Another concept I cant grasp is baptism. I used to be a little uncomfortable during the awkward silence when someone asked me (especially some family) if I was going to or why didn't I get my kids baptized. Now not so much. You could only imagine the answer I gave. So again, to the believers of god why must we baptize? Live and let live.
As a believer, I too sometimes question baptism. I am not baptized. I believe that God exists. I believe that Jesus was his son and was sent to usher out the old law and bring in the new. I know that John baptized Jesus and that people were baptized after that. You were to believe and repent and be baptized. But, and someone correct me if I'm wrong please, it was man who said to be baptized. John 3:16, which I'm sure everyone knows, says to believe in Jesus and you shall be saved. Jews do not get baptized. So since they don't believe in baptism, are they not going to Heaven? Like someone else said, babies are baptized in the Catholic church after their birth. But they can't believe and repent. What have they done wrong? 1 Corinthians 12 talks about being baptized in the spirit, but doesn't mention any water exactly.
I have nothing against baptism. And I definitely don't think there is anything wrong with it or with someone who wants to get baptized and I may get baptized one day, but like I've said before, we all have these different beliefs based on the same book. Man has interpreted it for his own behalf. I guess I need to do more research, but yeah, there are Christians out there who wonder about it too
My sister and I aren't baptized (why would we be, right?), but my sister married a guy who was a non-practicing Catholic, and then divorced him. Then the guy tried to marry another Catholic, and the church wouldn't let him get married again because he was divorced, lol, but from a non-Catholic marriage. So the only way around it was to get the Catholic Church to ceremonially annul the first marriage, but without the participation of my sister. And the only way the Church would annul it for him was to confirm that he had married an unbaptized woman... apparently, his marriage to my sister was considered illegitimate by the Church because she was never baptized, as well as because they didn't marry under the Church. So he simply asked me if she'd been baptized and I said no.... and that was supposedly enough proof as far as the Catholic Church is concerned - no proof necessary - and it annulled a marriage that never even happened with the Church in the first place (presumably, they would have refused to marry them if they'd asked, unless my sister got baptized). A Justice of the Peace married them. I am not sure where in the fuck the Catholic Church gets off doing that to be honest. My sister never agreed to any form of annulment ... somehow she didn't matter at all to the Catholic Church because she wasn't baptized, but at the same time she mattered enough for the Church to "rule" the marriage she was in as illegitimate. Why in the hell does the Church have to "annul" a marriage that they also supposedly don't acknowledge since it was never sanctioned by them in the first place? So incredibly stupid. It really makes no sense. Plus, the whole thing is obviously so lax - you can apparently tell them whatever you want and they just go ahead without proving anything, which simply proves that even the Church knows its full of shit.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I only know Austin 3:16 - Stone Cold just whipped your ass!
In all seriousness, if there is one thing about my brother's religion that makes some sense to me, is that you don't get baptized against your will. it happens as an adult when you can make an informed decision about it. But I still find it odd what baptism illustrates: god doesn't recognize you as a pure soul until you are baptized, so if a baby dies prior to getting baptized, their soul remains in purgatory forever. that's kinda fucked up, no? damning the soul of a dead baby for all eternity?
I only know Austin 3:16 - Stone Cold just whipped your ass!
In all seriousness, if there is one thing about my brother's religion that makes some sense to me, is that you don't get baptized against your will. it happens as an adult when you can make an informed decision about it. But I still find it odd what baptism illustrates: god doesn't recognize you as a pure soul until you are baptized, so if a baby dies prior to getting baptized, their soul remains in purgatory forever. that's kinda fucked up, no? damning the soul of a dead baby for all eternity?
It's beyond fucked up. The whole idea of being punished after death is fucked up in general.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Another concept I cant grasp is baptism. I used to be a little uncomfortable during the awkward silence when someone asked me (especially some family) if I was going to or why didn't I get my kids baptized. Now not so much. You could only imagine the answer I gave. So again, to the believers of god why must we baptize? Live and let live.
As a believer, I too sometimes question baptism. I am not baptized. I believe that God exists. I believe that Jesus was his son and was sent to usher out the old law and bring in the new. I know that John baptized Jesus and that people were baptized after that. You were to believe and repent and be baptized. But, and someone correct me if I'm wrong please, it was man who said to be baptized. John 3:16, which I'm sure everyone knows, says to believe in Jesus and you shall be saved. Jews do not get baptized. So since they don't believe in baptism, are they not going to Heaven? Like someone else said, babies are baptized in the Catholic church after their birth. But they can't believe and repent. What have they done wrong? 1 Corinthians 12 talks about being baptized in the spirit, but doesn't mention any water exactly.
I have nothing against baptism. And I definitely don't think there is anything wrong with it or with someone who wants to get baptized and I may get baptized one day, but like I've said before, we all have these different beliefs based on the same book. Man has interpreted it for his own behalf. I guess I need to do more research, but yeah, there are Christians out there who wonder about it too
I believe Matthew says Jesus said to baptize.
Catholic believe their children are born with a I think it's been referred to as a fallen nature they are to be baptized.
Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
My sister and I aren't baptized (why would we be, right?), but my sister married a guy who was a non-practicing Catholic, and then divorced him. Then the guy tried to marry another Catholic, and the church wouldn't let him get married again because he was divorced, lol, but from a non-Catholic marriage. So the only way around it was to get the Catholic Church to ceremonially annul the first marriage, but without the participation of my sister. And the only way the Church would annul it for him was to confirm that he had married an unbaptized woman... apparently, his marriage to my sister was considered illegitimate by the Church because she was never baptized, as well as because they didn't marry under the Church. So he simply asked me if she'd been baptized and I said no.... and that was supposedly enough proof as far as the Catholic Church is concerned - no proof necessary - and it annulled a marriage that never even happened with the Church in the first place (presumably, they would have refused to marry them if they'd asked, unless my sister got baptized). A Justice of the Peace married them. I am not sure where in the fuck the Catholic Church gets off doing that to be honest. My sister never agreed to any form of annulment ... somehow she didn't matter at all to the Catholic Church because she wasn't baptized, but at the same time she mattered enough for the Church to "rule" the marriage she was in as illegitimate. Why in the hell does the Church have to "annul" a marriage that they also supposedly don't acknowledge since it was never sanctioned by them in the first place? So incredibly stupid. It really makes no sense. Plus, the whole thing is obviously so lax - you can apparently tell them whatever you want and they just go ahead without proving anything, which simply proves that even the Church knows its full of shit.
I agree. Completely jacked up. Many churches Catholic and Lutheran included in my experience chase more people away than they welcome.
Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
I only know Austin 3:16 - Stone Cold just whipped your ass!
