I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..
The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.
One of many issues I have with the Catholic Church. Women should definitely be priests and priests should be able to have kids and marry. It cracks me up when priests give martial advice lol.
I wonder if that would have an effect on the problem of molestation?
I honestly think sexual abuse cases would dramatically drop.
I do too, but who knows, it has to be more complicated than just a lack a physical affection. Plenty of people get very lonely without seeking that sort of thing. It seems to me there must be something about priesthood that attracts men susceptible to pedophilic tendancies, it's easier to imagine that than to imagine that it creates those tendancies.
My first thought was you said bash religion all you want
I don't really believe in topics of conversation being taboo. Respectful discourse shouldn't be bound by strictures, particularly in the case of religion, where the strictures are often put in place because the pro-religion side has little rebuttal and so seeks to limit the anti-religious argument with emotional pleas.
I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..
The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.
One of many issues I have with the Catholic Church. Women should definitely be priests and priests should be able to have kids and marry. It cracks me up when priests give martial advice lol.
I wonder if that would have an effect on the problem of molestation?
I honestly think sexual abuse cases would dramatically drop.
I do too, but who knows, it has to be more complicated than just a lack a physical affection. Plenty of people get very lonely without seeking that sort of thing. It seems to me there must be something about priesthood that attracts men susceptible to pedophilic tendancies, it's easier to imagine that than to imagine that it creates those tendancies.
It's worth a try but for some reason the catholic church is stuck in the way past.
I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..
The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.
One of many issues I have with the Catholic Church. Women should definitely be priests and priests should be able to have kids and marry. It cracks me up when priests give martial advice lol.
I wonder if that would have an effect on the problem of molestation?
I honestly think sexual abuse cases would dramatically drop.
I do too, but who knows, it has to be more complicated than just a lack a physical affection. Plenty of people get very lonely without seeking that sort of thing. It seems to me there must be something about priesthood that attracts men susceptible to pedophilic tendancies, it's easier to imagine that than to imagine that it creates those tendancies.
It's worth a try but for some reason the catholic church is stuck in the way past.
I've never understood how the people that killed Christ are the "authority" of his message. They stole some of their symbols (Mary standing on a crescent moon, for example) from Paganism. They also protect these perverts that molest children from the law and give them "therapy", as well as relocation. Definitely not a fan.
"It's best to live in grace before you're forced to." EV- 10/09/2014
I don't remember everything in this thread - those that do not believe do you believe is Satan? Believe in hell?
I'm still thinking about Him being vain and needy. He died for us.
Those that don't believe what do you believe? The Big Bang? That theory doesn't fully explain either.
Has any none believer thought why they feel they have to actively convince believers He is not?
Do not believe in Satan or Hell. That is what started me down the path of atheism. Why would God allow someone he can destroy to continue existing with the purpose of separating us from His love? How on Earth can we worship a deity which threatens to torture us for eternity if we displease Him?
He is vain and needy, if He exists. Hundreds of times He commands us to worship him, love him, forsake all others, don't dare to speak ill of him, and spread his name, all under penalty of eternal torture. "He died for us" That part of the story is incredibly convoluted and makes no sense. God split a piece off of himself that is an autonomous, separate being that is somehow still him. Then he sends that being that is Himself to Earth to experience bodily torture resulting in physical death for the benefit of everyone. How does that make sense? God decided He had to make a sacrifice of a piece of Himself so that He can forgive the transgressions of others? Only to have Himself back by His side in paradise anyways, just after having endured torture. What am arbitrary setup, if He has the capacity to forgive, then forgive, don't go through some convoluted symbolic scheme.
The Big Bang is an explanation for how the universe erupted from a singularity, not a theory for the explanation of existence. There are many theories on that topic, but no credible evidence so far. At that multiversal, epic scale of existence, I am willing to acknowledge a spark which some would identify as God, though I am entirely unwilling to believe it is the patriarchal, terribly flawed deity described by Judeo-Christian tradition. That deity isn't fit to be a father of one child, let alone father to billions and creator of existence.
