I think you may be using the term “cognitive dissonance” in a non-traditional way.
I was thinking that, too. And probably over-relying on political labels as central to a discussion, rather than being able to talk about a single subject or policy.
I think you may be using the term “cognitive dissonance” in a non-traditional way.
That was a very polite way of putting it
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,691
Labels just cause more hate and lead to fewer constructive actions- why I'm not a fan of labels. Call me anything but late to dinner.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I think you may be using the term “cognitive dissonance” in a non-traditional way.
I was thinking that, too. And probably over-relying on political labels as central to a discussion, rather than being able to talk about a single subject or policy.
I would love to talk policies, which one? Democrats taking corporate money like the Republicans? Democrats advocating for military occupation and conflicts like the Republicans? Democrats supporting the Big Banks just like the Republicans? Democrats against free college just like the Republicans? Democrats supporting Big Business over small businesses just like the Republicans? Democrats supporting fracking just like the Republicans? Democrats supporting the private for profit prison industry just like the Republicans? Democrats against Universal Health Care just like the Republicans? so aside from a few issues they are almost the same party
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
I think you may be using the term “cognitive dissonance” in a non-traditional way.
I was thinking that, too. And probably over-relying on political labels as central to a discussion, rather than being able to talk about a single subject or policy.
I would love to talk policies, which one? Democrats taking corporate money like the Republicans? Democrats advocating for military occupation and conflicts like the Republicans? Democrats supporting the Big Banks just like the Republicans? Democrats against free college just like the Republicans? Democrats supporting Big Business over small businesses just like the Republicans? Democrats supporting fracking just like the Republicans? Democrats supporting the private for profit prison industry just like the Republicans? Democrats against Universal Health Care just like the Republicans? so aside from a few issues they are almost the same party
You're making sweeping generalizations and characterizing any one group or person based on whether or not they take the exact opposite stance. In order to be progressive you're going to have to work your way to the sought after goal. Just because I don't call for a ban on all firearms or drive a car doesn't mean I'm the same as someone who wants all guns legal and believes in cruising just for the hell of it.
The kind of immediate change you are seeking can only come in an autocracy or dictatorship, which thankfully we don't live in.
"Change don't come at once It's a wave building before it breaks"
yeah pretty much, the country would be much better with Libertarians & Democrats like FDR, and get rid of all the corporate warmongers, oh and I forgot both parties strongly oppose term limits, which would be one of the greatest helps
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,691
In my opinion, neither are doing enough. Which party has stopped endless war? Which party has at least acknowledged Earth Overshoot Day? Which US party has carried through with lowering our carbon output to 350 PPM? Which party has opposed the for profit prison system? Which party has ended fracking? Etc.
Neither.
Some of you don't care for the way BBH has presented his viewpoints but regardless, I think he makes some good and irrefutable point about how neither party is making a big difference. I don't understand why more here don't support the message, if not the messenger.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
In my opinion, neither are doing enough. Which party has stopped endless war? Which party has at least acknowledged Earth Overshoot Day? Which US party has carried through with lowering our carbon output to 350 PPM? Which party has opposed the for profit prison system? Which party has ended fracking? Etc.
Neither.
Some of you don't care for the way BBH has presented his viewpoints but regardless, I think he makes some good and irrefutable point about how neither party is making a big difference. I don't understand why more here don't support the message, if not the messenger.
There are more center-left voters than far/alt-left voters. Change will happen by engaging moderates, not the fringe lunatics.
Few things were more enjoyable than watching conservatives cannibalize and sabotage themselves by embracing the Tea Party. Few things benefit the GOP more than driving democrats to vote third party.
Both sides may not be great, but one is objectively worse by nearly every measure. The United States has a two-party system and you aren't going to upend that structure by running a third-party candidate and expecting to win the presidency. It's simply not going to happen.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,691
In my opinion, neither are doing enough. Which party has stopped endless war? Which party has at least acknowledged Earth Overshoot Day? Which US party has carried through with lowering our carbon output to 350 PPM? Which party has opposed the for profit prison system? Which party has ended fracking? Etc.
Neither.
