Yeah, like 200 or something like that, last I heard.
There will be more deaths discovered, but not all of the couple hundred that are missing. Some of the house in that area are vacation properties. In same cases, people where on vacation or away on business. One woman I talked to today has a sister who was in another state camping in back country and didn't know about the fire until yesterday.
And now, to make matters worse, the norovirus has broken out in one of the Chico wildfire shelters.
Yeah sure, there are always some people who show up later when communication systems break down. But they are also working hard sifting through the ashes looking for human remains. It's horrible for anyone who doesn't know where a loved one is. I don't know if I could take it.
Yes, it's dreadful. I don't personally know any of the missing folks from up there, but a few people close to me are going through the anxiety of not knowing where one particular couple are and that worry is causing a lot of stress. A lot of people in the foothill communities are stressed out and even more, of course, going though the worst hell of their lives.
Despite the bad air and a persistent cough I and others around here have developed, I'm grateful to still have a home. But we are also very dry here in El Dorado County. We live in an area with more dead trees and dead shrubbery than the county and many land/home owners can keep up with as far as removal. Until we finally get some rain, ever day involves a fair amount of vigilance for fire. It's nerve wracking.
So I'm sorry if this is crass or whatever, but have you considered how long you're willing to put up with these fires around you? What if it just keeps on happening like it has been indefinitely, and you just live consistently with that kind of air? Are you just going to try and suck it up and live with it? Or are you thinking about moving?
Not taken as crass at all. I think about moving a lot.
I grew up on the west coast about 1/2 hour from the ocean. My mother grew up in Jenner-By-The-Sea on the Sonoma coast. it's in my blood. To live anywhere else (I've tried) would be futile. The problem is that (for me anyway), living on the west coast means one of two things: being very rich and living in an area that is fairly clean and healthy, or being middle to low income and living in a place that is not so healthy. Unless I win the lottery (or get killed by lightning- same odds) I guess I'll just have to-- *cough*cough*hack*hack* -- deal with it.
Edit: And the irony is, where I live now is getting closer and closer to being 4 hours or more from here as traffic gets worse. People still flock to California. Why the hell? Dunno!
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,231
WaPo just announced the number of missing now is 631. :-(
World Central Kitchen is busy providing meals to emergency personnel and displaced residents.
I just read your post and my first thought was, "Oh that sounds like bullshit." So I checked it out. The Sacramento Bee, a well respected Northern California paper confirms: 63 dead, 631 missing. God almighty.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I just read your post and my first thought was, "Oh that sounds like bullshit." So I checked it out. The Sacramento Bee, a well respected Northern California paper confirms: 63 dead, 631 missing. God almighty.
I thought it was a typo, too. They did note that that number is dynamic. But given what we've read about the fire's speed, how evacuations were handled, and the number of elderly people living there, I don't think they're done finding bodies.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
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curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,231
This is definitely a different spin. I heard the stock plunged because they don't have enough insurance to replace the infrastructure if it all burns up.
curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,231
Oh, he's an ecologist now? Huh. Interesting.
My eyes just rolled so hard that a contact lens popped out.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
I want to just rap him on the noggin and say, "Hellooooo. Are you not aware that one hundred years of fires suppression has allowed these massive quantities of fuels to build up? Are you aware that houses built within forests become more fuel that is often more easily ignited than trees? Do you know that California has 33 million acres of forest? And do you have any idea how long it will take to restore that much land to healthy forests? And are you aware that control burning and clearing goes on whenever safely possible on these lands? Are you aware of how many crews there are out there every year including low-risk prisoners who go out in teams and do this clearing? And do you really not know that because of climate change all of this is made more difficult, not just a little bit?"
And, sir, did you not hear that over 600 people are missing but that does not necessarily mean all of them are "dead"?
Dammit! How did we end up with such an ill informed president? I just want to scream. AUGHHHH!!!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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curmudgeoness
Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 3,231
if anyone is interested in making a donation to support victims and first responders, I'm a big fan of World Central Kitchen.
