The End of DACA?

124

Comments

  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 5,716
    CM189191 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    tbergs said:
    tbergs said:
    Obama was a constitutional law scholar and professor. At Harvard no less. Think he knew what he was doing? As opposed to Trump? Fancy that.
    Interesting thought but he did say it himself:

    Comprehensive reform, that's how we're going to solve this problem. … Anybody who tells you it's going to be easy or that I can wave a magic wand and make it happen hasn't been paying attention to how this town works.” (5/5/10)

    “There are those in the immigrants’ rights community who have argued passionately that we should simply provide those who are [here] illegally with legal status, or at least ignore the laws on the books and put an end to deportation until we have better laws. ... I believe such an indiscriminate approach would be both unwise and unfair. It would suggest to those thinking about coming here illegally that there will be no repercussions for such a decision. And this could lead to a surge in more illegal immigration. And it would also ignore the millions of people around the world who are waiting in line to come here legally. Ultimately, our nation, like all nations, has the right and obligation to control its borders and set laws for residency and citizenship.  And no matter how decent they are, no matter their reasons, the 11 million who broke these laws should be held accountable.” (7/1/10)

    I am president, I am not king. I can't do these things just by myself. We have a system of government that requires the Congress to work with the Executive Branch to make it happen. I'm committed to making it happen, but I've got to have some partners to do it. … The main thing we have to do to stop deportations is to change the laws. … [T]he most important thing that we can do is to change the law because the way the system works – again, I just want to repeat, I'm president, I'm not king. If Congress has laws on the books that says that people who are here who are not documented have to be deported, then I can exercise some flexibility in terms of where we deploy our resources, to focus on people who are really causing problems as a opposed to families who are just trying to work and support themselves. But there's a limit to the discretion that I can show because I am obliged to execute the law. That's what the Executive Branch means. I can't just make the laws up by myself. So the most important thing that we can do is focus on changing the underlying laws.” (10/25/10)

    “America is a nation of laws, which means I, as the President, am obligated to enforce the law. I don't have a choice about that. That's part of my job. But I can advocate for changes in the law so that we have a country that is both respectful of the law but also continues to be a great nation of immigrants. … With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations through executive order, that’s just not the case, because there are laws on the books that Congress has passed …. [W]e’ve got three branches of government. Congress passes the law. The executive branch’s job is to enforce and implement those laws. And then the judiciary has to interpret the laws. There are enough laws on the books by Congress that are very clear in terms of how we have to enforce our immigration system that for me to simply through executive order ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as President.” (3/28/11)



    And then, oh my god, he went back on his word. Politicians never do that. Only democrats, black ones and women. My point is that after the "partners" absolutely refused to work with him, he went nuclear. And when he did so, he's smart enough to have crafted his EO in such a manner as to stand up in court, all the way up to the Supreme Court, thus buying time and at least politically, "trying" to do something about an outstanding and important issue. The party of no bears the shame and responsibility for not doing anything. EOs are not illegal of and by themselves. Distasteful yes. Illegal no. The party of no could have passed a draconian immigration reform bill and dared Obama to veto it. Or they could have passed a bill that gave the Dems everything and then some. Or they could have passed something inbetween. They did nothing. Shame on them and fuck 'em with an EO in the ass.
    No one here has said or implied the bolded part above. More of the us and them response really works well for the country as whole. In the end, it's the people you're so concerned about being fucked. This isn't about republicans and democrats, blacks or whites or browns or whatever you keep mentioning. Yes, republicans wouldn't work with Obama, but in the end he isn't sticking it to them, it's those he wanted to protect.
    Why wouldn't the republicans work with Obama? Wouldn't have had anything to do with, hmmmm, let me think for a minute, hmmmmmm, I think it's coming to me now, yup, race, now would it?
    So now all republicans are racist? I would wager it was more about his political party, but let's make every issue race. Drive the wedge so Trump gets another term. Fucking ridiculous.
    Every Republican is racist...Every Democrat is a jobless mooch looking for a handout...yada yada yada...snore
    I'm curious what people think. What percentage of Republicans are racist? Not just the blatant ones, but also the ones who claim they aren't but still hold racist beleifs and attitudes and act on them. 

