when the band put out that release that they were excited to see all their old drummers, that was nothing more than window dressing. I mean, how many of those guys can afford the price tag attached to that? if you're going to go as far to as say that, you should have bought tickets for the other guys.
Now they have to pay for them too?
What about their SO's? Them too?
Should PJ pay $40K to placate their fans who have no idea what went on behind the scenes? What if Matt Chamberlain changes his mind? Now they’re up to $60K to have the 3 drummers & their SOs at this event to keep a few fans happy?
Come on.
no, they don't have to. they had zero obligation to say "we look forward to seeing them". I'm saying if you are going to do that, and make it seem like it's those former member(s) choice to not attend, when in reality it's because they aren't rich enough to attend, pony up. you don't invite people to a party you know they can't get to because of financials. that's in poor taste.
You're right, they had zero obligation, but fans were shitting canaries over 'Poor Dave A' getting snubbed. (how many threads popped up in the forum in the aftermath of the announcement?) People wanted Dave A to at the very least be acknowledged if he wasn't going to get inducted.
Maybe to placate the fans, (or maybe because they believe it) they release a statement saying they look forward to seeing all their past drummers there to celebrate with them, but that's not good enough for you, because literally, Poor Dave A.
First it was poor taste to not invite them. (There was a thread here imploring the band to 'do the right thing' because people here are presumptuous enough to think they know what the 'right thing' is)
Now it's poor taste to invite them but not pay for their ticket?
I have a feeling if they paid for his ticket, but didn't invite him to join them on stage you would complain about that too.
Yes / No?
What would make you happy? What would restore your faith in this band?
I agree in extremely bad taste to write the letter and not take care of the expense to ensure they can be there. They did NOT have to write the letter. The letter is like saying to a fan. We are having a drawing for a trip for a show to see in Alaska and you have won two tickets but in the fine print " airfare and hotel not included" Either do it, or don't. The band can afford it. Do the correct thing... They are all about speaking about their causes and morals and ethics. This is a perfect opportunity to place principles before personalities.
Say you worked for a company for 3 years, made some good contributions and then were fired. 23 years later your former company is given a prestigious award honoring their lifetime achievement, but said award organization doesn't recognize you but another who helped start the company and is also no longer with the company. The company later acknowledges your contributions and states they hope to see you at the event. Would you expect them to pay for your airfare and ticket to attend? I wouldn't I guess, but that's just me.
As mentioned earlier, perhaps Dave was expecting the band to pull a Jerry Garcia and insist he be inducted as well?
That's what I'm assuming. Dave A had his panties in a twist because he wasn't getting inducted (and for some reason decided to blame the band and yeah, I suppose wanted them to boycott or god knows what, hahaha), not because he wasn't invited to sit at a table. Either way, I think it's kind of hilarious that he refused to go.
did he refuse? I didn't read that.
he probably doesn't have the thousands of dollars to throw away.
He did indeed. I don't even remember why he said, but he decline the invite, Yeah, sure, it could be because he can't afford to fly to NYC I guess. I hope he's not that broke, but it's possible, what with the drugs and whatnot. I actually suspect that it's just because it's too awkward after all his complaining, but who knows. Of course, he could change his mind and show up. Hey, maybe he'll crash the speeches or something.
I have not seen that. There was a fake dave a that Said he wasn't going, but that was a fake dave a
Really? Well I don't know if what I read was real Dave A news or fake Dave A news, lol. Surely the guy had some reaction after all that public bitching.
The text messages some site reported on was fake.
Dave A has also shared the letter and news about it on his facebook page. With no bitching to my knowledge.
I don't see him being there or playing with the band. But he hasn't bitched.
And all this about not helping out with paying for the ticket etc – has it been stated that hasn't been offered from the band?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
As mentioned earlier, perhaps Dave was expecting the band to pull a Jerry Garcia and insist he be inducted as well?
That's what I'm assuming. Dave A had his panties in a twist because he wasn't getting inducted (and for some reason decided to blame the band and yeah, I suppose wanted them to boycott or god knows what, hahaha), not because he wasn't invited to sit at a table. Either way, I think it's kind of hilarious that he refused to go.
did he refuse? I didn't read that.
he probably doesn't have the thousands of dollars to throw away.
He did indeed. I don't even remember why he said, but he decline the invite, Yeah, sure, it could be because he can't afford to fly to NYC I guess. I hope he's not that broke, but it's possible, what with the drugs and whatnot. I actually suspect that it's just because it's too awkward after all his complaining, but who knows. Of course, he could change his mind and show up. Hey, maybe he'll crash the speeches or something.
I have not seen that. There was a fake dave a that Said he wasn't going, but that was a fake dave a
Really? Well I don't know if what I read was real Dave A news or fake Dave A news, lol. Surely the guy had some reaction after all that public bitching.
From what I've seen, no reaction other than posting Ed's letter on his Facebook
As mentioned earlier, perhaps Dave was expecting the band to pull a Jerry Garcia and insist he be inducted as well?