This is horrific news. The numbers are popping off the page for me. I made a very terrible assumption about the fire- that it was one of the 'routine variety' (very few casualties and it would be out shortly).
This is horrific news. The numbers are popping off the page for me. I made a very terrible assumption about the fire- that it was one of the 'routine variety' (very few casualties and it would be out shortly).
Geez. Not much to say. Brutal.
Nope. It burned so hot and moved so quickly that people could not get out in time. From what I've read, beyond the structures that were destroyed, infrastructure (roads, sewers) was just about obliterated, too.
The fear is that this will be the new normal.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
This is horrific news. The numbers are popping off the page for me. I made a very terrible assumption about the fire- that it was one of the 'routine variety' (very few casualties and it would be out shortly).
Geez. Not much to say. Brutal.
Nope. It burned so hot and moved so quickly that people could not get out in time. From what I've read, beyond the structures that were destroyed, infrastructure (roads, sewers) was just about obliterated, too.
The fear is that this will be the new normal.
This has been confirmed. Climate change will continue the trend of warming and drying of the west. Climate change, combined with 100 years suppression of natural fire and an increased growth in wildland-urban interface (people living and building in forested areas) has created a situation that will lead to the continuation of catastrophic fires in the west-- more so in California but also in other western states and western Canada. This is the New West.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I never said what he said was right. In fact I said the opposite.
But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident. There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc. But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future. What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.
In life, after things go horribly awry, 90% of the time, you'd want to dissect how or why shit went down. The other 10% of the time, Donald Trump is in office.
His assessments of what happened and how we got here (if he acknowledges that 'here' is even a problem, not a Chinese hoax) are false.
His assessments of what ought to be done differently are fucking stupid (raking the forest), and designed to protect his interests (such as planting coal lobbyists as the head of the EPA, instead of trees).
Conceptually, cincy, I agree with you, however when the person in charge's lead-up to the problem is to pretend it doesn't exist so he can profit, and his reaction to the problem is to blame completely unrelated and logically disprovable factors, you can't be too surprised when people tell Donald to fuck right off.
'05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
I never said what he said was right. In fact I said the opposite.
But I also see people, like yourself, say "all we should be doing no is helping the people"...seems like the same argument used against talking about gun control after an incident. There are a multitude of reasons/causes etc. But I'd also like to know what people are doing to try and avoid this in the future. What can be done, what do they need, or maybe where should we stop building communities.
In life, after things go horribly awry, 90% of the time, you'd want to dissect how or why shit went down. The other 10% of the time, Donald Trump is in office.
His assessments of what happened and how we got here (if he acknowledges that 'here' is even a problem, not a Chinese hoax) are false.
His assessments of what ought to be done differently are fucking stupid (raking the forest), and designed to protect his interests (such as planting coal lobbyists as the head of the EPA, instead of trees).
Conceptually, cincy, I agree with you, however when the person in charge's lead-up to the problem is to pretend it doesn't exist so he can profit, and his reaction to the problem is to blame completely unrelated and logically disprovable factors, you can't be too surprised when people tell Donald to fuck right off.
Ben, your post is superbly written and says exactly why this administration is moving us in the wrong direction. We so badly need more intelligent people in office. Trump is an overgrown, clueless teenager tweeting away based on uninformed impulses. He is an embarrassment.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
The statistics just keep getting worse-- 76 known dead, 1,276 missing or unaccounted for-- but the good news is we are very likely to get a couple of days of rain later this week. Hopefully just steady rain to put out fires and clear the air.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
Words of wisdumb from a genius who knows all there is to know about forests:
“We’ve
gotta take care of the floors, you know, the floors of the forest. It’s
very important. You look at other countries where they do it
differently and it’s a whole different story. I was with the president
of Finland and he said, ‘We’re a forest nation.’ He called it a forest
nation. And they spend a lot of time on raking and cleaning and doing
things. And they don’t have any problem. And when it is, it’s a very small problem."
"I was watching the firemen the other day, and they were raking areas.
They were raking areas where the fire was right over there. They’re
raking trees, little trees like this that are not trees, little bushes,
that you could see are totally dry. Weeds. And they’re raking them,
they’re on fire. That should have been all raked out.”