In all seriousness, if there is one thing about my brother's religion that makes some sense to me, is that you don't get baptized against your will. it happens as an adult when you can make an informed decision about it. But I still find it odd what baptism illustrates: god doesn't recognize you as a pure soul until you are baptized, so if a baby dies prior to getting baptized, their soul remains in purgatory forever. that's kinda fucked up, no? damning the soul of a dead baby for all eternity?
I don't know but the limbo thing is Catholicism related? I'm not certain but I think the newer Catholic Catechism no longer refers to limbo. But traditionally yes Catholics believe babies are dammed if not baptized. I almost feel like the Bible doesn't address if someone dies before they're baptized soooooooo anything you've heard is man made.....up.
Oh please let it rain today.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
My sister and I aren't baptized (why would we be, right?), but my sister married a guy who was a non-practicing Catholic, and then divorced him. Then the guy tried to marry another Catholic, and the church wouldn't let him get married again because he was divorced, lol, but from a non-Catholic marriage. So the only way around it was to get the Catholic Church to ceremonially annul the first marriage, but without the participation of my sister. And the only way the Church would annul it for him was to confirm that he had married an unbaptized woman... apparently, his marriage to my sister was considered illegitimate by the Church because she was never baptized, as well as because they didn't marry under the Church. So he simply asked me if she'd been baptized and I said no.... and that was supposedly enough proof as far as the Catholic Church is concerned - no proof necessary - and it annulled a marriage that never even happened with the Church in the first place (presumably, they would have refused to marry them if they'd asked, unless my sister got baptized). A Justice of the Peace married them. I am not sure where in the fuck the Catholic Church gets off doing that to be honest. My sister never agreed to any form of annulment ... somehow she didn't matter at all to the Catholic Church because she wasn't baptized, but at the same time she mattered enough for the Church to "rule" the marriage she was in as illegitimate. Why in the hell does the Church have to "annul" a marriage that they also supposedly don't acknowledge since it was never sanctioned by them in the first place? So incredibly stupid. It really makes no sense. Plus, the whole thing is obviously so lax - you can apparently tell them whatever you want and they just go ahead without proving anything, which simply proves that even the Church knows its full of shit.
in my experience the rules are administered and enforced depending on the priest. if you get a progressive one, they don't adhere to that BS. if you get a fundamentalist, they do.
My sister and I aren't baptized (why would we be, right?), but my sister married a guy who was a non-practicing Catholic, and then divorced him. Then the guy tried to marry another Catholic, and the church wouldn't let him get married again because he was divorced, lol, but from a non-Catholic marriage. So the only way around it was to get the Catholic Church to ceremonially annul the first marriage, but without the participation of my sister. And the only way the Church would annul it for him was to confirm that he had married an unbaptized woman... apparently, his marriage to my sister was considered illegitimate by the Church because she was never baptized, as well as because they didn't marry under the Church. So he simply asked me if she'd been baptized and I said no.... and that was supposedly enough proof as far as the Catholic Church is concerned - no proof necessary - and it annulled a marriage that never even happened with the Church in the first place (presumably, they would have refused to marry them if they'd asked, unless my sister got baptized). A Justice of the Peace married them. I am not sure where in the fuck the Catholic Church gets off doing that to be honest. My sister never agreed to any form of annulment ... somehow she didn't matter at all to the Catholic Church because she wasn't baptized, but at the same time she mattered enough for the Church to "rule" the marriage she was in as illegitimate. Why in the hell does the Church have to "annul" a marriage that they also supposedly don't acknowledge since it was never sanctioned by them in the first place? So incredibly stupid. It really makes no sense. Plus, the whole thing is obviously so lax - you can apparently tell them whatever you want and they just go ahead without proving anything, which simply proves that even the Church knows its full of shit.
in my experience the rules are administered and enforced depending on the priest. if you get a progressive one, they don't adhere to that BS. if you get a fundamentalist, they do.
Yet more proof that the whole thing is bullshit. Picking and choosing like that ... I don't understand how any Catholic can think about the Church and all its arbitrary rules and keep a straight face about it.
Post edited by PJ_Soul on
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
My sister and I aren't baptized (why would we be, right?), but my sister married a guy who was a non-practicing Catholic, and then divorced him. Then the guy tried to marry another Catholic, and the church wouldn't let him get married again because he was divorced, lol, but from a non-Catholic marriage. So the only way around it was to get the Catholic Church to ceremonially annul the first marriage, but without the participation of my sister. And the only way the Church would annul it for him was to confirm that he had married an unbaptized woman... apparently, his marriage to my sister was considered illegitimate by the Church because she was never baptized, as well as because they didn't marry under the Church. So he simply asked me if she'd been baptized and I said no.... and that was supposedly enough proof as far as the Catholic Church is concerned - no proof necessary - and it annulled a marriage that never even happened with the Church in the first place (presumably, they would have refused to marry them if they'd asked, unless my sister got baptized). A Justice of the Peace married them. I am not sure where in the fuck the Catholic Church gets off doing that to be honest. My sister never agreed to any form of annulment ... somehow she didn't matter at all to the Catholic Church because she wasn't baptized, but at the same time she mattered enough for the Church to "rule" the marriage she was in as illegitimate. Why in the hell does the Church have to "annul" a marriage that they also supposedly don't acknowledge since it was never sanctioned by them in the first place? So incredibly stupid. It really makes no sense. Plus, the whole thing is obviously so lax - you can apparently tell them whatever you want and they just go ahead without proving anything, which simply proves that even the Church knows its full of shit.
My soon to be ex-wife(the big day is next week) was raised catholic and we got married in a catholic church. It was an abridged catholic wedding because I'm not catholic. While discussing all of our agreed arrangements she brought up us having to get annulled by the church or we would not be aloud to marry in the catholic church again. I just laughed and told her that I didn't care and I don't need permission from the church.
If I do ever get married again I want to be in Vegas in front of Elvis.
I was baptized when I was one year old, no permission given.
i keep the Bible cause my Gramma gave it to me, I have another one I got from the Gideon's and keep it for nolstagic Rocky Racoon reasons.
i sometimes think that creating a human, being born is a miracle albeit biological, and dying might be the same, just doesn't look that way. So many things we think we have it figured out thru either science or theory, only to realize in hindsight that we didn't have it figured out at all, so I guess I might look at it like that. Don't really know exactly how my spirit came into this world and I'm not sure how it will go out, but "I'll ride the wave where it takes me".
id like to hear from people that believe in God, that had no religious upbringing. What was their journey that brought them to believe?
yes good talk.