That's what I'm assuming. Dave A had his panties in a twist because he wasn't getting inducted (and for some reason decided to blame the band and yeah, I suppose wanted them to boycott or god knows what, hahaha), not because he wasn't invited to sit at a table. Either way, I think it's kind of hilarious that he refused to go.
did he refuse? I didn't read that.
he probably doesn't have the thousands of dollars to throw away.
He did indeed. I don't even remember why he said, but he decline the invite, Yeah, sure, it could be because he can't afford to fly to NYC I guess. I hope he's not that broke, but it's possible, what with the drugs and whatnot. I actually suspect that it's just because it's too awkward after all his complaining, but who knows. Of course, he could change his mind and show up. Hey, maybe he'll crash the speeches or something.
I have not seen that. There was a fake dave a that Said he wasn't going, but that was a fake dave a
Really? Well I don't know if what I read was real Dave A news or fake Dave A news, lol. Surely the guy had some reaction after all that public bitching.
From what I've seen, no reaction other than posting Ed's letter on his Facebook
I did notice that he apparently went on a facebook unfriending rampage the same day the letter was released (according to several of the people who noticed they got unfriended). No idea wtf that was about.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
As mentioned earlier, perhaps Dave was expecting the band to pull a Jerry Garcia and insist he be inducted as well?
That's what I'm assuming. Dave A had his panties in a twist because he wasn't getting inducted (and for some reason decided to blame the band and yeah, I suppose wanted them to boycott or god knows what, hahaha), not because he wasn't invited to sit at a table. Either way, I think it's kind of hilarious that he refused to go.
did he refuse? I didn't read that.
he probably doesn't have the thousands of dollars to throw away.
He did indeed. I don't even remember why he said, but he decline the invite, Yeah, sure, it could be because he can't afford to fly to NYC I guess. I hope he's not that broke, but it's possible, what with the drugs and whatnot. I actually suspect that it's just because it's too awkward after all his complaining, but who knows. Of course, he could change his mind and show up. Hey, maybe he'll crash the speeches or something.
I have not seen that. There was a fake dave a that Said he wasn't going, but that was a fake dave a
Really? Well I don't know if what I read was real Dave A news or fake Dave A news, lol. Surely the guy had some reaction after all that public bitching.
From what I've seen, no reaction other than posting Ed's letter on his Facebook
I did notice that he apparently went on a facebook unfriending rampage the same day the letter was released (according to several of the people who noticed they got unfriended). No idea wtf that was about.
The text messages could also have been real ofc, and declared false when Dave regretted them. Or whatever. Who knows. #fakenews #maga
I just want to see him drum the shit out of a pearl jam song again :(
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
As mentioned earlier, perhaps Dave was expecting the band to pull a Jerry Garcia and insist he be inducted as well?
That's what I'm assuming. Dave A had his panties in a twist because he wasn't getting inducted (and for some reason decided to blame the band and yeah, I suppose wanted them to boycott or god knows what, hahaha), not because he wasn't invited to sit at a table. Either way, I think it's kind of hilarious that he refused to go.
did he refuse? I didn't read that.
he probably doesn't have the thousands of dollars to throw away.
He did indeed. I don't even remember why he said, but he decline the invite, Yeah, sure, it could be because he can't afford to fly to NYC I guess. I hope he's not that broke, but it's possible, what with the drugs and whatnot. I actually suspect that it's just because it's too awkward after all his complaining, but who knows. Of course, he could change his mind and show up. Hey, maybe he'll crash the speeches or something.
I have not seen that. There was a fake dave a that Said he wasn't going, but that was a fake dave a
Really? Well I don't know if what I read was real Dave A news or fake Dave A news, lol. Surely the guy had some reaction after all that public bitching.
From what I've seen, no reaction other than posting Ed's letter on his Facebook
I did notice that he apparently went on a facebook unfriending rampage the same day the letter was released (according to several of the people who noticed they got unfriended). No idea wtf that was about.
The text messages could also have been real ofc, and declared false when Dave regretted them. Or whatever. Who knows. #fakenews #maga
I just want to see him drum the shit out of a pearl jam song again :(
That would be interesting... I wonder if he's still got the skills?? Does he even still play? I know almost nothing about the guy, especially not what he's done musically since leaving PJ. I assume he's still a dummer in some capacity, but...
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
I agree in extremely bad taste to write the letter and not take care of the expense to ensure they can be there. They did NOT have to write the letter. The letter is like saying to a fan. We are having a drawing for a trip for a show to see in Alaska and you have won two tickets but in the fine print " airfare and hotel not included" Either do it, or don't. The band can afford it. Do the correct thing... They are all about speaking about their causes and morals and ethics. This is a perfect opportunity to place principles before personalities.
Say you worked for a company for 3 years, made some good contributions and then were fired. 23 years later your former company is given a prestigious award honoring their lifetime achievement, but said award organization doesn't recognize you but another who helped start the company and is also no longer with the company. The company later acknowledges your contributions and states they hope to see you at the event. Would you expect them to pay for your airfare and ticket to attend? I wouldn't I guess, but that's just me.