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Words of wisdumb from a genius who knows all there is to know about forests:
“We’ve
gotta take care of the floors, you know, the floors of the forest. It’s
very important. You look at other countries where they do it
differently and it’s a whole different story. I was with the president
of Finland and he said, ‘We’re a forest nation.’ He called it a forest
nation. And they spend a lot of time on raking and cleaning and doing
things. And they don’t have any problem. And when it is, it’s a very small problem."
"I was watching the firemen the other day, and they were raking areas.
They were raking areas where the fire was right over there. They’re
raking trees, little trees like this that are not trees, little bushes,
that you could see are totally dry. Weeds. And they’re raking them,
they’re on fire. That should have been all raked out.”
He’s the exact opposite of a good leader. A leader is one that doesn’t assign blame only solves problems. And if there is blaming, they take the blame. And if there is credit, they give the credit to others. A good leader never has to say what they’ve done that is good, because people know.
That’s why politics is not a great place for true leaders. Cause you have to toot your own horn to get elected. But this guy has taken it to a new level. Always starts with “it wasn’t me” and blaming others for EVERY issue that pops up. So infuriating
hippiemom = goodness
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,687
He’s the exact opposite of a good leader. A leader is one that doesn’t assign blame only solves problems. And if there is blaming, they take the blame. And if there is credit, they give the credit to others. A good leader never has to say what they’ve done that is good, because people know.
That’s why politics is not a great place for true leaders. Cause you have to toot your own horn to get elected. But this guy has taken it to a new level. Always starts with “it wasn’t me” and blaming others for EVERY issue that pops up. So infuriating
Great definition of what a good leader should be, Cincy. I would love to see that happen!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
He’s the exact opposite of a good leader. A leader is one that doesn’t assign blame only solves problems. And if there is blaming, they take the blame. And if there is credit, they give the credit to others. A good leader never has to say what they’ve done that is good, because people know.
That’s why politics is not a great place for true leaders. Cause you have to toot your own horn to get elected. But this guy has taken it to a new level. Always starts with “it wasn’t me” and blaming others for EVERY issue that pops up. So infuriating
exactly
Adelaide 17/11/2009, Melbourne 20/11/2009, Sydney 22/11/2009, Melbourne (Big Day Out Festival) 24/01/2014
Comments
https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/pacific-gas-utility-california-wildfire-1.4904955?cmp=FB_Post_News&fbclid=IwAR20VGQNydBanbeMQqcugbiWWku23_AJ_RU7dtrMg442UIXBp7PMEqveVb4
I'd like to hear more about this.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46198498?ns_campaign=bbcnews&ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=facebook
Over 1000 officially missing.
Geez. Not much to say. Brutal.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/it-blows-my-mind-how-b-c-destroys-a-key-natural-wildfire-defence-every-year-1.4907358?fbclid=IwAR1hl2QYhYnGYhL2tfkunsvZvf6ehJrzabXPM_hEqGCteyYZ7j9f0Nb37gU
His assessments of what happened and how we got here (if he acknowledges that 'here' is even a problem, not a Chinese hoax) are false.
His assessments of what ought to be done differently are fucking stupid (raking the forest), and designed to protect his interests (such as planting coal lobbyists as the head of the EPA, instead of trees).
Conceptually, cincy, I agree with you, however when the person in charge's lead-up to the problem is to pretend it doesn't exist so he can profit, and his reaction to the problem is to blame completely unrelated and logically disprovable factors, you can't be too surprised when people tell Donald to fuck right off.
EV
Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
"I was watching the firemen the other day, and they were raking areas. They were raking areas where the fire was right over there. They’re raking trees, little trees like this that are not trees, little bushes, that you could see are totally dry. Weeds. And they’re raking them, they’re on fire. That should have been all raked out.”
That’s why politics is not a great place for true leaders. Cause you have to toot your own horn to get elected. But this guy has taken it to a new level. Always starts with “it wasn’t me” and blaming others for EVERY issue that pops up. So infuriating