The End of DACA?

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Comments

  • mace1229 said:
    Also what's interesting is the commonly accepted notion the illegal immigration is a problem, but only based on the fact that it's against the law. If I want the government to make it a priority to do something, I want the problem to be clearly defined. In this case, what "problems" do illegals create? What's the financial loss vs. econimic gain by having them here? I haven't been able to find it, and when I've asked in here, someone posted a link citing arrests of illegals in Texas, and that was it. 
    Every country enforces their boarders. Why can't we?
    All the celebrities talking about moving to Canada. Well guess what, you have to speak English or French to get it, and even then, it is much harder.
    You havent seen an impact of immigration? Schools.
    Schools are over crowded and underfunded. We have embarassingly low test scores. And where are the lowest performing and most overcrowded schools? Usually areas with high immigration.
    I'm not saying immigration is the only problem with school, and if we kick out the Mexicans we'd be at the top. But it is definitely a contributing factor when classrooms built to hold 25 kids now have 45. The focus of teaching is now reaching those who speak little English, nearly every training and professional development isnt about how to make the kids excell, but how to teach those with limited English. When kids get thrown into the 8th grade because of their age, but they have a 3rd grade education because of where they came from.
    I'm not saying kicking them out is the answer, but anyone who cant see it affects the entire community is blind.
    And why/how should we be responsible for others when we are currently failing our own kids? Figure out how to get our education system back on track before we try to be an open book to the world.

    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    Why do people keep bringing up Europe? They are such a tiny small fraction of the immigration problem. If you look at the top 10 countries of immigration, none are from Europe. I don't think any of the top 20 are even.
    Why is there a need to deny that the immigration exists from a few select countries? Mexico and Central America account for the vast majority of our legal and illegal immigration, so why would we focus on Europe?

    You wouldnt suggest a solution to the gun problem is to outlaw a single-action 6 shooter would you? No, because thats like 0.1% of the crime.

    Why only focus on half the problem?
    According to Wikipedia, Europe is 8.2% of our immigration. So by ignoring Europe, we are still focusing on 92% of the problem.
    Makes total sense to me to focus on the biggest factors first. Mexico and Central America make up most of the illegal immigration, so we should focus on that first. Try one solution at a time, we cant solve it all at once.

    I noticed that when you referred to Europe, you stated "immigration." Yet, when you referred to Mexico and Central America, you stated "illegal immigration." Are there no illegal immigrants from Europe and conversely, is there no immigration from Central and South America, assuming "immigration" is the legal kind?
    You're being ridiculous. No one can pose a differing opinion without you twisting words into something they aren't. g

    High school graduation rates:

    https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_coi.asp

    College attendance by race:

    https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator_cpa.asp

    While true that immigrants start off slow when attending public school, they quickly catch up and excel. Basically performing as well as native born. DACA applicants stats are well above the averages in employment, education attainment and not committing crime. They have to be or they lose their status.

    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 5,991
    edited September 8
    tbergs said:
    Weeds illegal in a lot of places. If that law isn't enforced, is that a problem?
    Yes. Why do we have a law if it isn't going to be monitored and enforced? Seems like a silly question.
    The question is about motives. Is smoking weed a problem? No. So the problem is that we have a law, so it must be enforced. But what problem is the law combating? What problems are immigration laws combating?
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 2,947
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    Why do people keep bringing up Europe? They are such a tiny small fraction of the immigration problem. If you look at the top 10 countries of immigration, none are from Europe. I don't think any of the top 20 are even.
    Why is there a need to deny that the immigration exists from a few select countries? Mexico and Central America account for the vast majority of our legal and illegal immigration, so why would we focus on Europe?

    You wouldnt suggest a solution to the gun problem is to outlaw a single-action 6 shooter would you? No, because thats like 0.1% of the crime.

    Why only focus on half the problem?
    According to Wikipedia, Europe is 8.2% of our immigration. So by ignoring Europe, we are still focusing on 92% of the problem.
    Makes total sense to me to focus on the biggest factors first. Mexico and Central America make up most of the illegal immigration, so we should focus on that first. Try one solution at a time, we cant solve it all at once.

    I noticed that when you referred to Europe, you stated "immigration." Yet, when you referred to Mexico and Central America, you stated "illegal immigration." Are there no illegal immigrants from Europe and conversely, is there no immigration from Central and South America, assuming "immigration" is the legal kind?
    You're being ridiculous. No one can pose a differing opinion without you twisting words into something they aren't. 