Amy
Post edited by amethgr8 on
Amy The Great #74594
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Another good reason to keep a Bible is for its literary value. For all its bullshit and way too many begats, it is a pretty stunning work of literature that demands respect in the academic and artistic sense.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
There has been so much disinformation out there, and so many theories, religions, denominations, variations lousy preachers, it's no wonder that there is so much confusion among many well intentioned people. Baptism for example has been brought up here, and questioned rightfully so. Baptism is basically a public showing of one's faith. It's a fine & good thing to do if you choose to, but it's not a necessary requirement for salvation. Here is your proof. During the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, if you look at it, there were three crosses there. Jesus in the center and two malfactors one on each side (criminals). Right towards the end of this whole crusifiction process, when time was running out for all of them from hanging on the crosses. One of the malfactors while hanging on his own cross, turned towards Jesus realized what was actually going on, and verbally repented to Jesus right then and there, asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ right there. Jesus said "From this Day Forward You Will Be in Paradise With Me. Right on the spot. You have to remember that Jesus is none other than God Himself in the flesh. So this is a really big deal! Jesus did (NOT) not say "Hey Stop Everything, Hold On,,, This Man Has To Be Baptized Before he Can Be Saved.". There is your proof that you do not need to be baptized in order to be accepted by our Lord Jesus. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Let's break this down a little shall we. It says "WHO SO EVER". It does not say only the baptized, it does not say Only Fat White Men,. It doesn't say only Plummers. It does not say only people who live in Ant Artica or only people north of the equator. It says WHO SO EVER believe it in Him. That means you accept Him and repent, He will take You. Jesus says that once He forgives you for something He does not even want you to bring it up again He forgives you and wants you to move on. If you stick to God's word you really can't go wrong, you really can't. But if you listen to traditions of men and all these churches have their own rules like divorcees have to sit in the back of the church. And Oh yes yes my favorite,, they sing and sing and sing praise the lord, and but they can't wait to pass the $-hat-$ around for donation$!! By the way Jesus said if you're gonna teach My Word, don't bring a begging bag. If they beg for money, I didn't send them." You have a lot of one verse Charlie's those would be the ones who recite one Bible verse and then blow hot air for the next 45 minutes,, those you want to stay away from too. The only teachers of God's Word you should pay attention to if at all, are the ones who teach the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse. And keep MAN out of it as much as possible.
My sister and I aren't baptized (why would we be, right?), but my sister married a guy who was a non-practicing Catholic, and then divorced him. Then the guy tried to marry another Catholic, and the church wouldn't let him get married again because he was divorced, lol, but from a non-Catholic marriage. So the only way around it was to get the Catholic Church to ceremonially annul the first marriage, but without the participation of my sister. And the only way the Church would annul it for him was to confirm that he had married an unbaptized woman... apparently, his marriage to my sister was considered illegitimate by the Church because she was never baptized, as well as because they didn't marry under the Church. So he simply asked me if she'd been baptized and I said no.... and that was supposedly enough proof as far as the Catholic Church is concerned - no proof necessary - and it annulled a marriage that never even happened with the Church in the first place (presumably, they would have refused to marry them if they'd asked, unless my sister got baptized). A Justice of the Peace married them. I am not sure where in the fuck the Catholic Church gets off doing that to be honest. My sister never agreed to any form of annulment ... somehow she didn't matter at all to the Catholic Church because she wasn't baptized, but at the same time she mattered enough for the Church to "rule" the marriage she was in as illegitimate. Why in the hell does the Church have to "annul" a marriage that they also supposedly don't acknowledge since it was never sanctioned by them in the first place? So incredibly stupid. It really makes no sense. Plus, the whole thing is obviously so lax - you can apparently tell them whatever you want and they just go ahead without proving anything, which simply proves that even the Church knows its full of shit.
in my experience the rules are administered and enforced depending on the priest. if you get a progressive one, they don't adhere to that BS. if you get a fundamentalist, they do.
Yet more proof that the whole thing is bullshit. Picking and choosing like that ... I don't understand how any Catholic can think about the Church and all its arbitrary rules and keep a straight face about it.
When facts and reason aren't needed you can pick/choose/change anything you want.
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hedonist
standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
I like how this thread is about (or started out as) the concept of god, vs. religion(s)...though I guess they can be intertwined. Don't have to be, but often are.
The OP is a good man, one who I think ponders much, is sometimes hard on himself, has immense love for his family. And is open-minded.
Guess in the end, I'm OK with being agnostic / not knowing (what IS the correct term?). I've had fun poked at me over the years for this from others firm in their beliefs in response to my...unfirm ones. Not a euphemism, by the way Others seeing this differently than I help me to do the same in turn. Minds don't have to meld on this itself or anything else, really, but many a time, just the effort aids the conversation.
I keep sensing there's some connection of energy, of wavelengths, whether living to living, living to not. I'm certainly open to that...almost welcome it...and doesn't seem non-sensical to me.. Who knows if that's some form of god? Not sure I'd want to use someone else's definition since I don't even know my own.
As mentioned earlier here or somewhere else - when I die, take whatever usable parts of me that will do good in some way, then either cremate my remains or put me in the ground, Nate Fisher style.
There has been so much disinformation out there, and so many theories, religions, denominations, variations lousy preachers, it's no wonder that there is so much confusion among many well intentioned people. Baptism for example has been brought up here, and questioned rightfully so. Baptism is basically a public showing of one's faith. It's a fine & good thing to do if you choose to, but it's not a necessary requirement for salvation. Here is your proof. During the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, if you look at it, there were three crosses there. Jesus in the center and two malfactors one on each side (criminals). Right towards the end of this whole crusifiction process, when time was running out for all of them from hanging on the crosses. One of the malfactors while hanging on his own cross, turned towards Jesus realized what was actually going on, and verbally repented to Jesus right then and there, asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ right there. Jesus said "From this Day Forward You Will Be in Paradise With Me. Right on the spot. You have to remember that Jesus is none other than God Himself in the flesh. So this is a really big deal! Jesus did (NOT) not say "Hey Stop Everything, Hold On,,, This Man Has To Be Baptized Before he Can Be Saved.". There is your proof that you do not need to be baptized in order to be accepted by our Lord Jesus. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Let's break this down a little shall we. It says "WHO SO EVER". It does not say only the baptized, it does not say Only Fat White Men,. It doesn't say only Plummers. It does not say only people who live in Ant Artica or only people north of the equator. It says WHO SO EVER believe it in Him. That means you accept Him and repent, He will take You. Jesus says that once He forgives you for something He does not even want you to bring it up again He forgives you and wants you to move on. If you stick to God's word you really can't go wrong, you really can't. But if you listen to traditions of men and all these churches have their own rules like divorcees have to sit in the back of the church. And Oh yes yes my favorite,, they sing and sing and sing praise the lord, and but they can't wait to pass the $-hat-$ around for donation$!! By the way Jesus said if you're gonna teach My Word, don't bring a begging bag. If they beg for money, I didn't send them." You have a lot of one verse Charlie's those would be the ones who recite one Bible verse and then blow hot air for the next 45 minutes,, those you want to stay away from too. The only teachers of God's Word you should pay attention to if at all, are the ones who teach the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse. And keep MAN out of it as much as possible.
