Your statistics are way off. While even I tried to make an argument based on dread disease, to think that's the only thing eating up the healthcare dollar is silly. 1 hospital stay is $10K. A pregnancy is $15K for the mom assuming no complications. It's easy to rack up half of the base price you're talking about without even considering maintenance situations like Diabetes, etc.
But, forget all that. If your fuzzy math were right on the total cost of healthcare, there would be no debate. It would all be easily coverable.
I'm not sure where those numbers came from. We did just have a baby 6 months ago, and we saw all the bills before they were paid. And there were some minor complications, mom stayed 3 nights and the baby stayed 4. Total paid to the hospital was less than 6k. Now maybe your numbers are the jacked up rates they present insurance, because on our bill it has a "regular fee" and a "negotiated fee" Yeah, the "regular fee" was listed at like 20k or something ridiculous, but when looking at what the hospital was actually paid through our copay and insurance, the "negotiated fee" was less than 6k. And people without insurance don't get billed that ridiculous first amount, that is just what they send insurance hoping the pay it, and what insurance wants you to see so you think you have these great savings through them. That was part of my point as well, going through the insurance jacks the rates way up. My sister in law was not on health insurance when she had 3 of her 4 kids, paid cash for all of them. And it was in the 4-5k range she ended up paying in cash. If you tell a doctor or hospital that you are uninsured and want the cash price, it is a fraction of what they bill insurance. At least that was the case before having insurance became law.
There is more to having a baby than the hospital stay. That's why your fuzzy math is so far off.
yes, and the 10-12 or so doctor visits we had in those 9 months are not going to total the other 10k you are quoting. A cash, out of pocket doctor visit will usually run $100-$200. I know, I've been there and have friends who are there right now. Not every doctor does not but a lot do. Schedule ahead, tell them you are uninsured, or will be paying out of pocket but want to be seen. They give you the cash price, which is a fraction of what they bill insurance. But if you walk in, pretend you have insurance and just forgot your card, they'll send you a bill for $800 and tell you to forward it to your insurance. Not to mention those uninsured paying out of pocket probably wont be going 10-12 times, we don't really need biweekly ultrasounds in the third trimester. I survived without my mom getting a single one.
Your statistics are way off. While even I tried to make an argument based on dread disease, to think that's the only thing eating up the healthcare dollar is silly. 1 hospital stay is $10K. A pregnancy is $15K for the mom assuming no complications. It's easy to rack up half of the base price you're talking about without even considering maintenance situations like Diabetes, etc.
But, forget all that. If your fuzzy math were right on the total cost of healthcare, there would be no debate. It would all be easily coverable.
I'm not sure where those numbers came from. We did just have a baby 6 months ago, and we saw all the bills before they were paid. And there were some minor complications, mom stayed 3 nights and the baby stayed 4. Total paid to the hospital was less than 6k. Now maybe your numbers are the jacked up rates they present insurance, because on our bill it has a "regular fee" and a "negotiated fee" Yeah, the "regular fee" was listed at like 20k or something ridiculous, but when looking at what the hospital was actually paid through our copay and insurance, the "negotiated fee" was less than 6k. And people without insurance don't get billed that ridiculous first amount, that is just what they send insurance hoping the pay it, and what insurance wants you to see so you think you have these great savings through them. That was part of my point as well, going through the insurance jacks the rates way up. My sister in law was not on health insurance when she had 3 of her 4 kids, paid cash for all of them. And it was in the 4-5k range she ended up paying in cash. If you tell a doctor or hospital that you are uninsured and want the cash price, it is a fraction of what they bill insurance. At least that was the case before having insurance became law.
There is more to having a baby than the hospital stay. That's why your fuzzy math is so far off.
I'm guessing he has a good idea what he paid out of pocket.
He only talks about the hospital, so keep guessing.
Don't forget wall street's role in this. They monetized healthcare and bundled it into a profit making investment, to be traded, bought and sold, encouraging mergers and acquisitions and consolidation. It went from non-profit, service focused to for profit business, return on investment focused.
Your statistics are way off. While even I tried to make an argument based on dread disease, to think that's the only thing eating up the healthcare dollar is silly. 1 hospital stay is $10K. A pregnancy is $15K for the mom assuming no complications. It's easy to rack up half of the base price you're talking about without even considering maintenance situations like Diabetes, etc.