Great point. Dave A. was a beast back in the day, but I think if he was meant to stay in Pearl Jam, he would have stayed in Pearl Jam right? Nuff said. Maybe is they didn't put Krusen in, this would've all been a moot point.
Really the RRHOF should change some rules. They manage to rub people the wrong way every year with this issue. Maybe they should consider just communicating with the nominees, and asking the current members who they'd like to include, and end it there. To me, it seems most appropriate for the bands to be deciding who deserves to be acknowledged and who they aren't comfortable with - they are really the only ones with the appropriate knowledge in this context, and they are the ones who should be making the decision to piss someone off or not, lol.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Really the RRHOF should change some rules. They manage to rub people the wrong way every year with this issue. Maybe they should consider just communicating with the nominees, and asking the current members who they'd like to include, and end it there. To me, it seems most appropriate for the bands to be deciding who deserves to be acknowledged and who they aren't comfortable with - they are really the only ones with the appropriate knowledge in this context, and they are the ones who should be making the decision to piss someone off or not, lol.
Yes.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
As mentioned earlier, perhaps Dave was expecting the band to pull a Jerry Garcia and insist he be inducted as well?
That's what I'm assuming. Dave A had his panties in a twist because he wasn't getting inducted (and for some reason decided to blame the band and yeah, I suppose wanted them to boycott or god knows what, hahaha), not because he wasn't invited to sit at a table. Either way, I think it's kind of hilarious that he refused to go.
did he refuse? I didn't read that.
he probably doesn't have the thousands of dollars to throw away.
He did indeed. I don't even remember why he said, but he decline the invite, Yeah, sure, it could be because he can't afford to fly to NYC I guess. I hope he's not that broke, but it's possible, what with the drugs and whatnot. I actually suspect that it's just because it's too awkward after all his complaining, but who knows. Of course, he could change his mind and show up. Hey, maybe he'll crash the speeches or something.
I have not seen that. There was a fake dave a that Said he wasn't going, but that was a fake dave a
Really? Well I don't know if what I read was real Dave A news or fake Dave A news, lol. Surely the guy had some reaction after all that public bitching.
From what I've seen, no reaction other than posting Ed's letter on his Facebook
I did notice that he apparently went on a facebook unfriending rampage the same day the letter was released (according to several of the people who noticed they got unfriended). No idea wtf that was about.
The text messages could also have been real ofc, and declared false when Dave regretted them. Or whatever. Who knows. #fakenews #maga
I just want to see him drum the shit out of a pearl jam song again :(
That would be interesting... I wonder if he's still got the skills?? Does he even still play? I know almost nothing about the guy, especially not what he's done musically since leaving PJ. I assume he's still a dummer in some capacity, but...
All I know is that he played on some GnR demos with Axl in the late 90s.
He still plays drums on stuff. Local stuff I bet.
He was suppose to tour Europe with some band like in 2009-2010 but the tour (or atleast the swedish date) was cancelled.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
As mentioned earlier, perhaps Dave was expecting the band to pull a Jerry Garcia and insist he be inducted as well?
That's what I'm assuming. Dave A had his panties in a twist because he wasn't getting inducted (and for some reason decided to blame the band and yeah, I suppose wanted them to boycott or god knows what, hahaha), not because he wasn't invited to sit at a table. Either way, I think it's kind of hilarious that he refused to go.
did he refuse? I didn't read that.
he probably doesn't have the thousands of dollars to throw away.
He did indeed. I don't even remember why he said, but he decline the invite, Yeah, sure, it could be because he can't afford to fly to NYC I guess. I hope he's not that broke, but it's possible, what with the drugs and whatnot. I actually suspect that it's just because it's too awkward after all his complaining, but who knows. Of course, he could change his mind and show up. Hey, maybe he'll crash the speeches or something.
I have not seen that. There was a fake dave a that Said he wasn't going, but that was a fake dave a
Really? Well I don't know if what I read was real Dave A news or fake Dave A news, lol. Surely the guy had some reaction after all that public bitching.
From what I've seen, no reaction other than posting Ed's letter on his Facebook
I did notice that he apparently went on a facebook unfriending rampage the same day the letter was released (according to several of the people who noticed they got unfriended). No idea wtf that was about.
The text messages could also have been real ofc, and declared false when Dave regretted them. Or whatever. Who knows. #fakenews #maga
I just want to see him drum the shit out of a pearl jam song again :(
That would be interesting... I wonder if he's still got the skills?? Does he even still play? I know almost nothing about the guy, especially not what he's done musically since leaving PJ. I assume he's still a dummer in some capacity, but...
All I know is that he played on some GnR demos with Axl in the late 90s.
He still plays drums on stuff. Local stuff I bet.
He was suppose to tour Europe with some band like in 2009-2010 but the tour (or atleast the swedish date) was cancelled.
Funny that you mention he drummed with Axl. Seems he would have been better suited to be in a band like GNR or Scorpions based on what you hear about his love of the rock star life.
