Oregonians Freaking Out About Having To Pump Their Own Gas

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Comments

  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 12,581
    yeah, I have no idea where this "all tips are reported" stuff comes from. Reported to whom? The government? Or the establishment they work at? Either one, I know for a fact, working in a restaurant for several years, that this simply is not even close to accurate. 

    In all my years, I came across one waitress, ONE, who reported her tips as taxable income. ONE. And that was most likely because she was married and her husband had a good job, so she could afford to do that. She waitressed only to save cash for their wedding. After that, she quit. 

    And I also caught several who didn't accurately report how many tips they got so when it was time to "tip out" they didn't have to give as much to the cooks. 
  • HorosHoros Posts: 4,164
    #FHP
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,831
    I also don't get the idea that minimum wage should match the cost of living/livable wage for that area. Since when is it a right to live in the most expensive cities in the country?
    I lived in San Diego for several years. Know why I moved? Couldn't afford it.
    My wife lived in NYC for 5 years. Know why she moved? Couldn't afford it.
    If you can't afford it on whatever job you have, obviously you don't have a job tying you down preventing you from moving to a more affordable location.
    It is no one's right to live near a sandy beach. If there's a federal minimum wage for $10 and you have no skills, education or experience to get a better job, what is wrong with moving to a place you can afford?
    I've done it, my parents have done it, my wife has done it. Numerous friends have done it. What is wrong with that?
    I just don't get why employers should be forced to pay a wage that would allow you to live in a city you can't afford based on the skills you have. It isn't your right to live in Los Angeles, if you can;t afford it move an hour away where the cost of living is literally 1/3.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 6,549
    mace1229 said:
    I also don't get the idea that minimum wage should match the cost of living/livable wage for that area. Since when is it a right to live in the most expensive cities in the country?
    I lived in San Diego for several years. Know why I moved? Couldn't afford it.
    My wife lived in NYC for 5 years. Know why she moved? Couldn't afford it.
    If you can't afford it on whatever job you have, obviously you don't have a job tying you down preventing you from moving to a more affordable location.
    It is no one's right to live near a sandy beach. If there's a federal minimum wage for $10 and you have no skills, education or experience to get a better job, what is wrong with moving to a place you can afford?
    I've done it, my parents have done it, my wife has done it. Numerous friends have done it. What is wrong with that?
    I just don't get why employers should be forced to pay a wage that would allow you to live in a city you can't afford based on the skills you have. It isn't your right to live in Los Angeles, if you can;t afford it move an hour away where the cost of living is literally 1/3.
    Cities simply can't function if no one who earns only minimum wage can live there. How do you run a city when you have no one to wash the dishes, clean the hotel rooms and office buildings, work in the coffee shops and grocery stores and, yes, gas stations? It's completely short sighted to say that these jobs, some full time, shouldn't pay enough to at least scrape by. No one is saying that wages for these jobs should be enough to make life easy in a larger city, but if they aren't possible then the city as a whole struggles. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,831
    edited January 5
    mace1229 said:
    I also don't get the idea that minimum wage should match the cost of living/livable wage for that area. Since when is it a right to live in the most expensive cities in the country?
    I lived in San Diego for several years. Know why I moved? Couldn't afford it.
    My wife lived in NYC for 5 years. Know why she moved? Couldn't afford it.
    If you can't afford it on whatever job you have, obviously you don't have a job tying you down preventing you from moving to a more affordable location.
    It is no one's right to live near a sandy beach. If there's a federal minimum wage for $10 and you have no skills, education or experience to get a better job, what is wrong with moving to a place you can afford?
    I've done it, my parents have done it, my wife has done it. Numerous friends have done it. What is wrong with that?
    I just don't get why employers should be forced to pay a wage that would allow you to live in a city you can't afford based on the skills you have. It isn't your right to live in Los Angeles, if you can;t afford it move an hour away where the cost of living is literally 1/3.
    Cities simply can't function if no one who earns only minimum wage can live there. How do you run a city when you have no one to wash the dishes, clean the hotel rooms and office buildings, work in the coffee shops and grocery stores and, yes, gas stations? It's completely short sighted to say that these jobs, some full time, shouldn't pay enough to at least scrape by. No one is saying that wages for these jobs should be enough to make life easy in a larger city, but if they aren't possible then the city as a whole struggles. 
    Well if there aren't enough interest in the low wage jobs, then the employer would be forced to offer more money to fill them. Nothing wrong with that if the demand is there. But all those big cities seem to be doing fine and function well without (or before) a minimum wage of $15.
    It just comes across to me that when it is said people can't live in those big cities at those prices, that it is somehow a right to live there, and would be inhumane to expect someone to move where they can afford. And yes, some of those jobs are full time and the primary source of income, but many are not. There's no need to pay a 16 year old kid a livable wage when that is not his intent of working.
    And if you struggle at $10/hour living in LA, move less than an hour away to Lancaster where the cost of rent is literally about 1/3, and cost of owning a home is literally about 1/10.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 38,343
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Can't you just judge it by seeing how much they get in tips? All tips are reported, so it should be pretty clear. Tips definitely reflect the quality of service of pretty well, generally. And if a server worked his or her ass off on a table and didn't get tipped anyway because the customers are assholes, that is something the entire staff finds out about immediately. Not that I'm against customer feedback cards, but the problem with those is that the huge majority of them are only completed when the customers have a problem, not when the service is very good, and those problems are often related to things that have nothing to do with the quality of the job done by their server. Plus the majority of customers just don't feel like giving feedback because they are too lazy. I think tips are actually a more reliable gauge than customer feedback cards are.
    I've known a lot of waiters or others who earned tips, and almost none of them reported tips accurately. Only the ones required to because they shared it with the chef or whomever, and even then it was sometimes questionable. But most weren't required too, and only about 1/10 of what they earned was reported on taxes.
    I actually never worked in a place where the a percentage of the server and bartender tips weren't shared with the kitchen and hosting staff, and because tips generally reflect the sales for the night, nobody risked cheating (at least not by any significant or meaningful amount). They wouldn't have gotten away with it. That is a very standard policy for any reputable restaurant or bar in this part of the world. Sounds like the waiters you know worked in some pretty unprofessional places. You're right about the tax part though. Literally nobody ever declared tips on their taxes, and the government didn't monitor it at all. That is why, fairly recently, the CRA cracked down on it - few people where I am are now neglecting to report their tips because they'll likely get busted immediately. I'm glad that wasn't the case when I worked in the industry, haha. ;)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 38,343
    edited January 5
    yeah, I have no idea where this "all tips are reported" stuff comes from. Reported to whom? The government? Or the establishment they work at? Either one, I know for a fact, working in a restaurant for several years, that this simply is not even close to accurate. 

