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Did Brendan O'Brien destroy Pearl Jam's Analog Master tapes?

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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,908
    edited March 2017
    I think the Vaults are the best sounding vinyl PJ has put out. I also think PJ wax doesn't sound any better or worse than most vinyl that's put out today (that aren't $50 audiophile pressings). as I've upgraded systems over the years, I've found that most vinyl made after 1990 sounds pretty meh. Something to be said about avoiding audiophilia.
    Post edited by Tim Simmons on
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    DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,412
    edited March 2017
    Really? I do my homework, but I feel like most new and reissue stuff I purchase is consistently better than PJ's output in every way, except maybe packaging.
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,908
    Eh, maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but I find myself continually disappointed by new pressings. And when you hear a great pressing like a Music Matters Jazz pressing or Analogue recordings reissue, its night and day. I guess what I should have said most new pressings are passable as opposed to sounding great and I just don't think PJ wax is particularly terrible. I guess the bad rap probably has more to do with the general mastering of the last 3 studio LPs. I guess Ten and Vitalogy reissues weren't great either. But original pressings and other newer releases (including No Code and Yield reissues) have been standard.
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,908
    I will concede their stuff isn't audiophile level. But most records aren't.
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    buck502000buck502000 Birthplace of GIBSON guitar Posts: 8,951
    I just sucks to think PJ couldn't do MOFI stuff even if they wanted to. Weezer did.....
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,908
    I don't think they need to do mofi, just get the non-destroyed analog tapes to Chris Bellman to master/cut, and press them on 180g at QRP/Pallas/RTI and charge $50.
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    DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,412
    So you've got confirmation that Obrien did actually trash the masters? And that when doing so skipped making a high resolution digital copy?
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,908
    I was making a joke to bring the thread full circle.
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    DewieCoxDewieCox Posts: 11,412
    I was responding to Buck.

    Hell, just putting a QRP or RTI sticker on the gatefold would go a long way. Confirmation bias is real!!
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    buck502000buck502000 Birthplace of GIBSON guitar Posts: 8,951

    I don't think they need to do mofi, just get the non-destroyed analog tapes to Chris Bellman to master/cut, and press them on 180g at QRP/Pallas/RTI and charge $50.

    I'd be ok with that
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    mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,378

    I just sucks to think PJ couldn't do MOFI stuff even if they wanted to. Weezer did.....

    That would be awesome
    I LOVE MUSIC.
    www.cluthelee.com
    www.cluthe.com
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    my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    edited March 2017

    Eh, maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but I find myself continually disappointed by new pressings. And when you hear a great pressing like a Music Matters Jazz pressing or Analogue recordings reissue, its night and day. I guess what I should have said most new pressings are passable as opposed to sounding great and I just don't think PJ wax is particularly terrible. I guess the bad rap probably has more to do with the general mastering of the last 3 studio LPs. I guess Ten and Vitalogy reissues weren't great either. But original pressings and other newer releases (including No Code and Yield reissues) have been standard.

    That's because most new vinyl is not being recorded or mastered for vinyl... most new LP's are simply cd's pressed to wax... that's why pre 1990 stuff sounds so good because every album was recorded and produced for vinyl records... thats also why older records are much shorter than modern albums... when a new record is actually recorded and mastered for vinyl it sounds amazing... Ben & Ellen Harper put out an album a year or two ago... it was mastered properly for vinyl right from analog tapes and when I play it, it sounds like they are right in my living room. Amazing. I have an REM record, original pressing from the 1980's in great condition, it sounds absolutely amazing

    Most new artists are just slapping the digital files on some wax and kids think they are cool because they are buying vinyl... the industry is tricking them and ripping them off... that's why you can't tell or they don't sound good

    For vinyl the recording and production/mastering of the album is extremely important

    That's what I understand as a novice anyway, if you're going to buy vinyl make sure it was designed to actually be applied to the vinyl format, otherwise save your money and just get the MP3 or cd
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    my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    And I agree the PJ vaults are the best sounding vinyl in their catalog
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,908
    my2hands said:

    Eh, maybe I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but I find myself continually disappointed by new pressings. And when you hear a great pressing like a Music Matters Jazz pressing or Analogue recordings reissue, its night and day. I guess what I should have said most new pressings are passable as opposed to sounding great and I just don't think PJ wax is particularly terrible. I guess the bad rap probably has more to do with the general mastering of the last 3 studio LPs. I guess Ten and Vitalogy reissues weren't great either. But original pressings and other newer releases (including No Code and Yield reissues) have been standard.

    That's because most new vinyl is not being recorded or mastered for vinyl... most new LP's are simply cd's pressed to wax... that's why pre 1990 stuff sounds so good because every album was recorded and produced for vinyl records... thats also why older records are much shorter than modern albums... when a new record is actually recorded and mastered for vinyl it sounds amazing... Ben & Ellen Harper put out an album a year or two ago... it was mastered properly for vinyl right from analog tapes and when I play it, it sounds like they are right in my living room. Amazing. I have an REM record, original pressing from the 1980's in great condition, it sounds absolutely amazing

    Most new artists are just slapping the digital files on some wax and kids think they are cool because they are buying vinyl... the industry is tricking them and ripping them off... that's why you can't tell or they don't sound good

    For vinyl the recording and production/mastering of the album is extremely important

    That's what I understand as a novice anyway, if you're going to buy vinyl make sure it was designed to actually be applied to the vinyl format, otherwise save your money and just get the MP3 or cd

    Yeah, that's more or less spot on. I don't think most records are cd to wax though. I'm pretty sure it's the digital master that's used for the cd. Sometimes it's a red book cd, but I'd wager more often than not, it's a digital file, sometimes of a high resolution. But I'd posit it has less to do with the source of the music, and more to do with how it's cut. With the increased demand for vinyl, the best master era and cutters only have so much time, so more novice cutters, get work. You couple that with how many fewer people who cut back in the day are around cutting/training new people to master, you get sub par vinyl.
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    ZodZod Posts: 10,103



    Yeah, that's more or less spot on. I don't think most records are cd to wax though. I'm pretty sure it's the digital master that's used for the cd. Sometimes it's a red book cd, but I'd wager more often than not, it's a digital file, sometimes of a high resolution. But I'd posit it has less to do with the source of the music, and more to do with how it's cut. With the increased demand for vinyl, the best master era and cutters only have so much time, so more novice cutters, get work. You couple that with how many fewer people who cut back in the day are around cutting/training new people to master, you get sub par vinyl.

    I would agree. I think back in the day before Vinyl waned in popularity. CD's and Vinyl were sources from the same master. There was no separate master with a different mastering process just for vinyl. They'd have a high quality master (analog or high quality digital) and it could be downconverted to the various formats. That's why CD and Vinyl sound so similar from the day. You just get that little extra from the analog quality of vinyl, but the mix/mastering is exactly the same, so they sound familiar.

    I don't think it's changed too much. Not that many bands bother to do a separate master for vinyl, thus many modern vinyl suffer from the same loudness issues the cd has, because it's all from the same master.

    That really sad thing is you shouldn't need a separate master for vinyl. How much better would cd's sound if they used the same master that the "audiophile" vinyl releases use... lol.
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    mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,378
    my2hands said:

    Benaroya Hall vinyl goes for $Thousands$ and it's just the cd pressed onto wax. That's it. You are literally paying $1,000 for a $9 cd.

    yet, I am still trying to get one. Ugh.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
    www.cluthelee.com
    www.cluthe.com
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    my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117
    mfc2006 said:

    my2hands said:

    Benaroya Hall vinyl goes for $Thousands$ and it's just the cd pressed onto wax. That's it. You are literally paying $1,000 for a $9 cd.