It's a hopeless situation...
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,419
Really the RRHOF should change some rules. They manage to rub people the wrong way every year with this issue. Maybe they should consider just communicating with the nominees, and asking the current members who they'd like to include, and end it there. To me, it seems most appropriate for the bands to be deciding who deserves to be acknowledged and who they aren't comfortable with - they are really the only ones with the appropriate knowledge in this context, and they are the ones who should be making the decision to piss someone off or not, lol.
But what do you do with a band like Journey? Their current lead singer is not being inducted... should he be making a decision about Steve Perry being inducted? Seems like a conflict of interest.
Entrants should probably be left up to the Hall. Most of the time they get it right. I know in many sports there are sentimental fan favorites who don't get into the Hall of Fame. They're popular with the fans, but their career accomplishments don't always measure up to Hall of Fame standards.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
Really the RRHOF should change some rules. They manage to rub people the wrong way every year with this issue. Maybe they should consider just communicating with the nominees, and asking the current members who they'd like to include, and end it there. To me, it seems most appropriate for the bands to be deciding who deserves to be acknowledged and who they aren't comfortable with - they are really the only ones with the appropriate knowledge in this context, and they are the ones who should be making the decision to piss someone off or not, lol.
But what do you do with a band like Journey? Their current lead singer is not being inducted... should he be making a decision about Steve Perry being inducted? Seems like a conflict of interest.
Entrants should probably be left up to the Hall. Most of the time they get it right. I know in many sports there are sentimental fan favorites who don't get into the Hall of Fame. They're popular with the fans, but their career accomplishments don't always measure up to Hall of Fame standards.
Who ever controls the active band should make the call. Just like they make the call to record a new album or tour.
The RnR HoF doesn't need to induct anything beyond THE BAND/ARTIST. Then whoever they want to bring up on stage and whatever is up to the band/artist.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Really the RRHOF should change some rules. They manage to rub people the wrong way every year with this issue. Maybe they should consider just communicating with the nominees, and asking the current members who they'd like to include, and end it there. To me, it seems most appropriate for the bands to be deciding who deserves to be acknowledged and who they aren't comfortable with - they are really the only ones with the appropriate knowledge in this context, and they are the ones who should be making the decision to piss someone off or not, lol.
But what do you do with a band like Journey? Their current lead singer is not being inducted... should he be making a decision about Steve Perry being inducted? Seems like a conflict of interest.
Entrants should probably be left up to the Hall. Most of the time they get it right. I know in many sports there are sentimental fan favorites who don't get into the Hall of Fame. They're popular with the fans, but their career accomplishments don't always measure up to Hall of Fame standards.
Who ever controls the active band should make the call. Just like they make the call to record a new album or tour.
The RnR HoF doesn't need to induct anything beyond THE BAND/ARTIST. Then whoever they want to bring up on stage and whatever is up to the band/artist.
some bands have like 80 members over the years
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on2legs
Standing in the Jersey rain… Posts: 14,419
Really the RRHOF should change some rules. They manage to rub people the wrong way every year with this issue. Maybe they should consider just communicating with the nominees, and asking the current members who they'd like to include, and end it there. To me, it seems most appropriate for the bands to be deciding who deserves to be acknowledged and who they aren't comfortable with - they are really the only ones with the appropriate knowledge in this context, and they are the ones who should be making the decision to piss someone off or not, lol.
But what do you do with a band like Journey? Their current lead singer is not being inducted... should he be making a decision about Steve Perry being inducted? Seems like a conflict of interest.
Entrants should probably be left up to the Hall. Most of the time they get it right. I know in many sports there are sentimental fan favorites who don't get into the Hall of Fame. They're popular with the fans, but their career accomplishments don't always measure up to Hall of Fame standards.
Who ever controls the active band should make the call. Just like they make the call to record a new album or tour.
The RnR HoF doesn't need to induct anything beyond THE BAND/ARTIST. Then whoever they want to bring up on stage and whatever is up to the band/artist.
But that's not how a hall of fame works. The Hall of fame makes the selections. The inmates don't run the asylum.
1996: Randall's Island 2 1998: East Rutherford | MSG 1 & 2 2000: Cincinnati | Columbus | Jones Beach 1, 2, & 3 | Boston 1 | Camden 1 & 2 2003: Philadelphia | Uniondale | MSG 1 & 2 | Holmdel 2005: Atlantic City 1 2006: Camden 1 | East Rutherford 1 & 2 2008: Camden 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Newark (EV) 2009: Philadelphia 1, 2 & 4 2010: Newark | MSG 1 & 2 2011: Toronto 1 2013: Wrigley Field | Brooklyn 2 | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore 2015: Central Park 2016: Philadelphia 1 & 2 | MSG 1 & 2 | Fenway Park 2 | MSG (TOTD) 2017: Brooklyn (RnR HOF) 2020: MSG | Asbury Park2021: Asbury Park 2022: MSG | Camden | Nashville 2024: MSG 1 & 2 (#50) | Philadelphia 1 & 2 | Baltimore
My point is, nobody told them they had to write this... "Dave Krusen, Matt Chamberlain, Dave Abbruzzese and Jack Irons are each individually great players who gave their all to the early recordings and live gigs. Looking forward to seeing them and all the other musicians on the bill."
