Silencing Opposing Speech

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Comments

  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 12,207
    In an ideal world I would be all for simply ignoring conspiracy trolls such as Alex Jones. But we all know the world is far from ideal, and in this world Alex Jones has the ear of the President of the United States. His brand of conspiracy mongering is dangerous and has done real damage to this country. I think we ignore him at our own peril.

    https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2017/05/03/guide-donald-trump-s-relationship-alex-jones/216263

    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,402
    unsung said:
    Case in point.

    I didn't say anything about the First Amendment and the fight against govt.

    Yeah, a private company can decide what is on its platform, but it doesn't change the fact that anything right of Elizabeth Warren is often deleted.

    And not one of you even bothered to have a discussion, instead you all go mob style to discredit and silence instead of attempting any meaningful conversation.

    No surprise though.  The alt-left are the real fascists.

    silencing someone often has the adverse affect anyway. it can only embolden his supporters and strengthen their resolve and justify their thought processes. let someone have their say (as long as its legal), and don't give them a reason to be vindicated in their views. 

    he probably secretly would love to be banned. he'd make headlines all over the country. his ratings would skyrocket, at least in the short term. 

    they aren't fascists. they are sick and tired of people like alex jones. but censoring/silencing him would be a mistake. 
    What ratings? Youtube is his biggest platform. He loses that he loses a lot of influence. He goes the way of Bill O'Reilly. He knows this.



    https://gizmodo.com/one-strike-away-from-youtube-ban-alex-jones-begs-parkl-1823365098
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 15,237
    by "ratings" I meant subscribers/hits on his website. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,694
    benjs said:
    brianlux said:
    Unless he says something false about an individual or makes threats on YouTube, I'd have to say a ban is not a good idea.  But who watches that creep anyway?  If he were ignored, he would go away.  Just don't  watch dumb shit. 
    Brian,
    Not sure why, but I found your comment fascinating. I was reading a book recently that proposed that businesses looking to innovate operate on a “meritocracy of thought” (a term I immediately loved). Your comment struck a chord where it feels like you’re suggesting that should be applied in society, and I’d tend to agree (and forgive me if I misread it).

    It’s our right and responsibility to update thinking in the citizenry. Unfortunately, an abundance of ignorance, ego, and uneducated/miseducated people make this kind of “societal oversight” necessity. If those traits were diminished, people wouldn’t need the explicit conversation to make up their own minds on what is true and what holds value vs. the opposite. I still feel at the end of the day, education and the ability to participate in logical debate to opine based on that logic are the missing ingredients to combat Alex Jones. A societal focus on logic-based debating remove divisiveness by exposing people to varying opinions and where they come from (which promotes empathy), and would result in a wider acceptable spectrum of thoughts, I feel.
    Focusing on education is key here, Ben.  That truly seems to be what is missing in the US in general.  We have fallen low on education and as a result, people like Jones and Trump are more than just footnotes of minor neuroses in what would be an otherwise fairly sane country.  Instead, we find ourselves general  quite insane and absurd. 
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,694
    JimmyV said:
    In an ideal world I would be all for simply ignoring conspiracy trolls such as Alex Jones. But we all know the world is far from ideal, and in this world Alex Jones has the ear of the President of the United States. His brand of conspiracy mongering is dangerous and has done real damage to this country. I think we ignore him at our own peril.

    https://www.mediamatters.org/research/2017/05/03/guide-donald-trump-s-relationship-alex-jones/216263

    I agree, Jimmy, we can't just ignore these people.  But like I said above, education is the key.  We are in desperate need of a better educated population capable of critical thinking.  We are slipping further and further away from that and deeper and deeper into a low functioning state of ineptitude.
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • RoleModelsinBlood31RoleModelsinBlood31 Austin TXPosts: 4,158
    Well I’m glad he hasn’t mentioned my name or business because Alex and I have had our share of issues.  I threw a stack of his infowars mags onto the hood of his pickup and exchanged vulgarities and middle fingers with him at 5am several years ago after he kept dropping his shitty propaganda off at my restaurant even after I told him we didn’t want it.  He still comes in and acts like it never happened, but I haven’t seen him the last few months 
    I'm like an opening band for your mom.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 6,975
    unsung said:
    Case in point.

    I didn't say anything about the First Amendment and the fight against govt.

    Yeah, a private company can decide what is on its platform, but it doesn't change the fact that anything right of Elizabeth Warren is often deleted.

    And not one of you even bothered to have a discussion, instead you all go mob style to discredit and silence instead of attempting any meaningful conversation.

    No surprise though.  The alt-left are the real fascists.

    It was a pretty feeble troll attempt by you, which fits the look at liberal hypocrisy theme of a lot of your posts. People get banned, threads get closed, and stuff gets deleted. Right, left, middle. It doesn’t matter. 
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 7,232
    mickeyrat said:
    benjs said:
    brianlux said:
    Unless he says something false about an individual or makes threats on YouTube, I'd have to say a ban is not a good idea.  But who watches that creep anyway?  If he were ignored, he would go away.  Just don't  watch dumb shit. 
    Brian,
    Not sure why, but I found your comment fascinating. I was reading a book recently that proposed that businesses looking to innovate operate on a “meritocracy of thought” (a term I immediately loved). Your comment struck a chord where it feels like you’re suggesting that should be applied in society, and I’d tend to agree (and forgive me if I misread it).