    In all my years, I came across one waitress, ONE, who reported her tips as taxable income. ONE. And that was most likely because she was married and her husband had a good job, so she could afford to do that. She waitressed only to save cash for their wedding. After that, she quit. 

    And I also caught several who didn't accurately report how many tips they got so when it was time to "tip out" they didn't have to give as much to the cooks. 
    New laws in BC require reporting for tax purposes now, but that is new - maybe only a couple years has the CRA started cracking down on this. Before that I never once met any server who declared them. I don't think it even occurred to anyone at the time I worked in the industry. Otherwise, they are reported by way of distribution to other staff. Servers cash out, report all their sales and whatever is left over is tips. Then a percentage of those are given to management so they can distribute it to the kitchen. I worked in many different places, and yes, it was pretty accurate, and I know that for a fact, lol. ;) Of course there are some establishments packed full of completely dishonest scumbags, but there are also a lot of places that aren't, and I fortunately only worked for places like that.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,831
    edited January 5
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Can't you just judge it by seeing how much they get in tips? All tips are reported, so it should be pretty clear. Tips definitely reflect the quality of service of pretty well, generally. And if a server worked his or her ass off on a table and didn't get tipped anyway because the customers are assholes, that is something the entire staff finds out about immediately. Not that I'm against customer feedback cards, but the problem with those is that the huge majority of them are only completed when the customers have a problem, not when the service is very good, and those problems are often related to things that have nothing to do with the quality of the job done by their server. Plus the majority of customers just don't feel like giving feedback because they are too lazy. I think tips are actually a more reliable gauge than customer feedback cards are.
    I've known a lot of waiters or others who earned tips, and almost none of them reported tips accurately. Only the ones required to because they shared it with the chef or whomever, and even then it was sometimes questionable. But most weren't required too, and only about 1/10 of what they earned was reported on taxes.
    I actually never worked in a place where the a percentage of the server and bartender tips weren't shared with the kitchen and hosting staff, and because tips generally reflect the sales for the night, nobody risked cheating (at least not by any significant or meaningful amount). They wouldn't have gotten away with it. That is a very standard policy for any reputable restaurant or bar in this part of the world. Sounds like the waiters you know worked in some pretty unprofessional places. You're right about the tax part though. Literally nobody ever declared tips on their taxes, and the government didn't monitor it at all. That is why, fairly recently, the CRA cracked down on it - few people where I am are now neglecting to report their tips because they'll likely get busted immediately. I'm glad that wasn't the case when I worked in the industry, haha. ;)
    Well I was lumping anyone who received tips together. I had some friends in high school and college that were pizza delivery boys or things like that. They didn't split it, and half the time they made the pizza too.
    And most restaurants yes did split with cooks and others, but most would admit if they got a huge tip, they might pocket $10 of it for themselves on a pretty regular basis. Like if there was a big party with a $400 bill and they tipped $100, they'd pocket a $10 or $20 of it. 
    Probably a lot harder to do now that almost everyone pays with card, was much easier 15 years ago when a lot of people still paid cash.
    I've never worked in a restaurant, but most of my friends would admit to that.
    Maybe I just have shady friends. 
    Post edited by mace1229 on
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon WinnipegPosts: 12,581
    PJ_Soul said:
    yeah, I have no idea where this "all tips are reported" stuff comes from. Reported to whom? The government? Or the establishment they work at? Either one, I know for a fact, working in a restaurant for several years, that this simply is not even close to accurate. 