But, forget all that. If your fuzzy math were right on the total cost of healthcare, there would be no debate. It would all be easily coverable.
I'm not sure where those numbers came from. We did just have a baby 6 months ago, and we saw all the bills before they were paid. And there were some minor complications, mom stayed 3 nights and the baby stayed 4. Total paid to the hospital was less than 6k. Now maybe your numbers are the jacked up rates they present insurance, because on our bill it has a "regular fee" and a "negotiated fee" Yeah, the "regular fee" was listed at like 20k or something ridiculous, but when looking at what the hospital was actually paid through our copay and insurance, the "negotiated fee" was less than 6k. And people without insurance don't get billed that ridiculous first amount, that is just what they send insurance hoping the pay it, and what insurance wants you to see so you think you have these great savings through them. That was part of my point as well, going through the insurance jacks the rates way up. My sister in law was not on health insurance when she had 3 of her 4 kids, paid cash for all of them. And it was in the 4-5k range she ended up paying in cash. If you tell a doctor or hospital that you are uninsured and want the cash price, it is a fraction of what they bill insurance. At least that was the case before having insurance became law.
There is more to having a baby than the hospital stay. That's why your fuzzy math is so far off.
I've asked this on the boards before and never really got a straight answer. When you go to the hospital to deliver and stay let's say 3days, how much is the bill you'll receive?
Your statistics are way off. While even I tried to make an argument based on dread disease, to think that's the only thing eating up the healthcare dollar is silly. 1 hospital stay is $10K. A pregnancy is $15K for the mom assuming no complications. It's easy to rack up half of the base price you're talking about without even considering maintenance situations like Diabetes, etc.
But, forget all that. If your fuzzy math were right on the total cost of healthcare, there would be no debate. It would all be easily coverable.
I'm not sure where those numbers came from. We did just have a baby 6 months ago, and we saw all the bills before they were paid. And there were some minor complications, mom stayed 3 nights and the baby stayed 4. Total paid to the hospital was less than 6k. Now maybe your numbers are the jacked up rates they present insurance, because on our bill it has a "regular fee" and a "negotiated fee" Yeah, the "regular fee" was listed at like 20k or something ridiculous, but when looking at what the hospital was actually paid through our copay and insurance, the "negotiated fee" was less than 6k. And people without insurance don't get billed that ridiculous first amount, that is just what they send insurance hoping the pay it, and what insurance wants you to see so you think you have these great savings through them. That was part of my point as well, going through the insurance jacks the rates way up. My sister in law was not on health insurance when she had 3 of her 4 kids, paid cash for all of them. And it was in the 4-5k range she ended up paying in cash. If you tell a doctor or hospital that you are uninsured and want the cash price, it is a fraction of what they bill insurance. At least that was the case before having insurance became law.
There is more to having a baby than the hospital stay. That's why your fuzzy math is so far off.
I've asked this on the boards before and never really got a straight answer. When you go to the hospital to deliver and stay let's say 3days, how much is the bill you'll receive?
We had a baby 6 months ago, mom stayed 3 nights and baby stayed 4, which is longer than typical but nothing major. The bill we got had the "original amount" which totaled about 9 or 10k or so, then it had the "negotiated fee" which is the amount they want you to think you're saving by having your insurance, and that was about half that. Then they say what portion of the negotiated fee they cover and what portion you still owe, which for us we owed about $800. And if you don't have insurance and notify them ahead of time, most places have a cash price that is equal to or less than the "negotiated fee" anyway. But if you just show up and say send me the bill, more than likely you'll get that full bill until you call and complain and they reduce it.
Your statistics are way off. While even I tried to make an argument based on dread disease, to think that's the only thing eating up the healthcare dollar is silly. 1 hospital stay is $10K. A pregnancy is $15K for the mom assuming no complications. It's easy to rack up half of the base price you're talking about without even considering maintenance situations like Diabetes, etc.
But, forget all that. If your fuzzy math were right on the total cost of healthcare, there would be no debate. It would all be easily coverable.