    It’s our right and responsibility to update thinking in the citizenry. Unfortunately, an abundance of ignorance, ego, and uneducated/miseducated people make this kind of “societal oversight” necessity. If those traits were diminished, people wouldn’t need the explicit conversation to make up their own minds on what is true and what holds value vs. the opposite. I still feel at the end of the day, education and the ability to participate in logical debate to opine based on that logic are the missing ingredients to combat Alex Jones. A societal focus on logic-based debating remove divisiveness by exposing people to varying opinions and where they come from (which promotes empathy), and would result in a wider acceptable spectrum of thoughts, I feel.
    what you say sounds good, in an ideal world.

    in the US. now , kids are taught to take standardized tests. very little by way of critical thinking seems shown in schools because of that.  this goes back 30 years although the testing has increased since. so acritical piece is missing in your premise, critical thought. we are a lazy people on the whole, its easier to jump to conclusions and base judgement on emotion rather than thoughful consideration.

    as always , I appreciate your contributions here.
    Unfortunately, I know you're right. It's a scary trajectory, and it seems to be going in a downward spiral.
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  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 24,694
    Well I’m glad he hasn’t mentioned my name or business because Alex and I have had our share of issues.  I threw a stack of his infowars mags onto the hood of his pickup and exchanged vulgarities and middle fingers with him at 5am several years ago after he kept dropping his shitty propaganda off at my restaurant even after I told him we didn’t want it.  He still comes in and acts like it never happened, but I haven’t seen him the last few months 
    Good for you!  Plus, that makes a good story!
    "Love and only love will break it down"
    -Neil Young
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.





  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,380
    Well I’m glad he hasn’t mentioned my name or business because Alex and I have had our share of issues.  I threw a stack of his infowars mags onto the hood of his pickup and exchanged vulgarities and middle fingers with him at 5am several years ago after he kept dropping his shitty propaganda off at my restaurant even after I told him we didn’t want it.  He still comes in and acts like it never happened, but I haven’t seen him the last few months 
    Ugh. Hard to believe he’s a real person who goes into restaurants. I’m glad you threw him and his crap out. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 11,248
    Well I’m glad he hasn’t mentioned my name or business because Alex and I have had our share of issues.  I threw a stack of his infowars mags onto the hood of his pickup and exchanged vulgarities and middle fingers with him at 5am several years ago after he kept dropping his shitty propaganda off at my restaurant even after I told him we didn’t want it.  He still comes in and acts like it never happened, but I haven’t seen him the last few months 
    :clap:
    :triumph:
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  • Merkin BallerMerkin Baller Posts: 2,996
    Talib Kweli wrote a pretty interesting piece about the “paradox of self victimization by the alt right” regarding freedom of speech. 
    https://twitter.com/brooklynmarie/status/969746473104519169?s=21

  • dignindignin Posts: 6,402
    Image result for alex jones horse
  • dignindignin Posts: 6,402
    Talib Kweli wrote a pretty interesting piece about the “paradox of self victimization by the alt right” regarding freedom of speech. 
    https://twitter.com/brooklynmarie/status/969746473104519169?s=21
    Some great points in there.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,380
    dignin said:
    Talib Kweli wrote a pretty interesting piece about the “paradox of self victimization by the alt right” regarding freedom of speech. 
    https://twitter.com/brooklynmarie/status/969746473104519169?s=21
    Some great points in there.

    Yes. I think this last paragraph neatly sums up what for me is the most important idea, and why I don't have any issue at all with Alex Jones potentially being banned from YouTube, a private company.

    Freedom of speech in America simply means the government cannot arrest you for what you say. This I agree with. This doesn’t mean I must tolerate or listen to what you have to say, and it doesn’t mean that your misinformed opinions must be treated as fact or with respect, either in the flesh or on social media. The First Amendment does not protect you from criticism or protest of your ideas. If what you choose to say or write gets you banned from a community, yelled at, fired from your job, or called mean names, your right to free speech is not being violated. You are just receiving the karmic consequences of using your free speech to advocate for hate. There are places in the world where free speech is truly being suppressed. Your Twitter account is not one of them.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 3,334

  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 15,837
    Smellyman said:

    “Social engineered.” It happens. Huh, huh.
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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 15,837
    Poor, poor, poor Devin Nunes. He’s so very upset about the opposition. Yo! Devin, you fucking traitor, own some responsibility, yo! Blaming comedians as the greatest threat to our democracy? Were you in the PTAPE too?

    Devin Nunes Calls Colbert's Jokes About Him A 'Danger' In This Country - HuffPost https://apple.news/AO2leLLyzRGup8Mq24GRa4g
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

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  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 12,207
    unsung said:
    So Alex Jones is apparently a strike away from being banned on youtube, supposedly there is an organized reporting campaign flooding youtube to forcefully remove him.