    In all my years, I came across one waitress, ONE, who reported her tips as taxable income. ONE. And that was most likely because she was married and her husband had a good job, so she could afford to do that. She waitressed only to save cash for their wedding. After that, she quit. 

    And I also caught several who didn't accurately report how many tips they got so when it was time to "tip out" they didn't have to give as much to the cooks. 
    New laws in BC require reporting for tax purposes now, but that is new - maybe only a couple years has the CRA started cracking down on this. Otherwise, they are reported by way of distribution to other staff. Servers cash out, report all their sales and whatever is left over is tips. Then a percentage of those are given to management so they can distribute it to the kitchen. I worked in many different places, and yes, it was pretty accurate, and I know that for a fact, lol. ;) Of course there are some establishments packed full of completely dishonest scumbags, but there are also a lot of places that aren't, and I fortunately only worked for places like that.
    I didn't work at a chain restaurant, and this was well before the interac machines brought to the table. people paid up at the register, so there was no way to know which waitress sold what. and they simply counted their tips at the end of their shift, and were expected to give 10% to the kitchen staff directly. it wasn't monitored by anyone. complete honour system. some bitches stiffed us hard, others were fair, and a select few gave more as they recognized that their tips were a reflection on not just her performance, but mine as well. 
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 38,343
    edited January 5
    PJ_Soul said:
    yeah, I have no idea where this "all tips are reported" stuff comes from. Reported to whom? The government? Or the establishment they work at? Either one, I know for a fact, working in a restaurant for several years, that this simply is not even close to accurate. 

    In all my years, I came across one waitress, ONE, who reported her tips as taxable income. ONE. And that was most likely because she was married and her husband had a good job, so she could afford to do that. She waitressed only to save cash for their wedding. After that, she quit. 

    And I also caught several who didn't accurately report how many tips they got so when it was time to "tip out" they didn't have to give as much to the cooks. 
    New laws in BC require reporting for tax purposes now, but that is new - maybe only a couple years has the CRA started cracking down on this. Otherwise, they are reported by way of distribution to other staff. Servers cash out, report all their sales and whatever is left over is tips. Then a percentage of those are given to management so they can distribute it to the kitchen. I worked in many different places, and yes, it was pretty accurate, and I know that for a fact, lol. ;) Of course there are some establishments packed full of completely dishonest scumbags, but there are also a lot of places that aren't, and I fortunately only worked for places like that.
    I didn't work at a chain restaurant, and this was well before the interac machines brought to the table. people paid up at the register, so there was no way to know which waitress sold what. and they simply counted their tips at the end of their shift, and were expected to give 10% to the kitchen staff directly. it wasn't monitored by anyone. complete honour system. some bitches stiffed us hard, others were fair, and a select few gave more as they recognized that their tips were a reflection on not just her performance, but mine as well. 
    Yeah, I'm talking about back in the 90s when credit cards and debit cards were used (not at the table), but not nearly as often, and I did work for a couple of chain places, but I also worked for non-chain places. They were all on the up and up, and the staff was generally honest, or at least scared of being caught. It was a HUGE no-no to be dishonest about it - it would get you first hated by everyone, and then fired. People like the bitches who stiffed you wouldn't have lasted a week. I'm glad I didn't work with a bunch of creeps who ripped off their co-workers, geez.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 21,734
    Horos said:
    :lol:
    I went up through Oregon one year on my way to Washington and stopped in this little town for gas.  This gristly looking dude came up to my, glanced at my license plate and sneered, "From California, eh?"  I thought he was going to knife me or somethings.  Now it's true I was born in CA and lived here most of my life but have also lived elsewhere so I said, "Yeah, and Washington, New York , Pennsylvania..."  He just kind of grunted and spat on the ground. I said "Yeah, you have a nice day too!"  :lol:
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 6,549
    Unbeknownst to me, this is apparently a thing close to home. 

