometime too? What a headache. 


    The people on the waiting list would go for the public sale or second market tickets if they lost the lottery anyway. The waiting list does not change that, if anything it gives the another option. I would prefer if everyone would see their number on the list, so you would be able to make a decision. "There are only 6 people ahead of me, I should wait and not chase black market tickets" or "fuck this, I'm not waiting for 326 people, let's find another solution". And if it's your turn on the list and you already had bought from another seller, you can just pass on the tickets to the next one in line. I would make it so that you can either that manually, or the system does it automatically if you don't reply within 24 hours.

    I think I made my point about people with multiple accounts. When they return their extra tickets, those go to the ones in line. Like I said it's not perfect, but I believe it's preferable to what we have. It might be just me :)

    About the automation. Honestly, at this day and age, an organization as big as Pearl Jam should have the technical infrastructure to make all these things automated. People return tickets through online forms, the server automatically sends an e-mail to the person next in line, directing them to the online form. If they do not reply within 24 hours, tickets go to the next one in line... If they don't have this kind of tech, yes that would be an investment and it probably won't be cheap. But honestly, they should do it at some point, it's 2018 :)

    Sorry, I did not understand what you mean in the last two sentences.

    "hey na na na na hey that's something"

    [30.09.2006, Athens] [18.06.2007, London] [18.08.2009, London] [05.07.2014, Werchter]
  • mookieblalockmookieblalock Posts: 2,157
    bertan said:
    tl238413 said:
     Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Actually, Ten Club DOES allow you to give your tickets away; just not to a person of your choosing. Seems your problem is not being able to hand select who the tickets go to??
    I'm not sure what you are talking about, maybe it's different with seats. But you definitely CANNOT return or exchange your GA tickets.
    Did I say return or exchange? The answer is no, I did not. Re-read the thread.
  • bertanbertan Posts: 251
    MayDay10 said:
    bertan said:
    PJNB said:
    tl238413 said:
    Very interesting to read back through this thread and hear folks rigidly defend the current system because without it things would spiral out of control and scalpers would rule the earth. Change and going against the current system would be a fiasco. “Keep on Rockin’ in the Free World” ...but be careful you obey all the rules while you’re down in that mosh pit.

    10Club is a multimillion dollar business for one of the most successful bands on the planet. Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Still waiting on your suggestion on how you get around people putting in for every show and then cancelling the ones they can no longer make because "life" got in the way. I have a feeling you would be the first person on here complaining about the odds down to single digits and not getting tickets when the draw happens when people flood their picks on every show. Face it people would abuse the system. The way it is is not perfect but it does protect us all from scalpers and people being greedy. 
    I have a suggestion, I would be interested on hearing what you think:

    - When the ticket lottery is done, there's also lottery for the waiting list. A list for the ones who could not get a ticket. If you are 10C member and you missed the lottery for some reason, you can also sign up for the waiting list and go to the end of the line.

    - Everyone has a right to return two (or maybe even one) pairs of tickets per tour, no more. This way you won't have a case of "sign up for 9 gigs, sell 8 of them", and 10C would be helping the fans a little. Losing $225 is much more preferable to losing $450. 

    - When you decide to return your ticket, it gets transferred to the first person on the waiting list. If there's nobody in the waiting list and your ticket does not end up being used, you do not get a refund.

    I believe this addresses most of the concerns mentioned here. The one thing that is hard to prevent is people asking their friends to buy tickets for themselves to increase their odds. But the thing is, even if they do that and end up returning the extra tickets, those tickets go to the next person in the waiting list. So you end up getting your tickets, just a little bit late than desired.

    No it's not perfect, there isn't a perfect system. But I feel this is a more understanding and flexible system, which is how I like my systems :D



    This isn't a great idea for a few reasons.

    First, let's just assume that show(s) will sell out of the ticket allotment.  I would say at least 90% of them do.... and all GA sections do. The "issues" and people's gaming the system normally occur on high demand shows anyways like MSG and Wrigley, not Indianapolis. There is little reason to play games if the odds are at 99% as theoretically you can make that your last choice and get the tickets.

