Probably has something to do with Japan's strict gun control laws
WI 6/27/98 WI 10/8/00 MO 10/11/00 IL 4/23/03 MN 6/26/06 MN 6/27/06 WI 6/30/06 IL 8/5/07 IL 8/21/08 (EV) IL 8/22/08 (EV) IL 8/23/09 IL 8/24/09 IN 5/7/10 IL 6/28/11 (EV) IL 6/29/11 (EV) WI 9/3/11 WI 9/4/11 IL 7/19/13 NE 10/09/14 IL 10/17/14 MN 10/19/14 FL 4/11/16 IL 8/20/16 IL 8/22/16 IL 08/18/18 IL 08/20/18 IT 07/05/2020AT 07/07/2020
Probably has something to do with Japan's strict gun control laws
If we're talking gun violence in Japan vs in the US, It's more likely something to do with the fact that they have a culture rooted in respect and honour and cooperation instead of a gun culture that tends to glorify the individual over the community. But if we're talking terror attacks in Japan vs America, well that is because Japan keeps to itself in the military sense. They haven't pissed anyone off lately. The same obviously can't be said about the USA.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).
Who are these people you speak of? And if they were on the brink of surrender, why not surrender after Hiroshima?
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).
Who are these people you speak of?
People who have been interviewed in documentaries I've seen about the bombings. People who were involved in the operation (probably all dead now). Sorry, I don't recall their names. But if you watch enough documentaries about it, you'll come across the same information. The most recent one I saw that touched on this was a documentary that's on Netflix. Perhaps just called "HIroshima"? But I'm not positive. But sure, there are plenty of sources suggesting these things. Should not be hard to find.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).
Who are these people you speak of?
People who have been interviewed in documentaries I've seen about the bombings. People who were involved in the operation (probably all dead now). Sorry, I don't recall their names. But if you watch enough documentaries about it, you'll come across the same information. The most recent one I saw that touched on this was a documentary that's on Netflix. Perhaps just called "HIroshima"? But I'm not positive. But sure, there are plenty of sources suggesting these things. Should not be hard to find.
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).
Who are these people you speak of?
People who have been interviewed in documentaries I've seen about the bombings. People who were involved in the operation (probably all dead now). Sorry, I don't recall their names. But if you watch enough documentaries about it, you'll come across the same information. The most recent one I saw that touched on this was a documentary that's on Netflix. Perhaps just called "HIroshima"? But I'm not positive. But sure, there are plenty of sources suggesting these things. Should not be hard to find.
so just an opinion. got ya. I could argue the other way and make a pretty compelling argument but this thread is not about this. And a few hundred thousand is way off...no more 250,000 and that is a pretty high estimate.
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).
Who are these people you speak of?
People who have been interviewed in documentaries I've seen about the bombings. People who were involved in the operation (probably all dead now). Sorry, I don't recall their names. But if you watch enough documentaries about it, you'll come across the same information. The most recent one I saw that touched on this was a documentary that's on Netflix. Perhaps just called "HIroshima"? But I'm not positive. But sure, there are plenty of sources suggesting these things. Should not be hard to find.
so just an opinion. got ya. I could argue the other way and make a pretty compelling argument but this thread is not about this. And a few hundred thousand is way off...no more 250,000 and that is a pretty high estimate.
Maybe just an opinion, just as the opposite view point is. Although at the end of the day, I'd say the actual truth relies on whether or not Japan was actually geared up to surrender when the bombs dropped. That is what makes all the difference. For me to form a solid belief about whether or not the bombing of Japan was moral, I would have to dig into the facts behind where the Japanese government and emperor and military stood at the time of the bombing. Some certainly believe that it is a fact that they were going to surrender anyhow. I have not bothered to research into that claim enough to confidently say what I believe one way or the other, and I don't think anyone should confidently believe that the bombing was the most moral decision unless they have done such research in an objective way. Also, even without that, I feel that the bombing of Nagasaki was unnecessary and immoral either way.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Probably has something to do with Japan's strict gun control laws
If we're talking gun violence in Japan vs in the US, It's more likely something to do with the fact that they have a culture rooted in respect and honour and cooperation instead of a gun culture that tends to glorify the individual over the community. But if we're talking terror attacks in Japan vs America, well that is because Japan keeps to itself in the military sense. They haven't pissed anyone off lately. The same obviously can't be said about the USA.
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).
Who are these people you speak of?