Some of you don't care for the way BBH has presented his viewpoints but regardless, I think he makes some good and irrefutable point about how neither party is making a big difference. I don't understand why more here don't support the message, if not the messenger.
There are more center-left voters than far/alt-left voters. Change will happen by engaging moderates, not the fringe lunatics.
Few things were more enjoyable than watching conservatives cannibalize and sabotage themselves by embracing the Tea Party. Few things benefit the GOP more than driving democrats to vote third party.
Both sides may not be great, but one is objectively worse by nearly every measure. The United States has a two-party system and you aren't going to upend that structure by running a third-party candidate and expecting to win the presidency. It's simply not going to happen.
I agree with most of your points here. I only voted third party in 2016 because I'm in California and I could afford to (Hillary had the e.c. votes in the bag). I would love to be able to proudly say I'm a democrat but not until they stop playing footsy with big agra, big money, big corporate control and stop being so ineffective and compromising on environment. Especially the latter. Compromising on environment is literally suicidal. Our CA dem governor supports fracking. And I'm supposed to support that? Bah!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
In my opinion, neither are doing enough. Which party has stopped endless war? Which party has at least acknowledged Earth Overshoot Day? Which US party has carried through with lowering our carbon output to 350 PPM? Which party has opposed the for profit prison system? Which party has ended fracking? Etc.
Neither.
Some of you don't care for the way BBH has presented his viewpoints but regardless, I think he makes some good and irrefutable point about how neither party is making a big difference. I don't understand why more here don't support the message, if not the messenger.
There are more center-left voters than far/alt-left voters. Change will happen by engaging moderates, not the fringe lunatics.
Few things were more enjoyable than watching conservatives cannibalize and sabotage themselves by embracing the Tea Party. Few things benefit the GOP more than driving democrats to vote third party.
Both sides may not be great, but one is objectively worse by nearly every measure. The United States has a two-party system and you aren't going to upend that structure by running a third-party candidate and expecting to win the presidency. It's simply not going to happen.
I agree with most of your points here. I only voted third party in 2016 because I'm in California and I could afford to (Hillary had the e.c. votes in the bag). I would love to be able to proudly say I'm a democrat but not until they stop playing footsy with big agra, big money, big corporate control and stop being so ineffective and compromising on environment. Especially the latter. Compromising on environment is literally suicidal. Our CA dem governor supports fracking. And I'm supposed to support that? Bah!
LOL, the Democratic Party in California has a super majority, and they had a chance to get universal health care, and what did they do? They hired Eric Bauman, Bauman has been criticized for his ties to California's pharmaceutical industry. He has lobbied against Proposition 61 which would have prohibited the state from buying drugs that are more expensive that price the Department of Veterans Affairs pays.This criticism has re-emerged following his election to become Chair of the California Democratic Party. This has all but assured that there will be no consideration for single payer.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,691
In my opinion, neither are doing enough. Which party has stopped endless war? Which party has at least acknowledged Earth Overshoot Day? Which US party has carried through with lowering our carbon output to 350 PPM? Which party has opposed the for profit prison system? Which party has ended fracking? Etc.
Neither.
Some of you don't care for the way BBH has presented his viewpoints but regardless, I think he makes some good and irrefutable point about how neither party is making a big difference. I don't understand why more here don't support the message, if not the messenger.
There are more center-left voters than far/alt-left voters. Change will happen by engaging moderates, not the fringe lunatics.
Few things were more enjoyable than watching conservatives cannibalize and sabotage themselves by embracing the Tea Party. Few things benefit the GOP more than driving democrats to vote third party.
Both sides may not be great, but one is objectively worse by nearly every measure. The United States has a two-party system and you aren't going to upend that structure by running a third-party candidate and expecting to win the presidency. It's simply not going to happen.
I agree with most of your points here. I only voted third party in 2016 because I'm in California and I could afford to (Hillary had the e.c. votes in the bag). I would love to be able to proudly say I'm a democrat but not until they stop playing footsy with big agra, big money, big corporate control and stop being so ineffective and compromising on environment. Especially the latter. Compromising on environment is literally suicidal. Our CA dem governor supports fracking. And I'm supposed to support that? Bah!