There has been so much disinformation out there, and so many theories, religions, denominations, variations lousy preachers, it's no wonder that there is so much confusion among many well intentioned people. Baptism for example has been brought up here, and questioned rightfully so. Baptism is basically a public showing of one's faith. It's a fine & good thing to do if you choose to, but it's not a necessary requirement for salvation. Here is your proof. During the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, if you look at it, there were three crosses there. Jesus in the center and two malfactors one on each side (criminals). Right towards the end of this whole crusifiction process, when time was running out for all of them from hanging on the crosses. One of the malfactors while hanging on his own cross, turned towards Jesus realized what was actually going on, and verbally repented to Jesus right then and there, asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ right there. Jesus said "From this Day Forward You Will Be in Paradise With Me. Right on the spot. Jesus did (NOT) not say "Hey Stop Everything, Hold On,,, This Man Has To Be Baptized Before he Can Be Saved.". There is your proof that you do not need to be baptized in order to be accepted by our Lord Jesus. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Let's break this down a little shall we. It says "WHO SO EVER". It does not say only the baptized, it does not say Only Fat White Men,. It doesn't say only Plummers. It does not say only people who live in Ant Artica or only people north of the equator. It says WHO SO EVER believe it in Him. That means you accept Him and repent, He will take You. Jesus says that once He forgives you for something He does not even want you to bring it up again He forgives you and wants you to move on. If your stick to God's word you really can't go wrong, you really can't. But if you listen to traditions of men and all these churches have their own rules like divorcees have to sit in the back of the church. And Oh yes yes my favorite,, they sing and sing and sing praise the lord, and but they can't wait to pass the $-hat-$ around for donation$!! By the way Jesus said if you're gonna teach My Word, don't bring a begging bag. If they beg for money, I didn't send them." You have a lot of one verse Charlie's those would be the ones who recite one Bible verse and then blow hot air for the next 45 minutes,, those you want to stay away from too. The only teachers of God's Word you should pay attention to if at all, are the ones who teach the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse. And keep MAN out of it as much as possible. If all of this helps even one person, I would be thrilled.
There has been so much disinformation out there, and so many theories, religions, denominations, variations lousy preachers, it's no wonder that there is so much confusion among many well intentioned people. Baptism for example has been brought up here, and questioned rightfully so. Baptism is basically a public showing of one's faith. It's a fine & good thing to do if you choose to, but it's not a necessary requirement for salvation. Here is your proof. During the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, if you look at it, there were three crosses there. Jesus in the center and two malfactors one on each side (criminals). Right towards the end of this whole crusifiction process, when time was running out for all of them from hanging on the crosses. One of the malfactors while hanging on his own cross, turned towards Jesus realized what was actually going on, and verbally repented to Jesus right then and there, asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ right there. Jesus said "From this Day Forward You Will Be in Paradise With Me. Right on the spot. You have to remember that Jesus is none other than God Himself in the flesh. So this is a really big deal! Jesus did (NOT) not say "Hey Stop Everything, Hold On,,, This Man Has To Be Baptized Before he Can Be Saved.". There is your proof that you do not need to be baptized in order to be accepted by our Lord Jesus. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Let's break this down a little shall we. It says "WHO SO EVER". It does not say only the baptized, it does not say Only Fat White Men,. It doesn't say only Plummers. It does not say only people who live in Ant Artica or only people north of the equator. It says WHO SO EVER believe it in Him. That means you accept Him and repent, He will take You. Jesus says that once He forgives you for something He does not even want you to bring it up again He forgives you and wants you to move on. If you stick to God's word you really can't go wrong, you really can't. But if you listen to traditions of men and all these churches have their own rules like divorcees have to sit in the back of the church. And Oh yes yes my favorite,, they sing and sing and sing praise the lord, and but they can't wait to pass the $-hat-$ around for donation$!! By the way Jesus said if you're gonna teach My Word, don't bring a begging bag. If they beg for money, I didn't send them." You have a lot of one verse Charlie's those would be the ones who recite one Bible verse and then blow hot air for the next 45 minutes,, those you want to stay away from too. The only teachers of God's Word you should pay attention to if at all, are the ones who teach the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse. And keep MAN out of it as much as possible.
Question for you.
What happens to someone who dies that doesn't believe in god/jesus?
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
The average Joe has wounds in the center of their hands?
If this were a perfect world. Think perfect. Would anyone question why it's His right to rule? No one would question anything? No one? The world would just be perfect? I think He already tried that.
The average Joe has wounds in the center of their hands?
If this were a perfect world. Think perfect. Would anyone question why it's His right to rule? No one would question anything? No one? The world would just be perfect? I think He already tried that.
I say average Joe about this mock picture with the guy drinking PBR beer in one hand while smoking an American Spirit in the other. This was a joke picture to start with. And that's what I do pritty much daily, drink beer and smoke American Spirits. If you want to get serious about our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ I can do that. This is a difficult forum to get serious in though. I would like to make some good points without pissing people off that's the tricky part. You have all these atheists and agnostics, and God skeptics here. It's hard to decide where to begin to try to make a dent in this skepticism here. Here is something for the skeptics to ponder,,. I've seen it asked a few times now. "If there is a God, he is bad & terrible to allow all the murder, rape & mayhem that goes on." Well, the answers to these (very good questions by the way) are layed out really well in the bible itself. I like The Standard King James Bible for a number of reasons I d be glad to answer if anyone asks. If you take the time to study, all the answers to your deepest questions are in the bible usually multiple times . But you have to familiarize yourself with the bible to know where to look. Ok here it is. Murder ( criminal homicide)(to lie in wait) Your answer to how God feels about this is in Deuteronomy Chapter 19 Verse 11. I don't have time to quote the whole bible here. Read it for you self. He demands that if convicted in a court of law, beond any doubt, Capital Punishment is required. He says, basically send them to Me and murderers will cease to live among you. But some bleeding heart will say we can't have capital punishment that won't solve anything. Well the guy who murdered and was disposed of damn sure won't do it again that's for sure. Rape (Forced to lie with). Deuteronomy chapter 22 verse 25 I'll quote this one. Duteronomy Chapter 22 vs 25 But if a man find a betrothed damsel in the field, and the man FORCE her, and lie with her: then the man only that lay with her shall die: So you see it's not God who allows this mayhem to continue but rather the courts politics and mankind who let murderers and rapists go on with little or no prison time. So is that God who allows it? No He demands capital punishment it is our week court system and weak kneed citizens who allow rapist and murders back on the streets. I cannot go on and on about every claim here but you see if you look around you can find the answers that skeptical people have and rightfully so with so many denominations and so many different backgrounds and viewpoints it is difficult to find the truth but there is a truth out there. You just have to know where to find it.