Your final question. The answer is the same as why people who believe want to actively convince other to do so as well. We think we know the root of others' suffering and we think we know a better path toward alleviating that suffering. The only difference is there are a gazillion times more people on your side, and they use fear and manipulative tactics as opposed to evidence and logic.
This just needs to be quoted again. Very well said and better than I could ever do.
There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil. Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.
this is funny.
Care to elaborate?
theres no need. you said it all. barly?
I don't understand the cryptic codewords you post when you respond to me. Barly? Yagi? I have to assume it's part of your troll schtick.
nevermind then.
Ok lol I guess God does indeed work in mysterious ways!
do you actually laugh out loud at yourself as often as you type those letters?
are you people still arguing about God? havent you had this discussion 1000 times over? Poupon?
You never tire of trolling the boards so I don't see why we should tire of having intellectual discussions LOL If you feel left out you are welcome to go elsewhere, it's a big internet with plenty of bridges to dwell under and tolls to extract LOL
There's no reason to get personal pjfanwillneverleave, things can be civil. Bash religion all you want, there's no need to bash the people here.
this is funny.
Care to elaborate?
theres no need. you said it all. barly?
I don't understand the cryptic codewords you post when you respond to me. Barly? Yagi? I have to assume it's part of your troll schtick.
nevermind then.
Ok lol I guess God does indeed work in mysterious ways!
do you actually laugh out loud at yourself as often as you type those letters?
are you people still arguing about God? havent you had this discussion 1000 times over? Poupon?
You never tire of trolling the boards so I don't see why we should tire of having intellectual discussions LOL If you feel left out you are welcome to go elsewhere, it's a big internet with plenty of bridges to dwell under and tolls to extract LOL
i wouldnt engage in an intellectual discussion with you if we were the last 2 humans on earth.
again, folks, this is not a religion thread. try to separate the two.
I understand why you want to separate the two, but it isn't an easy task. Religion is the language used to describe a God, so I'm not sure how to extract one from the other. Specific Gods can be avoided, but that leaves little to discuss, doesn't it?
again, folks, this is not a religion thread. try to separate the two.
I understand why you want to separate the two, but it isn't an easy task. Religion is the language used to describe a God, so I'm not sure how to extract one from the other. Specific Gods can be avoided, but that leaves little to discuss, doesn't it?
So after you conquered that hard ass route outside of Innsbruck you didn't look out into the horizon or down at the trail you just came up and thought about god just a little?
again, folks, this is not a religion thread. try to separate the two.
I understand why you want to separate the two, but it isn't an easy task. Religion is the language used to describe a God, so I'm not sure how to extract one from the other. Specific Gods can be avoided, but that leaves little to discuss, doesn't it?
So after you conquered that hard ass route outside of Innsbruck you didn't look out into the horizon or down at the trail you just came up and thought about god just a little?
Honestly, not even a little bit. When life is great I am the type of person who just accepts the positivity without much thought, I am the embodiment of the cliché "live in the moment". I've never felt like I owed thanks to any higher power for the fortune in my life, it's always felt like a natural part of that life, just as misfortune is.
I did, however, think about God when a stormy looking cloud rolled by and we were dangerously exposed. When I need or want luck, when shit hits the fan and the window for success is narrowing, that's when I feel the pull toward faith. I suppose that's part of why I don't trust that pull to faith, because it seems like such a natural, but naïve tendancy. It's easy to feel God when you need to, but what about when you don't need to? Where is that pull? It isn't in me, for whatever reason.
How can you separate the concept of god w/ out discussing religion? This thread can't be discussed unless all angles are discussed. The root cause if you will. You can't have a concept of god w/ out religion no matter how intellectual you may be.
again, folks, this is not a religion thread. try to separate the two.
I understand why you want to separate the two, but it isn't an easy task. Religion is the language used to describe a God, so I'm not sure how to extract one from the other. Specific Gods can be avoided, but that leaves little to discuss, doesn't it?
So after you conquered that hard ass route outside of Innsbruck you didn't look out into the horizon or down at the trail you just came up and thought about god just a little?