LOL, the Democratic Party in California has a super majority, and they had a chance to get universal health care, and what did they do? They hired Eric Bauman, Bauman has been criticized for his ties to California's pharmaceutical industry. He has lobbied against Proposition 61 which would have prohibited the state from buying drugs that are more expensive that price the Department of Veterans Affairs pays.This criticism has re-emerged following his election to become Chair of the California Democratic Party. This has all but assured that there will be no consideration for single payer.
People have such misconceptions about California! Cracks me up. But we are more progressive than Texas or Alabama, LOL.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
In my opinion, neither are doing enough. Which party has stopped endless war? Which party has at least acknowledged Earth Overshoot Day? Which US party has carried through with lowering our carbon output to 350 PPM? Which party has opposed the for profit prison system? Which party has ended fracking? Etc.
Neither.
Some of you don't care for the way BBH has presented his viewpoints but regardless, I think he makes some good and irrefutable point about how neither party is making a big difference. I don't understand why more here don't support the message, if not the messenger.
There are more center-left voters than far/alt-left voters. Change will happen by engaging moderates, not the fringe lunatics.
Few things were more enjoyable than watching conservatives cannibalize and sabotage themselves by embracing the Tea Party. Few things benefit the GOP more than driving democrats to vote third party.
Both sides may not be great, but one is objectively worse by nearly every measure. The United States has a two-party system and you aren't going to upend that structure by running a third-party candidate and expecting to win the presidency. It's simply not going to happen.
I agree with most of your points here. I only voted third party in 2016 because I'm in California and I could afford to (Hillary had the e.c. votes in the bag). I would love to be able to proudly say I'm a democrat but not until they stop playing footsy with big agra, big money, big corporate control and stop being so ineffective and compromising on environment. Especially the latter. Compromising on environment is literally suicidal. Our CA dem governor supports fracking. And I'm supposed to support that? Bah!
LOL, the Democratic Party in California has a super majority, and they had a chance to get universal health care, and what did they do? They hired Eric Bauman, Bauman has been criticized for his ties to California's pharmaceutical industry. He has lobbied against Proposition 61 which would have prohibited the state from buying drugs that are more expensive that price the Department of Veterans Affairs pays.This criticism has re-emerged following his election to become Chair of the California Democratic Party. This has all but assured that there will be no consideration for single payer.
People have such misconceptions about California! Cracks me up. But we are more progressive than Texas or Alabama, LOL.
well I would certainly hope so, lol, and I used to live in California, way back in the day
yeah pretty much, the country would be much better with Libertarians & Democrats like FDR, and get rid of all the corporate warmongers, oh and I forgot both parties strongly oppose term limits, which would be one of the greatest helps
Libertarians?? How on earth do you reconcile a supposed progressive agenda with that? Do you think there’s any chance that libertarians support universal health care, environmental protections, higher minimum wage or any of the other issues you claim to be in favour of?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
yeah pretty much, the country would be much better with Libertarians & Democrats like FDR, and get rid of all the corporate warmongers, oh and I forgot both parties strongly oppose term limits, which would be one of the greatest helps
Libertarians?? How on earth do you reconcile a supposed progressive agenda with that? Do you think there’s any chance that libertarians support universal health care, environmental protections, higher minimum wage or any of the other issues you claim to be in favour of?
No but they would be a far better alternative on the Right than Republicans
yeah pretty much, the country would be much better with Libertarians & Democrats like FDR, and get rid of all the corporate warmongers, oh and I forgot both parties strongly oppose term limits, which would be one of the greatest helps
Libertarians?? How on earth do you reconcile a supposed progressive agenda with that? Do you think there’s any chance that libertarians support universal health care, environmental protections, higher minimum wage or any of the other issues you claim to be in favour of?
No but they would be a far better alternative on the Right than Republicans
Far better based on what?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
yeah pretty much, the country would be much better with Libertarians & Democrats like FDR, and get rid of all the corporate warmongers, oh and I forgot both parties strongly oppose term limits, which would be one of the greatest helps
Libertarians?? How on earth do you reconcile a supposed progressive agenda with that? Do you think there’s any chance that libertarians support universal health care, environmental protections, higher minimum wage or any of the other issues you claim to be in favour of?