    Nate Silver says it's roughly 27%, compared to 19% of democrats.  
     https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/are-white-republicans-more-racist-than-white-democrats/
    Thanks for the link. It was nice to see the much improved attitude toward interracial marriage since 1990. I wonder what an updated version would show now that closeted racists are now feeling validated by the highest office. You know the "those Arab looking people make me nervous" "I'm concerned white people aren't having enough kids" "blue lives matter!" "Racism is pretty much gone, it's their own fault now, why are they complaining?" "If blacks would follow the law, they wouldn't have any problems with police" "that was a nice neighborhood until the Mexicans took over" "they need to worry about black on black crime first" etc and etc..... 

  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,676
    edited September 8

    mace1229 said:
    I'd understand the uproar if we had great schools and lots of opportunity for young kids.
    But we don't. Our schools are overcrowded and failing. Classrooms built for 24 kids now hold 40. Test scores and drop out rates are embarrassing. It is more difficult to get into college that it was a generation ago, let alone pay for it. 
    For us to allow people to stay illegally would be like the family on the corner who is on welfare with 6 kids trying to adopt 2 more into the family. We should learn to take care of ourselves first before trying to nurse the rest of the world to prosperity.
    Look at all the countries that are top ranked in terms of education and income. And then look and their immigration policies. For the most part they are far more strict that ours, but they don't get crap for it. Even Canada if I'm not mistaken is a lot tougher to get in (and stay) than the US. Don't you have to pass an English or French language test as just one part of the immigration process to Canada? Not to mention the strict skill/worker requirements along with that. But when someone enters the US illegally no regulations should apply? Why are we expected to be so different, and racists/no empathy if we aren't? 
    Canada is extremely hard to emigrate into.  I know a couple who looked into it.  They were highly skilled, well educated (one a Doctorate, on a Masters degree), paid highly professionals.  They didn't think they could get in so they said, "Forget about it."

    This subject is a good example of why I hate labels.  If you say you are in favor of more strict immigration policies you are labeled a "conservative" and a "racist". 

    People I know generally label me a "liberal" or even "radical" but when I talk about my thoughts on immigration policy, all of the sudden I'm a "Trump loving conservative racist".  Bullshit.   When in comes to environment, people say I'm "radical" or even pro-ecoterrorism.   That's  a bullshit label put on some of the groups I support.  One of my favorites, Sea Shepherds, works to uphold international marine life laws and had never seriously injured or killed or had any of there own seriously injured or killed and yet some label them eco-terrorist.  Bullshit.

    Let's stop it with the name-calling nonsense and start putting our heads together to solve problems.  No one here has shown hatred to or wished ill will upon their fellow human.  We all seem to care about what's going on (far more so than the average person, I'd say).  Let's stop it with the petty name calling and division.  If someone needs to do that, maybe go play football or something, please!
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 8,255
    dignin said:
    brianlux said:
    Hurricane Irma is now expected to hit Florida and we are quite concerned about my sister-in-law who lives there.

    Why do I post this here?  Because she is an immigrant and we supported her in coming to America and later becoming a  US citizen. We're not super close but her circumstances were such (long story) that it made sense to support her anyway.

    It's not all black and white and I am not cold and heartless.  In fact, I don't think any of us who post here are cold and heartless so I wish some of you would stop trying to push the wedge further.  Not agreeing with each other doesn't make us bad.
    If anyone thinks it's okay to throw these kids out of their home because of a bad law, then yes, I think that makes someone bad.

    No analogy can make that right or humane.


    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 2,609
    JC29856 said:
    dignin said:
    brianlux said:
    Hurricane Irma is now expected to hit Florida and we are quite concerned about my sister-in-law who lives there.

    Why do I post this here?  Because she is an immigrant and we supported her in coming to America and later becoming a  US citizen. We're not super close but her circumstances were such (long story) that it made sense to support her anyway.

    It's not all black and white and I am not cold and heartless.  In fact, I don't think any of us who post here are cold and heartless so I wish some of you would stop trying to push the wedge further.  Not agreeing with each other doesn't make us bad.
    If anyone thinks it's okay to throw these kids out of their home because of a bad law, then yes, I think that makes someone bad.

    No analogy can make that right or humane.


    Uh oh, looks like Hillary is a racist nazi too
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 5,716
    PJPOWER said:
    JC29856 said:
    dignin said:
    brianlux said:
    Hurricane Irma is now expected to hit Florida and we are quite concerned about my sister-in-law who lives there.