    http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/richmond-coquitlam-soldier-on-with-decades-old-ban-on-self-serve-gas-pumps

    Richmond is a municipality immediately beside Vancouver (and the location of the airport), while Coquitlam is further out. Even though I drive to and from Vancouver fairly often I have never filled up in either, so had no idea they still prohibited self-serve. Initial stated reasons (in 1966!!) were related to safety, but as has been mentioned on here, more recently the issue of youth employment was raised.

    I'm not sure when I last heard of someone causing a fire or explosion at a self-serve station, though. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 11,056
    Do they pump your gas for you in Tillicum?
    Berkeley 10/31/93,Indio 11/5/93,San Diego 11/7/95,Irvine 6/3/03,LA 7/10/06,Universal City 10/7/09,Long Beach 7/6/11 (EV),Vancouver 9/25/11, Philly 9/2/12,Wrigley 7/19/13,Philly 1 & 2,10/21/13,10/22/13, Cincy 10/1/14, GCF 9/26/15, Philly 1/2 4/28/16, 4/29/16, MSG 1/2 5/1/16, 5/2/16, Fenway2 8/7/16, R&RHoF 4/7/17
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 6,549
    Do they pump your gas for you in Tillicum?

    There's a whole lotta pumping going on in Tillicum.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 38,343
    Unbeknownst to me, this is apparently a thing close to home. 

    http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/richmond-coquitlam-soldier-on-with-decades-old-ban-on-self-serve-gas-pumps

    Richmond is a municipality immediately beside Vancouver (and the location of the airport), while Coquitlam is further out. Even though I drive to and from Vancouver fairly often I have never filled up in either, so had no idea they still prohibited self-serve. Initial stated reasons (in 1966!!) were related to safety, but as has been mentioned on here, more recently the issue of youth employment was raised.

    I'm not sure when I last heard of someone causing a fire or explosion at a self-serve station, though. 
    The fire thing was from the 60s. They no longer use that to justify it. It's just about youth employment now.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,813
    edited January 5
    When I first moved to Oregon I stopped at a gas station, proceeded to fill my tank and an attendant came running out screaming bloody murder at me.  I literally thought I almost blew up the joint based on his reaction.  Had no idea about Oregon gas pumping laws. 

    I was was more confused than Steve Martin in "The Jerk" when he thought that shooter hated cans ...


    Post edited by Jason P on
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 11,056
    Do they pump your gas for you in Tillicum?

    There's a whole lotta pumping going on in Tillicum.
    Takes a lot, some days.  Other days?  Just a bit.
    Berkeley 10/31/93,Indio 11/5/93,San Diego 11/7/95,Irvine 6/3/03,LA 7/10/06,Universal City 10/7/09,Long Beach 7/6/11 (EV),Vancouver 9/25/11, Philly 9/2/12,Wrigley 7/19/13,Philly 1 & 2,10/21/13,10/22/13, Cincy 10/1/14, GCF 9/26/15, Philly 1/2 4/28/16, 4/29/16, MSG 1/2 5/1/16, 5/2/16, Fenway2 8/7/16, R&RHoF 4/7/17
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,831
    Jason P said:
    When I first moved to Oregon I stopped at a gas station, proceeded to fill my tank and an attendant came running out screaming bloody murder at me.  I literally that I almost blew up the joint based on his reaction.  Had no idea about Oregon gas pumping laws. 

    I was was more confused than Steve Martin in "The Jerk" when he thought that shooter hated cans ...


    "I have a special purpose!"
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 16,813
  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 10,384
    Do they pump your gas for you in Tillicum?

    There's a whole lotta pumping going on in Tillicum.
    Takes a lot, some days.  Other days?  Just a bit.
    I hear that a two-pump chump is in town.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 11,056
    dankind said:
    Do they pump your gas for you in Tillicum?

    There's a whole lotta pumping going on in Tillicum.
    Takes a lot, some days.  Other days?  Just a bit.
    I hear that a two-pump chump is in town.
    Sometimes the gas it out before even being inserted into the car. 