No but they would be a far better alternative on the Right than Republicans
Far better based on what?
Ron Paul is a Libertarian even though he was a Republican in congress, but fundamentally he is, and he is far better than any Republican in Washington
yeah pretty much, the country would be much better with Libertarians & Democrats like FDR, and get rid of all the corporate warmongers, oh and I forgot both parties strongly oppose term limits, which would be one of the greatest helps
Libertarians?? How on earth do you reconcile a supposed progressive agenda with that? Do you think there’s any chance that libertarians support universal health care, environmental protections, higher minimum wage or any of the other issues you claim to be in favour of?
No but they would be a far better alternative on the Right than Republicans
Far better based on what?
Ron Paul is a Libertarian even though he was a Republican in congress, but fundamentally he is, and he is far better than any Republican in Washington
Far better based on what, and what makes you think that he would be typical of libertarians?
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
In my opinion, neither are doing enough. Which party has stopped endless war? Which party has at least acknowledged Earth Overshoot Day? Which US party has carried through with lowering our carbon output to 350 PPM? Which party has opposed the for profit prison system? Which party has ended fracking? Etc.
Neither.
Some of you don't care for the way BBH has presented his viewpoints but regardless, I think he makes some good and irrefutable point about how neither party is making a big difference. I don't understand why more here don't support the message, if not the messenger.
There are more center-left voters than far/alt-left voters. Change will happen by engaging moderates, not the fringe lunatics.
Few things were more enjoyable than watching conservatives cannibalize and sabotage themselves by embracing the Tea Party. Few things benefit the GOP more than driving democrats to vote third party.
Both sides may not be great, but one is objectively worse by nearly every measure. The United States has a two-party system and you aren't going to upend that structure by running a third-party candidate and expecting to win the presidency. It's simply not going to happen.
I agree with most of your points here. I only voted third party in 2016 because I'm in California and I could afford to (Hillary had the e.c. votes in the bag). I would love to be able to proudly say I'm a democrat but not until they stop playing footsy with big agra, big money, big corporate control and stop being so ineffective and compromising on environment. Especially the latter. Compromising on environment is literally suicidal. Our CA dem governor supports fracking. And I'm supposed to support that? Bah!
It's nice that you live in CA and could afford to vote 3rd party. But don't you think that affects voters in other states?
Someone in PA or MI might look at the polls and see however many people voting 3rd party in CA and be persuaded to do the same, or sit out altogether. The GOP loves it when people vote 3rd party, doesn't matter the state.
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Comments
Democrats taking corporate money like the Republicans?
Democrats advocating for military occupation and conflicts like the Republicans?
Democrats supporting the Big Banks just like the Republicans?
Democrats against free college just like the Republicans?
Democrats supporting Big Business over small businesses just like the Republicans?
Democrats supporting fracking just like the Republicans?
Democrats supporting the private for profit prison industry just like the Republicans?
Democrats against Universal Health Care just like the Republicans?
so aside from a few issues they are almost the same party
The kind of immediate change you are seeking can only come in an autocracy or dictatorship, which thankfully we don't live in.
"Change don't come at once
It's a wave building before it breaks"
www.cluthelee.com
www.cluthe.com
Neither.
Some of you don't care for the way BBH has presented his viewpoints but regardless, I think he makes some good and irrefutable point about how neither party is making a big difference. I don't understand why more here don't support the message, if not the messenger.
Few things were more enjoyable than watching conservatives cannibalize and sabotage themselves by embracing the Tea Party. Few things benefit the GOP more than driving democrats to vote third party.
https://mobile.twitter.com/Redistrict/status/804407177368715265
Both sides may not be great, but one is objectively worse by nearly every measure. The United States has a two-party system and you aren't going to upend that structure by running a third-party candidate and expecting to win the presidency. It's simply not going to happen.
Would love to hear from others here who live in countries with more than two parties. Tell us what you think!
Far better based on what?
Someone in PA or MI might look at the polls and see however many people voting 3rd party in CA and be persuaded to do the same, or sit out altogether. The GOP loves it when people vote 3rd party, doesn't matter the state.