    Why do I post this here?  Because she is an immigrant and we supported her in coming to America and later becoming a  US citizen. We're not super close but her circumstances were such (long story) that it made sense to support her anyway.

    It's not all black and white and I am not cold and heartless.  In fact, I don't think any of us who post here are cold and heartless so I wish some of you would stop trying to push the wedge further.  Not agreeing with each other doesn't make us bad.
    If anyone thinks it's okay to throw these kids out of their home because of a bad law, then yes, I think that makes someone bad.

    No analogy can make that right or humane.


    Uh oh, looks like Hillary is a racist nazi too
    All minimizing of racism posts aside, where would you put Clinton and trump on the racist/prejudice continuum based on the information we have?
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 2,609
    edited September 8
    PJPOWER said:
    JC29856 said:
    dignin said:
    brianlux said:
    Hurricane Irma is now expected to hit Florida and we are quite concerned about my sister-in-law who lives there.

    Why do I post this here?  Because she is an immigrant and we supported her in coming to America and later becoming a  US citizen. We're not super close but her circumstances were such (long story) that it made sense to support her anyway.

    It's not all black and white and I am not cold and heartless.  In fact, I don't think any of us who post here are cold and heartless so I wish some of you would stop trying to push the wedge further.  Not agreeing with each other doesn't make us bad.
    If anyone thinks it's okay to throw these kids out of their home because of a bad law, then yes, I think that makes someone bad.

    No analogy can make that right or humane.


    Uh oh, looks like Hillary is a racist nazi too
    All minimizing of racism posts aside, where would you put Clinton and trump on the racist/prejudice continuum based on the information we have?
    "What difference does it make at this point?"  I think Hillary hides it better...that is until she gets a magical slang accent when speaking to a southern black crowd...
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
    "At least I'm housebroken"
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 20,676
    Where is the MLK or Bobby Kennedy of today, that's what I want to know.
    We're living on the edge of something big. It's a fantastic time in history to be alive.
    AMT, 1.25.15, 00:36 hrs.
    ***********
    M.I.T.S.
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 36,750
    brianlux said:
    Where is the MLK or Bobby Kennedy of today, that's what I want to know.
    Good question. American badly needs one or five. I've been saying for a while that BLM, for example, are in desperate need of a great leader. Without one, they are largely ineffective and even destructive in some ways. It's a shame.
    The closest you have is Bernie Sanders.... I think he's great. The problem there is that the two main political parties and the entire system are just so fucked up that Bernie is not able to be as effective as he should be while working kind of within that system (I'm sure the same would happen to Bobby Kennedy if he existed present day). I'm not really sure exactly where a great leader would best belong right now, with things the way they are. Not good.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 5,716
    PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    JC29856 said:
    dignin said:
    brianlux said:
    Hurricane Irma is now expected to hit Florida and we are quite concerned about my sister-in-law who lives there.

    Why do I post this here?  Because she is an immigrant and we supported her in coming to America and later becoming a  US citizen. We're not super close but her circumstances were such (long story) that it made sense to support her anyway.

    It's not all black and white and I am not cold and heartless.  In fact, I don't think any of us who post here are cold and heartless so I wish some of you would stop trying to push the wedge further.  Not agreeing with each other doesn't make us bad.
    If anyone thinks it's okay to throw these kids out of their home because of a bad law, then yes, I think that makes someone bad.

    No analogy can make that right or humane.


    Uh oh, looks like Hillary is a racist nazi too
    All minimizing of racism posts aside, where would you put Clinton and trump on the racist/prejudice continuum based on the information we have?
    "What difference does it make at this point?"  I think Hillary hides it better...that is until she gets a magical slang accent when speaking to a southern black crowd...
    The post is an attempt to normalize trump like he's just like all the others. The bullshit theme that Hillary was just as bad as trump is why we're in this mess now. 
  • Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
  • A third of undocumented immigrants 15 and older lives with at least one child who is a United States citizen by birth. Slightly more than 30 percent own homes. Only a tiny fraction has been convicted of felonies or serious misdemeanors.