People who have been interviewed in documentaries I've seen about the bombings. People who were involved in the operation (probably all dead now). Sorry, I don't recall their names. But if you watch enough documentaries about it, you'll come across the same information. The most recent one I saw that touched on this was a documentary that's on Netflix. Perhaps just called "HIroshima"? But I'm not positive. But sure, there are plenty of sources suggesting these things. Should not be hard to find.
so just an opinion. got ya. I could argue the other way and make a pretty compelling argument but this thread is not about this. And a few hundred thousand is way off...no more 250,000 and that is a pretty high estimate.
Yeah, just an opinion, just as the opposite view point is. Although at the end of the day, I'd say the actual truth relies on whether or not Japan was actually geared up to surrender anyway. That is what makes all the difference. For me to form a solid belief about whether or not the bombing of Japan was moral, I would have to dig into the facts behind where the Japanese government and emperor and military stood at the time of the bombing. Some certainly believe that it is a fact that they were going to surrender anyhow. I have not bothered to research into that claim enough to confidently say what I believe one way or the other, and I don't think anyone should confidently believe that the bombing was the most moral decision unless they have done such research in an objective way.
I've researched it for about 20 plus years (wrote a paper about it in college..got published..blah blah blah) just some quick points to consider: japanese way of fighting (never give up, fight to the finish) kamikazes (first used in leyte gulf 1944..more intense as we got closer to the homeland) examine iwo jima/okinawa (as we got closer to the homeland the more fierce the japanese fought) realize that the fire bombings of tokyo killed more people than the atomic bomb (still didn't surrender) the japanese were ready to defend the homeland to the last man, woman and child. Literally old people and children were taught how to use grenades and carry pitchforks in defense. some estimates on the first day of invasion were 250,000 americans dead and millions of japanese thousands of leaflets were dropped warning the japanese of the atomic bomb and their was till no surrender. hiroshima, no surrender. nagasaki...finally
and then russia invaded manchuria.
I do agree that the u.s. dropped the bomb to show the ussr that we had the world's most powerful weapon but it did save millions of lives and sped up the war.
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).
I believe Truman was against the bombing and his military leaders misled him. I think he didn't learn what was happening until after the planes were on the way. That's why he was instrumental in changing how nuclear bombs and declarations of war were approved. Maybe I'm remembering wrong though.
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).
I believe Truman was against the bombing and his military leaders misled him. I think he didn't learn what was happening until after the planes were on the way. That's why he was instrumental in changing how nuclear bombs and declarations of war were approved. Maybe I'm remembering wrong though.
This is off the trimester assessment I'm giving tomorrow:
When
Japan surrendered a few days after the bomb was ordered dropped . . . the
military estimated that at least a quarter of a million of the invasion forces
against Japan and a quarter million Japanese had been spared complete
destruction and that twice that many on the other side would, otherwise, have
been maimed for life . . .
The need
for such a fateful decision, of course, never would have arisen, had we not
been shot in the back by Japan at Pearl Harbor in December, 1941.
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
That is 100% exactly what I'm saying, without pause or hesitation.
A couple hundred thousand, a few hundred thousand, who's counting anyway? "We don't do body counts" *waves flag*
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I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).
I believe Truman was against the bombing and his military leaders misled him. I think he didn't learn what was happening until after the planes were on the way. That's why he was instrumental in changing how nuclear bombs and declarations of war were approved. Maybe I'm remembering wrong though.
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).
I believe Truman was against the bombing and his military leaders misled him. I think he didn't learn what was happening until after the planes were on the way. That's why he was instrumental in changing how nuclear bombs and declarations of war were approved. Maybe I'm remembering wrong though.
diary entry: 8/9/45
"The world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base. That was because we wished in this first attack to avoid, insofar as possible, the killing of civilians. But that attack is only a warning of things to come. If Japan does not surrender, bombs will have to be dropped on her war industries and, unfortunately, thousands of civilian lives will be lost.
"Having found the bomb we have used it. We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten and executed American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare. We have used it in order to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans.
"We shall continue to use it until we completely destroy Japan's power to make war. Only a Japanese surrender will stop us." (Public Papers of the Presidents, Harry S. Truman, 1945, pg. 212).
no but japan did have the Americans microwave a few hundred thousand people instantly just to show the world how big our penis was... good times
I also remember the domestic terrorism sarin train attacks in Japan... but you only seem to be focused on violence committed by Muslims... you like to ignore the other 99% of the violent acts occurring in the world... how many ex-military have committed mass shootings in the USA the last 20 years? more than you can count, hombre
Are you saying the United States was not justified in dropping the atomic bombs?