    yet, I am still trying to get one. Ugh.
    Save your money and buy the reissue whenever it happens. Until then, your cd is the exact same thing
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    mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,378
    my2hands said:

    mfc2006 said:

    my2hands said:

    Benaroya Hall vinyl goes for $Thousands$ and it's just the cd pressed onto wax. That's it. You are literally paying $1,000 for a $9 cd.

    yet, I am still trying to get one. Ugh.
    Save your money and buy the reissue whenever it happens. Until then, your cd is the exact same thing
    that's the thing...I doubt it will be reissued.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
    www.cluthelee.com
    www.cluthe.com
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,908
    It's not as fun playing the CD of Benaroya. It's fun as hell playing the LP.
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    my2handsmy2hands Posts: 17,117

    It's not as fun playing the CD of Benaroya. It's fun as hell playing the LP.

    I love spinning my records... just think it's a shame what PJ fans pay for the vinyl experience

    Go buy Neil Young @ Massey Hall for $30 and you'll think Uncle Neil is in the living room with you
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    mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,378
    my2hands said:

    It's not as fun playing the CD of Benaroya. It's fun as hell playing the LP.

    I love spinning my records... just think it's a shame what PJ fans pay for the vinyl experience

    Go buy Neil Young @ Massey Hall for $30 and you'll think Uncle Neil is in the living room with you
    that's very true...great LP.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
    www.cluthelee.com
    www.cluthe.com
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    SomethingCreativeSomethingCreative Kazoo, MI Posts: 3,346
    my2hands said:

    It's not as fun playing the CD of Benaroya. It's fun as hell playing the LP.

    I love spinning my records... just think it's a shame what PJ fans pay for the vinyl experience

    Go buy Neil Young @ Massey Hall for $30 and you'll think Uncle Neil is in the living room with you
    hmmm I think I saw of copy of this at my local shop guess I know what I'm doing my next day off. Even the CD sounds amazing imo.

    At risk of derailing this thread... For some newer albums I'd recommend Queens of the Stoneage "...Like Clockwork" and My Morning Jacket's "The Waterfall"
    "Well, I think this band is incapable of sucking."
    -my dad after hearing Not for You for the first time on SNL .
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    darthvedderdarthvedder Posts: 2,470
    my2hands said:

    And I agree the PJ vaults are the best sounding vinyl in their catalog

    But they're still sourced from digital, no?
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,908
    edited March 2017
    Yeah, but a digital recording can sound fantastic on vinyl if mastered right.

    I think people get too hung up on the source used for the vinyl. It comes down to the mastering. Granted the source can matter, but the vaults are a perfect example. They are probably sourced from DATs or a digital recording, but they are cut and pressed well and sound fantastic.
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    Lost In OhioLost In Ohio Posts: 6,766
    Digital on vinyl is still digital... basically, it's just a fancy way to play a FLAC-HD or whatever.

    Any analog record is going to have the soundwave pressed right onto the vinyl...something you can't get from digital.
    Presidential Advice from President-Elect Mike McCready: "Are you getting something out of this all encompassing trip?"
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    Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 6,908
    right.
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    check out the Hydrogen Audio Vinyl Myths. Pretty interesting reading.
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    MedozKMedozK Tennessee Posts: 9,209

    Yeah, but a digital recording can sound fantastic on vinyl if mastered right.

    No truer words have ever been spoken.
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    darthvedderdarthvedder Posts: 2,470

    Yeah, but a digital recording can sound fantastic on vinyl if mastered right.

    I think people get too hung up on the source used for the vinyl. It comes down to the mastering. Granted the source can matter, but the vaults are a perfect example. They are probably sourced from DATs or a digital recording, but they are cut and pressed well and sound fantastic.

    I think people get too hung up on thinking vinyl is superior to digital. Digital, like vinyl, comes down to the mastering.
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    Binaural sound pretty damn good on my rig. Glad BoB didn't get his grubby mitts on that one ;)

    pretty sure he mixed it
    looking to hear of the earth
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