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/03/06/us/politics/undocumented-illegal-immigrants.html?mcubz=1

  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 8,255
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    Where is the MLK or Bobby Kennedy of today, that's what I want to know.
    Good question. American badly needs one or five. I've been saying for a while that BLM, for example, are in desperate need of a great leader. Without one, they are largely ineffective and even destructive in some ways. It's a shame.
    The closest you have is Bernie Sanders.... I think he's great. The problem there is that the two main political parties and the entire system are just so fucked up that Bernie is not able to be as effective as he should be while working kind of within that system (I'm sure the same would happen to Bobby Kennedy if he existed present day). I'm not really sure exactly where a great leader would best belong right now, with things the way they are. Not good.
    not sure of your thoughts on zephyr teachbut but I thought she had potential to be as you describe.
    some point after her ny run against cuomo she converted to a brock-bot with CREW.
    (And these questions can be re-phrased and asked about 90% of what you asked)
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 36,750
    edited September 8
    JC29856 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    brianlux said:
    Where is the MLK or Bobby Kennedy of today, that's what I want to know.
    Good question. American badly needs one or five. I've been saying for a while that BLM, for example, are in desperate need of a great leader. Without one, they are largely ineffective and even destructive in some ways. It's a shame.
    The closest you have is Bernie Sanders.... I think he's great. The problem there is that the two main political parties and the entire system are just so fucked up that Bernie is not able to be as effective as he should be while working kind of within that system (I'm sure the same would happen to Bobby Kennedy if he existed present day). I'm not really sure exactly where a great leader would best belong right now, with things the way they are. Not good.
    not sure of your thoughts on zephyr teachbut but I thought she had potential to be as you describe.
    some point after her ny run against cuomo she converted to a brock-bot with CREW.
    I had to look her up (I may have been somewhat aware of her during her NY run, but I don't remember now). I know nothing about her, beside what I just read in about 3 minutes. From that she seems good, lol, but obviously I don't know enough to comment about her in any relevant way. Now that I'm aware of her I'll certainly keep an eye out for what she does in the future.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 16,697
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 

    Maybe everyone should be required to show their papers?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    Why do people keep bringing up Europe? They are such a tiny small fraction of the immigration problem. If you look at the top 10 countries of immigration, none are from Europe. I don't think any of the top 20 are even.
    Why is there a need to deny that the immigration exists from a few select countries? Mexico and Central America account for the vast majority of our legal and illegal immigration, so why would we focus on Europe?

    You wouldnt suggest a solution to the gun problem is to outlaw a single-action 6 shooter would you? No, because thats like 0.1% of the crime.
  • mace1229 said:
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    Why do people keep bringing up Europe? They are such a tiny small fraction of the immigration problem. If you look at the top 10 countries of immigration, none are from Europe. I don't think any of the top 20 are even.
    Why is there a need to deny that the immigration exists from a few select countries? Mexico and Central America account for the vast majority of our legal and illegal immigration, so why would we focus on Europe?

    You wouldnt suggest a solution to the gun problem is to outlaw a single-action 6 shooter would you? No, because thats like 0.1% of the crime.

    Why only focus on half the problem?
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    mace1229 said:
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    Why do people keep bringing up Europe? They are such a tiny small fraction of the immigration problem. If you look at the top 10 countries of immigration, none are from Europe. I don't think any of the top 20 are even.
    Why is there a need to deny that the immigration exists from a few select countries? Mexico and Central America account for the vast majority of our legal and illegal immigration, so why would we focus on Europe?

    You wouldnt suggest a solution to the gun problem is to outlaw a single-action 6 shooter would you? No, because thats like 0.1% of the crime.

    Why only focus on half the problem?
    According to Wikipedia, Europe is 8.2% of our immigration. So by ignoring Europe, we are still focusing on 92% of the problem.
    Makes total sense to me to focus on the biggest factors first. Mexico and Central America make up most of the illegal immigration, so we should focus on that first. Try one solution at a time, we cant solve it all at once.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 5,716
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    Why do people keep bringing up Europe? They are such a tiny small fraction of the immigration problem. If you look at the top 10 countries of immigration, none are from Europe. I don't think any of the top 20 are even.
    Why is there a need to deny that the immigration exists from a few select countries? Mexico and Central America account for the vast majority of our legal and illegal immigration, so why would we focus on Europe?

    You wouldnt suggest a solution to the gun problem is to outlaw a single-action 6 shooter would you? No, because thats like 0.1% of the crime.