    People will be more inclined to put in for shows they aren't certain they can attend.... or just considering on attending, and wanting to see if they can "win" the lottery.  Knowing humans, they would probably wait until the last minute to pull the chute and throw the tickets back to 10c.

    Second, this will enable people to double or triple their odds in a lottery for a show (or diversify along multiple shows) with zero drawback. Being able to return 2 pairs is even worse.

    The waiting list.... people need to make travel plans, time off of work, etc.  I would assume they would have moved on and bought seats from the public onsale.  These people likely will be sitting on tickets of their own, and being selected on a wait list would be merely an "upgrade".  Then they would have extra pairs to do what they will.  

    This system leads to over-buying.  Something the 10c tries to prevent, and something that hurts lottery odds for straight-up responsible members who just want to attend a show.


    And all this headache, logistics, formulating a wait list based on whatever criteria would qualify a member for it (it would be lists for every show), contacting/chasing/getting payment from people (setting up a point of sale url too), refunds on 10c's part, and for what?  How many people per show have a legitimate, non-preventable reason for missing a show?  

    And then, what happens when someone from the waiting list has a death in the family?  Are they going to come here and craft a new third tier system?
    You are right about people not pulling the chute until the last minute. To encourage early returns, I would suggest an automated system where the refund you get decreases as you wait longer. You start with 100 percent, and it slowly decreases from that. If you decide to return them the day before the gig, you can get a maximum of 30 percent refund. I realise this is getting more complex by the minute, and I'm not happy with that. I'm just questioning if there's a better way, with all these investments I guess there's no cheap way. That's for sure.

    I wouldn't call it "zero drawback", as you can only return one pair. If you get six, you are at least stuck with five. So it's not a "free for all".

    I tried to explain it in my previous post. The waiting list is just an option. If you lose the lottery, you'll try the public sale anyway. The waiting list gives you another option. If they buy other tickets and their turn in the waiting list comes up, they can just pass it on to the next one in line. They are not obliged to buy.

    I'll have to admit, as we dug more this did not turn out to be the easy fix I hoped for. But that's what a healthy discussion is for. I still believe we might find something more flexible than our current system, but it definitely would require serious time and investment to get it going.
    "hey na na na na hey that's something"

    [30.09.2006, Athens] [18.06.2007, London] [18.08.2009, London] [05.07.2014, Werchter]
  • bertanbertan Posts: 251
    lolobugg said:
    bertan said:
    lolobugg said:
    bertan said:
    tl238413 said:
     Not allowing members to give away their tickets or sell them to other members for face value when “life comes up” is a disservice to the community and against the very spirit of why we were drawn to the music to begin with...
    Actually, Ten Club DOES allow you to give your tickets away; just not to a person of your choosing. Seems your problem is not being able to hand select who the tickets go to??
    I'm not sure what you are talking about, maybe it's different with seats. But you definitely CANNOT return or exchange your GA tickets.


    did you have tickets for tonight's show?

    if so you got lucky and might be able to make the rescheduled show or get a refund.

    Yeah I did. I would love to attend the rescheduled one, but I had already "donated" the tickets as I wasn't gonna be able to attend. I hope that won't cause a problem.

    hopefully 10club can work it out for you. been a crazy day!
    Thank you! Hopefully that will be the case, fingers crossed :)
    "hey na na na na hey that's something"