Honestly, not even a little bit. When life is great I am the type of person who just accepts the positivity without much thought, I am the embodiment of the cliché "live in the moment". I've never felt like I owed thanks to any higher power for the fortune in my life, it's always felt like a natural part of that life, just as misfortune is.
I did, however, think about God when a stormy looking cloud rolled by and we were dangerously exposed. When I need or want luck, when shit hits the fan and the window for success is narrowing, that's when I feel the pull toward faith. I suppose that's part of why I don't trust that pull to faith, because it seems like such a natural, but naïve tendancy. It's easy to feel God when you need to, but what about when you don't need to? Where is that pull? It isn't in me, for whatever reason.
A most excellent answer! I ve experienced what I call "god s reasoning" a few times. (So I think!)
Will he love me when the flames char my skin and I am gnashing my teeth and wailing? What sort of love is that? Surely not unconditional love. That's the part that I am unable to move past.
again, folks, this is not a religion thread. try to separate the two.
I understand why you want to separate the two, but it isn't an easy task. Religion is the language used to describe a God, so I'm not sure how to extract one from the other. Specific Gods can be avoided, but that leaves little to discuss, doesn't it?
because speaking about religion inevitably leads to people bashing religion, when that wasn't the focus. the focus is "what do you think god is, if god exists". for many, god can exist without the bible/religion.
Well, in your case you're denying the Holy Ghost so why are you questioning if He'd care?
I obviously don't know. Judgment is His thing. But I do believe we all get a chance to repent.
Almost all transgressions called sins are forgivable.
The guilt part to scare is where a lot of these extremes come from. Like someone mentioned before - the 5 year old story. That's kinda like I'll scare you and you can forever have this guilty thought in your head to force you to be good. That lingering thought.
I for a long time believed that if I in fact stepped on a crack I would brake my mother's back!
Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Well, in your case you're denying the Holy Ghost so why are you questioning if He'd care?
I obviously don't know. Judgment is His thing. But I do believe we all get a chance to repent.
Almost all transgressions called sins are forgivable.
The guilt part to scare is where a lot of these extremes come from. Like someone mentioned before - the 5 year old story. That's kinda like I'll scare you and you can forever have this guilty thought in your head to force you to be good. That lingering thought.
I for a long time believed that if I in fact stepped on a crack I would brake my mother's back!
that is what some people find disarming about christian god. he supposedly loves everyone unconditionally, but if you don't love him back to his liking, he sends you to hell for eternity.
That's not true. To His liking is not true. He does not expect us to be perfect. We apologize to Him just like we would to anyone here in the physical world.
Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
That's not true. To His liking is not true. He does not expect us to be perfect. We apologize to Him just like we would to anyone here in the physical world.
Assuming you have children - you teach and expect to your liking..?
of course, but i obviously have compassion and understanding for their faults. if all of a sudden they stop 'honouring me', i won't damn them to hell. i will say live and let live.
Darwinspeed, all.
Cheers,
HFD
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I read something about the concept of there being a "Great Architect" that I somewhat agree with. I've found that a lot of my belief system borrows from several different places. The thing that puzzles me is how in a lot of these belief systems: there's no Female deity. For me a lot of the time, "God" is tied in with Nature. Sun, Moon, Earth, etc..
The earliest religions usually had balance between male and female deities, and that survived in many cultures until the Judeo-Christian beliefs spread and influenced so much of the world.
One of many issues I have with the Catholic Church. Women should definitely be priests and priests should be able to have kids and marry. It cracks me up when priests give martial advice lol.
I wonder if that would have an effect on the problem of molestation?
I honestly think sexual abuse cases would dramatically drop.
I do too, but who knows, it has to be more complicated than just a lack a physical affection. Plenty of people get very lonely without seeking that sort of thing. It seems to me there must be something about priesthood that attracts men susceptible to pedophilic tendancies, it's easier to imagine that than to imagine that it creates those tendancies.
I imagine there are further responses to address this, but gambs, please PLEASE know that loneliness does not create a child molester.