    Berkeley 10/31/93,Indio 11/5/93,San Diego 11/7/95,Irvine 6/3/03,LA 7/10/06,Universal City 10/7/09,Long Beach 7/6/11 (EV),Vancouver 9/25/11, Philly 9/2/12,Wrigley 7/19/13,Philly 1 & 2,10/21/13,10/22/13, Cincy 10/1/14, GCF 9/26/15, Philly 1/2 4/28/16, 4/29/16, MSG 1/2 5/1/16, 5/2/16, Fenway2 8/7/16, R&RHoF 4/7/17
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 6,549
    dankind said:
    Do they pump your gas for you in Tillicum?

    There's a whole lotta pumping going on in Tillicum.
    Takes a lot, some days.  Other days?  Just a bit.
    I hear that a two-pump chump is in town.
    Sometimes the gas it out before even being inserted into the car. 

    Speaking from experience?
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 21,734
    Let old Neil fill 'er up for ya!

    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 11,056
    dankind said:
    Do they pump your gas for you in Tillicum?

    There's a whole lotta pumping going on in Tillicum.
    Takes a lot, some days.  Other days?  Just a bit.
    I hear that a two-pump chump is in town.
    Sometimes the gas it out before even being inserted into the car. 

    Speaking from experience?
    Some days are better than others!  ;)
    Berkeley 10/31/93,Indio 11/5/93,San Diego 11/7/95,Irvine 6/3/03,LA 7/10/06,Universal City 10/7/09,Long Beach 7/6/11 (EV),Vancouver 9/25/11, Philly 9/2/12,Wrigley 7/19/13,Philly 1 & 2,10/21/13,10/22/13, Cincy 10/1/14, GCF 9/26/15, Philly 1/2 4/28/16, 4/29/16, MSG 1/2 5/1/16, 5/2/16, Fenway2 8/7/16, R&RHoF 4/7/17
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,847
    mace1229 said:
    rgambs said:
    The US is such a weird country. 
    Not being able to pump your own gas could be the premise of a Twilight Zone episode. 
    Yep.
    America, where you can buy an assault rifle at the gas station, but you can't pump your own gas lol
    Serious question, is that a real thing?
    I've never seen it or even heard of a gas station selling guns. But I didn't know private party sales were legal without a background check or going through a licensed dealer until a few years ago because I've always lived where private party sales and "gun show loopholes" were illegal. 
    Nah, just joking.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,847
    PJ_Soul said:
    mace1229 said:
    Always thought that law was stupid. Have family in Oregon and I feel like such a waste of time. If you go at off hours there might only be 1 person working the store who has to run in to work the cash register, back out to pump, help other customers. I've waited over 10 minutes to just get the pump started before.
    You go at busy times they might have more employees, but then there's a line of people waiting. I've almost never found it convenient. 
    And for those who lived in OR their whole life and don't know how to do it, I would imagine every gas station will have a full service option for years to come. I remember most gas stations in California had a full service lane until the mid 90's they faded out when no one used them.
    I do prefer stations that have both self-serve and full-serve. Having a choice is always nice..... That said, y'all should gtfo of your cars when at all possible and this wouldn't be an issue. ;)
    Hey now, you city folk that think you're slick walking to work ain't got it all figured out, everything in your life has to be shipped to you because major metropoli like Vancouver produce very little food and material goods. 
    Your carbon footprint might not be as small as you think it is :wink:
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 9,847
    mace1229 said:
    I also don't get the idea that minimum wage should match the cost of living/livable wage for that area. Since when is it a right to live in the most expensive cities in the country?
    I lived in San Diego for several years. Know why I moved? Couldn't afford it.
    My wife lived in NYC for 5 years. Know why she moved? Couldn't afford it.
    If you can't afford it on whatever job you have, obviously you don't have a job tying you down preventing you from moving to a more affordable location.
    It is no one's right to live near a sandy beach. If there's a federal minimum wage for $10 and you have no skills, education or experience to get a better job, what is wrong with moving to a place you can afford?
    I've done it, my parents have done it, my wife has done it. Numerous friends have done it. What is wrong with that?
    I just don't get why employers should be forced to pay a wage that would allow you to live in a city you can't afford based on the skills you have. It isn't your right to live in Los Angeles, if you can;t afford it move an hour away where the cost of living is literally 1/3.
    Cities simply can't function if no one who earns only minimum wage can live there. How do you run a city when you have no one to wash the dishes, clean the hotel rooms and office buildings, work in the coffee shops and grocery stores and, yes, gas stations? It's completely short sighted to say that these jobs, some full time, shouldn't pay enough to at least scrape by. No one is saying that wages for these jobs should be enough to make life easy in a larger city, but if they aren't possible then the city as a whole struggles. 
    Good!  Down with cities!  Death to cities! 