The bible - written by people of that time, with the knowledge and understanding of people of that time.
And then translated and retranslated and retranslated, until it bears little relationship to whatever the original was.
The King James Bible was completed in 1611. The 1611 KJB was written in Old English so it wouldn't be a good study bible. The significance of it is this. The people who put it together did everything thing they could to translate every word from the manuscripts. From Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic to English. There is a letter at the beginning of a 1611 KJB. Stating that they made every effort to get every word right. But they knew on some words, that there was a chance or likely hood that they just might get a translation flat wrong here or there. So they suggest to check out any word that doesn't make sense. That is why in addition to a standard King James Bible it is helpful to have a Dr. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance. Where buy every word in the Bible is in there, next to the original word and definition. A quick example, most people have heard that God took the rib out of Adam and created Eve. That word (rib) always had me puzzled. I could not picture in my head a man named Adam laying on the ground with some Being taking a boney bloody rib out of his chest in creating a woman out of that it didn't make sense to me. So I finally checked the word (RIB) out in the Strong's exhaustive Concordance and you will find that the original Hebrew translated to English the word was (CURVE)(not RIB.) So maby God took the Helix Curve out of the man Adam and made a feminine mate if you will, for Adam.. Maby God knew about DNA and stem cells long before the scientists discovered it recently. And women are definitely curvier than men. Make sense to me.
Interesting that you left out the ecumenical councils that rejected and favored sections of the Bible as it originally existed.
On the one hand, it's not necessary or nice to mock people. On the other hand... It's really fucking annoying and Sometimes infuriating that I am expected to be accepting of people's delusions simply because they are shared by many.
I'm not going to sit and listen to a Nazi say, "I believe Hitler, we are the superior race and we need to exterminate the inferior races". I'm not going to put on my PC voice and say, "well, I disagree, but I respect your belief." Bullshit, I'm telling the Nazi they are full of shit and they can fuck off unless they are hungry for knuckles. Same goes for Goddies, minus the knuckles.
Yes, I did compare God to Hitler, and it is an apt comparison. They both positioned themselves as the father of all, they both spent far too much time talking about superior races and chosen people, and they both personally orchestrated genocides.
On the one hand, it's not necessary or nice to mock people. On the other hand... It's really fucking annoying and Sometimes infuriating that I am expected to be accepting of people's delusions simply because they are shared by many.
I'm not going to sit and listen to a Nazi say, "I believe Hitler, we are the superior race and we need to exterminate the inferior races". I'm not going to put on my PC voice and say, "well, I disagree, but I respect your belief." Bullshit, I'm telling the Nazi they are full of shit and they can fuck off unless they are hungry for knuckles. Same goes for Goddies, minus the knuckles.
Yes, I did compare God to Hitler, and it is an apt comparison. They both positioned themselves as the father of all, they both spent far too much time talking about superior races and chosen people, and they both personally orchestrated genocides.
I hear you. I do wonder what life would be like if the majority of people didn't believe in invisible men.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
There has been so much disinformation out there, and so many theories, religions, denominations, variations lousy preachers, it's no wonder that there is so much confusion among many well intentioned people. Baptism for example has been brought up here, and questioned rightfully so. Baptism is basically a public showing of one's faith. It's a fine & good thing to do if you choose to, but it's not a necessary requirement for salvation. Here is your proof. During the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, if you look at it, there were three crosses there. Jesus in the center and two malfactors one on each side (criminals). Right towards the end of this whole crusifiction process, when time was running out for all of them from hanging on the crosses. One of the malfactors while hanging on his own cross, turned towards Jesus realized what was actually going on, and verbally repented to Jesus right then and there, asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ right there. Jesus said "From this Day Forward You Will Be in Paradise With Me. Right on the spot. You have to remember that Jesus is none other than God Himself in the flesh. So this is a really big deal! Jesus did (NOT) not say "Hey Stop Everything, Hold On,,, This Man Has To Be Baptized Before he Can Be Saved.". There is your proof that you do not need to be baptized in order to be accepted by our Lord Jesus. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Let's break this down a little shall we. It says "WHO SO EVER". It does not say only the baptized, it does not say Only Fat White Men,. It doesn't say only Plummers. It does not say only people who live in Ant Artica or only people north of the equator. It says WHO SO EVER believe it in Him. That means you accept Him and repent, He will take You. Jesus says that once He forgives you for something He does not even want you to bring it up again He forgives you and wants you to move on. If you stick to God's word you really can't go wrong, you really can't. But if you listen to traditions of men and all these churches have their own rules like divorcees have to sit in the back of the church. And Oh yes yes my favorite,, they sing and sing and sing praise the lord, and but they can't wait to pass the $-hat-$ around for donation$!! By the way Jesus said if you're gonna teach My Word, don't bring a begging bag. If they beg for money, I didn't send them." You have a lot of one verse Charlie's those would be the ones who recite one Bible verse and then blow hot air for the next 45 minutes,, those you want to stay away from too. The only teachers of God's Word you should pay attention to if at all, are the ones who teach the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse. And keep MAN out of it as much as possible.
see, this is what I like to see. someone who is a believer but can still see the hypocrisy in the church for doing all the things that jesus/god stated not to do. it bothers me to no end how the church has bastardized the original message for (seemingly) their own financial/political gain.
I wonder.......I accepted jesus into my heart when i was but a wee lad when my parents sent us to bible camp. But now I don't believe. does that cross me off the list of getting past the Gates when I die if it all turns out to be real, or does the original spiritual transaction still hold?
Darwinspeed, all.
Cheers,
HFD
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,675
I like how this thread is about (or started out as) the concept of god, vs. religion(s)...though I guess they can be intertwined. Don't have to be, but often are.
The OP is a good man, one who I think ponders much, is sometimes hard on himself, has immense love for his family. And is open-minded.
Guess in the end, I'm OK with being agnostic / not knowing (what IS the correct term?). I've had fun poked at me over the years for this from others firm in their beliefs in response to my...unfirm ones. Not a euphemism, by the way Others seeing this differently than I help me to do the same in turn. Minds don't have to meld on this itself or anything else, really, but many a time, just the effort aids the conversation.
I keep sensing there's some connection of energy, of wavelengths, whether living to living, living to not. I'm certainly open to that...almost welcome it...and doesn't seem non-sensical to me.. Who knows if that's some form of god? Not sure I'd want to use someone else's definition since I don't even know my own.
As mentioned earlier here or somewhere else - when I die, take whatever usable parts of me that will do good in some way, then either cremate my remains or put me in the ground, Nate Fisher style.
Or Willie Nelson style
Thanks for a great read this far, all.