    Why only focus on half the problem?
    According to Wikipedia, Europe is 8.2% of our immigration. So by ignoring Europe, we are still focusing on 92% of the problem.
    Makes total sense to me to focus on the biggest factors first. Mexico and Central America make up most of the illegal immigration, so we should focus on that first. Try one solution at a time, we cant solve it all at once.
    I think you're missing the point. We're talking about the actions of a racist administration and hypothesizing that if they happened to be white, this would've already benn resolved with a plan to make them legal citizens.   
  • mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    Why do people keep bringing up Europe? They are such a tiny small fraction of the immigration problem. If you look at the top 10 countries of immigration, none are from Europe. I don't think any of the top 20 are even.
    Why is there a need to deny that the immigration exists from a few select countries? Mexico and Central America account for the vast majority of our legal and illegal immigration, so why would we focus on Europe?

    You wouldnt suggest a solution to the gun problem is to outlaw a single-action 6 shooter would you? No, because thats like 0.1% of the crime.

    Why only focus on half the problem?
    According to Wikipedia, Europe is 8.2% of our immigration. So by ignoring Europe, we are still focusing on 92% of the problem.
    Makes total sense to me to focus on the biggest factors first. Mexico and Central America make up most of the illegal immigration, so we should focus on that first. Try one solution at a time, we cant solve it all at once.

    I noticed that when you referred to Europe, you stated "immigration." Yet, when you referred to Mexico and Central America, you stated "illegal immigration." Are there no illegal immigrants from Europe and conversely, is there no immigration from Central and South America, assuming "immigration" is the legal kind?
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 5,716
    Also what's interesting is the commonly accepted notion the illegal immigration is a problem, but only based on the fact that it's against the law. If I want the government to make it a priority to do something, I want the problem to be clearly defined. In this case, what "problems" do illegals create? What's the financial loss vs. econimic gain by having them here? I haven't been able to find it, and when I've asked in here, someone posted a link citing arrests of illegals in Texas, and that was it. 
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 2,610
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    Why do people keep bringing up Europe? They are such a tiny small fraction of the immigration problem. If you look at the top 10 countries of immigration, none are from Europe. I don't think any of the top 20 are even.
    Why is there a need to deny that the immigration exists from a few select countries? Mexico and Central America account for the vast majority of our legal and illegal immigration, so why would we focus on Europe?

    You wouldnt suggest a solution to the gun problem is to outlaw a single-action 6 shooter would you? No, because thats like 0.1% of the crime.

    Why only focus on half the problem?
    According to Wikipedia, Europe is 8.2% of our immigration. So by ignoring Europe, we are still focusing on 92% of the problem.
    Makes total sense to me to focus on the biggest factors first. Mexico and Central America make up most of the illegal immigration, so we should focus on that first. Try one solution at a time, we cant solve it all at once.

    I noticed that when you referred to Europe, you stated "immigration." Yet, when you referred to Mexico and Central America, you stated "illegal immigration." Are there no illegal immigrants from Europe and conversely, is there no immigration from Central and South America, assuming "immigration" is the legal kind?
    You're being ridiculous. No one can pose a differing opinion without you twisting words into something they aren't. 
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    Why do people keep bringing up Europe? They are such a tiny small fraction of the immigration problem. If you look at the top 10 countries of immigration, none are from Europe. I don't think any of the top 20 are even.
    Why is there a need to deny that the immigration exists from a few select countries? Mexico and Central America account for the vast majority of our legal and illegal immigration, so why would we focus on Europe?

    You wouldnt suggest a solution to the gun problem is to outlaw a single-action 6 shooter would you? No, because thats like 0.1% of the crime.

    Why only focus on half the problem?
    According to Wikipedia, Europe is 8.2% of our immigration. So by ignoring Europe, we are still focusing on 92% of the problem.
    Makes total sense to me to focus on the biggest factors first. Mexico and Central America make up most of the illegal immigration, so we should focus on that first. Try one solution at a time, we cant solve it all at once.