Once you have done this and not done it privately, you are subject to scrutiny if you can't accommodate their attendance.
Why bother writing the letter??? That's all... I am not implying they have the power to choose who gets inducted... They certainly get to choose their causes though.. They choose a new cause every month..
The way I look at it is those drummers represent musical contributions not personalities.. The drummers being there is a tribute to their contribution as stated in the letter. Not how they may feel about them as people today.
1994 - Pensacola, Miami, Atlanta - 1995 - Milwaukee, Milwaukee, New Orleans (Tickets to Phoenix, Las Cruces, Austin, Shows Canceled) - 1996 - Randalls Island, Randalls Island, Charlotte, N.Charleston, Ft. Lauderdale - 1997 - Oakland-1998 - Alpine Valley, Alpine Valley, Chicago, West Palm Beach, West Palm Beach - 2000 - West Palm Beach, West Palm Beach, Phoenix, Las Vegas (10th Anniversary Show) - 2003 - West Palm Beach, Tampa, Atlanta, Nashville, Camden, Camden, MSG, MSG - 2004 - Kissimmee, Fl - 2006 - Irving Plaza, Albany, Hartford, Denver, Denver, Las Vegas - 2007 - Ed w/ Jack Irons & Flea in LA - 2008 - West Palm Beach, Tampa, Columbia, Camden, Camden, Washington D.C. - 2009 - L.A., San Diego, Philly Spectrum Night 3 & 4 - 2010 - New Orleans, Columbus, Indianapolis, Hartford, MSG, MSG - 2011 - Ed - Hartford, Providence, Boston - 2011 - Alpine Valley X2 (PJ20), Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver - 2012 - Ed - Ft. Lauderdale x2, - 2012 / 2014 Beautiful Daughter "Emily" born 11/07/12. On the bench for 3 years! She's really cute though! - 2015 - Mexico City - 2016 - Ft. Laud, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Greenville, Raleigh, Columbia, Philly 1 & 2, Toronto 1 & 2, Fenway 1 & 2, Wrigley Night 1 & 2 - 2016 - MSG, San Francisco, San Francisco, Seattle, Seattle (TOTD) - 2018 - Seattle 1 & 2, Fenway 1 & 2
My point is, nobody told them they had to write this... "Dave Krusen, Matt Chamberlain, Dave Abbruzzese and Jack Irons are each individually great players who gave their all to the early recordings and live gigs. Looking forward to seeing them and all the other musicians on the bill."
Once you have done this and not done it privately, you are subject to scrutiny if you can't accommodate their attendance.
Why bother writing the letter??? That's all... I am not implying they have the power to choose who gets inducted... They certainly get to choose their causes though.. They choose a new cause every month..
The way I look at it is those drummers represent musical contributions not personalities.. The drummers being there is a tribute to their contribution as stated in the letter. Not how they may feel about them as people today.
We have no way of knowing how they feel about any of these drummers (other than Matt Cameron, I assume they like him) today. And it is not up to Pearl Jam to accommodate anyone's attendance. They aren't throwing the party. They put it out there they would like to see all four drummers attend, but they are not responsible for getting all four drummers to attend.
My point is, nobody told them they had to write this... "Dave Krusen, Matt Chamberlain, Dave Abbruzzese and Jack Irons are each individually great players who gave their all to the early recordings and live gigs. Looking forward to seeing them and all the other musicians on the bill."
Once you have done this and not done it privately, you are subject to scrutiny if you can't accommodate their attendance.
Why bother writing the letter??? That's all... I am not implying they have the power to choose who gets inducted... They certainly get to choose their causes though.. They choose a new cause every month..
The way I look at it is those drummers represent musical contributions not personalities.. The drummers being there is a tribute to their contribution as stated in the letter. Not how they may feel about them as people today.
We have no way of knowing how they feel about any of these drummers (other than Matt Cameron, I assume they like him) today. And it is not up to Pearl Jam to accommodate anyone's attendance. They aren't throwing the party. They put it out there they would like to see all four drummers attend, but they are not responsible for getting all four drummers to attend.
I have no idea the full story of what is really going on behind the scenes and the particulars, and I am going on partial information and blah blah... but what it looks like from my perspective is..
If these drummers can't afford a 10K banquet ticket and seems that is the situation here.. It is like saying.. Hey I would love to see ya, but you are not getting inducted, can't afford a ticket. I guess I won't see you then.. Maybe another time.. What I meant is that.. I am going to put out this press release that makes us seem like we are nice guys, when we really hadn't put any thought into it, but if it is about Global Citizens or Emissions, or Womens rights or 50 other causes we will gladly give a lot of money, but to these guys who helped craft our career's we can't help find them a chair.. hmmm. Of course they don't have to do anything.. They are not obligated to do anything...