The Tao of Willie -- there's a religion I can get behind!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Anyone not raised with a religion and came around to believe in God? If so, how did it happen? Just trying to stay on track with OP.
I'm okay with not knowing. There are so many things I don't know and won't before my time comes.
amy
Amy The Great #74594
New Orleans LA 7/4/95 reschedule 9/17/95
Chicago IL 1998, 10/9/00, 06/18/03, 05/16/06, 05/17/06
08/23/09, 08/24/09, Lolla 08/05/07
Champaign IL 4/23/03
Grand Rapids MI VFC 10/03/04
Grand Rapids MI 19May06
Noblesville IN 05/07/10 Cleveland OH 05/09/10
PJ 20 2011
Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Seattle WA 2013
St. Louis MO, Milwaukee WI 2014
Tampa FL, Chicago IL, Lexington KY 2016 Missoula MT 2018
There has been so much disinformation out there, and so many theories, religions, denominations, variations lousy preachers, it's no wonder that there is so much confusion among many well intentioned people. Baptism for example has been brought up here, and questioned rightfully so. Baptism is basically a public showing of one's faith. It's a fine & good thing to do if you choose to, but it's not a necessary requirement for salvation. Here is your proof. During the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, if you look at it, there were three crosses there. Jesus in the center and two malfactors one on each side (criminals). Right towards the end of this whole crusifiction process, when time was running out for all of them from hanging on the crosses. One of the malfactors while hanging on his own cross, turned towards Jesus realized what was actually going on, and verbally repented to Jesus right then and there, asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ right there. Jesus said "From this Day Forward You Will Be in Paradise With Me. Right on the spot. You have to remember that Jesus is none other than God Himself in the flesh. So this is a really big deal! Jesus did (NOT) not say "Hey Stop Everything, Hold On,,, This Man Has To Be Baptized Before he Can Be Saved.". There is your proof that you do not need to be baptized in order to be accepted by our Lord Jesus. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Let's break this down a little shall we. It says "WHO SO EVER". It does not say only the baptized, it does not say Only Fat White Men,. It doesn't say only Plummers. It does not say only people who live in Ant Artica or only people north of the equator. It says WHO SO EVER believe it in Him. That means you accept Him and repent, He will take You. Jesus says that once He forgives you for something He does not even want you to bring it up again He forgives you and wants you to move on. If you stick to God's word you really can't go wrong, you really can't. But if you listen to traditions of men and all these churches have their own rules like divorcees have to sit in the back of the church. And Oh yes yes my favorite,, they sing and sing and sing praise the lord, and but they can't wait to pass the $-hat-$ around for donation$!! By the way Jesus said if you're gonna teach My Word, don't bring a begging bag. If they beg for money, I didn't send them." You have a lot of one verse Charlie's those would be the ones who recite one Bible verse and then blow hot air for the next 45 minutes,, those you want to stay away from too. The only teachers of God's Word you should pay attention to if at all, are the ones who teach the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse. And keep MAN out of it as much as possible.
see, this is what I like to see. someone who is a believer but can still see the hypocrisy in the church for doing all the things that jesus/god stated not to do. it bothers me to no end how the church has bastardized the original message for (seemingly) their own financial/political gain.
I wonder.......I accepted jesus into my heart when i was but a wee lad when my parents sent us to bible camp. But now I don't believe. does that cross me off the list of getting past the Gates when I die if it all turns out to be real, or does the original spiritual transaction still hold?
Jesus said I will never leave you nor forsake you. You might leave Him. But He won't leave you. Here is the thing, He Loves You. He is not a ball of energy somewhere waiting to zap you. He understands the confusions of the world and how peoples beliefs can come and go. Jesus Himself is (long-suffering) that is to say he has lots of patience. And yes sir he has time for you.
There has been so much disinformation out there, and so many theories, religions, denominations, variations lousy preachers, it's no wonder that there is so much confusion among many well intentioned people. Baptism for example has been brought up here, and questioned rightfully so. Baptism is basically a public showing of one's faith. It's a fine & good thing to do if you choose to, but it's not a necessary requirement for salvation. Here is your proof. During the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, if you look at it, there were three crosses there. Jesus in the center and two malfactors one on each side (criminals). Right towards the end of this whole crusifiction process, when time was running out for all of them from hanging on the crosses. One of the malfactors while hanging on his own cross, turned towards Jesus realized what was actually going on, and verbally repented to Jesus right then and there, asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ right there. Jesus said "From this Day Forward You Will Be in Paradise With Me. Right on the spot. You have to remember that Jesus is none other than God Himself in the flesh. So this is a really big deal! Jesus did (NOT) not say "Hey Stop Everything, Hold On,,, This Man Has To Be Baptized Before he Can Be Saved.". There is your proof that you do not need to be baptized in order to be accepted by our Lord Jesus. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Let's break this down a little shall we. It says "WHO SO EVER". It does not say only the baptized, it does not say Only Fat White Men,. It doesn't say only Plummers. It does not say only people who live in Ant Artica or only people north of the equator. It says WHO SO EVER believe it in Him. That means you accept Him and repent, He will take You. Jesus says that once He forgives you for something He does not even want you to bring it up again He forgives you and wants you to move on. If you stick to God's word you really can't go wrong, you really can't. But if you listen to traditions of men and all these churches have their own rules like divorcees have to sit in the back of the church. And Oh yes yes my favorite,, they sing and sing and sing praise the lord, and but they can't wait to pass the $-hat-$ around for donation$!! By the way Jesus said if you're gonna teach My Word, don't bring a begging bag. If they beg for money, I didn't send them." You have a lot of one verse Charlie's those would be the ones who recite one Bible verse and then blow hot air for the next 45 minutes,, those you want to stay away from too. The only teachers of God's Word you should pay attention to if at all, are the ones who teach the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse. And keep MAN out of it as much as possible.
see, this is what I like to see. someone who is a believer but can still see the hypocrisy in the church for doing all the things that jesus/god stated not to do. it bothers me to no end how the church has bastardized the original message for (seemingly) their own financial/political gain.
I wonder.......I accepted jesus into my heart when i was but a wee lad when my parents sent us to bible camp. But now I don't believe. does that cross me off the list of getting past the Gates when I die if it all turns out to be real, or does the original spiritual transaction still hold?
Jesus said I will never leave you nor forsake you. You might leave Him. But He won't leave you. Here is the thing, He Loves You. He is not a ball of energy somewhere waiting to zap you. He understands the confusions of the world and how peoples beliefs can come and go. Jesus Himself is (long-suffering) that is to say he has lots of patience. And yes sir he has time for you.
That is not an answer to the question, it is sidestepping the question.