    I noticed that when you referred to Europe, you stated "immigration." Yet, when you referred to Mexico and Central America, you stated "illegal immigration." Are there no illegal immigrants from Europe and conversely, is there no immigration from Central and South America, assuming "immigration" is the legal kind?
    I think you were trying to read into something that wasn't there.
    I referred to Europe as "immigration" simply because that was the stat that was available on Wikipedia. I don't know if that 8.2% I quoted include all immigration or only legal. Either way, it was more than safe to infer that if Europe is 8.2% of immigration (legal or not) it is probably a much smaller portion of the problem.
    I referred to Mexico and Central America as "illegal immigration" because no one cares about the legal ones. DACA doesn't target the legal ones. When people talk about immigration as an issue they are talking about illegal immigration. There is no need to distinguish between the two. Illegal immigration, and the unwillingness to enforce the laws is what makes immigration a problem. Mexican, Irish, Chinese, I don't care, if you're here legally then great. But it is our illegal immigration that is out of control with no signs of slowing down. So when talking about immigration as a problem I refer to it as illegal immigration. No one wants to stop Mexicans from coming legally.
    I don't know if it was intentional or not, but to me even asking that question implies you believe there are racist motivations with the intentional use of "immigration" and "illegal immigration." Why else even point it out?
    And that's where I get hung up. Talking about immigration always comes down to race. But everyone for immigration laws dont even consider race. Its about following laws.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 5,716
    Weeds illegal in a lot of places. If that law isn't enforced, is that a problem?
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 2,610
    Weeds illegal in a lot of places. If that law isn't enforced, is that a problem?
    Yes. Why do we have a law if it isn't going to be monitored and enforced? Seems like a silly question.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 1,418
    Also what's interesting is the commonly accepted notion the illegal immigration is a problem, but only based on the fact that it's against the law. If I want the government to make it a priority to do something, I want the problem to be clearly defined. In this case, what "problems" do illegals create? What's the financial loss vs. econimic gain by having them here? I haven't been able to find it, and when I've asked in here, someone posted a link citing arrests of illegals in Texas, and that was it. 
    Every country enforces their boarders. Why can't we?
    All the celebrities talking about moving to Canada. Well guess what, you have to speak English or French to get it, and even then, it is much harder.
    You havent seen an impact of immigration? Schools.
    Schools are over crowded and underfunded. We have embarassingly low test scores. And where are the lowest performing and most overcrowded schools? Usually areas with high immigration.
    I'm not saying immigration is the only problem with school, and if we kick out the Mexicans we'd be at the top. But it is definitely a contributing factor when classrooms built to hold 25 kids now have 45. The focus of teaching is now reaching those who speak little English, nearly every training and professional development isnt about how to make the kids excell, but how to teach those with limited English. When kids get thrown into the 8th grade because of their age, but they have a 3rd grade education because of where they came from.
    I'm not saying kicking them out is the answer, but anyone who cant see it affects the entire community is blind.
    And why/how should we be responsible for others when we are currently failing our own kids? Figure out how to get our education system back on track before we try to be an open book to the world.
  • tbergs said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    Why do people keep bringing up Europe? They are such a tiny small fraction of the immigration problem. If you look at the top 10 countries of immigration, none are from Europe. I don't think any of the top 20 are even.
    Why is there a need to deny that the immigration exists from a few select countries? Mexico and Central America account for the vast majority of our legal and illegal immigration, so why would we focus on Europe?

    You wouldnt suggest a solution to the gun problem is to outlaw a single-action 6 shooter would you? No, because thats like 0.1% of the crime.

    Why only focus on half the problem?
    According to Wikipedia, Europe is 8.2% of our immigration. So by ignoring Europe, we are still focusing on 92% of the problem.
    Makes total sense to me to focus on the biggest factors first. Mexico and Central America make up most of the illegal immigration, so we should focus on that first. Try one solution at a time, we cant solve it all at once.

    I noticed that when you referred to Europe, you stated "immigration." Yet, when you referred to Mexico and Central America, you stated "illegal immigration." Are there no illegal immigrants from Europe and conversely, is there no immigration from Central and South America, assuming "immigration" is the legal kind?
    You're being ridiculous. No one can pose a differing opinion without you twisting words into something they aren't. 

    Why is asking for clarification of terminology being used ridiculous? How am I twisting words? Mace made two different references to the same issue. What's really ridiculous is your inability to see that race factors into almost everything, from immigration to law enforcement and sentencing to consumer loans, housing, education, healthcare, environmental policy, etc, etc. etc. and that you get butt hurt when I point that out. The thread title is DACA, not immigration in general but I'm happy to discuss both.
  • Weeds illegal in a lot of places. If that law isn't enforced, is that a problem?