Once again...The drummers being there is a tribute to their contribution as stated in the letter. Not how they may feel about them as people today
1994 - Pensacola, Miami, Atlanta - 1995 - Milwaukee, Milwaukee, New Orleans (Tickets to Phoenix, Las Cruces, Austin, Shows Canceled) - 1996 - Randalls Island, Randalls Island, Charlotte, N.Charleston, Ft. Lauderdale - 1997 - Oakland-1998 - Alpine Valley, Alpine Valley, Chicago, West Palm Beach, West Palm Beach - 2000 - West Palm Beach, West Palm Beach, Phoenix, Las Vegas (10th Anniversary Show) - 2003 - West Palm Beach, Tampa, Atlanta, Nashville, Camden, Camden, MSG, MSG - 2004 - Kissimmee, Fl - 2006 - Irving Plaza, Albany, Hartford, Denver, Denver, Las Vegas - 2007 - Ed w/ Jack Irons & Flea in LA - 2008 - West Palm Beach, Tampa, Columbia, Camden, Camden, Washington D.C. - 2009 - L.A., San Diego, Philly Spectrum Night 3 & 4 - 2010 - New Orleans, Columbus, Indianapolis, Hartford, MSG, MSG - 2011 - Ed - Hartford, Providence, Boston - 2011 - Alpine Valley X2 (PJ20), Calgary, Edmonton, Vancouver - 2012 - Ed - Ft. Lauderdale x2, - 2012 / 2014 Beautiful Daughter "Emily" born 11/07/12. On the bench for 3 years! She's really cute though! - 2015 - Mexico City - 2016 - Ft. Laud, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Greenville, Raleigh, Columbia, Philly 1 & 2, Toronto 1 & 2, Fenway 1 & 2, Wrigley Night 1 & 2 - 2016 - MSG, San Francisco, San Francisco, Seattle, Seattle (TOTD) - 2018 - Seattle 1 & 2, Fenway 1 & 2
My point is, nobody told them they had to write this... "Dave Krusen, Matt Chamberlain, Dave Abbruzzese and Jack Irons are each individually great players who gave their all to the early recordings and live gigs. Looking forward to seeing them and all the other musicians on the bill."
Once you have done this and not done it privately, you are subject to scrutiny if you can't accommodate their attendance.
Why bother writing the letter??? That's all... I am not implying they have the power to choose who gets inducted... They certainly get to choose their causes though.. They choose a new cause every month..
The way I look at it is those drummers represent musical contributions not personalities.. The drummers being there is a tribute to their contribution as stated in the letter. Not how they may feel about them as people today.
We have no way of knowing how they feel about any of these drummers (other than Matt Cameron, I assume they like him) today. And it is not up to Pearl Jam to accommodate anyone's attendance. They aren't throwing the party. They put it out there they would like to see all four drummers attend, but they are not responsible for getting all four drummers to attend.
I have no idea the full story of what is really going on behind the scenes and the particulars, and I am going on partial information and blah blah... but what it looks like from my perspective is..
If these drummers can't afford a 10K banquet ticket and seems that is the situation here.. It is like saying.. Hey I would love to see ya, but you are not getting inducted, can't afford a ticket. I guess I won't see you then.. Maybe another time.. What I meant is that.. I am going to put out this press release that makes us seem like we are nice guys, when we really hadn't put any thought into it, but if it is about Global Citizens or Emissions, or Womens rights or 50 other causes we will gladly give a lot of money, but to these guys who helped craft our career's we can't help find them a chair.. hmmm. Of course they don't have to do anything.. They are not obligated to do anything...
Once again...The drummers being there is a tribute to their contribution as stated in the letter. Not how they may feel about them as people today
Honest question:
If you think so little of this band to assume the worst of them like this, (ESPECIALLY in the glaring absence of facts which you openly admit you don't have), then do you pay dues to be in their fanclub?
Why does ANYONE fucking care?? Jesus Christ. The speculation, overreactions, and drama created around here over simple statements befuddles me. 6 pages of "why didn't they/why don't they/they should" etc. Holy fuck, there's more important shit going on in the world than Dave god damn A. It doesn't change a damn one of our lives if he goes to the fuckin thing or not.
Why does ANYONE fucking care?? Jesus Christ. The speculation, overreactions, and drama created around here over simple statements befuddles me. 6 pages of "why didn't they/why don't they/they should" etc. Holy fuck, there's more important shit going on in the world than Dave god damn A. It doesn't change a damn one of our lives if he goes to the fuckin thing or not.
Yes it does.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Why does ANYONE fucking care?? Jesus Christ. The speculation, overreactions, and drama created around here over simple statements befuddles me. 6 pages of "why didn't they/why don't they/they should" etc. Holy fuck, there's more important shit going on in the world than Dave god damn A. It doesn't change a damn one of our lives if he goes to the fuckin thing or not.