    Why is asking for clarification of terminology being used ridiculous? How am I twisting words? Mace made two different references to the same issue. What's really ridiculous is your inability to see that race factors into almost everything, from immigration to law enforcement and sentencing to consumer loans, housing, education, healthcare, environmental policy, etc, etc. etc. and that you get butt hurt when I point that out. The thread title is DACA, not immigration in general but I'm happy to discuss both.
    Ah, the classic butthurt label. Nope, but thanks anyway. I didn't say racism doesn't exist within all the areas you mentioned because it obviously does. I'm just offering that it's not necessarily always the reason an action is taken or not taken. 
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • tbergs said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    Why do people keep bringing up Europe? They are such a tiny small fraction of the immigration problem. If you look at the top 10 countries of immigration, none are from Europe. I don't think any of the top 20 are even.
    Why is there a need to deny that the immigration exists from a few select countries? Mexico and Central America account for the vast majority of our legal and illegal immigration, so why would we focus on Europe?

    You wouldnt suggest a solution to the gun problem is to outlaw a single-action 6 shooter would you? No, because thats like 0.1% of the crime.

    Why only focus on half the problem?
    According to Wikipedia, Europe is 8.2% of our immigration. So by ignoring Europe, we are still focusing on 92% of the problem.
    Makes total sense to me to focus on the biggest factors first. Mexico and Central America make up most of the illegal immigration, so we should focus on that first. Try one solution at a time, we cant solve it all at once.

    I noticed that when you referred to Europe, you stated "immigration." Yet, when you referred to Mexico and Central America, you stated "illegal immigration." Are there no illegal immigrants from Europe and conversely, is there no immigration from Central and South America, assuming "immigration" is the legal kind?
    You're being ridiculous. No one can pose a differing opinion without you twisting words into something they aren't. 

    Why is asking for clarification of terminology being used ridiculous? How am I twisting words? Mace made two different references to the same issue. What's really ridiculous is your inability to see that race factors into almost everything, from immigration to law enforcement and sentencing to consumer loans, housing, education, healthcare, environmental policy, etc, etc. etc. and that you get butt hurt when I point that out. The thread title is DACA, not immigration in general but I'm happy to discuss both.
    Ah, the classic butthurt label. Nope, but thanks anyway. I didn't say racism doesn't exist within all the areas you mentioned because it obviously does. I'm just offering that it's not necessarily always the reason an action is taken or not taken. 

    So you think Trump's, and by extension Sessions, or the other way around, illegal immigration enforcement is color blind?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

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  • tbergstbergs Posts: 2,947
    tbergs said:
    tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    Why do people keep bringing up Europe? They are such a tiny small fraction of the immigration problem. If you look at the top 10 countries of immigration, none are from Europe. I don't think any of the top 20 are even.
    Why is there a need to deny that the immigration exists from a few select countries? Mexico and Central America account for the vast majority of our legal and illegal immigration, so why would we focus on Europe?

    You wouldnt suggest a solution to the gun problem is to outlaw a single-action 6 shooter would you? No, because thats like 0.1% of the crime.

    Why only focus on half the problem?
    According to Wikipedia, Europe is 8.2% of our immigration. So by ignoring Europe, we are still focusing on 92% of the problem.
    Makes total sense to me to focus on the biggest factors first. Mexico and Central America make up most of the illegal immigration, so we should focus on that first. Try one solution at a time, we cant solve it all at once.

    I noticed that when you referred to Europe, you stated "immigration." Yet, when you referred to Mexico and Central America, you stated "illegal immigration." Are there no illegal immigrants from Europe and conversely, is there no immigration from Central and South America, assuming "immigration" is the legal kind?
    You're being ridiculous. No one can pose a differing opinion without you twisting words into something they aren't. 

    Why is asking for clarification of terminology being used ridiculous? How am I twisting words? Mace made two different references to the same issue. What's really ridiculous is your inability to see that race factors into almost everything, from immigration to law enforcement and sentencing to consumer loans, housing, education, healthcare, environmental policy, etc, etc. etc. and that you get butt hurt when I point that out. The thread title is DACA, not immigration in general but I'm happy to discuss both.
    Ah, the classic butthurt label. Nope, but thanks anyway. I didn't say racism doesn't exist within all the areas you mentioned because it obviously does. I'm just offering that it's not necessarily always the reason an action is taken or not taken. 