    People need to spread the fuck out and learn how to live locally.  Humanity needed major cities to reach the level of civilization we have, but we have instant worldwide communication now, and we need to shift our population models to reflect that.
    Fewer people, spread out across sustaining environments needs to be the future, if there is to be one for us at all.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 13,548
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    I also don't get the idea that minimum wage should match the cost of living/livable wage for that area. Since when is it a right to live in the most expensive cities in the country?
    I lived in San Diego for several years. Know why I moved? Couldn't afford it.
    My wife lived in NYC for 5 years. Know why she moved? Couldn't afford it.
    If you can't afford it on whatever job you have, obviously you don't have a job tying you down preventing you from moving to a more affordable location.
    It is no one's right to live near a sandy beach. If there's a federal minimum wage for $10 and you have no skills, education or experience to get a better job, what is wrong with moving to a place you can afford?
    I've done it, my parents have done it, my wife has done it. Numerous friends have done it. What is wrong with that?
    I just don't get why employers should be forced to pay a wage that would allow you to live in a city you can't afford based on the skills you have. It isn't your right to live in Los Angeles, if you can;t afford it move an hour away where the cost of living is literally 1/3.
    Cities simply can't function if no one who earns only minimum wage can live there. How do you run a city when you have no one to wash the dishes, clean the hotel rooms and office buildings, work in the coffee shops and grocery stores and, yes, gas stations? It's completely short sighted to say that these jobs, some full time, shouldn't pay enough to at least scrape by. No one is saying that wages for these jobs should be enough to make life easy in a larger city, but if they aren't possible then the city as a whole struggles. 
    Good!  Down with cities!  Death to cities! 
    People need to spread the fuck out and learn how to live locally.  Humanity needed major cities to reach the level of civilization we have, but we have instant worldwide communication now, and we need to shift our population models to reflect that.
    Fewer people, spread out across sustaining environments needs to be the future, if there is to be one for us at all.
    real good read called Tribe:On Homecoming and Belonging speaks to this while addressing vets issues upon return. worth the time and its a quick.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 6,276
    rgambs said:
    mace1229 said:
    I also don't get the idea that minimum wage should match the cost of living/livable wage for that area. Since when is it a right to live in the most expensive cities in the country?
    I lived in San Diego for several years. Know why I moved? Couldn't afford it.
    My wife lived in NYC for 5 years. Know why she moved? Couldn't afford it.
    If you can't afford it on whatever job you have, obviously you don't have a job tying you down preventing you from moving to a more affordable location.
    It is no one's right to live near a sandy beach. If there's a federal minimum wage for $10 and you have no skills, education or experience to get a better job, what is wrong with moving to a place you can afford?
    I've done it, my parents have done it, my wife has done it. Numerous friends have done it. What is wrong with that?
    I just don't get why employers should be forced to pay a wage that would allow you to live in a city you can't afford based on the skills you have. It isn't your right to live in Los Angeles, if you can;t afford it move an hour away where the cost of living is literally 1/3.
    Cities simply can't function if no one who earns only minimum wage can live there. How do you run a city when you have no one to wash the dishes, clean the hotel rooms and office buildings, work in the coffee shops and grocery stores and, yes, gas stations? It's completely short sighted to say that these jobs, some full time, shouldn't pay enough to at least scrape by. No one is saying that wages for these jobs should be enough to make life easy in a larger city, but if they aren't possible then the city as a whole struggles. 
    Good!  Down with cities!  Death to cities! 
    People need to spread the fuck out and learn how to live locally.  Humanity needed major cities to reach the level of civilization we have, but we have instant worldwide communication now, and we need to shift our population models to reflect that.
    Fewer people, spread out across sustaining environments needs to be the future, if there is to be one for us at all.
    Fewer people will happen, but we have to get over the hump in the meantime.
  • I've been reading the thread. There are some good posts.

    Some of the reasons behind removing workers from pumping gas is for their safety. Gas attendants have been injured/killed pumping gas for losers during 'gas and dashes'. Prepaid gas is the way to go and automation works best for this in my mind.

    Moving to automation might remove a few minimum wage jobs, but it creates better paying jobs in the form of technicians and designers (among others).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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