Really the RRHOF should change some rules. They manage to rub people the wrong way every year with this issue. Maybe they should consider just communicating with the nominees, and asking the current members who they'd like to include, and end it there. To me, it seems most appropriate for the bands to be deciding who deserves to be acknowledged and who they aren't comfortable with - they are really the only ones with the appropriate knowledge in this context, and they are the ones who should be making the decision to piss someone off or not, lol.
But what do you do with a band like Journey? Their current lead singer is not being inducted... should he be making a decision about Steve Perry being inducted? Seems like a conflict of interest.
Entrants should probably be left up to the Hall. Most of the time they get it right. I know in many sports there are sentimental fan favorites who don't get into the Hall of Fame. They're popular with the fans, but their career accomplishments don't always measure up to Hall of Fame standards.
Who ever controls the active band should make the call. Just like they make the call to record a new album or tour.
The RnR HoF doesn't need to induct anything beyond THE BAND/ARTIST. Then whoever they want to bring up on stage and whatever is up to the band/artist.
some bands have like 80 members over the years
That's a lot. What bands have had 80 members over time unless you count stand in and back up musicians, who wouldn't count? ... I seriously doubt a band like that would end up inviting 80 people to be inducted with them in any case. But if they did do that, why not? The only way it puts out the RRHOF is that they need to have a longer list in the little display for the band in the hall, and provide enough seats for those who manage to show up.
With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
Why does ANYONE fucking care?? Jesus Christ. The speculation, overreactions, and drama created around here over simple statements befuddles me. 6 pages of "why didn't they/why don't they/they should" etc. Holy fuck, there's more important shit going on in the world than Dave god damn A. It doesn't change a damn one of our lives if he goes to the fuckin thing or not.
I agree totally. way more important shit than Dave A. that's why I love these boards...... everything is so overblown.
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Really the RRHOF should change some rules. They manage to rub people the wrong way every year with this issue. Maybe they should consider just communicating with the nominees, and asking the current members who they'd like to include, and end it there. To me, it seems most appropriate for the bands to be deciding who deserves to be acknowledged and who they aren't comfortable with - they are really the only ones with the appropriate knowledge in this context, and they are the ones who should be making the decision to piss someone off or not, lol.
But what do you do with a band like Journey? Their current lead singer is not being inducted... should he be making a decision about Steve Perry being inducted? Seems like a conflict of interest.
Entrants should probably be left up to the Hall. Most of the time they get it right. I know in many sports there are sentimental fan favorites who don't get into the Hall of Fame. They're popular with the fans, but their career accomplishments don't always measure up to Hall of Fame standards.
Who ever controls the active band should make the call. Just like they make the call to record a new album or tour.
The RnR HoF doesn't need to induct anything beyond THE BAND/ARTIST. Then whoever they want to bring up on stage and whatever is up to the band/artist.
some bands have like 80 members over the years
That's a lot. What bands have had 80 members over time unless you count stand in and back up musicians, who wouldn't count? ... I seriously doubt a band like that would end up inviting 80 people to be inducted with them in any case. But if they did do that, why not? The only way it puts out the RRHOF is that they need to have a longer list in the little display for the band in the hall, and provide enough seats for those who manage to show up.
I was exaggerating. But I'm sure Chicago comes close
Why does ANYONE fucking care?? Jesus Christ. The speculation, overreactions, and drama created around here over simple statements befuddles me. 6 pages of "why didn't they/why don't they/they should" etc. Holy fuck, there's more important shit going on in the world than Dave god damn A. It doesn't change a damn one of our lives if he goes to the fuckin thing or not.
I agree totally. way more important shit than Dave A. that's why I love these boards...... everything is so overblown.
If nothing else, it certainly provides entertainment!
when the band put out that release that they were excited to see all their old drummers, that was nothing more than window dressing. I mean, how many of those guys can afford the price tag attached to that? if you're going to go as far to as say that, you should have bought tickets for the other guys.
Now they have to pay for them too?
What about their SO's? Them too?
Should PJ pay $40K to placate their fans who have no idea what went on behind the scenes? What if Matt Chamberlain changes his mind? Now they’re up to $60K to have the 3 drummers & their SOs at this event to keep a few fans happy?
Come on.
no, they don't have to. they had zero obligation to say "we look forward to seeing them". I'm saying if you are going to do that, and make it seem like it's those former member(s) choice to not attend, when in reality it's because they aren't rich enough to attend, pony up. you don't invite people to a party you know they can't get to because of financials. that's in poor taste.
You're right, they had zero obligation, but fans were shitting canaries over 'Poor Dave A' getting snubbed. (how many threads popped up in the forum in the aftermath of the announcement?) People wanted Dave A to at the very least be acknowledged if he wasn't going to get inducted.
Maybe to placate the fans, (or maybe because they believe it) they release a statement saying they look forward to seeing all their past drummers there to celebrate with them, but that's not good enough for you, because literally, Poor Dave A.
First it was poor taste to not invite them. (There was a thread here imploring the band to 'do the right thing' because people here are presumptuous enough to think they know what the 'right thing' is)
Now it's poor taste to invite them but not pay for their ticket?