I'm not sure where those numbers came from. We did just have a baby 6 months ago, and we saw all the bills before they were paid. And there were some minor complications, mom stayed 3 nights and the baby stayed 4. Total paid to the hospital was less than 6k. Now maybe your numbers are the jacked up rates they present insurance, because on our bill it has a "regular fee" and a "negotiated fee" Yeah, the "regular fee" was listed at like 20k or something ridiculous, but when looking at what the hospital was actually paid through our copay and insurance, the "negotiated fee" was less than 6k. And people without insurance don't get billed that ridiculous first amount, that is just what they send insurance hoping the pay it, and what insurance wants you to see so you think you have these great savings through them. That was part of my point as well, going through the insurance jacks the rates way up. My sister in law was not on health insurance when she had 3 of her 4 kids, paid cash for all of them. And it was in the 4-5k range she ended up paying in cash. If you tell a doctor or hospital that you are uninsured and want the cash price, it is a fraction of what they bill insurance. At least that was the case before having insurance became law.
There is more to having a baby than the hospital stay. That's why your fuzzy math is so far off.
I've asked this on the boards before and never really got a straight answer. When you go to the hospital to deliver and stay let's say 3days, how much is the bill you'll receive?
We had a baby 6 months ago, mom stayed 3 nights and baby stayed 4, which is longer than typical but nothing major. The bill we got had the "original amount" which totaled about 9 or 10k or so, then it had the "negotiated fee" which is the amount they want you to think you're saving by having your insurance, and that was about half that. Then they say what portion of the negotiated fee they cover and what portion you still owe, which for us we owed about $800. And if you don't have insurance and notify them ahead of time, most places have a cash price that is equal to or less than the "negotiated fee" anyway. But if you just show up and say send me the bill, more than likely you'll get that full bill until you call and complain and they reduce it.
Thank you very much for a real answer. There is a lot of misinformation about American healthcare costs, overnight stays, going in for a broken leg etc. I always thought in the back of my mind either Americans are all millionaires (which I know not to be true) or they just suck it up and pay it off for the rest of their lives. $800 is reasonable, I'm not saying that isn't a lot of money. Up here we don't get a bill no matter how long the stay or whatever the reason for the visit. That's not to say we don't pay for that privilege with our taxes though.
Your statistics are way off. While even I tried to make an argument based on dread disease, to think that's the only thing eating up the healthcare dollar is silly. 1 hospital stay is $10K. A pregnancy is $15K for the mom assuming no complications. It's easy to rack up half of the base price you're talking about without even considering maintenance situations like Diabetes, etc.
But, forget all that. If your fuzzy math were right on the total cost of healthcare, there would be no debate. It would all be easily coverable.
I'm not sure where those numbers came from. We did just have a baby 6 months ago, and we saw all the bills before they were paid. And there were some minor complications, mom stayed 3 nights and the baby stayed 4. Total paid to the hospital was less than 6k. Now maybe your numbers are the jacked up rates they present insurance, because on our bill it has a "regular fee" and a "negotiated fee" Yeah, the "regular fee" was listed at like 20k or something ridiculous, but when looking at what the hospital was actually paid through our copay and insurance, the "negotiated fee" was less than 6k. And people without insurance don't get billed that ridiculous first amount, that is just what they send insurance hoping the pay it, and what insurance wants you to see so you think you have these great savings through them. That was part of my point as well, going through the insurance jacks the rates way up. My sister in law was not on health insurance when she had 3 of her 4 kids, paid cash for all of them. And it was in the 4-5k range she ended up paying in cash. If you tell a doctor or hospital that you are uninsured and want the cash price, it is a fraction of what they bill insurance. At least that was the case before having insurance became law.
There is more to having a baby than the hospital stay. That's why your fuzzy math is so far off.
I've asked this on the boards before and never really got a straight answer. When you go to the hospital to deliver and stay let's say 3days, how much is the bill you'll receive?
We had a baby 6 months ago, mom stayed 3 nights and baby stayed 4, which is longer than typical but nothing major. The bill we got had the "original amount" which totaled about 9 or 10k or so, then it had the "negotiated fee" which is the amount they want you to think you're saving by having your insurance, and that was about half that. Then they say what portion of the negotiated fee they cover and what portion you still owe, which for us we owed about $800. And if you don't have insurance and notify them ahead of time, most places have a cash price that is equal to or less than the "negotiated fee" anyway. But if you just show up and say send me the bill, more than likely you'll get that full bill until you call and complain and they reduce it.