    So are big, fat white guys abusing prescription Oxy and not doing jail time.
  • mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    Is ICE kicking in doors in those Trump branded properties in Florida, seeking out the Russian oligarchs on tourist visas having anchor babies in the US? Making sweeps through Little Russia in New York, looking for those Russian and eastern Europeans who have overstayed their tourist visas? How about ICE making their presence known in Pulaski Park or Bucktown? Why not? Being all about "law and order" and all.
    Yeah there are plenty of European illegals that have overstayed their visas but they fit right in to population they look just like the average American , they don't cut lawns or wait on tables ! 
    Why do people keep bringing up Europe? They are such a tiny small fraction of the immigration problem. If you look at the top 10 countries of immigration, none are from Europe. I don't think any of the top 20 are even.
    Why is there a need to deny that the immigration exists from a few select countries? Mexico and Central America account for the vast majority of our legal and illegal immigration, so why would we focus on Europe?

    You wouldnt suggest a solution to the gun problem is to outlaw a single-action 6 shooter would you? No, because thats like 0.1% of the crime.

    Why only focus on half the problem?
    According to Wikipedia, Europe is 8.2% of our immigration. So by ignoring Europe, we are still focusing on 92% of the problem.
    Makes total sense to me to focus on the biggest factors first. Mexico and Central America make up most of the illegal immigration, so we should focus on that first. Try one solution at a time, we cant solve it all at once.

    I noticed that when you referred to Europe, you stated "immigration." Yet, when you referred to Mexico and Central America, you stated "illegal immigration." Are there no illegal immigrants from Europe and conversely, is there no immigration from Central and South America, assuming "immigration" is the legal kind?
    I think you were trying to read into something that wasn't there.
    I referred to Europe as "immigration" simply because that was the stat that was available on Wikipedia. I don't know if that 8.2% I quoted include all immigration or only legal. Either way, it was more than safe to infer that if Europe is 8.2% of immigration (legal or not) it is probably a much smaller portion of the problem.
    I referred to Mexico and Central America as "illegal immigration" because no one cares about the legal ones. DACA doesn't target the legal ones. When people talk about immigration as an issue they are talking about illegal immigration. There is no need to distinguish between the two. Illegal immigration, and the unwillingness to enforce the laws is what makes immigration a problem. Mexican, Irish, Chinese, I don't care, if you're here legally then great. But it is our illegal immigration that is out of control with no signs of slowing down. So when talking about immigration as a problem I refer to it as illegal immigration. No one wants to stop Mexicans from coming legally.
    I don't know if it was intentional or not, but to me even asking that question implies you believe there are racist motivations with the intentional use of "immigration" and "illegal immigration." Why else even point it out?
    And that's where I get hung up. Talking about immigration always comes down to race. But everyone for immigration laws dont even consider race. Its about following laws.

    How are children, at the time they "immigrated", by law unable to give consent or be held accountable for their actions, have committed an illegal act, illegally immigrating? Wasn't Obama the "deporter in chief" and the pace of illegals was slowed? Why aren't the laws equally enforced? Don't laws apply to all and not just certain segments? Was Arpaio applying the law equally when he only asked "brown" or "Hispanic" appearing people to prove their legal residency?
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 2,609
    PJPOWER said:
    PJPOWER said:
    JC29856 said:
    dignin said:
    brianlux said:
    Hurricane Irma is now expected to hit Florida and we are quite concerned about my sister-in-law who lives there.

    Why do I post this here?  Because she is an immigrant and we supported her in coming to America and later becoming a  US citizen. We're not super close but her circumstances were such (long story) that it made sense to support her anyway.

    It's not all black and white and I am not cold and heartless.  In fact, I don't think any of us who post here are cold and heartless so I wish some of you would stop trying to push the wedge further.  Not agreeing with each other doesn't make us bad.
    If anyone thinks it's okay to throw these kids out of their home because of a bad law, then yes, I think that makes someone bad.

    No analogy can make that right or humane.


    Uh oh, looks like Hillary is a racist nazi too
    All minimizing of racism posts aside, where would you put Clinton and trump on the racist/prejudice continuum based on the information we have?
    "What difference does it make at this point?"  I think Hillary hides it better...that is until she gets a magical slang accent when speaking to a southern black crowd...
    The post is an attempt to normalize trump like he's just like all the others. The bullshit theme that Hillary was just as bad as trump is why we're in this mess now. 
    They are similar in some ways...both pretty shitty leaders...
    "At least I'm housebroken"
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