There has been so much disinformation out there, and so many theories, religions, denominations, variations lousy preachers, it's no wonder that there is so much confusion among many well intentioned people. Baptism for example has been brought up here, and questioned rightfully so. Baptism is basically a public showing of one's faith. It's a fine & good thing to do if you choose to, but it's not a necessary requirement for salvation. Here is your proof. During the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, if you look at it, there were three crosses there. Jesus in the center and two malfactors one on each side (criminals). Right towards the end of this whole crusifiction process, when time was running out for all of them from hanging on the crosses. One of the malfactors while hanging on his own cross, turned towards Jesus realized what was actually going on, and verbally repented to Jesus right then and there, asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ right there. Jesus said "From this Day Forward You Will Be in Paradise With Me. Right on the spot. You have to remember that Jesus is none other than God Himself in the flesh. So this is a really big deal! Jesus did (NOT) not say "Hey Stop Everything, Hold On,,, This Man Has To Be Baptized Before he Can Be Saved.". There is your proof that you do not need to be baptized in order to be accepted by our Lord Jesus. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Let's break this down a little shall we. It says "WHO SO EVER". It does not say only the baptized, it does not say Only Fat White Men,. It doesn't say only Plummers. It does not say only people who live in Ant Artica or only people north of the equator. It says WHO SO EVER believe it in Him. That means you accept Him and repent, He will take You. Jesus says that once He forgives you for something He does not even want you to bring it up again He forgives you and wants you to move on. If you stick to God's word you really can't go wrong, you really can't. But if you listen to traditions of men and all these churches have their own rules like divorcees have to sit in the back of the church. And Oh yes yes my favorite,, they sing and sing and sing praise the lord, and but they can't wait to pass the $-hat-$ around for donation$!! By the way Jesus said if you're gonna teach My Word, don't bring a begging bag. If they beg for money, I didn't send them." You have a lot of one verse Charlie's those would be the ones who recite one Bible verse and then blow hot air for the next 45 minutes,, those you want to stay away from too. The only teachers of God's Word you should pay attention to if at all, are the ones who teach the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse. And keep MAN out of it as much as possible.
see, this is what I like to see. someone who is a believer but can still see the hypocrisy in the church for doing all the things that jesus/god stated not to do. it bothers me to no end how the church has bastardized the original message for (seemingly) their own financial/political gain.
I wonder.......I accepted jesus into my heart when i was but a wee lad when my parents sent us to bible camp. But now I don't believe. does that cross me off the list of getting past the Gates when I die if it all turns out to be real, or does the original spiritual transaction still hold?
Jesus said I will never leave you nor forsake you. You might leave Him. But He won't leave you. Here is the thing, He Loves You. He is not a ball of energy somewhere waiting to zap you. He understands the confusions of the world and how peoples beliefs can come and go. Jesus Himself is (long-suffering) that is to say he has lots of patience. And yes sir he has time for you.
That is not an answer to the question, it is sidestepping the question.
doesn't matter. my question was worded somewhat tongue-in-cheek as it was more rhetorical than anything.
There has been so much disinformation out there, and so many theories, religions, denominations, variations lousy preachers, it's no wonder that there is so much confusion among many well intentioned people. Baptism for example has been brought up here, and questioned rightfully so. Baptism is basically a public showing of one's faith. It's a fine & good thing to do if you choose to, but it's not a necessary requirement for salvation. Here is your proof. During the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, if you look at it, there were three crosses there. Jesus in the center and two malfactors one on each side (criminals). Right towards the end of this whole crusifiction process, when time was running out for all of them from hanging on the crosses. One of the malfactors while hanging on his own cross, turned towards Jesus realized what was actually going on, and verbally repented to Jesus right then and there, asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ right there. Jesus said "From this Day Forward You Will Be in Paradise With Me. Right on the spot. You have to remember that Jesus is none other than God Himself in the flesh. So this is a really big deal! Jesus did (NOT) not say "Hey Stop Everything, Hold On,,, This Man Has To Be Baptized Before he Can Be Saved.". There is your proof that you do not need to be baptized in order to be accepted by our Lord Jesus. John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life. Let's break this down a little shall we. It says "WHO SO EVER". It does not say only the baptized, it does not say Only Fat White Men,. It doesn't say only Plummers. It does not say only people who live in Ant Artica or only people north of the equator. It says WHO SO EVER believe it in Him. That means you accept Him and repent, He will take You. Jesus says that once He forgives you for something He does not even want you to bring it up again He forgives you and wants you to move on. If you stick to God's word you really can't go wrong, you really can't. But if you listen to traditions of men and all these churches have their own rules like divorcees have to sit in the back of the church. And Oh yes yes my favorite,, they sing and sing and sing praise the lord, and but they can't wait to pass the $-hat-$ around for donation$!! By the way Jesus said if you're gonna teach My Word, don't bring a begging bag. If they beg for money, I didn't send them." You have a lot of one verse Charlie's those would be the ones who recite one Bible verse and then blow hot air for the next 45 minutes,, those you want to stay away from too. The only teachers of God's Word you should pay attention to if at all, are the ones who teach the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse. And keep MAN out of it as much as possible.
see, this is what I like to see. someone who is a believer but can still see the hypocrisy in the church for doing all the things that jesus/god stated not to do. it bothers me to no end how the church has bastardized the original message for (seemingly) their own financial/political gain.
I wonder.......I accepted jesus into my heart when i was but a wee lad when my parents sent us to bible camp. But now I don't believe. does that cross me off the list of getting past the Gates when I die if it all turns out to be real, or does the original spiritual transaction still hold?
Jesus said I will never leave you nor forsake you. You might leave Him. But He won't leave you. Here is the thing, He Loves You. He is not a ball of energy somewhere waiting to zap you. He understands the confusions of the world and how peoples beliefs can come and go. Jesus Himself is (long-suffering) that is to say he has lots of patience. And yes sir he has time for you.
That is not an answer to the question, it is sidestepping the question.
doesn't matter. my question was worded somewhat tongue-in-cheek as it was more rhetorical than anything.
This is a tough forum to be a believer in. You can't say my comments don't go unchallenged. But that's fine. I just try to spread around seeds of truth hoping that some of it takes. I know that most of it probably won't. I'm not the judge. My answer to your question is, I think that you Hugh will do just fine.
Comments
unprovable checks out for me. Although my spellcheck is Canadian.
Cheers,
HFD
I have nothing against baptism. And I definitely don't think there is anything wrong with it or with someone who wants to get baptized and I may get baptized one day, but like I've said before, we all have these different beliefs based on the same book. Man has interpreted it for his own behalf. I guess I need to do more research, but yeah, there are Christians out there who wonder about it too
In all seriousness, if there is one thing about my brother's religion that makes some sense to me, is that you don't get baptized against your will. it happens as an adult when you can make an informed decision about it. But I still find it odd what baptism illustrates: god doesn't recognize you as a pure soul until you are baptized, so if a baby dies prior to getting baptized, their soul remains in purgatory forever. that's kinda fucked up, no? damning the soul of a dead baby for all eternity?