Thank you very much for a real answer. There is a lot of misinformation about American healthcare costs, overnight stays, going in for a broken leg etc. I always thought in the back of my mind either Americans are all millionaires (which I know not to be true) or they just suck it up and pay it off for the rest of their lives. $800 is reasonable, I'm not saying that isn't a lot of money. Up here we don't get a bill no matter how long the stay or whatever the reason for the visit. That's not to say we don't pay for that privilege with our taxes though.
Yes, but that $800 is paid on top of $1600/month of premiums paid by my employer and myself. I just reminder looking at what the hospital was actually paid and thinking it was about 2.5 months of premiums. Another month of premiums would cover the prenatal care. So in 3.5 months of premiums has paid in full my most expensive medical expense to date, most years my medical expenses could be covered in less than a 1 month premium payment. Where does all that money go? Insurer's pocket.
^^^ I haven't been following your story and didn't know about the $1600/m premium. So it is as bad as what most think - Americans pay through the nose for healthcare. That's not right.
^^^ I haven't been following your story and didn't know about the $1600/m premium. So it is as bad as what most think - Americans pay through the nose for healthcare. That's not right.
The flip side is I hear complaints about the taxes up there to cover it. What is the tax?
^^^ I haven't been following your story and didn't know about the $1600/m premium. So it is as bad as what most think - Americans pay through the nose for healthcare. That's not right.
The flip side is I hear complaints about the taxes up there to cover it. What is the tax?
W/ out getting into all the details you are one step from wiki or google https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Canada Canada is the only country with a universal healthcare system that does not include coverage of prescription medication
^^^ I haven't been following your story and didn't know about the $1600/m premium. So it is as bad as what most think - Americans pay through the nose for healthcare. That's not right.
The flip side is I hear complaints about the taxes up there to cover it. What is the tax?
Really?
My circle of friends and I rarely bitch about taxes. We feel- despite cases of misuse every now and then- that we get good value from paying them.
I could look at my gross wage and bitch about not having that gross wage, but then I'd be forgetting about all the services I receive for that 40% income tax.
^^^ I haven't been following your story and didn't know about the $1600/m premium. So it is as bad as what most think - Americans pay through the nose for healthcare. That's not right.
The flip side is I hear complaints about the taxes up there to cover it. What is the tax?
Really?
My circle of friends and I rarely bitch about taxes. We feel- despite cases of misuse every now and then- that we get good value from paying them.
I could look at my gross wage and bitch about not having that gross wage, but then I'd be forgetting about all the services I receive for that 40% income tax.
My highly paid dentist next door neighbour bitches incessantly about taxes. Somehow he seems to forget about the excellent public schools both his kids are in, the Olympic class public swimming pool that both of them train at (with dreams of Olympic medals) for low cost, the nicely kept municipality full of green space, hiking trails, and nicely paved roads, the good police service they got last year when they were fraud victims.......... yeah, he's hard done by, especially considering how many personal expenses he runs through as "business expenses".
I don't bitch about my taxes.
my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
^^^ I haven't been following your story and didn't know about the $1600/m premium. So it is as bad as what most think - Americans pay through the nose for healthcare. That's not right.
The flip side is I hear complaints about the taxes up there to cover it. What is the tax?
Really?
My circle of friends and I rarely bitch about taxes. We feel- despite cases of misuse every now and then- that we get good value from paying them.
I could look at my gross wage and bitch about not having that gross wage, but then I'd be forgetting about all the services I receive for that 40% income tax.
I think this is a big difference in the argument. Other countries acknowledge and/or have awareness of what they're getting for their tax dollars. A lot of Americans want to complain about taxes without recognizing where taxes go. The notion a lot have that private industry can always do better in nearly every situation is also a factor.