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
There were some people actually involved in the decision to nuke Japan who weren't convinced that it was justified.... Many accounts suggest that the Japanese were on the brink of surrendering anyhow, and the only reason Truman went ahead with the bombing was to demonstrate the new found weapon that he was basically obsessed with, and to justify all the work that had been put into the project. Some believe the whole "kill a couple hundred thousand to save a million" theory was basically bullshit. (and a few hundred thousands sounds about right once you count all of those who died of radiation sickness in the years after the bombings).
Who are these people you speak of?
People who have been interviewed in documentaries I've seen about the bombings. People who were involved in the operation (probably all dead now). Sorry, I don't recall their names. But if you watch enough documentaries about it, you'll come across the same information. The most recent one I saw that touched on this was a documentary that's on Netflix. Perhaps just called "HIroshima"? But I'm not positive. But sure, there are plenty of sources suggesting these things. Should not be hard to find.
so just an opinion. got ya. I could argue the other way and make a pretty compelling argument but this thread is not about this. And a few hundred thousand is way off...no more 250,000 and that is a pretty high estimate.
Yeah, just an opinion, just as the opposite view point is. Although at the end of the day, I'd say the actual truth relies on whether or not Japan was actually geared up to surrender anyway. That is what makes all the difference. For me to form a solid belief about whether or not the bombing of Japan was moral, I would have to dig into the facts behind where the Japanese government and emperor and military stood at the time of the bombing. Some certainly believe that it is a fact that they were going to surrender anyhow. I have not bothered to research into that claim enough to confidently say what I believe one way or the other, and I don't think anyone should confidently believe that the bombing was the most moral decision unless they have done such research in an objective way.
I've researched it for about 20 plus years (wrote a paper about it in college..got published..blah blah blah) just some quick points to consider: japanese way of fighting (never give up, fight to the finish) kamikazes (first used in leyte gulf 1944..more intense as we got closer to the homeland) examine iwo jima/okinawa (as we got closer to the homeland the more fierce the japanese fought) realize that the fire bombings of tokyo killed more people than the atomic bomb (still didn't surrender) the japanese were ready to defend the homeland to the last man, woman and child. Literally old people and children were taught how to use grenades and carry pitchforks in defense. some estimates on the first day of invasion were 250,000 americans dead and millions of japanese thousands of leaflets were dropped warning the japanese of the atomic bomb and their was till no surrender. hiroshima, no surrender. nagasaki...finally
and then russia invaded manchuria.
I do agree that the u.s. dropped the bomb to show the ussr that we had the world's most powerful weapon but it did save millions of lives and sped up the war.
And I have seen others claim that there is evidence to suggest that Japan was about to surrender (I also think that you seem to have been researching some pretty Americanized material, without much perspective from the other side of the story - your list reads a little like American military propaganda than it does true, objective research results, and I am fully aware of the Japanese tactics and mindset during that war, but there is way more to it than that. None of it is as black and white as you just stated). I would have to do my own thorough research to make up my mind or see real evidence on paper to prove it one way or the other ... and chances are I will never get around to that. From what I have learned, though, I think Japan would have surrendered without the bombing of Nagasaki, at least quickly enough for that second bomb to not be worth it in the moral/amount of suffering averted sense. Truman was just impatient about it. Yes, that's just an opinion.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Considering a large percentage of Japanese cities had been fire bombed and laid to waste by General "Bombs Away" Lemay... also facing an impending invasion by Russia... clearly defeated... if they would never surrender... and were not close to surrender as the claim goes... then why surrender after the atomic attacks? Japan and it's mostly wood built cities were already decimated
Both cities were purposely saved by the US as potential targets... they researched and decided these 2 cities would best hilight the destructive power of the world's new Super weapon... so they left them untouched... its not like they woke up one day and just decided to use them... if you think we weren't going to use those bombs before the end of the war, you are mistaken my friend... that would have been a sorely missed opportunity in some powerful circles... they were used to assert global geo-political military dominance entering the post war era... and from what i can tell, looking at the modern day global hegemony we are, the plan worked quite well... plain and simple my brother
Considering a large percentage of Japanese cities had been fire bombed and laid to waste by General "Bombs Away" Lemay... also facing an impending invasion by Russia... clearly defeated... if they would never surrender... and were not close to surrender as the claim goes... then why surrender after the atomic attacks? Japan and it's mostly wood built cities were already decimated
Both cities were purposely saved by the US as potential targets... they researched and decided these 2 cities would best hilight the destructive power of the world's new Super weapon... so they left them untouched... its not like they woke up one day and just decided to use them... if you think we weren't going to use those bombs before the end of the war, you are mistaken my friend... that would have been a sorely missed opportunity in some powerful circles... they were used to assert global geo-political military dominance entering the post war era... and from what i can tell, looking at the modern day global hegemony we are, the plan worked quite well... plain and simple my brother
Totally agree with the last part. But Hiroshima and Nagasaki were saved? Firebombing started before atomic bombs were even 100% proven...hell we weren't even sure if they were gonna work as we dropped them lol. Nagasaki wasn't even the primary target. Hell they missed their target by a mile. they surrendered after Nagasaki because the council begged the empire....the public could not comprehend a third atomic bomb being used on the homeland.