Cheers,
HFD
Catholic believe their children are born with a I think it's been referred to as a fallen nature they are to be baptized.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Cheers,
HFD
If I do ever get married again I want to be in Vegas in front of Elvis.
Columbus-2003
Cincinnati-2006
Columbus-2010
Wrigley-2013
Cincinnati-2014
Lexington-2016
Wrigley 1 & 2-2018
i keep the Bible cause my Gramma gave it to me, I have another one I got from the Gideon's and keep it for nolstagic Rocky Racoon reasons.
i sometimes think that creating a human, being born is a miracle albeit biological, and dying might be the same, just doesn't look that way. So many things we think we have it figured out thru either science or theory, only to realize in hindsight that we didn't have it figured out at all, so I guess I might look at it like that. Don't really know exactly how my spirit came into this world and I'm not sure how it will go out, but "I'll ride the wave where it takes me".
id like to hear from people that believe in God, that had no religious upbringing. What was their journey that brought them to believe?
yes good talk.
Amy
New Orleans LA 7/4/95 reschedule 9/17/95
Chicago IL 1998, 10/9/00, 06/18/03, 05/16/06, 05/17/06
08/23/09, 08/24/09, Lolla 08/05/07
Champaign IL 4/23/03
Grand Rapids MI VFC 10/03/04
Grand Rapids MI 19May06
Noblesville IN 05/07/10 Cleveland OH 05/09/10
PJ 20 2011
Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Seattle WA 2013
St. Louis MO, Milwaukee WI 2014
Tampa FL, Chicago IL, Lexington KY 2016
Missoula MT 2018
Baptism for example has been brought up here, and questioned rightfully so.
Baptism is basically a public showing of one's faith. It's a fine & good thing to do if you choose to, but it's not a necessary requirement for salvation. Here is your proof.
During the crucifixion of Jesus Christ, if you look at it, there were three crosses there. Jesus in the center and two malfactors one on each side (criminals). Right towards the end of this whole crusifiction process, when time was running out for all of them from hanging on the crosses. One of the malfactors while hanging on his own cross, turned towards Jesus realized what was actually going on, and verbally repented to Jesus right then and there, asked for forgiveness and accepted Christ right there. Jesus said "From this Day Forward You Will Be in Paradise With Me. Right on the spot. You have to remember that Jesus is none other than God Himself in the flesh. So this is a really big deal!
Jesus did (NOT) not say "Hey Stop Everything, Hold On,,, This Man Has To Be Baptized Before he Can Be Saved.". There is your proof that you do not need to be baptized in order to be accepted by our Lord Jesus.
John 3:16. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that who so ever believe in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life.
Let's break this down a little shall we.
It says "WHO SO EVER". It does not say only the baptized, it does not say
Only Fat White Men,. It doesn't say only Plummers. It does not say only people who live in Ant Artica or only people north of the equator.
It says WHO SO EVER believe it in Him. That means you accept Him and repent, He will take You. Jesus says that once He forgives you for something He does not even want you to bring it up again He forgives you and wants you to move on.
If you stick to God's word you really can't go wrong, you really can't. But if you listen to traditions of men and all these churches have their own rules like divorcees have to sit in the back of the church. And
Oh yes yes my favorite,, they sing and sing and sing praise the lord, and but they can't wait to pass the
$-hat-$ around for donation$!! By the way Jesus said if you're gonna teach My Word, don't bring a begging bag. If they beg for money, I didn't send them."
You have a lot of one verse Charlie's those would be the ones who recite one Bible verse and then blow hot air for the next 45 minutes,, those you want to stay away from too. The only teachers of God's Word you should pay attention to if at all, are the ones who teach the Bible chapter by chapter and verse by verse. And keep MAN out of it as much as possible.
The OP is a good man, one who I think ponders much, is sometimes hard on himself, has immense love for his family. And is open-minded.
Guess in the end, I'm OK with being agnostic / not knowing (what IS the correct term?). I've had fun poked at me over the years for this from others firm in their beliefs in response to my...unfirm ones. Not a euphemism, by the way
I keep sensing there's some connection of energy, of wavelengths, whether living to living, living to not. I'm certainly open to that...almost welcome it...and doesn't seem non-sensical to me.. Who knows if that's some form of god? Not sure I'd want to use someone else's definition since I don't even know my own.
As mentioned earlier here or somewhere else - when I die, take whatever usable parts of me that will do good in some way, then either cremate my remains or put me in the ground, Nate Fisher style.
Or Willie Nelson style
Thanks for a great read this far, all.
What happens to someone who dies that doesn't believe in god/jesus?
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
On the other hand...
It's really fucking annoying and Sometimes infuriating that I am expected to be accepting of people's delusions simply because they are shared by many.
I'm not going to sit and listen to a Nazi say, "I believe Hitler, we are the superior race and we need to exterminate the inferior races".
I'm not going to put on my PC voice and say, "well, I disagree, but I respect your belief."
Bullshit, I'm telling the Nazi they are full of shit and they can fuck off unless they are hungry for knuckles.
Same goes for Goddies, minus the knuckles.
Yes, I did compare God to Hitler, and it is an apt comparison.
They both positioned themselves as the father of all, they both spent far too much time talking about superior races and chosen people, and they both personally orchestrated genocides.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
I wonder.......I accepted jesus into my heart when i was but a wee lad when my parents sent us to bible camp. But now I don't believe. does that cross me off the list of getting past the Gates when I die if it all turns out to be real, or does the original spiritual transaction still hold?
Cheers,
HFD
I'm okay with not knowing. There are so many things I don't know and won't before my time comes.
amy
New Orleans LA 7/4/95 reschedule 9/17/95
Chicago IL 1998, 10/9/00, 06/18/03, 05/16/06, 05/17/06
08/23/09, 08/24/09, Lolla 08/05/07
Champaign IL 4/23/03
Grand Rapids MI VFC 10/03/04
Grand Rapids MI 19May06
Noblesville IN 05/07/10 Cleveland OH 05/09/10
PJ 20 2011
Baltimore MD, Charlottesville VA, Seattle WA 2013
St. Louis MO, Milwaukee WI 2014
Tampa FL, Chicago IL, Lexington KY 2016
Missoula MT 2018
Here is the thing, He Loves You. He is not a ball of energy somewhere waiting to zap you. He understands the confusions of the world and how peoples beliefs can come and go. Jesus Himself is (long-suffering) that is to say he has lots of patience. And yes sir he has time for you.
Those that can be trusted can change their mind.
Cheers,
HFD
I'm not the judge. My answer to your question is, I think that you Hugh will do just fine.