I completely agree with that. I personally know several people in their 20s or 30s who are healthy and chose to not have insurance because it is too expensive, and is still cheaper to pay the penalty. Especially in places like LA where they are struggling to find work, stuck with a temp job and paying rent of $1500/month but don't qualify for subsidized insurance because they make 40k a year, but in LA that doesn't go very far. . If you're healthy, you can afford it. And the system is designed to overcharge healthy people, so when they drop out it becomes underfunded.
I completely agree with that. I personally know several people in their 20s or 30s who are healthy and chose to not have insurance because it is too expensive, and is still cheaper to pay the penalty. Especially in places like LA where they are struggling to find work, stuck with a temp job and paying rent of $1500/month but don't qualify for subsidized insurance because they make 40k a year, but in LA that doesn't go very far. . If you're healthy, you can afford it. And the system is designed to overcharge healthy people, so when they drop out it becomes underfunded.
I have to be honest. I didn't want to put President Trump into this conversation in anyway but I have to disclaim that the article was pulled from his twitter page
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone. How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about? I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone. How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about? I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
I can't get any healthcare without presenting my manitoba health card. you have to be a citizen, as far as I know, to get it. I don't know what they'd do if I was dying, but all I know is I have to present that card every single time. even when I'm checking in for an appointment with my GP.
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone. How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about? I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
That's too bad.
I can't be sure, but if some person such as yourself was hurt in, say, a car accident here. We'd give you the best care we could offer and wouldn't worry about the costs.
I believe we offer limited coverage to all- so, in short... life and death or health and limb.
If you came across a car wreck and saw a Mexican family in need of first aid... would you stop and try to assist? If so, why would your level of care stop at the roadside? Wouldn't you want these people to receive medical attention?
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone. How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about? I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
I can't get any healthcare without presenting my manitoba health card. you have to be a citizen, as far as I know, to get it. I don't know what they'd do if I was dying, but all I know is I have to present that card every single time. even when I'm checking in for an appointment with my GP.
Exactly. People would complain ever more about healthcare if we did it the way "other nations do it." That comparison doesn't work for us. We have by some estimates 10% or more of our nation here illegally that would expect to be covered, and anyone who tried to deny them coverage would be considered a racist.
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone. How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about? I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
I can't get any healthcare without presenting my manitoba health card. you have to be a citizen, as far as I know, to get it. I don't know what they'd do if I was dying, but all I know is I have to present that card every single time. even when I'm checking in for an appointment with my GP.
Exactly. People would complain ever more about healthcare if we did it the way "other nations do it." That comparison doesn't work for us. We have by some estimates 10% or more of our nation here illegally that would expect to be covered, and anyone who tried to deny them coverage would be considered a racist.
Got a link to your 10% or more of our population are here illegal? Every problem can be traced back to those illegals.
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone. How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about? I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
That's too bad.
I can't be sure, but if some person such as yourself was hurt in, say, a car accident here. We'd give you the best care we could offer and wouldn't worry about the costs.
I believe we offer limited coverage to all- so, in short... life and death or health and limb.
If you came across a car wreck and saw a Mexican family in need of first aid... would you stop and try to assist? If so, why would your level of care stop at the roadside? Wouldn't you want these people to receive medical attention?
Of course any decent person would stop. And by law hospitals have to treat anyone who comes in. Even someone who comes in and says "I'm here illegally, as soon as you release me I'm moving back to Mexico and I'll never pay you a dime." They still have to treat them. But then they do leave, don't pay, and that cost is passed on to the next person who does pay, or the hospital shuts down if this happens too many times and they go out of business. But my point is this happens much more often here than in most developed countries with a health care system. When someone is here illegally there is no way to track them and force them to pay. They don't have government ID, there's no tax returns to withhold or wages to garnish. And if that did happen to me in Canada there's probably at least a way to track my passport and hassle me until I do pay. Its a much bigger problem here than anywhere else, and that's why copying your system and applying here would just collapse.
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone. How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about? I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
I can't get any healthcare without presenting my manitoba health card. you have to be a citizen, as far as I know, to get it. I don't know what they'd do if I was dying, but all I know is I have to present that card every single time. even when I'm checking in for an appointment with my GP.
Exactly. People would complain ever more about healthcare if we did it the way "other nations do it." That comparison doesn't work for us. We have by some estimates 10% or more of our nation here illegally that would expect to be covered, and anyone who tried to deny them coverage would be considered a racist.