    I don't listen to Alex Jones but I believe this is dangerous territory. 

    I know Alex Jones is known to be of the Conspiracy mindset, but I feel he has made some worthwhile points on some common issues, but he comes across as the boy who cried wolf.

    I have not known him to be called a racist, or promoting hate speech, he certainly demonizes anyone who criticizes Jews, and he doesn't appear to be alt-right (although definitions of that seem to be varying).

    So what is it?  Why the fear in what he has to say?  If he is a known conspiracy theorist then why not just ignore him?

    I think I know the answer.  I believe the fear is that the left doesn't want any forms of communication to exist that doesn't conform 100% with the agenda.

    Tragically the left used to be the group that fought for free speech, not it seems to be all about silencing any opposing opinion.
    Alex Jones, back at it again.


    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 5,281
    edited March 28
    JimmyV said:
    unsung said:
    So Alex Jones is apparently a strike away from being banned on youtube, supposedly there is an organized reporting campaign flooding youtube to forcefully remove him.

    I don't listen to Alex Jones but I believe this is dangerous territory. 

    I know Alex Jones is known to be of the Conspiracy mindset, but I feel he has made some worthwhile points on some common issues, but he comes across as the boy who cried wolf.

    I have not known him to be called a racist, or promoting hate speech, he certainly demonizes anyone who criticizes Jews, and he doesn't appear to be alt-right (although definitions of that seem to be varying).

    So what is it?  Why the fear in what he has to say?  If he is a known conspiracy theorist then why not just ignore him?

    I think I know the answer.  I believe the fear is that the left doesn't want any forms of communication to exist that doesn't conform 100% with the agenda.

    Tragically the left used to be the group that fought for free speech, not it seems to be all about silencing any opposing opinion.
    Alex Jones, back at it again.


    F#&king fearful, hateful, ignorant, anti-Semitic a$$hole.
    And that  goes for his supporters/believers as well
    Post edited by Bentleyspop on
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 42,571
    JimmyV said:
    unsung said:
    So Alex Jones is apparently a strike away from being banned on youtube, supposedly there is an organized reporting campaign flooding youtube to forcefully remove him.

    I don't listen to Alex Jones but I believe this is dangerous territory. 

    I know Alex Jones is known to be of the Conspiracy mindset, but I feel he has made some worthwhile points on some common issues, but he comes across as the boy who cried wolf.

    I have not known him to be called a racist, or promoting hate speech, he certainly demonizes anyone who criticizes Jews, and he doesn't appear to be alt-right (although definitions of that seem to be varying).

    So what is it?  Why the fear in what he has to say?  If he is a known conspiracy theorist then why not just ignore him?

    I think I know the answer.  I believe the fear is that the left doesn't want any forms of communication to exist that doesn't conform 100% with the agenda.

    Tragically the left used to be the group that fought for free speech, not it seems to be all about silencing any opposing opinion.
    Alex Jones, back at it again.


    Could she not sue him for slander over this?
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 12,071
    PJ_Soul said:
    JimmyV said:
    unsung said:
    So Alex Jones is apparently a strike away from being banned on youtube, supposedly there is an organized reporting campaign flooding youtube to forcefully remove him.

    I don't listen to Alex Jones but I believe this is dangerous territory. 

    I know Alex Jones is known to be of the Conspiracy mindset, but I feel he has made some worthwhile points on some common issues, but he comes across as the boy who cried wolf.

    I have not known him to be called a racist, or promoting hate speech, he certainly demonizes anyone who criticizes Jews, and he doesn't appear to be alt-right (although definitions of that seem to be varying).

    So what is it?  Why the fear in what he has to say?  If he is a known conspiracy theorist then why not just ignore him?

    I think I know the answer.  I believe the fear is that the left doesn't want any forms of communication to exist that doesn't conform 100% with the agenda.

    Tragically the left used to be the group that fought for free speech, not it seems to be all about silencing any opposing opinion.
    Alex Jones, back at it again.


    Could she not sue him for slander over this?
    I'm sure she has more important things to do. 
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,197
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 15,837
    unsung said:
    Who pays for facetard?
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  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 12,207
    unsung said:
    Yeah, we really are overrun by liberals defending Facebook these days. You've truly got your finger on the pulse of the nation.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 6,975
    Someone email Allie and let her know who anti-discrimination laws cover and also what a false equivalency is.  
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 42,571
    Someone email Allie and let her know who anti-discrimination laws cover and also what a false equivalency is.  

    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 8,380
    Could we maybe get proof that fb is discriminating against conservatives? I’d like to see that proof. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 42,571
    Well if they do discriminate against conservatives, they are really, really bad at discriminating, lol. Last I heard, facebook was used as a tool by conservatives to influence the presidential election in the GOP's favour.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 6,975
    I think that might be referencing Facebook filtering out more pro-conservative news or apparently having a pro-liberal bias in the the little news feed that’s off to the right that I ignore. I think conservatives are upset that facebook is delivering content that correlates with their audience values. 
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