Poll--The Weakest Link: Rearviewmirror (Sides 5 & 6), Round 1

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Comments

  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 5,962
    Who You Are
    tbergs said:
    Breath is one of their five best songs. Stop acting crazy in here.
    I don't think the studio cut was the best for this song. It evolved over the years on tour and is great live, but it just sounds too over the top with Ed's vocal delivery at times.

    The man they call my enemy. I've seen his eyes, he looks just like me - A mirror...
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 37,600
    edited July 15
    Betterman
    tbergs said:
    Breath is one of their five best songs. Stop acting crazy in here.
    I don't think the studio cut was the best for this song. It evolved over the years on tour and is great live, but it just sounds too over the top with Ed's vocal delivery at times.

    I don't really like Breath, and yes, it's mostly because of the vocals. I almost voted for it this round, but I'm more sick of Better Man. Could have gone either way though.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rummyrummy Ontario, CanadaPosts: 1,686
    edited July 15
    Who You Are
    PJ_Soul said:
    tbergs said:
    Breath is one of their five best songs. Stop acting crazy in here.
    I don't think the studio cut was the best for this song. It evolved over the years on tour and is great live, but it just sounds too over the top with Ed's vocal delivery at times.

    I don't really like Breath, and yes, it's mostly because of the vocals. I almost voted for it this round, but I'm more sick of Better Man. Could have gone either way though.
    I still love the 1998-2000 Better Man's. They'd brought in the "Save It For Later" tags by then but had yet to make it a crowd singalong or brought in all those "whoa-oh-oh-oh-ya's."
    Auckland 1998, Toronto 1 2011, London 2013, Buffalo 2013, Toronto 1&2 2016
  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 37,600
    edited July 15
    Betterman
    rummy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    tbergs said:
    Breath is one of their five best songs. Stop acting crazy in here.
    I don't think the studio cut was the best for this song. It evolved over the years on tour and is great live, but it just sounds too over the top with Ed's vocal delivery at times.

    I don't really like Breath, and yes, it's mostly because of the vocals. I almost voted for it this round, but I'm more sick of Better Man. Could have gone either way though.
    I still love the 1998-2000 Better Man's. They'd brought in the "Save It For Later" tags by then but had yet to make it a crowd singalong or brought in all those "whoa-oh-oh-oh-ya's."
    Well I think I mostly don't like Better Man precisely because it became this bizarre sing-along anthem, and I find it really inappropriate, lol. It IS a song that is quite explicitly about domestic abuse and battered wife syndrome. So why is it now a huge happy anthem again? Sorry, I can't take the route of "song meanings change over time" with this particular song. Yes, that rings true with some other songs, but not this one, because the lyrics aren't really open to that much interpretation in this case. I think it's fucking weird that everyone merrily belts out lyrics about this poor woman who lost the strength she used to have and so can't bring herself to leave her abuser and find someone better, and much weirder that Eddie encourages it the way he does, and is totally on board for the ride. I thought he took violence against women seriously, so why he allowed this particular song to morph into what it has is beyond me (I don't need anyone's justification - I just don't like that it happened and don't think it should have). I dunno, it just bugs me. And while I'm still judging the studio version in these polls, that crowd thing with this song just tainting the song overall for me. In other words, I agree with you - it was an okay song before it turned into what it is now.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • rummyrummy Ontario, CanadaPosts: 1,686
    Who You Are
    PJ_Soul said:
    rummy said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    tbergs said:
    Breath is one of their five best songs. Stop acting crazy in here.
    I don't think the studio cut was the best for this song. It evolved over the years on tour and is great live, but it just sounds too over the top with Ed's vocal delivery at times.

    I don't really like Breath, and yes, it's mostly because of the vocals. I almost voted for it this round, but I'm more sick of Better Man. Could have gone either way though.
    I still love the 1998-2000 Better Man's. They'd brought in the "Save It For Later" tags by then but had yet to make it a crowd singalong or brought in all those "whoa-oh-oh-oh-ya's."
    Well I think I mostly don't like Better Man precisely because it became this bizarre sing-along anthem, and I find it really inappropriate, lol. It IS a song that is quite explicitly about domestic abuse and battered wife syndrome. So why is it now a huge happy anthem again? Sorry, I can't take the route of "song meanings change over time" with this particular song. Yes, that rings true with some other songs, but not this one, because the lyrics aren't really open to that much interpretation in this case. I think it's fucking weird that everyone merrily belts out lyrics about this poor woman who lost the strength she used to have and so can't bring herself to leave her abuser and find someone better, and much weirder that Eddie encourages it the way he does, and is totally on board for the ride. I thought he took violence against women seriously, so why he allowed this particular song to morph into what it has is beyond me (I don't need anyone's justification - I just don't like that it happened and don't think it should have). I dunno, it just bugs me. And while I'm still judging the studio version in these polls, that crowd thing with this song just tainting the song overall for me. In other words, I agree with you - it was an okay song before it turned into what it is now.
    Can't argue at all with that logic. 