Got a link to your 10% or more of our population are here illegal? Every problem can be traced back to those illegals.
Illegals have a net benefit to the US economy.
google.com
then type in "how many illegals in US."
you will find estimates from 8 million to 40 million. No one really knows because illegals are kinda here illegally.
And I never said illegals were a problem to anything, those are words you added. I simply just said using the healthcare example other countries have simply wouldn't work here. Or actually, I was saying using their example would cause riots because it would not cover the illegals that are also not covered in other countries. So anyone who says "other countries do it" are really just saying "lets not cover illegals" because other countries dont. But that would not work here.
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone. How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about? I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
I can't get any healthcare without presenting my manitoba health card. you have to be a citizen, as far as I know, to get it. I don't know what they'd do if I was dying, but all I know is I have to present that card every single time. even when I'm checking in for an appointment with my GP.
Exactly. People would complain ever more about healthcare if we did it the way "other nations do it." That comparison doesn't work for us. We have by some estimates 10% or more of our nation here illegally that would expect to be covered, and anyone who tried to deny them coverage would be considered a racist.
well 30 claims we'd take care of someone even if they weren't a citizen.
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone. How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about? I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
I can't get any healthcare without presenting my manitoba health card. you have to be a citizen, as far as I know, to get it. I don't know what they'd do if I was dying, but all I know is I have to present that card every single time. even when I'm checking in for an appointment with my GP.
Exactly. People would complain ever more about healthcare if we did it the way "other nations do it." That comparison doesn't work for us. We have by some estimates 10% or more of our nation here illegally that would expect to be covered, and anyone who tried to deny them coverage would be considered a racist.
well 30 claims we'd take care of someone even if they weren't a citizen.
Never had experience in Canada, but if that was the case, why do you have to show ID? Any other country would make you pay, my best judgment says they would too. But even if not, that does not happen there nearly as often as it happens here, so it really isn't a fair comparison.
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone. How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about? I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
That's too bad.
I can't be sure, but if some person such as yourself was hurt in, say, a car accident here. We'd give you the best care we could offer and wouldn't worry about the costs.
I believe we offer limited coverage to all- so, in short... life and death or health and limb.
If you came across a car wreck and saw a Mexican family in need of first aid... would you stop and try to assist? If so, why would your level of care stop at the roadside? Wouldn't you want these people to receive medical attention?
There are way too many visits to the ER that are not appropriate in the US. Way to much gaming of the system for immediate response. Family docs tell patients to go to the ER for anything after hours. Patients go to the ER because they don't want to wait 2 weeks to see their FP doc for the common cold, and want an antibiotic for every time they sneeze or cough. It's ridiculous. Compound that by the fact that some illegal immigrants utilize fake IDs and fake social security numbers when registering at hospitals to get treatment. No one can be denied emergency treatment in hospitals. The problem is that at least 50% of visits are probably not true emergencies. Healthcare in the US is fucked. No one has a right to free medical care in general. True emergency treatment should be covered for everyone regardless of citizen status. But there are too many lawyers and too many businessmen to not allow appropriate health care in this country.
why cant america get health care right??? seriously its not that difficult to provide all your people with healthcare.. other nations do it.
Other nations don't have the immigration problem we have. With that many people here illegally, getting paid illegally and avoiding taxes and many of them sending their money outside of the country to families, it becomes more difficult to provide care to everyone. How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about? I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
That's too bad.
I can't be sure, but if some person such as yourself was hurt in, say, a car accident here. We'd give you the best care we could offer and wouldn't worry about the costs.
I believe we offer limited coverage to all- so, in short... life and death or health and limb.
If you came across a car wreck and saw a Mexican family in need of first aid... would you stop and try to assist? If so, why would your level of care stop at the roadside? Wouldn't you want these people to receive medical attention?