Comments
a few hundred thousand is definitely much more than anything I ve ever researched.
Also, even without that, I feel that the bombing of Nagasaki was unnecessary and immoral either way.
just some quick points to consider:
japanese way of fighting (never give up, fight to the finish)
kamikazes (first used in leyte gulf 1944..more intense as we got closer to the homeland)
examine iwo jima/okinawa (as we got closer to the homeland the more fierce the japanese fought)
realize that the fire bombings of tokyo killed more people than the atomic bomb (still didn't surrender)
the japanese were ready to defend the homeland to the last man, woman and child. Literally old people and children were taught how to use grenades and carry pitchforks in defense.
some estimates on the first day of invasion were 250,000 americans dead and millions of japanese
thousands of leaflets were dropped warning the japanese of the atomic bomb and their was till no surrender.
hiroshima, no surrender.
nagasaki...finally
and then russia invaded manchuria.
I do agree that the u.s. dropped the bomb to show the ussr that we had the world's most powerful weapon but it did save millions of lives and sped up the war.
When Japan surrendered a few days after the bomb was ordered dropped . . . the military estimated that at least a quarter of a million of the invasion forces against Japan and a quarter million Japanese had been spared complete destruction and that twice that many on the other side would, otherwise, have been maimed for life . . .
The need for such a fateful decision, of course, never would have arisen, had we not been shot in the back by Japan at Pearl Harbor in December, 1941.
-Harry S. Truman, 1958
A couple hundred thousand, a few hundred thousand, who's counting anyway? "We don't do body counts" *waves flag*
diary entry: 8/9/45
"The world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base. That was because we wished in this first attack to avoid, insofar as possible, the killing of civilians. But that attack is only a warning of things to come. If Japan does not surrender, bombs will have to be dropped on her war industries and, unfortunately, thousands of civilian lives will be lost.
"Having found the bomb we have used it. We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten and executed American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare. We have used it in order to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans.
"We shall continue to use it until we completely destroy Japan's power to make war. Only a Japanese surrender will stop us." (Public Papers of the Presidents, Harry S. Truman, 1945, pg. 212).
And I still do believe that fdr knew pearl
harbor was going to happen in some capacity.
https://www.thenation.com/article/why-the-us-really-bombed-hiroshima/
I swear there's something else out there I read about it a while back but I can't find it right now
We both know the truth
A little of both. Just because we knew in some capacity that they were going to be attacked doesn't mean we weren't stabbed in the back.
Considering a large percentage of Japanese cities had been fire bombed and laid to waste by General "Bombs Away" Lemay... also facing an impending invasion by Russia... clearly defeated... if they would never surrender... and were not close to surrender as the claim goes... then why surrender after the atomic attacks? Japan and it's mostly wood built cities were already decimated
Both cities were purposely saved by the US as potential targets... they researched and decided these 2 cities would best hilight the destructive power of the world's new Super weapon... so they left them untouched... its not like they woke up one day and just decided to use them... if you think we weren't going to use those bombs before the end of the war, you are mistaken my friend... that would have been a sorely missed opportunity in some powerful circles... they were used to assert global geo-political military dominance entering the post war era... and from what i can tell, looking at the modern day global hegemony we are, the plan worked quite well... plain and simple my brother
they surrendered after Nagasaki because the council begged the empire....the public could not comprehend a third atomic bomb being used on the homeland.