    Even on a superficial level (and I apologize if I am coming across as insensitive), I simply don't like hearing crowd vocals when I listen to any song live. Drives me nuts. But yes, songs like "Alive" and "Release" are a little more open to interpretation and their respective meanings, as EV has stated, has changed over time - probably due to the fact that they are introspective songs. 

    "Better Man," although also about his mother (????), is about someone else and probably shouldn't be made light of by the crowd singing along. This is true with other PJ songs, however, like "Daughter" and "Why Go." Both deal with pretty serious/important issues but there's a lot of crowd participation during those tunes, as well.
    Auckland 1998, Toronto 1 2011, London 2013, Buffalo 2013, Toronto 1&2 2016
  • whoanelly15whoanelly15 Posts: 526
    Who You Are
    Like so many things, it's all a matter of perspective. I wouldn't dare judge someone else's opinion. For me, we're actually touching on the real genius of Better Man. Lyrically, of course, it's difficult subject matter. But musically, it's anthem. It is extremely uplifting and lends itself incredibly well to singing along - whether you're in your car or at a concert.

    I remember hearing some commentary once about why it was held off of VS... that Ed was having difficulty reconciling the "accessibility" of the song. I love that description. The final version of the song is still very accessible and obviously radio-friendly (and a better fit on Vitalogy). The fact that the lyrics clash with the feel of it is, I think, part of why the song is still so popular. The fact that even people who are moved by it or connect with it lyrically - even in the most serious way - can sing out loud along with it is what changes the meaning. I'd argue this has much more of an impact on it than the live performance history of the song.

    As a case study, how many people have heard Infallible (not a radio hit) compared to how many people have heard Better Man? The fact that a song with such an important message reached so many people is what matters most. That's what I think about when I hear it. That's why I can sing along.

    Just my two cents.
    There are two types of people in the world - those who love Pearl Jam, and those who don't know that they love Pearl Jam.
  • rummyrummy Ontario, CanadaPosts: 1,686
    edited July 15
    Who You Are
    Like so many things, it's all a matter of perspective. I wouldn't dare judge someone else's opinion. For me, we're actually touching on the real genius of Better Man. Lyrically, of course, it's difficult subject matter. But musically, it's anthem. It is extremely uplifting and lends itself incredibly well to singing along - whether you're in your car or at a concert.

    I remember hearing some commentary once about why it was held off of VS... that Ed was having difficulty reconciling the "accessibility" of the song. I love that description. The final version of the song is still very accessible and obviously radio-friendly (and a better fit on Vitalogy). The fact that the lyrics clash with the feel of it is, I think, part of why the song is still so popular. The fact that even people who are moved by it or connect with it lyrically - even in the most serious way - can sing out loud along with it is what changes the meaning. I'd argue this has much more of an impact on it than the live performance history of the song.

    As a case study, how many people have heard Infallible (not a radio hit) compared to how many people have heard Better Man? The fact that a song with such an important message reached so many people is what matters most. That's what I think about when I hear it. That's why I can sing along.

    Just my two cents.
    Cripes! Now it's hard to argue with that logic!

    No wonder I never get anything done! I'm always agreeing with everyone's well-stated arguments! 

    Anyway, I love the song - won't dare vote for it unless it goes against Immortality (or maybe Daughter); don't like the singalong (sing-along?) on the bootlegs because I'd rather here Eddie sing it; appreciate the side that it deals with a serious subject matter which shouldn't be made light of; AND also appreciate it that it's such a great song both lyrically and musically that the PJ masses want to embrace it as much as humanly possible.

    We're dealing with a great band here, aren't we?
    Auckland 1998, Toronto 1 2011, London 2013, Buffalo 2013, Toronto 1&2 2016
  • MedozKMedozK TennesseePosts: 6,339
    Who You Are
    Who You Are and Nothingman eliminated in Round 1
  • rylanrylan Posts: 150
    Breath
    Betterman Is awesome live! The sing along is unreal. There's a reason why Ed belts out save it for later and gets everyone pumped up. 
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