    So you think Trump's, and by extension Sessions, or the other way around, illegal immigration enforcement is color blind?
    I don't have the time to give this a full answer now, but in short, yes and no. I'll circle back later.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 8,500


    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • vaggar99vaggar99 San Diego USAPosts: 2,232
    They are here illegally, so something should be done.  Make them join the military and serve or maybe join the army corps and build something?
    what?
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 4,017
    tbergs said:
    Weeds illegal in a lot of places. If that law isn't enforced, is that a problem?
    Yes. Why do we have a law if it isn't going to be monitored and enforced? Seems like a silly question.
    In a lot of states oral sex between consenting adults is also illegal. You okay with that law being monitored and enforced?
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 6,320
    tbergs said:
    Weeds illegal in a lot of places. If that law isn't enforced, is that a problem?
    Yes. Why do we have a law if it isn't going to be monitored and enforced? Seems like a silly question.
    In a lot of states oral sex between consenting adults is also illegal. You okay with that law being monitored and enforced?
    Good point. There are in fact thousands of laws on the books that are never enforced, mostly because time has moved on but the law has not.
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 8,500
    edited September 10
    tbergs said:
    Weeds illegal in a lot of places. If that law isn't enforced, is that a problem?
    Yes. Why do we have a law if it isn't going to be monitored and enforced? Seems like a silly question.
    In a lot of states oral sex between consenting adults is also illegal. You okay with that law being monitored and enforced?
    internet ready TVs
    cell phones
    notebook computers
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • dignindignin Posts: 5,286
    Someone is back on the sauce this morning.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 8,500
    tbergs said:
    Weeds illegal in a lot of places. If that law isn't enforced, is that a problem?
    Yes. Why do we have a law if it isn't going to be monitored and enforced? Seems like a silly question.
    In a lot of states oral sex between consenting adults is also illegal. You okay with that law being monitored and enforced?
    Good point. There are in fact thousands of laws on the books that are never enforced, mostly because time has moved on but the law has not.

     It’s illegal to attend a public event or use public transport within 4 hours of eating onions or garlic 

    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 6,320
    "If you've ever felt screwed by the government you probably ought to know sexual intercourse in any position other than missionary is illegal in Washington, D.C."
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 12,446
    so why didn't any of these people become u.s. citizens?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 6,320
    mcgruff10 said:
    so why didn't any of these people become u.s. citizens?
    Probably because DACA doesn't give any path to citizenship; it only allows the individual to legally work and to not be a high priority for deportation. Otherwise, they essentially aren't eligible for citizenship, unless they either take another route, like marrying a citizen, or leave and apply to immigrate, and what are the odds of that being successful? 

    https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/09/08/us/politics/why-common-critiques-of-daca-are-misleading.html
     
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • vaggar99 said:
    They are here illegally, so something should be done.  Make them join the military and serve or maybe join the army corps and build something?
    what?
    Earn Citizenship by doing military service or help the Army Corps build dams, channels, whatever.

    In other countries it's mandatory to join the military.  Implement that into acquiring citizenship.
  • CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via ChicagoPosts: 3,108
    vaggar99 said:
    They are here illegally, so something should be done.  Make them join the military and serve or maybe join the army corps and build something?
    what?
    Earn Citizenship by doing military service or help the Army Corps build dams, channels, whatever.

    In other countries it's mandatory to join the military.  Implement that into acquiring citizenship.
    yes, because we have such a good track record there
    WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, ColoradoPosts: 4,017
    vaggar99 said:
    They are here illegally, so something should be done.  Make them join the military and serve or maybe join the army corps and build something?
    what?
    Earn Citizenship by doing military service or help the Army Corps build dams, channels, whatever.

    In other countries it's mandatory to join the military.  Implement that into acquiring citizenship.
    Already an option......


    Naturalization Through Military Service: Fact Sheet
    Special provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) authorize U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) to expedite the application and naturalization process for current members of the U.S. armed forces and veterans. Generally, qualifying military service includes service with one of the following: Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and National Guard. In addition, spouses of members of the U.S. armed forces who are or will be deployed may be eligible for expedited naturalization. Other provisions of the law also allow certain spouses to complete the naturalization process abroad.
  • tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 9,851
    edited September 11
    vaggar99 said:
    They are here illegally, so something should be done.  Make them join the military and serve or maybe join the army corps and build something?
    what?
    Earn Citizenship by doing military service or help the Army Corps build dams, channels, whatever.

    In other countries it's mandatory to join the military.  Implement that into acquiring citizenship.
    Already an option......


    Naturalization Through Military Service: Fact Sheet
    Special provisions of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) authorize U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS) to expedite the application and naturalization process for current members of the U.S. armed forces and veterans. Generally, qualifying military service includes service with one of the following: Army, Navy, Air Force, Marine Corps, Coast Guard and National Guard. In addition, spouses of members of the U.S. armed forces who are or will be deployed may be eligible for expedited naturalization. Other provisions of the law also allow certain spouses to complete the naturalization process abroad.
    They need to work on this a little more.  Hardly any naturalization where there isn't a US base.  There was only 1 from Mexico.

    Thank you for finding this too.
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