In the same breath, having been married, having children, having sex does not prevent the creation of a child molester.
Pedophiles cross all walks of life, of gender, of family, of profession, of so many reasons.
Trust that it is not so simple and never will be.
For more than 40 years have I given a large fuck you to mine. He never had the right to rectify upon me whatever "lack of physical affection" he experienced. No excuse, and to suggest that is, actually, insulting to the child I was while providing him with whatever he lacked. Fuck him and all the grown men (and women) who were and are like him. Get yourself some fucking help. Put yourself through hell instead of others. Put yourself to get well, to get better. To keep your hands and other body parts off of innocents.
Maybe one day I'll give enough of a shit to try to understand why he did what he did (pretty sure I'm one of many, as those actions are never limited to one - these sick fucks get off on quantity, not just perceived quality). Until that fantastical one day comes, I'll continue to curse his actions and their repercussions.
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Plenty of people get very lonely without seeking that sort of thing.
It seems to me there must be something about priesthood that attracts men susceptible to pedophilic tendancies, it's easier to imagine that than to imagine that it creates those tendancies.
I have to assume it's part of your troll schtick.
Respectful discourse shouldn't be bound by strictures, particularly in the case of religion, where the strictures are often put in place because the pro-religion side has little rebuttal and so seeks to limit the anti-religious argument with emotional pleas.
I guess God does indeed work in mysterious ways!
Cheers,
HFD
are you people still arguing about God? havent you had this discussion 1000 times over? Poupon?
It's called a discussion. People have been discussing this for thousands of years. Some people make this a primary field of study, in fact.
And.... Dijon!
If you feel left out you are welcome to go elsewhere, it's a big internet with plenty of bridges to dwell under and tolls to extract LOL
Religion is the language used to describe a God, so I'm not sure how to extract one from the other.
Specific Gods can be avoided, but that leaves little to discuss, doesn't it?
When life is great I am the type of person who just accepts the positivity without much thought, I am the embodiment of the cliché "live in the moment".
I've never felt like I owed thanks to any higher power for the fortune in my life, it's always felt like a natural part of that life, just as misfortune is.
I did, however, think about God when a stormy looking cloud rolled by and we were dangerously exposed.
When I need or want luck, when shit hits the fan and the window for success is narrowing, that's when I feel the pull toward faith. I suppose that's part of why I don't trust that pull to faith, because it seems like such a natural, but naïve tendancy. It's easy to feel God when you need to, but what about when you don't need to? Where is that pull? It isn't in me, for whatever reason.
I ve experienced what I call "god s reasoning" a few times. (So I think!)
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
That's the part that I am unable to move past.
Cheers,
HFD
I obviously don't know. Judgment is His thing. But I do believe we all get a chance to repent.
Almost all transgressions called sins are forgivable.
The guilt part to scare is where a lot of these extremes come from. Like someone mentioned before - the 5 year old story. That's kinda like I'll scare you and you can forever have this guilty thought in your head to force you to be good. That lingering thought.
I for a long time believed that if I in fact stepped on a crack I would brake my mother's back!
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Cheers,
HFD
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Cheers,
HFD
In the same breath, having been married, having children, having sex does not prevent the creation of a child molester.
Pedophiles cross all walks of life, of gender, of family, of profession, of so many reasons.
Trust that it is not so simple and never will be.
For more than 40 years have I given a large fuck you to mine. He never had the right to rectify upon me whatever "lack of physical affection" he experienced. No excuse, and to suggest that is, actually, insulting to the child I was while providing him with whatever he lacked. Fuck him and all the grown men (and women) who were and are like him. Get yourself some fucking help. Put yourself through hell instead of others. Put yourself to get well, to get better. To keep your hands and other body parts off of innocents.
Maybe one day I'll give enough of a shit to try to understand why he did what he did (pretty sure I'm one of many, as those actions are never limited to one - these sick fucks get off on quantity, not just perceived quality). Until that fantastical one day comes, I'll continue to curse his actions and their repercussions.