I have a feeling if they paid for his ticket, but didn't invite him to join them on stage you would complain about that too.
Yes / No?
What would make you happy? What would restore your faith in this band?
oh jesus, i have not lost my faith in this band. quit being so dramatic. i was never in the 'poor dave a' camp. i think the hall is a joke, and who the fuck knows why the choose who they choose. nor do i care. i chalk their decision on who to induct as simply 'odd'.
all i said was why 'invite' them knowing they can't attend? when i invite someone to attend my party, i don't make them pay to get in. pj are multi millionaires. i think they can spare the change. but again, i didn't think they had any obligation to pay for them until they invited them.
and you are way off. if they invited him and didn't have him play i couldn't give a fuck. i think it would be awesome to have each drummer do a song, but it won't ruin my day. i thought nirvana should have had chad play a tune too. i think he deserved to be inducted as much if not more than dave grohl (chad wrote the drum parts for nevermind, and dave merely played them). but in the end, it matters not to me.
Why does ANYONE fucking care?? Jesus Christ. The speculation, overreactions, and drama created around here over simple statements befuddles me. 6 pages of "why didn't they/why don't they/they should" etc. Holy fuck, there's more important shit going on in the world than Dave god damn A. It doesn't change a damn one of our lives if he goes to the fuckin thing or not.
no, it doesn't. it's just a conversation dude. chill the fuck out. you have probably 500 conversations a day with people that, in the end, make no difference in your life or anyone else's. just because it's on the internet doesn't mean you have to get all outraged about it.
Comments
Dave A has also shared the letter and news about it on his facebook page. With no bitching to my knowledge.
I don't see him being there or playing with the band. But he hasn't bitched.
And all this about not helping out with paying for the ticket etc – has it been stated that hasn't been offered from the band?
I just want to see him drum the shit out of a pearl jam song again :(
He still plays drums on stuff. Local stuff I bet.
He was suppose to tour Europe with some band like in 2009-2010 but the tour (or atleast the swedish date) was cancelled.
Entrants should probably be left up to the Hall. Most of the time they get it right. I know in many sports there are sentimental fan favorites who don't get into the Hall of Fame. They're popular with the fans, but their career accomplishments don't always measure up to Hall of Fame standards.
The RnR HoF doesn't need to induct anything beyond THE BAND/ARTIST. Then whoever they want to bring up on stage and whatever is up to the band/artist.
Once you have done this and not done it privately, you are subject to scrutiny if you can't accommodate their attendance.
Why bother writing the letter??? That's all... I am not implying they have the power to choose who gets inducted... They certainly get to choose their causes though.. They choose a new cause every month..
The way I look at it is those drummers represent musical contributions not personalities.. The drummers being there is a tribute to their contribution as stated in the letter. Not how they may feel about them as people today.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
If these drummers can't afford a 10K banquet ticket and seems that is the situation here.. It is like saying.. Hey I would love to see ya, but you are not getting inducted, can't afford a ticket. I guess I won't see you then.. Maybe another time.. What I meant is that.. I am going to put out this press release that makes us seem like we are nice guys, when we really hadn't put any thought into it, but if it is about Global Citizens or Emissions, or Womens rights or 50 other causes we will gladly give a lot of money, but to these guys who helped craft our career's we can't help find them a chair.. hmmm. Of course they don't have to do anything.. They are not obligated to do anything...
Once again...The drummers being there is a tribute to their contribution as stated in the letter. Not how they may feel about them as people today
If you think so little of this band to assume the worst of them like this, (ESPECIALLY in the glaring absence of facts which you openly admit you don't have), then do you pay dues to be in their fanclub?
I agree totally.
way more important shit than Dave A.
that's why I love these boards...... everything is so overblown.
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2000- Atlanta, GA: New Orleans, LA: Memphis, TN: Nashville, TN
2003- Raleigh, NC: Charlotte, NC: Atlanta, GA
2004- Asheville, NC (hometown show)
2006- Cincinnati, OH
2008- Columbia, SC
2009- Chicago, IL x 2 / Ed Vedder- Atlanta, GA x 2
2010- Bristow, VA
2011- Alpine Valley, WI (PJ20) x 2 / Ed Vedder- Chicago, IL
2012- Atlanta, GA
2013- Charlotte, NC
2014- Cincinnati, OH
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all i said was why 'invite' them knowing they can't attend? when i invite someone to attend my party, i don't make them pay to get in. pj are multi millionaires. i think they can spare the change. but again, i didn't think they had any obligation to pay for them until they invited them.
and you are way off. if they invited him and didn't have him play i couldn't give a fuck. i think it would be awesome to have each drummer do a song, but it won't ruin my day. i thought nirvana should have had chad play a tune too. i think he deserved to be inducted as much if not more than dave grohl (chad wrote the drum parts for nevermind, and dave merely played them). but in the end, it matters not to me.
Cheers,
HFD
Cheers,
HFD