    [30.09.2006, Athens] [18.06.2007, London] [18.08.2009, London] [05.07.2014, Werchter]
  • D-RodD-Rod Posts: 243
    on2legs said:
    I was supposed to go on a class trip to the Statue of Liberty in 3rd grade but I had the chicken pox and couldn’t go.  My grammar school offered no refund and did not allow me to exchange my ticket with another student who could have gone in my place. I had put a lot of planning into this trip. My mom got me some cool snacks and I had a can of soda that I wrapped in tin foil to keep it cold. I wrote a letter to my principal letting her know the system was unacceptable and needed to be changed. 
    I have 2 rules in my house that I tell my 2 boys all the time.   Rule #1 “ life isn’t fair”.    Rule #2 see rule #1.   Hey  “on2legs” were doing a family trip to New York in a couple weeks.  Your welcome to join us at the Statue.   Piss on those chicken pox
    Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto 1996
    Copp's Coliseum, Hamilton 2005
    Air Canada Centre 1, Toronto 2011
    Air Canada Centre 2, Toronto 2011
    Copp's Coliseum, Hamilton 2011
    Budweiser Gardens, London 2013
    First Niagara Centre, Buffalo 2013
    Joe Louis Arena, Detroit 2014
    Air Canada Centre 1, Toronto 2016
    Air Canada Centre 2, Toronto 2016
    Fenway Park 1, Boston 2016
    Fenway park 2, Boston 2016
    Wrigley Field 1, Chicago 2016
    Safeco Field 1, Seattle 2018
    Safeco Field 2, Seattle 2018 
  • D-RodD-Rod Posts: 243

    D-Rod said:
    on2legs said:
    I was supposed to go on a class trip to the Statue of Liberty in 3rd grade but I had the chicken pox and couldn’t go.  My grammar school offered no refund and did not allow me to exchange my ticket with another student who could have gone in my place. I had put a lot of planning into this trip. My mom got me some cool snacks and I had a can of soda that I wrapped in tin foil to keep it cold. I wrote a letter to my principal letting her know the system was unacceptable and needed to be changed. 
    I have 2 rules in my house that I tell my 2 boys all the time.   Rule #1 “ life isn’t fair”.    Rule #2 see rule #1.   Hey  “on2legs” were doing a family trip to New York in a couple weeks.  Your welcome to join us at the Statue.   Piss on those chicken pox
    And a tin foil soda will be waiting for you
    Maple Leaf Gardens, Toronto 1996
    Copp's Coliseum, Hamilton 2005
    Air Canada Centre 1, Toronto 2011
    Air Canada Centre 2, Toronto 2011
    Copp's Coliseum, Hamilton 2011
    Budweiser Gardens, London 2013
    First Niagara Centre, Buffalo 2013
    Joe Louis Arena, Detroit 2014
    Air Canada Centre 1, Toronto 2016
    Air Canada Centre 2, Toronto 2016
    Fenway Park 1, Boston 2016
    Fenway park 2, Boston 2016
    Wrigley Field 1, Chicago 2016
    Safeco Field 1, Seattle 2018
    Safeco Field 2, Seattle 2018 
  • deadendpdeadendp Northeast OhioPosts: 7,293
    D-Rod said:

    D-Rod said:
    on2legs said:
    I was supposed to go on a class trip to the Statue of Liberty in 3rd grade but I had the chicken pox and couldn’t go.  My grammar school offered no refund and did not allow me to exchange my ticket with another student who could have gone in my place. I had put a lot of planning into this trip. My mom got me some cool snacks and I had a can of soda that I wrapped in tin foil to keep it cold. I wrote a letter to my principal letting her know the system was unacceptable and needed to be changed. 
    I have 2 rules in my house that I tell my 2 boys all the time.   Rule #1 “ life isn’t fair”.    Rule #2 see rule #1.   Hey  “on2legs” were doing a family trip to New York in a couple weeks.  Your welcome to join us at the Statue.   Piss on those chicken pox
    And a tin foil soda will be waiting for you
    :smiley:
    2014: Cincinnati
    2016: Lexington and Wrigley 1
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 42,202
    .... Is that tin foil and paper towel around a can of soda thing real?? Do people really do that, and does it really work? I have never heard of this before! :pensive:
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • on2legson2legs The Jersey ShorePosts: 7,191
    D-Rod said:

    D-Rod said:
    on2legs said:
    I was supposed to go on a class trip to the Statue of Liberty in 3rd grade but I had the chicken pox and couldn’t go.  My grammar school offered no refund and did not allow me to exchange my ticket with another student who could have gone in my place. I had put a lot of planning into this trip. My mom got me some cool snacks and I had a can of soda that I wrapped in tin foil to keep it cold. I wrote a letter to my principal letting her know the system was unacceptable and needed to be changed. 
    I have 2 rules in my house that I tell my 2 boys all the time.   Rule #1 “ life isn’t fair”.    Rule #2 see rule #1.   Hey  “on2legs” were doing a family trip to New York in a couple weeks.  Your welcome to join us at the Statue.   Piss on those chicken pox
    And a tin foil soda will be waiting for you
    Lol.  I’m in.  Hopefully the merch lines there aren’t too long.  I want to grab a poster and shirt!
    1996: Randall's Island 2
    1998: East Rutherford, MSG 1 & 2
    2000: Cincinnati, Columbus, Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3, Boston 1, Camden 1 & 2
    2003: Philadelphia, Uniondale, MSG 1 & 2, Holmdel
    2005: Atlantic City 1
    2006: Camden 1, East Rutherford 1 & 2
    2008: Camden 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Newark(EV)
    2009: Philadelphia 1, 2, & 4
    2010: Newark, MSG 1 & 2
    2011: Toronto 1
    2013: Wrigley Field, Brooklyn 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Baltimore
    2015: Central Park
    2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Fenway Park 2, MSG(TOTD)
    2017: Brooklyn(RnRHOF)
  • on2legson2legs The Jersey ShorePosts: 7,191
    PJ_Soul said:
    .... Is that tin foil and paper towel around a can of soda thing real?? Do people really do that, and does it really work? I have never heard of this before! :pensive:
    Yes... it’s a real thing that we used to do as kids.  Although never tried the paper towel.  However, the actual insulating properties of tin foil is dubious at best.  But you didn’t want to be the oddball with no tin foil on your soda.  
    1996: Randall's Island 2
    1998: East Rutherford, MSG 1 & 2
    2000: Cincinnati, Columbus, Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3, Boston 1, Camden 1 & 2
    2003: Philadelphia, Uniondale, MSG 1 & 2, Holmdel
    2005: Atlantic City 1
    2006: Camden 1, East Rutherford 1 & 2
    2008: Camden 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Newark(EV)
    2009: Philadelphia 1, 2, & 4
    2010: Newark, MSG 1 & 2
    2011: Toronto 1
    2013: Wrigley Field, Brooklyn 2, Philadelphia 1 & 2, Baltimore
    2015: Central Park
    2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2, MSG 1 & 2, Fenway Park 2, MSG(TOTD)
    2017: Brooklyn(RnRHOF)
  • given2fly23given2fly23 Evanston, ILPosts: 4,436
    I personally like the lengthy head's up as it gives me time to plan my trip should I win the lottery.  The rules are simple, they've been the rules for years for every single show.  We're all adults who can read and comprehend (at least I'd like to think so).  I ONLY put in for shows that I know I can attend with 99.99% certainty.  If something comes up in that 0.01%, whether it's hospitalization, a new job & I can't get time off, someone asks me to be in their wedding party, death in the family, etc - it's unfortunate but that's life. It doesn't just apply to concert tickets. Shit happens that causes us to miss things all the time. Regardless, I would not expect the rules for the very, very many to change for the misfortunes of the very, very few.
    No matter what I'd be going through, it would actually lift me up knowing I could donate them back to 10C and give another fan or two an opportunity to see an awesome show with awesome seats on my behalf.  I'd hope thru some kind of happenstance I'd get to talk to that person and hear about the fun time they had.
    Agree.  I hope they keep it as-is.  The risk is explained when you enter the lottery.  If you are not willing to take that risk, then buy through the general sale.
    Found: Soundgarden Hyde Park DVD (Thank you for the gift!)
    Posters for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/117469/posters-for-sale
    T-Shirts for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/149289/pj-t-shirt-trade-or-sale
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