There are way too many visits to the ER that are not appropriate in the US. Way to much gaming of the system for immediate response. Family docs tell patients to go to the ER for anything after hours. Patients go to the ER because they don't want to wait 2 weeks to see their FP doc for the common cold, and want an antibiotic for every time they sneeze or cough. It's ridiculous. Compound that by the fact that some illegal immigrants utilize fake IDs and fake social security numbers when registering at hospitals to get treatment. No one can be denied emergency treatment in hospitals. The problem is that at least 50% of visits are probably not true emergencies. Healthcare in the US is fucked. No one has a right to free medical care in general. True emergency treatment should be covered for everyone regardless of citizen status. But there are too many lawyers and too many businessmen to not allow appropriate health care in this country.
See I disagree. I think everyone should have the right to free medical care. It's the one thing that should be 'free'.
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Not to mention those uninsured paying out of pocket probably wont be going 10-12 times, we don't really need biweekly ultrasounds in the third trimester. I survived without my mom getting a single one.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
When you go to the hospital to deliver and stay let's say 3days, how much is the bill you'll receive?
The bill we got had the "original amount" which totaled about 9 or 10k or so, then it had the "negotiated fee" which is the amount they want you to think you're saving by having your insurance, and that was about half that. Then they say what portion of the negotiated fee they cover and what portion you still owe, which for us we owed about $800.
And if you don't have insurance and notify them ahead of time, most places have a cash price that is equal to or less than the "negotiated fee" anyway. But if you just show up and say send me the bill, more than likely you'll get that full bill until you call and complain and they reduce it.
There is a lot of misinformation about American healthcare costs, overnight stays, going in for a broken leg etc.
I always thought in the back of my mind either Americans are all millionaires (which I know not to be true) or they just suck it up and pay it off for the rest of their lives.
$800 is reasonable, I'm not saying that isn't a lot of money. Up here we don't get a bill no matter how long the stay or whatever the reason for the visit. That's not to say we don't pay for that privilege with our taxes though.
I haven't been following your story and didn't know about the $1600/m premium.
So it is as bad as what most think - Americans pay through the nose for healthcare.
That's not right.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-02-15/aetna-ceo-says-obamacare-in-a-death-spiral-with-sick-customers
Canada is the only country with a universal healthcare system that does not include coverage of prescription medication
My circle of friends and I rarely bitch about taxes. We feel- despite cases of misuse every now and then- that we get good value from paying them.
I could look at my gross wage and bitch about not having that gross wage, but then I'd be forgetting about all the services I receive for that 40% income tax.
I don't bitch about my taxes.
I didn't want to put President Trump into this conversation in anyway but I have to disclaim that the article was pulled from his twitter page
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
How quickly would Trump, or anyone else, be called a racist if they required citizenship to get healthcare, that these other countries do you are talking about?
I cant get coverage in Canada, but you know riots, literally riots and violence, would break out if we had a system that provided care to citizens and not illegals.
Cheers,
HFD
I can't be sure, but if some person such as yourself was hurt in, say, a car accident here. We'd give you the best care we could offer and wouldn't worry about the costs.
I believe we offer limited coverage to all- so, in short... life and death or health and limb.
If you came across a car wreck and saw a Mexican family in need of first aid... would you stop and try to assist? If so, why would your level of care stop at the roadside? Wouldn't you want these people to receive medical attention?
That comparison doesn't work for us. We have by some estimates 10% or more of our nation here illegally that would expect to be covered, and anyone who tried to deny them coverage would be considered a racist.
Illegals have a net benefit to the US economy.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
But then they do leave, don't pay, and that cost is passed on to the next person who does pay, or the hospital shuts down if this happens too many times and they go out of business.
But my point is this happens much more often here than in most developed countries with a health care system. When someone is here illegally there is no way to track them and force them to pay. They don't have government ID, there's no tax returns to withhold or wages to garnish.
And if that did happen to me in Canada there's probably at least a way to track my passport and hassle me until I do pay. Its a much bigger problem here than anywhere else, and that's why copying your system and applying here would just collapse.
then type in "how many illegals in US."
you will find estimates from 8 million to 40 million. No one really knows because illegals are kinda here illegally.
I simply just said using the healthcare example other countries have simply wouldn't work here. Or actually, I was saying using their example would cause riots because it would not cover the illegals that are also not covered in other countries. So anyone who says "other countries do it" are really just saying "lets not cover illegals" because other countries dont. But that would not work here.
Cheers,
HFD